PastorAIO:


No he didn't! Haba!!

Where did you even see divine in the passage?

4everGod:



I answered your own comment so answer mine.

PastorAIO:


What Jesus was sent to do varies from denomination to denomination.

Se you will agree that 'Jesus came to die for our sins'? Now you are not going to say that the apostles too were sent out to die for man's sins. I hope not anyway. Although nothing will surprise me now.

There is nothing in Jesus' commission of the Apostles that suggests that they cannot forgive sins.

PastorAIO:


Actually you've been ducking my questions, so I'm resigned to just following your questioning, otherwise this discussion will be more deplorable than it already is.

4everGod:



Lmao so now its hamlet versus Paul and Peter? Lmao such desperate dishonesty. You are the one who has not been true to yourself right from your first click on the keyboard.

PastorAIO:


Hey, Mr Dunce, stick to the conversation that we are having. That post was for Truthislight. I hope he has a better understanding of what an analogy is than you do.

all you can do is shout 'dishonesty' this and that. You cannot even break down an argument. then you will claim that you have debunked what you petty brain cannot even grasp.

4everGod:



Massive straw grabbing in play

Young man Jesus was sent to RECONCILE MAN TO GOD BY BEING THE SIN OFFERING FOR MAN. Key word there is RECONCILE...

Now can you tell me what it means to Reconcile?

PastorAIO:


When you are ready to discuss whether the apostles had authority to forgive sins let me know.

4everGod:



Cop out! What do you think i am discussing? I am discussing exactly what you want. Why this mischief na?

Answer my question oga and stop dodging it.

If God sent Jesus to reconcile man to himself and Jesus now sent the disciples to do the same thing God sent him to do WHAT DOES RECONCILE MEAN?

PastorAIO:
reconcile
ˈrɛk(ə)nsʌɪl/
verb
verb: reconcile; 3rd person present: reconciles; past tense: reconciled; past participle: reconciled; gerund or present participle: reconciling

1.
restore friendly relations between.
"the king and the archbishop were publicly reconciled"
settle (a quarrel).
"advice on how to reconcile the conflict"
synonyms: reunite, bring (back) together (again), restore friendly relations between, restore harmony between, make peace between, resolve differences between, bring to terms; More
pacify, appease, placate, propitiate, mollify;
rareconciliate
"the news reconciled us"
settle, resolve, patch up, sort out, smooth over, iron out, put to rights, mend, remedy, heal, cure, rectify
"the quarrel was reconciled"
antonyms: estrange, alienate
make or show to be compatible.
"the agreement had to be reconciled with the city's new international relations policy"
synonyms: make compatible, harmonize, square, make harmonious, synthesize, make congruent, cause to be in agreement, cause to sit happily/easily with; More
adjust, balance, attune;
raresyncretize
"it wasn't easy trying to reconcile his religious beliefs with his career"
make someone accept (a disagreeable or unwelcome thing).
"he was reconciled to leaving"
synonyms: accept, come to accept, resign oneself to, come to terms with, learn to live with, get used to, make the best of, submit to, accommodate oneself to, adjust oneself to, become accustomed to, acclimatize oneself to; More
grin and bear it;
informallike it or lump it
"the creditors had to reconcile themselves to drastic losses of income and capital"
2.
make (one account) consistent with another, especially by allowing for transactions begun but not yet completed.

4everGod:



Ephesians 2:10-16New King James Version (NKJV)

10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
11 Therefore remember that you, once Gentiles in the flesh—who are called Uncircumcision by what is called the Circumcision made in the flesh by hands— 12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.

14 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.


Ephesians 2 from verse 10 clearly gives us the assignment of Christ which is to make peace between us and God aka RECONCILE.

Can 2 people who were once enemies be friends when one is still refusing to make peace? Can you answer please.

PastorAIO:


No, peace must first be made. Please continue.

I'm waiting for the part where it amounts to the apostles being incapable of forgiving sins.

4everGod:


So we agree that Jesus was sent to make peace between man and God right and He in turn now sent his disciples to go and do the same thing? So what was it that made us an enemy to God in the first place that Jesus came to deal with? Was it not Sin that separated us from God? Yes or No?

PastorAIO:


And so by forgiving the Sin the apostles reconcile men to God.

But that doesn't mean that they can't forgive sins.

Why are you running faster than your legs can carry you na?

Was it not Sin that separated us from God? Yes or No?

4everGod:


Why are you running faster than your legs can carry you na?

Was it not Sin that separated us from God? Yes or No?

PastorAIO:


For the sake of getting to your point, Yes it is sin.

4everGod:


Good!

Now that we have agreed that Jesus came to RECONCILE SINFUL MAN TO GOD and we have also agreed that RECONCILIATION or PEACE can only be complete when both parties agree to being at peace. So what then is the principle of reconciliation between man and God?

Is man to just come to God or there is a principle to him coming to God? If you know the Principle can you share it with me please...

