MuttleyLaff:
Above already responded to

Yes the name was used from Enosh's time
but you've still got the wrong end of the stick, again, with Genesis 4:26b
Genesis 4:26b is not interpreted as "at the time of Enosh was when people began to call on the name Yahweh
Genesis 4:26b is the crescendo of man's misuse/abuse of Yahweh's name and irreverent behaviour that culminated in Genesis 6:1-7

Whilst you've noticed that Genesis 4:26b is a brand new sentence,
why not consider checking what word is mistranslated as "began" in it

I think by now, the realisation has dawned on you that Genesis DOESN'T SAY they called on the name of the lord
"called on the name of the Lord" is a mistranslation of Genesis 4:26b

As long as the name was in use then contradicting the claim of exodus then my point stands.

PastorAIO:
As long as the name was in use then contradicting the claim of exodus then my point stands

Abram said to the king of Sodom,
"I have lifted up my hand to Yahweh, God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth,
- Genesis 14:22

¹After this presentation to Israel’s leaders, Moses and Aaron went and spoke to Pharaoh.
They told him, “This is what Yahweh, the God of Israel, says:
Let my people go so they may hold a festival in My honor in the wilderness.”
²“Is that so?” retorted Pharaoh.
“And who is Yahweh? Why should I listen to him and let Israel go?
I don’t know Yahweh, and I will not let Israel go.”
- Exodus 5:1-2

I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai (i.e. God Almighty)
but by my name, Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them
- Exodus 6:3

The name "was in use" or the name being in use, is quite different to knowing by experience what the name is about

Pharaoh, the Israelites and neighbouring countries, got to know and see the manifestations of the name Yahweh

Yahweh, aka YHWH, aka I AM, WHO I AM, aka etcetera revealed to Pharaoh, the Israelites and neighbouring countries by being Yahweh; I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE

The practical exhibition and performance revealed the intrinsic meaning of Yahweh to Pharaoh, the Egyptians, the Israelites and neighbouring countries

Exodus 6:3, is saying, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob know, have seen and experienced Me, as El-Shaddai (i.e. God Almighty)
but they never had the opportunity to demonstrably see, know or experience Me, as Yahweh

Inspite of the earlier explaination, you're still bent on allowing a false sense of triumphalism to creep into your mind
and standing your point on a wobbly stool that falsely looks normal

You are a very confused person.

So the full meaning of Yahweh is revealed by sending plagues to egypt? But though they were calling yahwehs name before they didn't know Yahweh because they were unaware of his full genocidal capabilities, even though he wiped out the earth with a flood.

MuttleyLaff:
Abram said to the king of Sodom,
"I have lifted up my hand to Yahweh, God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth,
- Genesis 14:22

¹After this presentation to Israel’s leaders, Moses and Aaron went and spoke to Pharaoh.
They told him, “This is what Yahweh, the God of Israel, says:
Let my people go so they may hold a festival in My honor in the wilderness.”
²“Is that so?” retorted Pharaoh.
“And who is Yahweh? Why should I listen to him and let Israel go?
I don’t know Yahweh, and I will not let Israel go.”
- Exodus 5:1-2

I appeared to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob as El-Shaddai (i.e. God Almighty)
but by my name, Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them
- Exodus 6:3

The name "was in use" or the name being in use, is quite different to knowing by experience what the name is about

Pharaoh, the Israelites and neighbouring countries, got to know and see the manifestations of the name Yahweh

Yahweh, aka YHWH, aka I AM, WHO I AM, aka etcetera revealed to Pharaoh, the Israelites and neighbouring countries by being Yahweh; I WILL BE THAT I WILL BE

The practical exhibition and performance revealed the intrinsic meaning of Yahweh to Pharaoh, the Egyptians, the Israelites and neighbouring countries

Exodus 6:3, is saying, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob know, have seen and experienced Me, as El-Shaddai (i.e. God Almighty)
but they never had the opportunity to demonstrably see, know or experience Me, as Yahweh

