The attack of Westminster. #Icondemterrorism

# How long will Muslim’s scholars keep on “pleading” to the world that Islam is not a religion of terrorism while a fraction of its follower continue to perpetrate the act of terror? The high time we take the horn by the bull the better.

# In my view, the whole concept of "jihad" in Islam needs to be reviewed. At the moment, we Muslims merely engage in
denialism. After every terrorist attack, we say: "It has
nothing to do with Islam". Then, we wait for the next Muslim fanatic to kill more people.

The concept of Jihad

The concept of jihad, as defined in the Sunni books of
jurisprudence - whether Salafi or Ash'ari - is EXACTLY what
ISIS, al-Qaeda, Boko Haram, al-Shabbab and others are
practising. If "Islam" is what these ancient scholars have
explained in their books, then these terror attacks are Islam.

We cannot keep denying it, while retaining those terror
manuals as our sources of law and jurisprudence.

# Please note this is not sectarianism as some might want to (and will surely) perceive it. Being a Shia Muslim, if such terror concept is find in "my fiqh book", I will never hesitate to condemn it.

The US isn't in Syria to defeat ISIS, they are there to install a puppet government set up the IMF and rape the resources from the country and people. Same thing they have done in every country they spread "freedom" to (libya, afghanistan, iraq, palestine, yemen). Team America the real world terrorist need to quit spreading their IslamoPhobia and fix thier own racist imbred shit hole of a country.

I really don't give a fig leaf about UK or other incidents. I really have to disagree with OP somewhat. These are individual doing their thing. Most of them have no idea of Islamic figh.

Second, these type of recent attack in UK is no different from other attacks by non-muslims. Few days ago in New York City, a white guy traveled from another state to new York to stab a black man to death. If a muslim did the same it would be tagged "act of terrorism". Although this white dude did say his motive behind the attack TO KILL BLACK PEOPLE.

And don't forget 2013 massacre of 32 people in Newton elementary school in the state of Connecticut where majority of the victims were children. Killer was a boy with military weapons. No act of terrorism was mentioned.

By official definition of terror!sm by FB! , it has no religious connotations needless to say Islamic religion. (See attachment)


In that case whatever motives of any individual Muslim has for attacking, the fellow should be treated accordingly even if he utters Islamic phrases such as saying "Allah Akbar". The reason for this is that whatever is written in Sunni theology is solely for the Islamic authorities not individual or group of individuals. Such individual or group is simply a criminal.

For instance it is written in Nigeria Constitution to penalize thieves but today, every Tom, Dick, Harry kills or set thieves on fire without due process. Same applies to a lone wolf who takes it upon himself to attack consulate or none Muslims. Islam has its way of dealing with the situation. So individual who chooses to attack people does that out of his own peril.


I'm not gonna argue about Sunni figh whether it is to be reviewed. The fuqaha wrote things based on situations in their time. What they wrote are not all supported by Quran. So if individual muslim who cites from the book to commit atrocities for their selfish interest should simply be dealt with. Besides, those people themselves have committed terror!sm during their colonialism. Just because we were not there to witness that doesn't mean it has to be overlooked. I'm sure those African slaves felt terrorized by the British. If they lived today they would tell you more.

It is ALL politics. But unfortunately for us in Islam, there is no "separation of mosque and state"

See why you shouldn't worry yourself much about media silly noise.

^^^
# Yoruba used to say, " isó kekere oun ba idi je"

Exactly what you are doing is denial. That's what we keep on doing. Blaming others, looking for justifications, running away from blames etc. Kindly bring justifications for BOKO Haram in Nigeria too. Some will even argue they are not Muslims, that they are CIA or FBI trained personale. Oh! Perhaps there stats that "prove" ethnic killings, accidents etc are more than BOKO killings.

Brother I have nothing to do with all those excuses and stats. It rings a loudest bell when the word "Islam" is label to terrorism and violence. We can never put end to this while those manuals continue to exist.

# The fact remains that Muslims have ancient rulings that support terrorism, violence, hatred, child marriage, slavery, etc. Why condemning those that follow these texts by letter when you still have them (the texts) in black and white, and revered?