Feel free to consult 1st John 1: 9

PastorAIO:


If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1john 1.9

Please continue, but get to the point quick abeg.

PastorAIO:


If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1john 1.9

Please continue, but get to the point quick abeg.

4everGod:


[size=0pt]
This is bible study so do not be in a hurry na afterall you were not in a hurry when you were yapping earlier abi?

Now if according to 1st John 1: 9

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

And we have agreed that God sent Jesus to reconcile sinful man to God and He in turn sent his disciples to continue the ministry of reconciliation which according to 2nd Corinthians 5: 17-18 says

17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
18 Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation.

And when they go and preach Jesus those who receive the gospel are to accept Jesus as their Lord and savior by doing what? They are to ask God for mercy from their sins and forsake them and then God would forgive them according to 1st John 1:9 and then the disciples can ASSURE them that their sins are forgiven not as a new thing but as a confirmation of God ALREADY forgiving them for their repentance.

Without Repentance their can be no forgiveness!

This is the order you PastorAIO must remember from today onwards

REPENTANCE
GOD FORGIVES YOU
MAN CONFIRMS IT AS AN ASSURANCE

NO MAN CAN FORGIVE YOU YOUR SINS AGAINST GOD WHEN YOU ARE YET IN SIN. God first forgives you ON THE SPOT the moment you confess and forsake your sin and then the disciples can assure you of your SALVATION or FORGIVENESS.

This is salvation 101. I decided to simplify the process of explanation so even you would stop arguing and stop your by fire by force desire to see scripture in a dishonest way. If after this simplified breakdown you still wish to argue then everyone would see your dishonesty in living colour.

Note Acts 2: 37-38

37 When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?

38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit[/size].

NO MAN CAN FORGIVE YOU YOUR SINS AGAINST GOD WHEN YOU ARE YET IN SIN. God first forgives you ON THE SPOT the moment you confess and forsake your sin and then the disciples can assure you of your SALVATION or FORGIVENESS.

PastorAIO:

---

[font=Lucida Sans Unicode][/font]

Thank you.



What if the apostle decides to withhold forgiveness?


If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”
John 20

4everGod:




Now you are splitting it to WITHHOLDING FORGIVENESS. Okay o

The simplest thing for you to have done would have been to reverse all i just broke down to you using your new argument and you would still get the same answer as the above.

NO MAN CAN WITHHOLD FORGIVENESS WHEN GOD HAS ALREADY FORGIVEN. Any man who does that is not of God

Jesus always taught on forgiveness. He never taught on withholding forgiveness. So is a Child of God or a man of God or an apostle then permitted to withhold forgiveness when the one who sent him on the assignment has already forgiven and they know that God has forgiven especially since the principles for RECONCILIATION have been met? Can i get a Yes or No answer from you?

PastorAIO:


You make it sound like it is a crime to dissect or split a sentence. Why do you think that you are so apprehensive about a detailed investigation?

Please make it clear for me. Is it possible for Jesus' apostles to withhold forgiveness or not? simple question.

4everGod:
[/b]

Lmao at detailed investigation. An investigation you wish to first of all plant your own incriminating evidence before any investigation is carried out.






Please Mr Dundee United Can a messenger withhold something His boss has already released?

PastorAIO:


So why did Jesus say if they withhold it is withheld. Or is there another meaning to 'withhold' that we don't know.

I am presuming, since you fail miserably at answering direct questions, that you believe that apostles cannot withhold forgiveness.

4everGod:
The same Peter who was among those you said Jesus categorically commanded to go and forgive sins yet his own comment denies your dishonest scriptural position. [/b]

PastorAIO:


Please you'll have to show me where I said so. I was quoting John's gospel. That is where I read it. Abi is John's gospel 'vomit' from a 'spirit of deception'?

Since you have given yourself the position of teacher. Oya teach. I asked a simple straightforward question.


Why did Jesus Say that if they withhold forgiveness then the forgiveness is withheld?

4everGod:
FOR THE THIRD TIME, THREAD CLOSED!

PastorAIO:




First point. I don't think Peter wrote that letter called 2Peter. That is not really important but if you want to go into it as a separate issue then start by reading the whole of that chapter that you quoted. It is basically about the return of Jesus. Then return to verse 3 and read:

scoffers will come in the last days with scoffing, following their own sinful desires. 4 They will say, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation.”



Then ask yourself who were these fathers that had fallen asleep. remember that Peter died in 64AD about 30 years after christ. St. James the head of the church in Jerusalem is said to have died in 62AD. Who were the fathers that had died leaving the christians open to mockery that instead of Jesus returning things are continuing as normal and people are dying off.


But to continue with the main point:

'According to the wisdom given to him' has nothing to do with divine inspiration. Have you too not been given wisdom? Does everybody not act according to the wisdom that is given to them?

Paul wrote letters according to his own understanding (according to the wisdom given to him).