"I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things" - Isaiah 45:7

"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That both good and ill go forth? " - Lamentations 3:38

"But an evil[a] spirit from the Lord came on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the lyre" - 1 Samuel 19:9

"For the LORD will pass through the land to strike down the Egyptians. But when he sees the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe, the LORD will pass over your home. He will not permit his death angel to enter your house and strike you down" - Exodus 12:23

"When the angel stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the calamity and said to the angel who destroyed the people, "It is enough! Now relax your hand!" And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite" - 2 Samuel 24:16

"If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee" - Exodus 15:26

"The Lord has prepared everything for his purpose— even the wicked for the day of disaster" - Proverbs 16:4

When a man reads too much and begin to show some mental instability and curiosity he ask this question.
Just note that our God is a good God; omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. We attribute every good thing to Him (depending on the divide you are) and blame Satan for every evil after all he's the devil.

Dabeto before you start shouting why did God approve the calamity and destruction that befell job all in the name of testing his faith

Samsimple:
Dabeto before you start shouting why did God approve the calamity and destruction that befell job all in the name of testing his faith

[color=#006600][/color]
Bros, I don't need to visit a psychiatrist. Leave God for God. He's all in all. Unsearchable with unfathomable love.

The devil works for God and he doesn't know.

He is agathokakological.

frosbel2:
"I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things" - Isaiah 45:7

"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That both good and ill go forth? " - Lamentations 3:38

"But an evil[a] spirit from the Lord came on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the lyre" - 1 Samuel 19:9

"For the LORD will pass through the land to strike down the Egyptians. But when he sees the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe, the LORD will pass over your home. He will not permit his death angel to enter your house and strike you down" - Exodus 12:23

"When the angel stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the calamity and said to the angel who destroyed the people, "It is enough! Now relax your hand!" And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite" - 2 Samuel 24:16

"If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee" - Exodus 15:26

"The Lord has prepared everything for his purpose— even the wicked for the day of disaster" - Proverbs 16:4

Beautiful post @Frosbel2

When one really does read his bible and develop thinking ability and a sense of justice he has, he will not fail to ask those question.

I did.

Well, The issue here is the intent of the heart that is asking, is it with the intent to know why or with the intent to scandalize

The intent is key, cause there is one that searches the heart and the one searching here will not be the one to help a crooked heart, a crooked heart becomes evil to him.

First off, it is ERROR for humans to use human standards to judge the almighty. yes, when you do that you go wrong full throttle.

To illustrate, a man found it wrong that a Creator killed humans.
As noble as the above may sound, and as honest as the quarry may be, it does not make it right. Why?

Well, it is an affront to confront me for destroying my OWN property. If you run to a burning car, you may wish to put off the fire, but if it is pointed out to you that the owner is over there and he is the one that set it on fire you can only ask why? Yes WHY? Any other effort against the owner can get you into trouble, cause one is entitle to destroy his property, fighting me for destroying my Rags is an abnormally.

Such as the above is the logical stance that should be applied to Yahweh. Yahweh can destroy his property whenever he so wishes based on the standard he has set for them and himself. And humans are his property.

The same Judge that recommends reward is the same Judge that will recommend the death sentence. besides, it is rash for someone to draw conclusion without getting all the facts, modesty prevents one from falling into that trap.

It is and will always look like an irony to me to conclude that the one that endowed me with "FREEWILL" is the bad guy when i know if i were the one i would never have given FREEWILL to my creatures.

We don't always have all the facts and the whole pictures when it comes to Yehweh, considering especially that he reads the heart and knows the intentions of those he is judging.

A loving father that so cherished the daughter expressed so much love, but the day she got pregnant out of wedlock the father beat her with such venom that people watched in horror. is it not the same father capable of loving the daughter that beat her?

Yahweh is just as rational as that father and has the capacity and beyond to punish a wrong doer as he deemed necessary. Were humans not created in his image?

Again. If with a sling i went out of my way and was guiding someone on a cliff to support him, and this one i was guiding turned wicked, if i should leave the sling, what will happened to such a person?