Let me give you a tip from the giant iceberg. One below, the other attached screenshot:

Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah again says in his Majmū’ al-Fatāwā, vol. 2, p. 9 (1386 edition):

"All Muslims are unanimous on the fact that he (the Muslim) must pray Ẓuhr and ‘Aṣr during daytime and al-Fajr before sunrise. He must not abandon that because of any occupation or fun or any of the other activities. The master cannot forbid his slave, nor can the employer forbid his employee, from performing ṣalāt at its time. Whoever delays it because of any occupation, or any hunting, or any service to the teacher, or any other reason, till the sun sets, it is obligatory to punish him. In fact, it is obligatory to kill him, according to the majority of the scholars, after he has been asked to repent. If he repents and takes an undertaking to pray at the right time, he must be bound by that. But, if he says “I will not pray until after sunset” because of he is busy at work, or hunting or for any other reason, he should be killed.

http://islamport.com/d/3/tym/1/16/85.html

# I bet you do not want to read fiqh rulings on Jihad.

^^^

You see, Ibn Tayimmiyah (ra) that you quoted obviously is not talking about average people. This is authority he's talking about. You can not use that for terrorism reference. Ibn Tayimmiyah was a public figure, authority. The same way if you open constitution of a country, school, organization, they have set of rules. For instance, it is part of US constitution (but not enforced) that you can not grow plants (vegetables) in your backyard. This of course is not known to many just like quotation you brought up there about Sheikh ul Islam (ra). So does that mean whoever is aware of the law should go about beating up those who plant vegetables in their yard?.

If any individual does that, he is simply a criminal himself. Yet, the ruling is printed in black and white even though it is not enforced just like killing whoever deliberately ignore salat should be killed. Who enforces that today?.

You can not deny those crazy groups have links with govt official. It is as clear as daylight. even if you dont believe that, how about 2014 when John McCain was seen taking selfie with now renounce terrorist baghdad!?. If that doesnt ring bell, i dont know what will. The problem i have however is our brothers here defending their evil operation in Syria as lfleak rightly said up there.

Far as i am concerned, i am not worried about anything. I dont care what media says. I know there are problematic ahadith but we also have ahadith that prophesied current events. That's why i dont stress myself.

^^^

# Whether it is authority or individual to carry it out, there is absolutely no justification for such violent rulings and its likes.

Call for the Jews to be Killed
https://sputniknews.com/art_living/201703251051946323-montreal-mosque-hate-speech-sermon/

^^Once such such action/call is carried out, then we start the usual mantra, "it has nothing to do with Islam".
Instead of fiercely confronting these terror-minded
"scholars", they wait until their teachings manifest in flesh
and blood.

Should an apostate be Killed?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhW50uM50UM

All Muslims are potential terrorist. Suicide bombers.

HenryDion:
All Muslims are potential terrorist. Suicide bombers.

Bcus of fellows like you is the reason i dont support Op's approach bcus y'all want to take advantage instead of using your God-given intellect to engage in discussion

In my opinion, I think the Muslims major problem is our accepting ourselves to be bullied by accusations of terrorism, barbarism etc.
Should a Muslim be angry when some nuts commits crimes and try to justify it using Islam? Yes.
Do Muslims owe any one an apology? Hell no.
Why don't we ask americans to apologise for bush and co's attrocities and please don't tell me that its just trading in blame games.
The only thing a Muslim owes anyone is to be true to them to the best of your ability, be nice, encourage good and forbid evil and explain things to anyone who asks humbly.
But its not a Muslims responsibility to apologies for a crime he didn't commit.
The accusations and label of extremists and co are test and trial of Allah to seperate true believers from followers or escorters.
Some muslims have allow some of this things to affect them psycologically stopping them from living their lives.
The truth is that Islam will come out of this stronger, but whether you and I will get stronger or fall through is what we don't know.

^

Agree to that

Islam and British value: Do we need a British Islam
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bie0-VdBCtA

LONDON TERROR ATTACK
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40148737

Radwan Hamoud writes:

The western governments have to choose between safety and security on the one hand and Money

They can't have both from the Middle East.

The Wahhabis give them money but also terrorism.

The Shia give them peace but no money.

Trump labeled Wahhabi Saudi as the number sponsor of terror before the election in the USA. After the election, Saudi gave him hundreds of billions of dollars. Trump forgot his words and instead directed his attacks at Shia Iran, the arch rival of the Wahhabi Saudi monarchy.

When the west choose to return the oil fields in Saudi to their owners, Wahhabism will become impoverished.

The eastern province in Saudi Arabia is the "Niger delta" of Arabia. It is predominantly Shia. It is Shia land and oil rich. It was a separate political and geographic entity along with Bahrain, historically. Today the al saud Wahhabi family control that area and through the swords conquered it and made it part of their kingdom.

The west know that after the Islamic Revolution in Shia Iran, there was nothing for them to exploit and steal. Their puppet monarchy was removed by Shia clerics who led the masses. If the same Shia get hold of their destiny and have their land in Arabia, no more free cake for them.