Inspite of the earlier explaination, you're still bent on allowing a false sense of triumphalism to creep into your mind
and standing your point on a wobbly stool that falsely looks normal

PastorAIO:
You are a very confused person

You will always say someone is a very confused person,
if they're not giving you the answers you want to hear
but since you first brought it up, thinking of it, it's really you, who is more confused than a chameleon in a bag of skittles
and all because you are not paying attention and giving careful consideration to the post's each and every word

Just because you know my name doesn't mean you know me
Likewise, just because certain patriachs used and know Yahweh's name, doesnt mean they know Yahweh

You've miscontrued all my honest and well-intended response(s)
Nothing spoilt because everything will make perfect sense, when, later you understand what does Yahweh mean
So for now, laugh at the confusion

PastorAIO:
So the full meaning of Yahweh is revealed by sending plagues to egypt?

SMH, the problem is, you're clutching on to "So the full meaning of Yahweh is revealed by sending plagues to egypt?"
but failing to lay hold of the underlined in: "by my name, Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them"

PastorAIO:
But though they were calling yahwehs name before they didn't know Yahweh

Where are you getting "they didn't know Yahweh" from?

The original text says: "by my name, Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them"
"not I did reveal" are the keywords in that original text statement

You have heard people say:
"Maa fi han ẹ, nkan ti orukọ mi jẹ" or "Orukọ nro"

meaning when loosely translated:
"I will show you or reveal to you why I am called by my name" or "aptly named, he's living up to the name"

PastorAIO:
because they were unaware of his full genocidal capabilities

¹³Then the Lord said to Abram, “You can be sure that your descendants will be strangers in a foreign land,
where they will be oppressed as slaves for 400 years.
¹⁴But I will punish the nation that enslaves them, and in the end they will come away with great wealth.
1⁵(As for you, you will die in peace and be buried at a ripe old age.)
¹⁶After four generations your descendants will return here to this land,
for the sins of the Amorites do not yet warrant their destruction.”
(i.e. for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure)
- Genesis 15:13-16

Your "his full genocidal capabilities" outburst, as you can see in Genesis 15:13-16 above, was God's judgement on them for their wickedness

PastorAIO:
even though he wiped out the earth with a flood

Yep, even though He wiped out the earth with a flood in His capacity
He wiped out the earth with a flood, in His capacity as El-Shaddai (i.e. in His capacity as God Almighty) and not as Yahweh
but now, God, in effect, is telling Moses, they dont call Me Yahweh for nothing
and that He wants to do justice to the name.
God wants to live up to his Yahweh name
He is going to meet the expectations that the Yahweh name suggests and commands
You may call it nominative determinism, if you wish

I know quite a few, for a start, know sarassin and know what sarassin's ID or name means
I know you too, know what your Nairaland ID handle or name is
but what does the PastorAIO ID name mean and do you live up to it?

.

PastorAIO:


Do you know what a contradiction is?

Look at these 2 statements:

A: my name is Yahweh, nobody knew this before

B: thousands of years before A people began to call on the name Yahweh.

Unless people can call on yahwehs name and yet not be aware of the name at the same time THEN. The two statements are contradictions.


And now as for the redundancy of the bible .... I would not go so far as to make it redundant but I set out my objective a while.

1)This notion that the Bible is some special inspiration given by God and esteemed above every other inspiration in existence is crap.

I can get more spiritual edification from observing a painting or listening to a song than any biblical passage can offer.

2). I think it is utterly stupid to claim that the Truth, ultimate Truth, is embedded within a Text.

3) The elevation of the bible to some sort of 'constitution' of Christianity is effected purposely to detract away from the Authority of the church so the Protestant reformation can take place.

4) the substitution of reading the bible as the central Christian practice instead of the actual practice of its ethical and sacramental tenets is a cause of much irreligious activities.

5) I hate the spread of mendacity and extolling the bible as an historical and scientifically factual book is the highest peak of mendacity.


There's more. It let's digest that one first.

You are entitled to your personal opinion.

