c733d:


Read my post again. When you understand it and have a legitimate question, kindly inform me.

touche

Dsov2016:


wow that's nice but do you think privatisation benefits the common man.

Yep
It's lazy ppl that it doesn't benefit

a corporation will always first look for profit and if the best way to get profit is at the expense of the common man then so be it.

The corporation cannot exist without the common man
And they can't force you to buy only govt can force you to part with money via taxes and guns (socialism)

its even worse in Nigeria where it is so easy to subvert the institutions.

But not the market

if you think I'm lying just research why our mining sector is in the doldrums.

It is in doldrums because govt is involved with land rights

in the area of education more educated people means an enlightened populace which would mean more people willing to resolve arguments by debates rather than force of arms but more importantly it will encourage innovations

private education and public education. Where is violence most

TsaTrinity:

I certainly don't know. But psychologically, we tend sweet talk anything we want. Politicians promise heaven and earth but don't deliver when they get to their elected position. Its not their fault. They're carried away by the popularity and monetary gain they get.

Not really
They are carried away by voters voting for bad leadership

To answer your question well, if am to become the president, which I don't even pray for, I will do worse because I can't rule Nigeria. Am not downgrading myself. Its just the truth. Nigeria needs a stubborn but generous leader who understands the Nigerian needs and how to give them despite the hardship he/she faces.
No Nigerian has had this. We all are looking for where we will eat and get satisfied

yes and if the politician wants votes he needs to deliver

DeepSight:


1960 Constitution

what's wrong with it

transformed:


The statement I made was embedded with the fact that we have capacity to produce sufficient steel if concerted effort can be directed into steel making infrastructures.

We have iron Ore not capacity
We import capacity and very bad one at that

Industrial revolution in most developed countries of today have been found to be majorly rely on the development of steel industry of each of the country.

They rely on smart hardworking ppl

From US and Europeans in the in late 19th to early 20th century...Japan since the 30s, and Lastly China in recent years. About 70% of cost of structural infrastructures and machinery comes from steel..for instance,

Actually labor not steel
70% of raw materials maybe

steel are the major component of refinery and pipelines...any infrastructural endeavor in the country without indigenous steel is tantamount to waste through shipping of scarce fund oversee. Nigeria can be self sufficient in steel.

What I used to think
Only holds true if you're at was with steel producer
Tonne of steel is 600
Can make 40000 dollar car. The remaining 39k is labour cost
We can import the steel
Electricity or cheap energy to replace labor is our problem

There are several iron ore deposit scattered all over the country and west Africa sub region, with Itakpe Kogi state boasting of a massive deposit both in quality and quantity. Ajaokuta if functional would have been one one of the largest steel plant in the world...you might want to say white elephant project...but new steel plant can be built/invested in from the scratch...Ajaokuta subsidiaries in Aladja and Osogbo are ready for work if production start today in Ajaokuta or any other blast furnace.

As oyinbo bribe our leaders to not complete it nko
Patriotic leaders HR what we need
Ready to tell oyinbo to get lost and face the consequences or manipulate oyinbo

Collapsed buildings and eroding roads
Our engineers are all lazy thieves

Our engineers are not lazy and they are not necessarily thieves.

Yeah they are

A lot of indigenous Nigeria construction companies are treated by the government exactly the way we treated our indigenous football coaches...bad pay not paid at the appropriate time. we offer our indigenous coaches that were trained in same training facilities as Europeans fractions (1/10)

If you're so good
Why did you collect ¹/10 of salary for same job
Laziness, not willing to stand up and call them out publicly
Yet oyinbo demands his payment, not lazy
I remember when team Nigeria wanted to strike and embarrass sport officials and Mary onyali threw her team under the bus to win gold medal
Compare with ZiDane defending his mother and sister honor at world cup final
Who gets more respect
Our engineers are lazy thieves I repeat

of what we offer foreign coaches and we still treat our own with disgust...That is exactly the fate of most indigenous government contractors.