So the western governments should choose between exploitation of Arabia and security at home. There's no way that the petrodollars of the Saudi kingdom, no matter how subservient the Wahhabi monarchy is to the west, doesn't trickle down to those hardliners in the west and funding Wahhabi AKA Salafist mosques and madrasahs in western capitals which are the universities from which Wahhabi terrorists of ISIS and co. graduate. Even the western governments have used these bloodsuckers in Afghanistan, Libya and Syria as proxies against their opposition.

It is time for western government to stop being Wahhabi agents in the killing of western citizens and sacrificing the lives of their citizens because of petrodollars or oil.

@tintingz, Empiree

Here's Saudi paid cleric in their Tarawih raining curses upon the Muslim shia, Christian and Jews, and at the same time praying for their sponsored ISIS whom they tagged
"mujahideen".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=BKmTO9hswZI


https://www.facebook.com/NotoWahabism/videos/1238406879621225/

AlBaqir:
@tintingz, Empiree

Here's Saudi paid cleric in their Tarawih raining curses upon the Muslim shia, Christian and Jews, and at the same time praying for their sponsored ISIS whom they tagged
"mujahideen".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=BKmTO9hswZI


https://www.facebook.com/NotoWahabism/videos/1238406879621225/

Throughout the last 1400 years, these fossils have not
brought a single positive thing to humanity.

They are zero in science and technology. They are zero in human rights.

They are zero in rational thinking and logic. They are zero in
philosophy.

They are zero in humanistic principles (i.e. love, compassion and kindness for all good human beings,
irrespective of colour, race or religion).


But, they score 100% in hate speech. They score 100% in
terrorist attacks. They score 100% in cave thinking. They
score 100% in child marriage. They score 100% in
population pollution. They score 100% in the destruction of
lives, homes and nations. They score 100% in the promotion of ignorance and illiteracy.
Surely, they have nothing useful to offer humanity.

Unfortunately, their foot soldiers are equally doing their dirty jobs here at home, and even on NL.

AlBaqir:



Throughout the last 1400 years, these fossils have not
brought a single positive thing to humanity.

They are zero in science and technology. They are zero in human rights.

They are zero in rational thinking and logic. They are zero in
philosophy.

They are zero in humanistic principles (i.e. love, compassion and kindness for all good human beings,
irrespective of colour, race or religion).


But, they score 100% in hate speech. They score 100% in
terrorist attacks. They score 100% in cave thinking. They
score 100% in child marriage. They score 100% in
population pollution. They score 100% in the destruction of
lives, homes and nations. They score 100% in the promotion of ignorance and illiteracy.
Surely, they have nothing useful to offer humanity.

Unfortunately, their foot soldiers are equally doing their dirty jobs here at home, and even on NL.

Lol foot soldiers on NL

Terrorist attack in Tehran, Iran

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-40184641


# A six hours gun fight

DAESH has claimed responsibility of the attack.

It was planned to be a coordinated successive operations but all their efforts were timely averted. Security forces have been able to calm the situation.

A suicide bomber blew himself up as he was gunned downed. Four gunmen at the Iranian parliament were also killed. Handful were apprehended and being interrogated.

A security guard was also killed in the gun exchange while dozens were injured.

12 people have been reportedly killed in all.

Read more:
http://presstv.ir/Detail/2017/06/07/524450/Iran-Parliament/

Albaqir, good job.

Empiree those serial killer you mentioned didn't state their motive for their evil action while some is not related to religious, when it comes to Muslim terrorists they always made it known they are fighting for Allah.

When it comes to religious terrorism, Muslims are number one then Christians. No need for sugar coating

Empiree:
Bcus of fellows like you is the reason i dont support Op's approach bcus y'all want to take advantage instead of using your God-given intellect to engage in discussion

No. All Muslims are not terrorists. But note the word "potential". In as much as they all reverend those hadith's while some of you are isis apologists, they are all potential terrorists because its a matter of time before any one of you Muslims would be overzealous or brainwashed to execute the hadiths of killing infidel as we see it unfold day to day.

tintingz:
Alba.qir, good job.

Empiree those [b]serial killer[b] you mentioned didn't state [b]their motive[b] for their evil action while some is not related to religious, when it comes to Muslim terrorists they always made it known they are fighting for Allah.

When it comes to religious terrorism, Muslims are number one then Christians. No need for sugar coating

this is the problem. Their motives?. Did you read DEFINITION of terrorism up there by the authority?. Is chanting 'Allah' while committing this terrible act of terrorism in the definition?. There is no religious connotations in the definition.