If Yahweh, via his Holy spirit was helping Saul the king and Protecting him from evil, then this Saul turned wicked wanting to killed someone else that Yahweh love, If yahweh gets angry and abandons him, what will happen to Saul?

That the man i was helping on a Cliff with a string falls after i have left the string, am i the one that pushed him? NO!

That Yahweh abandons Saul and bad things happened to him, it does not mean Yahweh is evil, nor does the fact that i left the string supporting someone wicked makes me a wicked man. Rather, it shows that i hate evil.

Yahweh has the balanced capacity to exude blessings and exude punishment just like you and me. Is it only you that can punish evil and Yahweh cannot? Your good spirit is blessing and your bad spirit is punishment. Just a matter of nomenclature.

The story can be very long on what you have posted that we cannot exhaust it all here, but i can only say to you, keep a honest heart and never get angry with the one that gave you FREEWILL, never be angry with the one that gave you this ability to ask all this questions.

Peace.

truthislight:


Beautiful post @Frosbel2

When one really does read his bible and develop thinking ability and a sense of justice he has, he will not fail to ask those question.

I did.

Well, The issue here is the intent of the heart that is asking, is it with the intent to know why or with the intent to scandalize

The intent is key, cause there is one that searches the heart and the one searching here will not be the one to help a crooked heart, a crooked heart becomes evil to him.

First off, it is ERROR for humans to use human standards to judge the almighty. yes, when you do that you go wrong full throttle.

To illustrate, a man found it wrong that a Creator killed humans.
As noble as the above may sound, and as honest as the quarry may be, it does not make it right. Why?

Well, it is an affront to confront me for destroying my OWN property. If you run to a burning car, you may wish to put off the fire, but if it is pointed out to you that the owner is over there and he is the one that set it on fire you can only ask why? Yes WHY? Any other effort against the owner can get you into trouble, cause one is entitle to destroy his property, fighting me for destroying my Rags is an abnormally.

Such as the above is the logical stance that should be applied to Yahweh. Yahweh can destroy his property whenever he so wishes based on the standard he has set for them and himself. And humans are his property.

The same Judge that recommends reward is the same Judge that will recommend the death sentence. besides, it is rash for someone to draw conclusion without getting all the facts, modesty prevents one from falling into that trap.

It is and will always look like an irony to me to conclude that the one that endowed me with "FREEWILL" is the bad guy when i know if i were the one i would never have given FREEWILL to my creatures.

We don't always have all the facts and the whole pictures when it comes to Yehweh, considering especially that he reads the heart and knows the intentions of those he is judging.

A loving father that so cherished the daughter expressed so much love, but the day she got pregnant out of wedlock the father beat her with such venom that people watched in horror. is it not the same father capable of loving the daughter that beat her?

Yahweh is just as rational as that father and has the capacity and beyond to punish a wrong doer as he deemed necessary. Were humans not created in his image?

Again. If with a sling i went out of my way and was guiding someone on a cliff to support him, and this one i was guiding turned wicked, if i should leave the sling, what will happened to such a person?

If Yahweh, via his Holy spirit was helping Saul the king and Protecting him from evil, then this Saul turned wicked wanting to killed someone else that Yahweh love, If yahweh gets angry and abandons him, what will happen to Saul?

That the man i was helping on a Cliff with a string falls after i have left the string, am i the one that pushed him? NO!

That Yahweh abandons Saul and bad things happened to him, it does not mean Yahweh is evil, nor does the fact that i left the string supporting someone wicked makes me a wicked man. Rather, it shows that i hate evil.

Yahweh has the balanced capacity to exude blessings and exude punishment just like you and me. Is it only you that can punish evil and Yahweh cannot? Your good spirit is blessing and your bad spirit is punishment. Just a matter of nomenclature.

The story can be very long on what you have posted that we cannot exhaust it all here, but i can only say to you, keep a honest heart and never get angry with the one that gave you FREEWILL, never be angry with the one that gave you this ability to ask all this questions.