They choose their fate
Laziness looking for easy money
Awoof don run dia bele
Stand your ground if you're worth it

Most multinational companies Mobil, Chevron, Shell, JB, P&G, Breweries, MTN, Glo, Dangote group etc are being run by mostly Nigerian Engineers.

Beauty of capitalism
IU only hires the best
Socialism hires the worst

There are several structures that were completed by indigenous company for instance Lagos Domestic was completed by Wale Bablakin's Bi-Courtney.

Toh now you're confessing
But it was done at exorbitant cost(money that should be entering govt coffers) I'm sure
Although I don't know the details

Ofcourse indigenous company might not start building skyscrapers or bridges overnight, it comes with experience...It took China decades into their industrial revolution before they started to build Bridges, but they are now the King in bridge building. Meanwhile, Most of the so called eroding roads are built by foreign companies...


This hasn't solved rice problem in 20 years

I wanted higher tariff on New Automobiles not because I ant us to start producing automobile but to drastically reduce the amount being shipped out of the economy as a result of luxury goods...which in most cases motivate embezzlement of government and company funds...if you want to steal to buy car at least let the money stay in the economy.

Why not immediately

Some children might no be born in the hospitals, parents might not have access to registration facilities because of location...some communities might have to wait for registration officers etc. 2 months should be sufficient to for every parents have access to birth certificate and registration of their kids

Oh
OK
I thought you meant govt should slack for two months

Somebody will still manipulate the contract

with efficient national data/social security number manipulations will be reduced to the barest minimal in about 15 years

Goods and services don't have social security numbers
I meant supply of services (homes health food or what service did you have in mind) it's happening in USA.

Simply force everyone to invest in pension fund of their choice

The social security help will be for elderly people that are helpless and maybe were not opportune to have a structured job that will allow them to have pension scheme...

You can buy pension fund even as a bricklayer

help will come in the form of food, and other necessities...mostly access from local producers

This the contract I was talking about to supply these necessities to govt
Like nysc scam

Leave market alone

No country in the world practice pure market economy, even the US tax the working class to pay the lazy people

Yeah and that's why the lazy ppl are increasing
And the USA is losing its edge to entitlement syndrome

and the elderly...this mostly come in the form of food stamp, cheap housing, free health services, subsidized telecoms, subsidized poatal service, subsidized air ticket, subsidized train services and social welfare security for the elderly...every 65 year old in the US have access to about 10% discount rate on everything they buy anywhere...If the father of market economy will not leave it to the market why should we? Don't forget or you need to realize that Government is different from Business

Govt should only be in security business
Even that is better from private

How will he do his job if he is campaigning for 6 months

of course that can be easily navigated...venturing into politics must come with a price...for instance 6 months leave without pay is an option, such civil servant must be ready to relinquish his/her responsibilities during electioneering...the price ofcourse will be lost of position after return to service.

Abeg he should quit if he has conviction or wait till retirement

The 3 and 5 years limit in Abuja I suggested is to disrupt allegiances and collabos

So so Oga is not on seat ba

Oba ku, oba ku...

fed no wan relinquish power of the purse
Apart from police and railways every other power is devolved already
We're just not serious

No most things still passes through the center...Education for instance( Elementary and universities)

[/quote] it needs to stop if we want to move forward at fastest race


[quote]so

Dsov2016:


wow that's nice but do you think privatisation benefits the common man.

Yes
Creates jobs
Reduces costs of goods
Increases supply
Nitel 400k lines in 40 years GSM 40 million in 4 years

a corporation will always first look for profit and if the best way to get profit is at the expense of the common man then so be it. its even worse in Nigeria where it is so easy to subvert the institutions. if you think I'm lying just research why our mining sector is in the doldrums. in the area of education more educated people means an enlightened populace which would mean more people willing to resolve arguments by debates rather than force of arms but more importantly it will encourage innovations

MIKOLOWISKA:
what's wrong with it

nothing. its better than what we have now. it more naturally captures our set up

DeepSight:


nothing. its better than what we have now. it more naturally captures our set up

so y did you bring it up

MIKOLOWISKA:

Yes
Creates jobs
Reduces costs of goods
Increases supply
Nitel 400k lines in 40 years GSM 40 million in 4 years

capitalism might be the better alternative because of human limitations and greed, but you need to identify that it is not a coincidence that most so called advanced capitalist economy always spice it up with a bit of social welfarism. From Europe, to the Americas. What Bernie Sanders campaigned on was a kind of socialism similar to Obafemi Awolowo proposed doctrine coined Awoism...this is similar to what is obtainable in most Scandinavian countries referred to as Scandinavian model. In addition, what we have in China is socialist market economy and not capitalism as you wrongly posited. It is based on state-ownership of businesses within an open market economy ...a kind of pseudo socialism purposely designed to take advantage of US economy with the help of greedy Americans that kept promoting Chinese interest in the capitol and white house. Under developed economy like ours cannot follow the route you so loved and promoted without an attending impoverishing of the citizen. I wish you look up what our trade deficit look like before you go all out in support of perfect market driven economy. We can never compete compete favorably with any country if we continue to follow the model you are proposing. Why? we lack infrastructure to support such system, and both Nigerians and neighbors are poor (Lack necessary cash to drive market economy) this put us at strategic geographical disadvantage. I think you unjustly compared NITEL 400k lines in 40 years Vs 40 million GSM in 4 years without mentioning that GSM/cell came into mainstream around 1995 and allowed in Nigeria after Abacha died..and that its impact on the 40 million lines we have is daunting...PRIVATIZATION DID NOT CREATE/BRING GSM, IT STOLE IT. I think we should be comparing MTN with NITEL on the basis of opportunity lost and not on the size. NITEL would have sold close to 40 million lines today too if it were to be the sole owner of GSM license....might not be as efficient though... The opportunity lost is that countries like south Africa are the ones taking bulk of the money that is being generated through GSM...What happened to restricting sales to indigenous competition...maybe Transcorp would have fared better that GLO had Havard trained saboteur capitalists not frustrated OBJ... It is very easy for Government have no business in business gang aka market economy to talk about easy money making ventures like telecoms, filling stations, and fuel tank farms that require soft investment with very low exposure but massive profit with small maintenance... What happened to investors in refining, rail system, airlines, road networks, bridges, power etc? Airline as a case study...at least government is not operating, why are our airlines struggling despite the fact that the airports are being subsidized by government? The market gang refuse to tell us that nobody will invest in those highly exposed capital intensive ventures without government assured protection. I am not against privatization, capitalism or market driven economy...what I am against is for smart people to continue to think like robot. If your Harvard training cannot help you to improvise what you were thought to suit our own economy and society...then na Hazard you go...

transformed:
capitalism might be the better alternative

It is

because of human limitations and greed,

2 for 2

but you need to identify that it is not a coincidence that most so called advanced capitalist economy always spice it up with a bit of social welfarism.

Meh

From Europe, to the Americas. What Bernie Sanders campaigned on was a kind of socialism similar to Obafemi Awolowo proposed doctrine coined Awoism...this is similar to what is obtainable in most Scandinavian countries referred to as Scandinavian model.

Socialism is socialism
Out will lead to laziness and poverty last last

In addition, what we have in China is socialist market economy

socialist shmocialist

and not capitalism as you wrongly posited. It is based on state-ownership of businesses within an open market economy ...a kind of pseudo socialism

State capitalism you mean

purposely designed to take advantage of US economy with the help of greedy Americans that kept promoting Chinese interest in the capitol and white house. Under developed economy like ours cannot follow the route you so loved and promoted without an attending impoverishing of the citizen.

Korea did it
Singapore did it
China did it
Why dio you think we can't
Nigerians can make anything work

I wish you look up what our trade deficit look like before you go all out in support of perfect market driven economy. We can never compete compete favorably with any country if we continue to follow the model you are proposing.