PastorAIO:


Sir, I'm a bit fascinated by your use of terms here. I've never heard such a metaphor as "prism sight". I spent a while trying to make sense of it. I imagine it's supposed to. E derogatory but I don't see how. A prism divides light into its component colours. Much like the the word that is 'quick and active , sharper than a two edge sword separating even soul from spirit'.

I don't see what is wrong with refraction o. Abeg explain.

Lol.

How can the result and outcome of one seeing every thing Bible through a thick glass/through a strongly entrenched dogmatic sentiment cum philosophy of Orthodoxy be free from bias?

truthislight:

How can the result and outcome of one seeing every thing Bible through a thick glass/through a strongly entrenched dogmatic sentiment cum philosophy of Orthodoxy be free from bias?

PastorAIO:


Do you know what a contradiction is?

Look at these 2 statements:

A: my name is Yahweh, nobody knew this before

B: thousands of years before A people began to call on the name Yahweh.

Unless people can call on yahwehs name and yet not be aware of the name at the same time THEN. The two statements are contradictions.


And now as for the redundancy of the bible .... I would not go so far as to make it redundant but I set out my objective a while.

1)This notion that the Bible is some special inspiration given by God and esteemed above every other inspiration in existence is crap.

I can get more spiritual edification from observing a painting or listening to a song than any biblical passage can offer.

2). I think it is utterly stupid to claim that the Truth, ultimate Truth, is embedded within a Text.

3) The elevation of the bible to some sort of 'constitution' of Christianity is effected purposely to detract away from the Authority of the church so the Protestant reformation can take place.

4) the substitution of reading the bible as the central Christian practice instead of the actual practice of its ethical and sacramental tenets is a cause of much irreligious activities.

5) I hate the spread of mendacity and extolling the bible as an historical and scientifically factual book is the highest peak of mendacity.


There's more. It let's digest that one first.

You Orthodox bias hatred for the Bible is pungent.

Your fore fathers with such hate made all concerted effort to do away with the Bible.

The subject that we are discussing is not the character ( half or full) of Yahweh. We are discussing the name. You are twisting so hard that you want to destroy the whole edifice of the English language as well.

Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them"[/i]

Now tell me, is that even grammatically correct English. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Please tell us the name of the bible version that you read that translated it like that, if you're not lying.

What new character did God show to them that he hadn't shown before.?

MuttleyLaff:
You will always say someone is a very confused person,
if they're not giving you the answers you want to hear
but since you first brought it up, thinking of it, it's really you, who is more confused than a chameleon in a bag of skittles
and all because you are not paying attention and giving careful consideration to the post's each and every word

Just because you know my name doesn't mean you know me
Likewise, just because certain patriachs used and know Yahweh's name, doesnt mean they know Yahweh

You've miscontrued all my honest and well-intended response(s)
Nothing spoilt because everything will make perfect sense, when, later you understand what does Yahweh mean
So for now, laugh at the confusion

SMH, the problem is, you're clutching on to "So the full meaning of Yahweh is revealed by sending plagues to egypt?"
but failing to lay hold of the underlined in: "by my name, Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them"

Where are you getting "they didn't know Yahweh" from?

The original text says: "by my name, Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them"
"not I did reveal" are the keywords in that original text statement

You have heard people say:
"Maa fi han ẹ, nkan ti orukọ mi jẹ" or "Orukọ nro"

meaning when loosely translated:
"I will show you or reveal to you why I am called by my name" or "aptly named, he's living up to the name"

¹³Then the Lord said to Abram, “You can be sure that your descendants will be strangers in a foreign land,
where they will be oppressed as slaves for 400 years.
¹⁴But I will punish the nation that enslaves them, and in the end they will come away with great wealth.
1⁵(As for you, you will die in peace and be buried at a ripe old age.)
¹⁶After four generations your descendants will return here to this land,
for the sins of the Amorites do not yet warrant their destruction.”
(i.e. for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its full measure)
- Genesis 15:13-16

Your "his full genocidal capabilities" outburst, as you can see in Genesis 15:13-16 above, was God's judgement on them for their wickedness