Peace.

the length people go to defend the tyranny of the so called loving God, is astounding.

I never asked anyone to create me by the way.

Proudgorgeousga:


the length people go to defend the tyranny of the so called loving God, is astounding.

I never asked anyone to create me by the way.

A man without god is something

But

A god without man is nothing

Man always doing the fightin for god who's "powerful"

Proudgorgeousga:


the length people go to defend the tyranny of the so called loving God, is astounding.

I never asked anyone to create me by the way.

Are you afraid of really speaking out?

Please do, it wont bite.

throwing aspersion and tantrums is for the lazy minds.

Peace.

adepeter2027:

A man without god is something

But

A god without man is nothing

Man always doing the fightin for god who's "powerful"

See Them coming. see them shooting, political people!.......

Frosbel2 must have been making a lot of people happy with his questions.

But i commended frosbel2 for the questions he is asking, why attacking me? LOL.

truthislight:


See Them coming. see them shooting, political people!.......

Frosbel2 must have been making alot od people happy with his questions.

But i commended frosbel2 for the questions he is asking, why attacking me? LOL.

Who's attacking you

Proudgorgeousga:


the length people go to defend the tyranny of the so called loving God, is astounding.

I never asked anyone to create me by the way.

while I was doubting my faith back then, I usually mocked my fellow brethren calling them 'mighty defenders of God.'

adepeter2027:

Who's attacking you

Lol.

I only wanted you to write more but still, your write up is still reducing.

Come on girl, speak out.

Express your stance and misgivings.

truthislight:


Are you afraid of really speaking out?

Please do, it wont bite.

throwing aspersion and tantrums is for the lazy minds.

Peace.

Tell me how Yahweh and Satan are different?

Here is a logical philosophical question,

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

tintingz:
Tell me how Yahweh and Satan are different?

Here is a logical philosophical question,

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?" ~ Epicurus

I don't owe Epicurus any explanation, the reason i am here is because Frosbel2 raised his questions from the Bible, otherwise i would not have had a time to waste with human philosophy.

Based your questions on what the Bible says and i may have one or two things to say.

However, the instance of Adam, Job and Jesus shows that the person Satan has a claim he is accusing Yahweh on, that his ways are bad and that Humans will not be obedient to him, and that his is better, hence he tempts all humans like he did the before mentioned persons above to act the way he Satan wishes> be disobedient to Yahweh.

Every one has to take a stand for or against the opposing stance.

Adam took a stance, Job did and same was Jesus. You either obey or disobey Yahweh. You too have a choice to make, either agree with Satan that humans don't need Yahweh to tell us what to do or you agree with Yahweh that he should tell you what to do like he was telling Adam what to do..

While Yahweh is waiting before taking action, is to give every one equal opportunity in every nation in all the earth. This Process going round the earth started with the nation of Israel and is spreading to all lands. Hence, it will take time to go round.

After it has gone round to all the Earth as a witness to all the nations, then Yahweh will take action. Matt 24:14.

Yahweh has demonstrated that he has all it takes to resolve the issues and sufferings, but on his own conditions.

Haven't been bestowed with the beauty of Freewill, it beholds that your decisions and stance must be taken into consideration on matters that will affect you.

Peace.

truthislight:


I don't owe Epicurus any explanation, the reason i am here is because Frosbel2 raised his questions from the Bible, otherwise i would not have had a time to waste with human philosophy.

Based your questions on what the Bible says and i may have one or two things to say.

However, the instance of Adam, Job and Jesus shows that the person Satan has a claim he is accusing Yahweh on, that his ways are bad and that Humans will not be obedient to him, and that his is better, hence he tempts all humans like he did the before mentioned persons above to act the way he Satan wishes> be disobedient to Yahweh.

Every one has to take a stand for or against the opposing stance.

Adam took a stance, Job did and same was Jesus. You either obey or disobey Yahweh. You too have a choice to make, either agree with Satan that humans don't need Yahweh to tell us what to do or you agree with Yahweh that he should tell you what to do like he was telling Adam what to do..

