Ytea:
Boy: I feel there's a girl hidden in me, I need to get her out and be myself. Chai, the person that first thought of this thing is a bad person, the whole idea sucks. So a guy can travel for two years now, and come back to meet his girlfriend forming Mr Macho.

tintingz:
OP have you heard of gender dysphoria?

Most transgenders are having this condition, I don't really fault those that decide to change gender.

- Causes: Biological (as suggested).

- Treatment: psychotherapy, hormone therapy, surgery etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

joseph1013:
A discussion on Bruce Jenner Transgenderism

I feel compelled to respond to the comments I have read on Bruce Jenner and his gender re-assignment treatment. Some of the comments are absolutely hateful, judgemental and nauseatingly ignorant. No wonder that transgender people are believed to have higher than average suicide rates. But here is the irony - the most toxic comments I have read have come from Christians, the same people who ask for respect for their beliefs all the time, and to whom the bible says "don't judge".

Most of those who condemn transgender-ism do not know anything about the condition. Nor do they know the degree of emotional/psychological stress that transgender people endure on a daily basis. I don't understand transgender-ism or how it comes about or the best way to treat it. I don't know if gender reassignment surgery is necessarily the right treatment for the condition. But I will not complicate life for transgender individuals by denigrating them and suggesting that they are corrupting their bodies when they seek a way to manage their problems.

The issue to me is not whether gender re-assignment surgery will convert a man to a "real woman". I do not believe that this is physically possible. The issue is whether the treatment can alleviate suffering. Or should we let these people commit suicide because the treatment they seek does not conform to your moral code? Why do you talk down an intervention that has helped SOME transgender people when you yourself know of no better treatment or a cure for the condition? How is it your place to judge how others must live their lives? How do you not see that your attitude and comments hurt other people so much? Why not live, and let live?

Maybe this real life encounter from a medical doctor friend will help to soften some minds:

When I was a 'fundamentalist' Christian, I was anti-gay.

In medical school I learnt 'theory', but it was in 500L when I came face-to-face with a 33-yr old male pseudo-hermaphrodite in Ogbomosho, that I got the jolt of my life, because there was absolutely nothing we could do for him/her in that village setting.

Dressed in maxi-dress and head-tie, with earrings, and s/he genuflected when s/he walked in, said, "e kaaro sir", and the deep bass voice almost threw me off my seat!
S/he was huge but not muscular, no breasts or bum, s/he had a tiny blind-ending vagina, no womb, no ovaries; had testes in the abdomen.
S/he had been socialised as a female all his/her life, and though it was a Baptist Hospital, religious considerations were the last thing on our minds!

We just did repeated bouginage (expansion/elongation) of the vagina, so that someday, if lucky, it might be wide and deep enough to accommodate a small penis, so s/he can have sex and feel 'normal' (you can only imagine the stigma in a village setting, his/her chances are zero, I didn't envisage a happy ending). S/he was also planned for surgery to remove the testes (to reduce the testosterone and also the cancer risk). That was back in 1999 (no access to high-fallutin technology), by now s/he would be about 50yrs old and I have often wondered what became of him/her (I hope not suicide).

Since then I have seen various variants, especially in psychiatry, where you are often expected to help sort out the psychosocial issues, non-judgmentally.

The reason they are lumped together as LGBTQIA, is that, they are all related, the issues are the same.

I must confess I still cringe (in my mind only) with disgust, but, I think, with experience over the years, I am getting better at keeping it under control. I feel a lot of empathy, and try to contribute the little help I can.

If you had met this Ogbomosho wo/man on the road, wouldn't you be asking why 'he' is dressed as a woman and behaving like one, in spite of 'his' 'strong face', large Adam's apple, deep bass voice, no breasts, no bum? You might even condemn 'him' in your mind, or to 'his' face, simply because you don't know the whole story. Newsflash: 'she' actually believes 'she' is female, and so did 'her' parents who raised 'her' up as one. What's 'her' gender identity? Female! This is in spite of having XY chromosomes, having testes and high levels of testosterone! What's her sexual orientation? Clue - can be homosexual, bisexual or asexual... anything BUT heterosexual; whose fault would that be?

You as a man, would you marry this 'woman', knowing:
- her voice is a deeper bass than yours
- she has no breasts or bum
- she has no curves, and her face 'strong pass your own'.
- she has no womb, no ovaries, so would never conceive
- she is XY like you, and has testes like you
- you can't have sex with her because her vagina is like that of a new-born baby - would not even admit the tip of your little finger

Assuming she decides to move to a different town where she is unknown, and start dressing and behaving like a man, you as a woman, would you marry this 'man', knowing:
- he has no penis, instead, he has a vagina like yours
- his testes are in his abdomen, and are very unlikely to produce sperms, but more likely to become cancerous
- he still knows deep down, that he is a woman, despite the outward appearance of a man

Ok, now that nobody has agreed to marry him/her, are you now suggesting s/he should remain single all her life, shouldn't love and be loved, shouldn't have oral or anal sex with a woman or a man, shouldn't dream of having children by IVF or adoption, etc?