Yep, even though He wiped out the earth with a flood in His capacity
He wiped out the earth with a flood, in His capacity as El-Shaddai (i.e. in His capacity as God Almighty) and not as Yahweh
but now, God, in effect, is telling Moses, they dont call Me Yahweh for nothing
and that He wants to do justice to the name.
God wants to live up to his Yahweh name
He is going to meet the expectations that the Yahweh name suggests and commands
You may call it nominative determinism, if you wish

I know quite a few, for a start, know sarassin and know what sarassin's ID or name means
I know you too, know what your Nairaland ID handle or name is
but what does the PastorAIO ID name mean and do you live up to it?

truthislight:





You Orthodox bias hatred for the Bible is pungent.

Your fore fathers with such hate made all concerted effort to do away with the Bible.

Actually I don't hate the bible, but I do hate the way you are attempting to misuse it and to turn it into what it's not and what it never claimed to be.

You tell me, you're the well experienced expert.

truthislight:


Lol.

How can the result and outcome of one seeing every thing Bible through a thick glass/through a strongly entrenched dogmatic sentiment cum philosophy of Orthodoxy be free from bias?

truthislight:




You are entitled to your personal opinion.

Thank you. However the meaning of Contradiction is not a matter of personal opinion.

PastorAIO:
The subject that we are discussing is not the character (half or full) of Yahweh.
We are discussing the name.

Ose ooo meaning thank you ooo
Same way I wasnt asking about your character when I typed:
I know quite a few, for a start, know sarassin and know what sarassin's ID or name means
I know you too, know what your Nairaland ID handle or name is
but what does the PastorAIO ID name mean and do you live up to it?

PastorAIO:
You are twisting so hard that you want to destroy the whole edifice of the English language as well.
Yahweh, not I did reveal unto them"

You are trying so hard and dont want to accept that Exodus 6:3 wast originally written in English

PastorAIO:
Now tell me, is that even grammatically correct English.
Stop embarrassing yourself

You are committed to misunderstanding me
No matter how carefully I present or choose my words, they'll always end up being twisted by you
Look at the text analysis in the below screenshot and tell, if it isnt you embarrassing yourself

PastorAIO:
Please tell us the name of the bible version that you read that translated it like that, if you're not lying

Your wish is my command
I am reading the original, and not any particular translations nor translated versions per se

PastorAIO:
What new character did God show to them that he hadn't shown before.?

Here you go again getting continually preoccupied with character
Though you chose to ignore it
but where I earlier asked about, what does the PastorAIO ID name mean and do you live up to it
I wasnt asking about your character but was asking about the PastorAIO ID name

You have heard people say:
"Maa fi han ẹ, nkan ti orukọ mi jẹ" or "Orukọ nro"
meaning when loosely translated:
"I will reveal to why I am called by my name" or "aptly named, he's living up to the name"

Well, you and I, know and accept that, Yahweh means I AM THAT I AM, isnt it?
We can at least agree on that, cant we?

I want to believe you have now, seen I am not lying
and you are honorable enough to retract that statement suggesting I am

We run a huge risk when we treat biblical accounts as accurate historical renditions. In the story of Abraham for instance Genesis 11:31 says that Terah took his son and family from the land of Ur of the Chaldeans, we know that this cannot be because the Chaldeans did not exist before the 5th and 6th centuries BCE, historians date the Genesis account to somewhere around 2000BCE based only on clues found in Genesis. Not to put too fine a point on it, Abraham supposedly came from a land of people who did not exist until 1500 years after he lived.

Oral tradition states Ur as the starting point for Abraham and his family, it seems entirely logical for biblical scribes to assume that the name was tied to the same place they knew in their period, this would place the composition of the Book of Genesis to around the 6th century BCE, the implications here are clear.