While Yahweh is waiting before taking action, is to give every one equal opportunity in every nation in all the earth. This Process going round the earth started with the nation of Israel and is spreading to all lands. Hence, it will take time to go round.

After it has gone round to all the Earth as a witness to all the nations, then Yahweh will take action. Matt 24:14.

Yahweh has demonstrated that he has all it takes to resolve the issues and sufferings, but on his own conditions.

Haven't been bestowed with the beauty of Freewill, it beholds that your decisions and stance must be taken into consideration on matters that will affect you.

Peace.

Your post here those not make sense and it still falls back to Epicurus question, and I'm not buying all those mythical stories you put up there.

Let me ask you, if you have the all power to stop bokoharam evil act, won't you put it to an end? If you don't, what should I call you?

tintingz:
Your post here those not make sense and it still falls back to Epicurus question, and I'm not buying all those mythical stories you put up there.

Let me ask you, if you have the all power to stop bokoharam evil act, won't you put it to an end? If you don't, what should I call you?

As long as you don't get the Bible argument and you don't understand what the Bible msg is, it becomes strange to you what am saying.

Yes, i won't take Epicurus argument nor even pay attention to it as long as it has nothing to do with the Bible, but i attempted to state what Yahweh's plans are when it comes to fixing the ills on the earth.

Actually, my discussion centers on the Bible and the msg of the Bible, outside that am not game.

Mortals have nothing to offer me when they could not even save their own lives from death.

I am interested in what Yahweh says cause my life depends on whatever he says. Refusal is what has kept man in this lot. Man that cannot change his hair from black to white talk less of giving me eternal life is not worth me taking his philosophy to the Bank

Go ask Adam how far.

truthislight:


As long as you don't get the Bible argument and you don't understand what the Bible msg is, it becomes strange to you what am saying.

Yes, i won't take Epicurus argument nor even pay attention to it as long as it has nothing to do with the Bible, but i attempted to state what Yahweh's plans are when it comes to fixing the ills on the earth.

Actually, my discussion centers on the Bible and the msg of the Bible, outside that am not game.

Mortals have nothing to offer me when they could not even save their own lives from death.

I am interested in what Yahweh says cause my life depends on whatever he says. Refusal is what has kept man in this lot. Man that cannot change his hair from black to white talk less of giving me eternal life is not worth me taking his philosophy to the Bank

Go ask Adam how far.

Ok, you only care about what the Bible says.

The killing of innocent children in Egypt by Yahweh in Exodus, is it just?

Make me understand Yahweh's actions and that of Satan.

tintingz:
Ok, you only care about what the Bible says.

The killing of innocent children in Egypt by Yahweh in Exodus, is it just?

Make me understand Yahweh's actions and that of Satan.

You only show that you did not understand my initial post on this thread. Go read it again.

tintingz:
Your post here those not make sense and it still falls back to Epicurus question, and I'm not buying all those mythical stories you put up there.

Let me ask you, if you have the all power to stop bokoharam evil act, won't you put it to an end? If you don't, what should I call you?

Has Atheism snatched you from Muhammad

truthislight:


Beautiful post @Frosbel2

When one really does read his bible and develop thinking ability and a sense of justice he has, he will not fail to ask those question.

I did.

Well, The issue here is the intent of the heart that is asking, is it with the intent to know why or with the intent to scandalize

The intent is key, cause there is one that searches the heart and the one searching here will not be the one to help a crooked heart, a crooked heart becomes evil to him.

First off, it is ERROR for humans to use human standards to judge the almighty. yes, when you do that you go wrong full throttle.

To illustrate, a man found it wrong that a Creator killed humans.
As noble as the above may sound, and as honest as the quarry may be, it does not make it right. Why?

Well, it is an affront to confront me for destroying my OWN property. If you run to a burning car, you may wish to put off the fire, but if it is pointed out to you that the owner is over there and he is the one that set it on fire you can only ask why? Yes WHY? Any other effort against the owner can get you into trouble, cause one is entitle to destroy his property, fighting me for destroying my Rags is an abnormally.