Empiree:
this is the problem. Their motives?. Did you read DEFINITION of terrorism up there by the authority?. Is chanting 'Allah' while committing this terrible act of terrorism in the definition?. There is no religious connotations in the definition.

That is why I used "religious terrorism". People kill for religious cause.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_terrorism

Some terrorism action are act of treason, some for revenge, avenge

tintingz:


When it comes to religious terrorism, Muslims are number one then Christians. No need for sugar coating

This is the bitter truth, unless we want to continue lying to ourselves.

All these everyday killings and bombings are obvious pointer to that.

I have tried to understand why anyone would want to give Islam what is not part of it. Islam is free from terrorism, Islam a religion prescribed by Allah (SWT) and brought by his beloved prophet (SAW) has nothing to do with terrorism!

It is even more disheartening that a supposed Muslim scholar in the picture below, out of whatever reason decided to go low even when a non-Muslim said the truth! The person simply said Islam does not teach murder, instead of the supposed Imam to corroborate this, he went on to not only contradict this truth, he even further provided evidence to buttress his fallacy. In other words, he is simply telling this non-Muslim lady and any other reader that, Islam indeed teaches murder, and preaches terrorism. What kind of Islamic scholar does that?!

The Prophet (SAW) had already talked about extremists so it is nothing new,

Anas ibn Malik reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “There will be division and sectarianism in my nation and a people (the Kharijites) will come with beautiful words and evil deeds. They will recite the Quran but it will not pass beyond their throats. They will leave the religion as an arrow leaves its target and they will not return to it as the arrow does not return to its bow. They are the worst of the creation. Blessed are those who fight them and are killed by them. They call to the Book of Allah but they have nothing to do with it. Whoever fights them is better to Allah than them.”

Source: Sunan Abī Dāwūd 4765, Grade: Sahih (authentic) according to Al-Albani

Anyone can claim anything, because some group of people claim they are fighting for Allah does not make their statement true, and does not mean Islam preaches what they do!

^^^

# Tawhidi speaks a lot of rubbish to be recognised in Australia. He has been taken the Australian for a ride for long long time and I begin to wonder the responsibility of Australian Muslim community (especially the shia community there) in tackling him.


# He brought out a silly argument (which I highlighted in another thread), accusing the UK Imams who refused to bury the terrorists involved in the London bridge. He insinuated that they have no basis not to bury them in an Islamic rites/manners that only martyrs are left buried without "Islamic rites". He " exposed" this in a very negative manner. A friend of mine and I personally challenged his submission but he ended deleted our comments on his fb page.

# If Islam is accused, the end result and stigmatisation will not discriminate Sunni from Shia or vice versa.


# No doubt there are texts in "Islamic" documents that preaches terror, hatred and war but obviously Islam is far away from such text. Those texts are what we should expose and distance Islam far away from. Such texts are obviously aiding the breeding of terrorism.

Tawhidi, having closely studied Sunni jurisprudence, is right on this:

SAUDI FOOTBALL TEAM REFUSED TO MOURN LONDON TERROR VICTIM BECAUSE THEY WERE "KUFFAR"

https://www.naija.ng/2646-read-heartbreaking-reason-saudi-arabian-team-refused-mourn-terror-victims.html

AlBaqir:
Tawhidi, having closely studied Sunni jurisprudence, is right on this:

SAUDI FOOTBALL TEAM REFUSED TO MOURN LONDON TERROR VICTIM BECAUSE THEY WERE "KUFFAR"

https://www.naija.ng/2646-read-heartbreaking-reason-saudi-arabian-team-refused-mourn-terror-victims.html

# Just a minute silence on standing! These wahabi breed refused.


Please compare that wahabi ideology ^^ with this hadith below:



Narrated `Abdur Rahman bin Abi Laila:

Sahl bin Hunaif and Qais bin Sa`d were sitting in the city of Al-Qadisiya. A funeral procession passed in front of them
and they stood up. They were told that funeral procession was of one of the inhabitants of the land i.e. of a non-
believer, under the protection of Muslims.

They said, "A funeral procession passed in front of the Prophet (s) and he stood up. When he was told that
it was the coffin of a Jew, he said, " Is it not a living being (soul)?"


Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 1312, 1313

In-book reference : Book 23, Hadith 71

USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 2, Book 23, Hadith 399

https://sunnah.com/bukhari/23

^^^^

To me, it seems most Arabs are kind of joining TRIBALISM with Islam.
Some of them hate the Jews in and out even outside Islam...

What do I know..??