Recent archaeological finds in the shape of the ‘Mari’ clay tablets in Syria seem to indicate that it is more likely that Abraham and his family could have come from the ‘Sumerian Ur’.
I do not think it is a fait accompli that Abraham actually existed, it seems to me he is more of a composite figure and an allegory for the inception of the Jewish people, I believe he was a ‘student’ of Melchizedek literally or figuratively (just my opinion here) In any case there is as yet no actual historical context that makes Abraham or even Isaac credible historical figures.

wow.. I've learnt a lot from this thread.. kudos to the contributors

My point with the above post is that I would not lay too much credence on what God purportedly said to Abraham and on when or where God supposedly said these things in terms of the monotheism arguments of this thread. Genesis is in itself all over the place, for instance we have Jacob studying the Torah in his tent, a Torah that God delivered to an as yet unborn Moses but I digress!

If we accept that the Book of Genesis was composed roughly in the 6th century BCE in the Priestly courts then that date range becomes crucial it places us nicely in sync with the post exilic writings of Isaiah and Ezekiel.

In Ezekiel 33:24 written during the Exile (in the first half of the 6th century BCE), Ezekiel, himself an exile in Babylon, tells how those who remained in Judah were claiming ownership of the land based on inheritance from Abraham; but the prophet tells them they have no claim because they don't observe the Torah.

Isaiah 63:16 similarly testifies of tension between the people of Judah and the returning post-exilic Jews stating that God is the father of Israel and that Israel's history begins with the Exodus and not with Abraham. The conclusion to be drawn is that the figure of Abraham was vital to the great landowners of Judah at the time of the exile.

The Genesis stories written around the same time as the post exilic writings of Isaiah and Ezekiel served to support their claims to the land in opposition to those of the returning exiles. In other words the Book of Genesis is a bit more political in nature than doctrinal.

Op JMAN05,

Traditionalists believe that the Oromo ppl of Ethiopia and Kenya traditional religion, whose God is called Waka is the oldest monotheistic religion in the world and that Moses borrowed the Ten Commandments from them.

Hati13:
Op JMAN05,

Traditionalists believe that the Oromo ppl of Ethiopia and Kenya traditional religion, whose God is called Waka is the oldest monotheistic religion in the world and that Moses borrowed the Ten Commandments from them.

What traditionalists? and yes we know that Moses took a wrong turn in the desert but, Ethiopia? Kenya?

Sarassin:


What traditionalists? and yes we know that Moses took a wrong turn in the desert but, Ethiopia? Kenya?

I don't know, but I saw online that say like this.

Oromos mainly live in Ethiopia. I included Kenya, because some Oromos also live in northern Kenya.

PastorAIO:


Actually I don't hate the bible, but I do hate the way you are attempting to misuse it and to turn it into what it's not and what it never claimed to be.

The Bible remains what it is. THE WORD OF GOD. QED.

It does not need Orthodoxy seal of approval to be it neither does it need yours. Live and lets live.

Let to them, it would have been destroyed not to talk of people they have killed for owning one.

Twisting the Bible and not following cum following of tradition of men is the problem and not the Bible.

If certain people have lost influence that is not the Bible's fault. Christ did not bestow any such influence on any particular person. They got it through the back door.

"Know the truth and the truth will set you free", the Bible says and has always says.

Peace.

PastorAIO:


Thank you. However the meaning of Contradiction is not a matter of personal opinion.

I see no contradiction. You wished.

MuttleyLaff:
Ose ooo meaning thank you

Youscreenshot and tell, if it

Writing so many words to said total nonsense.

You know the name PadtorAIO but you don't know the name my mother gave me. The day you know that name you will know the appellation by which I am called. The pronounciation etc. Enoch that walked with him, Abram that was his friend, Jacob that racked with him that he couldn't dominate....you want to claim that you know him better than they did. I can't even bother to argue over that with you. Na you sabi (as you claim quite literally along with sarcastically).
But you yourself know that your position is rubbish that is why you now resort to claiming that you read the bible in Hebrew. Hahahaha! Even I had to laugh at that one.