Such as the above is the logical stance that should be applied to Yahweh. Yahweh can destroy his property whenever he so wishes based on the standard he has set for them and himself. And humans are his property.

The same Judge that recommends reward is the same Judge that will recommend the death sentence. besides, it is rash for someone to draw conclusion without getting all the facts, modesty prevents one from falling into that trap.

It is and will always look like an irony to me to conclude that the one that endowed me with "FREEWILL" is the bad guy when i know if i were the one i would never have given FREEWILL to my creatures.

We don't always have all the facts and the whole pictures when it comes to Yehweh, considering especially that he reads the heart and knows the intentions of those he is judging.

A loving father that so cherished the daughter expressed so much love, but the day she got pregnant out of wedlock the father beat her with such venom that people watched in horror. is it not the same father capable of loving the daughter that beat her?

Yahweh is just as rational as that father and has the capacity and beyond to punish a wrong doer as he deemed necessary. Were humans not created in his image?

Again. If with a sling i went out of my way and was guiding someone on a cliff to support him, and this one i was guiding turned wicked, if i should leave the sling, what will happened to such a person?

If Yahweh, via his Holy spirit was helping Saul the king and Protecting him from evil, then this Saul turned wicked wanting to killed someone else that Yahweh love, If yahweh gets angry and abandons him, what will happen to Saul?

That the man i was helping on a Cliff with a string falls after i have left the string, am i the one that pushed him? NO!

That Yahweh abandons Saul and bad things happened to him, it does not mean Yahweh is evil, nor does the fact that i left the string supporting someone wicked makes me a wicked man. Rather, it shows that i hate evil.

Yahweh has the balanced capacity to exude blessings and exude punishment just like you and me. Is it only you that can punish evil and Yahweh cannot? Your good spirit is blessing and your bad spirit is punishment. Just a matter of nomenclature.

The story can be very long on what you have posted that we cannot exhaust it all here, but i can only say to you, keep a honest heart and never get angry with the one that gave you FREEWILL, never be angry with the one that gave you this ability to ask all this questions.

Peace.

I like this.
Epic.

Proudgorgeousga:


the length people go to defend the tyranny of the so called loving God, is astounding.

I never asked anyone to create me by the way.

Since you don't want the FREEWILL of life HE gave you, you can always return the life back to HIM FREEWILL.
As simple as that.

MistadeRegal:


Since you don't want the FREEWILL of life HE gave you, you can always return the life back to HIM FREEWILL.
As simple as that.

See this one

1Sharon:

See this one

You again! Hunting or stalking me?

MistadeRegal:


You again!
Hunting or stalking me?

1Sharon:

Mmmm.... I've left that thread for you guys... Make una no carry that 'one' come here too o.

OP...
IFA says "Tibi Tire la da ile aye" meaning 'the world was created with both good and bad/evil components'
The good components are in charge of the good things that happens,the bad ones are in charge of the bad things that happens.
There has to be a balance.
This is my traditional explanation to your question

truthislight:


You only show that you did not understand my initial post on this thread. Go read it again.

You talked about Yahweh destroying his property and also talked about freewill.

# First of all it depends on the nature of the property you're talking about, destroying a house, table is a non-living thing it doesn't apply here, killing animals is against animal rights, now killing intellectual concious emotional humans especially innocent ones is barbaric and wickedness. Do you support slave masters suffering and killing thier slaves because they own them? Even there is no emotional robots yet, destroying it is nothing.

# Now to freewill, since Yahweh knows the beginning and end of everyone, he has planned everything (destiny), are we acting on freewill or destiny? I will like to know why Yahweh want all these to happen and what he wants to gain in all these life saga?