Says who
Yrs i know it will be hard for you to do without your luxuries(actual rain We not moving forward btw)

Why? we lack infrastructure to support such system,

private will provide infra that govt refused to
Like transitory
Housing
Water
Health
Tv
Schools
What makes you think private cannot provide infra if unleashed
You lack faith even in face of staggering empirical evidence
Capitalism works everyone
Socialism fails accordingly

and both Nigerians and neighbors are poor (Lack necessary cash to drive market economy)

We have the things cash can buy
Can't eat cash
Cannot build with it
Just pieces of paper

this put us at strategic geographical disadvantage.

Are you in dubai or Japan
Have you seen the land
Its green
Rain
Sun
Oil
Iron
Etc
We are not poor
Just mismanaged

I think you unjustly compared NITEL 400k lines in 40 years Vs 40 million GSM in 4 years without mentioning that GSM/cell came into mainstream around 1995 and allowed in Nigeria after Abacha died..

Deregulation aka privatisation aka capitalism

and that its impact on the 40 million lines we have is daunting...PRIVATIZATION DID NOT CREATE/BRING GSM, IT STOLE IT.

Pls expound on this stealing you speak of
This should be interesting

I think we should be comparing MTN with NITEL on the basis of opportunity lost and not on the size.

One word mtel(twice)
Epic failure of socialisic proportions

NITEL would have sold close to 40 million lines today too if it were to be the sole owner of GSM license....

Sorry this odds where i meant to say

One word mtel(twice)
Epic failure of socialisic proportions

might not be as efficient though...

You think

The opportunity lost is that countries like south Africa are the ones taking bulk of the money that is being generated through GSM...

u snooze u lose
Ride or die

What happened to restricting sales to indigenous competition...maybe Transcorp would have fared better

Hahahahahahahaha
You funny
What are transcript shared selling set today
For lay 6 years
All na rent seeking wash
So much promise but still state crony capitalism (cronyism) failure.only interested in nicon easy no tisk rent business
No production ever
Do much potential lost

that GLO had Havard trained saboteur capitalists not frustrated OBJ... It is very easy for Government have no business in business gang aka market economy to talk about easy money making ventures like telecoms, filling stations, and fuel tank farms that require soft investment with very low exposure but massive profit with small maintenance... What happened to investors in refining

Subsidy scam

, rail system,

Unions and money sharing to the boys

airlines,

Same

road networks,

Ok actually i think roads are public good that govt can handle

bridges, power

Conspiracy too keep masses poor so rice shearing wins elections

etc? Airline as a case study...at least government is not operating, why are our airlines struggling despite the fact that the airports are being subsidized by government?

Cos the airports ARE bi being govt controlled
Nobody id's doin their job cos nobody will get sacked

The market gang refuse to tell us that nobody will invest in those highly exposed capital intensive ventures without government assured protection. I am not against privatization, capitalism or market driven economy...what I am against is for smart people to continue to think like robot. If your Harvard training cannot help you to improvise what you were thought to suit our own economy and society...then na Hazard you go...

I'm nda and ui trained even done polybadan thrown in for good measure
But i credit tv and free browsing mostly

MIKOLOWISKA:
agric can never fall into place automatically

I believe I wrote education in the above , with this you will learn in sch how to operate a mechanized farming , how to use modern equipment and also decide which you want to do .

Like I said everything else will fall in place

1Kingwiz:


I believe I wrote education in the above , with this you will learn in sch how to operate a mechanized farming , how to use modern equipment and also decide which you want to do .

Like I said everything else will fall in place

no normal student is ever interested in agric works over
Since the time. Of adam smith

MIKOLOWISKA:
simple but too much grammar

Translation
Plenty poverty

Provide jobs and wealth and ppl will stop fighting over resources

Lol. Was trying to use few words. Here's the longer version (note: you didn't quite get me as govts cannot provide jobs at scale - they are structured to operate inefficiently, so any enterprise they run to create jobs will die. Govts can only best provide platforms that encourage job creation by the private sector).