In different languages you can put the negation at different points in a sentence depending on the language. German would put it at the end. If there is no food in the table a sequentially translation of the sentences to English would go:

"There is food in the table not! "

But that is poor English grammar so when you translate to English you say "there isn't food in the table"
In French they put it at both ends of the verb.
E.g Il NE va PAS
That means he is not going.
You however would say: He not going not!

Can you see the depths of stupidity to which you have plunged simply by trying to defend the indefensible?

Unless you know something about Hebrew and English language that none of all the translators of the bible know then you are just a mendacious trickster.

Exodus has Yahweh saying that he did not reveal the name Yahweh to them. Full stop.

truthislight:


The Bible remains what it is. [color=red]THE WORD OF GOD. QED.[/color.

You have summarised yourself here. It is finished.

Abusing qed like a buffoon. Perhaps you just don't know that q.e.d follows a successful line of argumentation and you can't just jump to it after an assertion.

The d part of qed means demonatrandun. You have not demonstrated anything. Now I'm certain that fake religion has corrosive effects on the brain.

PastorAIO:


You have summarised yourself here. It is finished.

Abusing qed like a buffoon. Perhaps you just don't know that q.e.d follows a successful line of argumentation and you can't just jump to it after an assertion.

The d part of qed means demonatrandun. You have not demonstrated anything. Now I'm certain that fake religion has corrosive effects on the brain.

Is this AIO? losing control?

Chill men! Take a deep breath! Calm down!!!


The influence driving you is impulsive hence.

Must it get the Bible destroyed by all cost? Take it easy men, I know you can't and will never succeed till you spend your tweeny little days here on this part of the solar system, just as your predecessors failed you are destined to fail woefully also.

The Bible cannot be destroyed. QED.

Peace.

Chill!

ps:
Guess whose brain is corrosive from the above.

Hati13:
Op JMAN05,

Traditionalists believe that the Oromo ppl of Ethiopia and Kenya traditional religion, whose God is called Waka is the oldest monotheistic religion in the world and that Moses borrowed the Ten Commandments from them.

Lol.

JMAN05:


Lol.

My reaction when I first read it online was also like you. Oromos had tried to completely destroy my country Ethiopia and I'm mad by this, so I'm not being biased.

Some Oromos even believe that it was their ancestors who built the civilizations of Egypt and Sudan.
Most of their claims are myth

PastorAIO:


Moses was a writer. I am a writer. Napoleon the great also wrote. So what?

Moses wrote the law. So what?
The book of Exodus etc which contained the law is not written by Moses. Why? Because these books report moses' death. Moses cannot write about what happened to his body when he died.
Perhaps moses' writings were inserted into the books but that doesn't make them written by Moses.
The fact that the book reports moses' death trumps anything you can say to prove moses wrote it.

I dong understand. Which books are you referring to that contains Moses death? I could remember not just Deuteronomy, but only the 34th chapter. Am I missing something?

PastorAIO:


again, the book contradicts itself by reporting on moses' death.

Where?

JMAN05:


Where?

Deuteronomy 34
And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said. 6 He buried him[a] in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not we


But I think I might see your point. Deuteronomy is not exodus.
However we are told that they are all the five Books of Moses.

Sarassin:
My point with the above post is that I would not lay too much credence on what God purportedly said to Abraham and on when or where God supposedly said these things in terms of the monotheism arguments of this thread. Genesis is in itself all over the place, for instance we have Jacob studying the Torah in his tent, a Torah that God delivered to an as yet unborn Moses but I digress!

I want to see the reference.

PastorAIO:


Deuteronomy 34
And Moses the servant of the Lord died there in Moab, as the Lord had said. 6 He buried him[a] in Moab, in the valley opposite Beth Peor, but to this day no one knows where his grave is. 7 Moses was a hundred and twenty years old when he died, yet his eyes were not we


But I think I might see your point. Deuteronomy is not exodus.
However we are told that they are all the five Books of Moses.

You can only make a logical case on chapter 34 of Deut, not on all his writings. What it goes to show is that that chapter 34 was the last written piece. Whoever wrote that part, I don't know for now.