Emusan:


Has Atheism snatched you from Muhammad

Reasoning snatched me from Muhammad.

frosbel2:
"I form light and create darkness; I make well-being and create calamity; I am the LORD, who does all these things" - Isaiah 45:7

"Is it not from the mouth of the Most High That both good and ill go forth? " - Lamentations 3:38

"But an evil[a] spirit from the Lord came on Saul as he was sitting in his house with his spear in his hand. While David was playing the lyre" - 1 Samuel 19:9

"For the LORD will pass through the land to strike down the Egyptians. But when he sees the blood on the top and sides of the doorframe, the LORD will pass over your home. He will not permit his death angel to enter your house and strike you down" - Exodus 12:23

"When the angel stretched out his hand toward Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD relented from the calamity and said to the angel who destroyed the people, "It is enough! Now relax your hand!" And the angel of the LORD was by the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite" - 2 Samuel 24:16

"If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee" - Exodus 15:26

"The Lord has prepared everything for his purpose— even the wicked for the day of disaster" - Proverbs 16:4

Your methods are old, as a matter of fact, its all old testament, making the whole thing boring

If I read carefully, I will notice that most of the verses talks about Judgment for wickedness as you quoted in Proverbs 16:4

truthislight:


Beautiful post @Frosbel2

When one really does read his bible and develop thinking ability and a sense of justice he has, he will not fail to ask those question.

I did.

Well, The issue here is the intent of the heart that is asking, is it with the intent to know why or with the intent to scandalize

The intent is key, cause there is one that searches the heart and the one searching here will not be the one to help a crooked heart, a crooked heart becomes evil to him.

First off, it is ERROR for humans to use human standards to judge the almighty. yes, when you do that you go wrong full throttle.

To illustrate, a man found it wrong that a Creator killed humans.
As noble as the above may sound, and as honest as the quarry may be, it does not make it right. Why?

Well, it is an affront to confront me for destroying my OWN property. If you run to a burning car, you may wish to put off the fire, but if it is pointed out to you that the owner is over there and he is the one that set it on fire you can only ask why? Yes WHY? Any other effort against the owner can get you into trouble, cause one is entitle to destroy his property, fighting me for destroying my Rags is an abnormally.

Such as the above is the logical stance that should be applied to Yahweh. Yahweh can destroy his property whenever he so wishes based on the standard he has set for them and himself. And humans are his property.

The same Judge that recommends reward is the same Judge that will recommend the death sentence. besides, it is rash for someone to draw conclusion without getting all the facts, modesty prevents one from falling into that trap.

It is and will always look like an irony to me to conclude that the one that endowed me with "FREEWILL" is the bad guy when i know if i were the one i would never have given FREEWILL to my creatures.

We don't always have all the facts and the whole pictures when it comes to Yehweh, considering especially that he reads the heart and knows the intentions of those he is judging.

A loving father that so cherished the daughter expressed so much love, but the day she got pregnant out of wedlock the father beat her with such venom that people watched in horror. is it not the same father capable of loving the daughter that beat her?

Yahweh is just as rational as that father and has the capacity and beyond to punish a wrong doer as he deemed necessary. Were humans not created in his image?

Again. If with a sling i went out of my way and was guiding someone on a cliff to support him, and this one i was guiding turned wicked, if i should leave the sling, what will happened to such a person?

If Yahweh, via his Holy spirit was helping Saul the king and Protecting him from evil, then this Saul turned wicked wanting to killed someone else that Yahweh love, If yahweh gets angry and abandons him, what will happen to Saul?

That the man i was helping on a Cliff with a string falls after i have left the string, am i the one that pushed him? NO!

That Yahweh abandons Saul and bad things happened to him, it does not mean Yahweh is evil, nor does the fact that i left the string supporting someone wicked makes me a wicked man. Rather, it shows that i hate evil.

Yahweh has the balanced capacity to exude blessings and exude punishment just like you and me. Is it only you that can punish evil and Yahweh cannot? Your good spirit is blessing and your bad spirit is punishment. Just a matter of nomenclature.

The story can be very long on what you have posted that we cannot exhaust it all here, but i can only say to you, keep a honest heart and never get angry with the one that gave you FREEWILL, never be angry with the one that gave you this ability to ask all this questions.

Peace.

Thanks for coming around, I learnt a lot from this