LONGER VERSION:
Simply put, the Nigerian challenge is "selfish greed that pursues noninclusive success in a way that is collectively destructive". What used to be "chop I chop" is even now "grab your own copy fast". It creates a vicious cycle for the nation. Reversing it is straightforward if the challenge is well understood, but counterintuitive:

"Install a government that fully supports and protects ALL Socially Responsible Enterprises with ALL of its resources (while also holding each one accountable for their social contracts). Note that not all enterprises are socially responsible; the ones that are, deliberately create jobs and value chain opportunities to benefit the society. Such a sharp and purposeful focus will guarantee the manifestation of the promise of the country".

The outcomes will be employment, inclusiveness, ethnicity transcendence, meritocracy, brotherly love. With these, mass prosperity is inevitable.

coldfire:


"Install a government that fully supports and protects ALL Socially Responsible Enterprises with ALL of its resources (while also holding each one accountable for their social contracts). Note that not all enterprises are socially responsible; the ones that are, deliberately create jobs and value chain opportunities to benefit the society. Such a sharp and purposeful focus will guarantee the manifestation of the promise of the country".

What will "a government that fully supports and protects Socially Responsible Enterprises with ALL its resources" translate to? Here are a few possibilities:

1. Lower the regulatory and tax burdens on SREs with social contract performance proofs. In effect, this will confer advantages on businesses that operate this way, thus creating powerful incentives for others to follow suit.

2. ‎Setup an internal advocacy interface unit for SREs that helps them to cut through red tape quickly at all levels of government nationwide, backed by the highest authorities in each tier of government.

3. ‎Help to protectively promote their outputs locally and internationally, for example, with visible brand endorsements. Also, share their social contracts and proofs with all citizens to encourage patronage.

coldfire:


Lol. Was trying to use few words.

Too much grammar not too many words
Just meant most ppl won't understand you so inefficient delivery

Here's the longer version (note: you didn't quite get me as govts cannot provide jobs at scale - they are structured to operate inefficiently, so any enterprise they run to create jobs will die. Govts can only best provide platforms that encourage job creation by the private sector).

Aka deregulate
And get out of the way

LONGER VERSION:
Simply put, the Nigerian challenge is "selfish greed that pursues noninclusive success in a way that is collectively destructive".

Not greed
Deliberate sabotage and pull him down syndrome as they know no other way
Even the GSM were just lucky Thuraya didn't come first

What used to be "chop I chop" is even now "grab your own copy fast".

Same thing in my opinion

It creates a vicious cycle for the nation. Reversing it is straightforward if the challenge is well understood, but counterintuitive:

Why I, you are trying uneducate ourselves on said understanding cos we're up soon
Our set don reach

"Install a government that fully supports and protects ALL Socially Responsible Enterprises with ALL of its resources (while also holding each one accountable for their social contracts).

Yes but who will do the installation
Nobody wan enter politics
At least none that wants development

Note that not all enterprises are socially responsible;

Example cos I don't agree

the ones that are, deliberately create jobs and value chain opportunities to benefit the society.

All enterprises create jobs

Such a sharp and purposeful focus will guarantee the manifestation of the promise of the country".

It is this lack of will that is the issue
refusal to do what must be done

The outcomes will be employment, inclusiveness, ethnicity transcendence, meritocracy, brotherly love. With these, mass prosperity is inevitable.

[/quote]


[quote]

MIKOLOWISKA:
why because they make noise the way Ben Bruce and shehu sani did?
If they can't fix things at Lowe's levels they can't do shit as presents

I am not picking them for the post of president but part of the country's leadership set up. Prof Pat Utomi doesnt make noise, Falana doing his work

DreamSonInlaw:


I am not picking them for the post of president but part of the country's leadership set up. Prof Pat Utomi doesnt make noise, Falana doing his work

pat is a noisemaker. I used to believe in him till I realised he failed as minister, as head of either Peugeot or Volkswagen and as bank phb chair. Guy is all hat and no cattle
Nigeria needs more than theory