Should s/he just ignore all attractions, emotions and sexual drives, move into a convent or monastery (even if she has no interest in Catholicism) and remain celibate till death?

Would you call him/her mentally disordered because s/he would not have a stable or straight-forward gender and sexual identity and orientation ( let's face it: whichever one s/he is inclined towards would be the wrong one!)

Is s/he likely to face a tumultuous life, whichever direction she goes?
Is s/he likely to develop a mental illness due to all these pressures?

Would it be fair for you to stigmatise this unfortunate wo/man, condemn and persecute him/her simply because s/he doesn't fit into your neat male/female categories, or because s/he explores sexuality in a different way than what your scriptures dictate?

This is not a hypothetical scenario, we are talking about a real human being with real problems, that have no straight-forward answers, due to no direct fault of his/hers. Now you know this one' s story, so you might be more understanding, but do you ever attempt to know the whole stories of all those people you are condemning?

Don't be quick to condemn what you know absolutely nothing about. These people need support and understanding, they have enough problems already, don't add more to their burdens.

The best you can do is do your own research and understand it more, and since you can't help them, why not just let them be?

budaatum:

I'd heard of it but thanks for the education.

So, I'm in Nigeria. Ma and pa are struggling to pay school fees for my siblings and I. Then one day I tell ma that I was born with a dog, but I should have had a kitten.

Ma looks at me. Says gently, "that's easily rectified. Show me your dog" .

I pull down my trousers and she grabs a knife off the kitchen table.

That's the point I run out the kitchen. "Come back son", ma calls. "I'd be much gentler than your pa". And I knew she would!

Personally, I think it's a condition called "too much money, not enough sense". By the time pa's done with me, I'd wish I was dead!

tintingz:
OP have you heard of gender dysphoria?

Most transgenders are having this condition, I don't really fault those that decide to change gender. And the fact that its not being treated as such is depressing to reason.

- Causes: Biological (as suggested).

- Treatment: psychotherapy, hormone therapy, surgery etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

JeromeBlack:
I believe that full grown adults have the right to do what they want to do with their bodies.

However, children and teens should never be encouraged for such surgeries. They should wait till they are older.

budaatum:

I'd heard of it but thanks for the education.

So, I'm in Nigeria. Ma and pa are struggling to pay school fees for my siblings and I. Then one day I tell ma that I was born with a dog, but I should have had a kitten.

Ma looks at me. Says gently, "that's easily rectified. Show me your dog" .

I pull down my trousers and she grabs a knife off the kitchen table.

That's the point I run out the kitchen. "Come back son", ma calls. "I'd be much gentler than your pa". And I knew she would!

Personally, I think it's a condition called "too much money, not enough sense". By the time pa's done with me, I'd wish I was dead!

CAPSLOCKED:

JUST THOUGHT I SHOULD LEAVE THIS HERE.

tintingz:
Lol funny. I don't really know about the condition of humans having strong feelings of not being a human.

But the one for transgender is a real condition, gender dysphoria is said to be biological,

62% heritage with genetic influence,

most people with this condition face depression because of how the society neglect them, I know some are just faking it probably to create attention.

I used to be disgusted by transgenders and have this hate feeling towards them,

it was around two years ago I came across a transgender(female to male) video on Facebook, every hate feelings I've for transgenders fade off that moment, I heard about gender dysphoria, did research on it and the surprising things was most comments (probably Americans) applaud her courage.

johnydon22:
The cause is more likely psychological in the case of individuals.

I opened the link and the first statement was "Gender dysphoria (GD), or gender identity disorder (GID), is the distress a person experiences as a result of the sex and gender they were assigned at birth"

This statement is scientifically incorrect and is no less than extreme left absurdity being peddled in stiff consonance or manipulation of scientific data.

Why the statement is wrong:

Sex is not assigned to anyone at birth, human sex is determined right during conception once the cells fuse to form a zygote.

That article started off a wrong premise and just tell me how correct can it get when the fundamental premise is incorrect?

JeromeBlack:
I believe that full grown adults have the right to do what they want to do with their bodies.

However, children and teens should never be encouraged for such surgeries. They should wait till they are older.

tintingz:
Psychological, biological these are still suggestions.

Here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment

I'm not a scientist wether sex is assign at birth or not is not the case here, this does not negate the study and condition of gender dysphoria.

Gender dysphoria occurs when there is a persistent sense of mismatch between one’s experienced gender and assigned gender.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/conditions/gender-dysphoria

Biological sex is assigned at birth, depending on the appearance of the genitals. Gender identity is the gender that a person "identifies" with or feels themselves to be.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

Gender dysphoria involves a conflict between a person's physical or assigned gender and the gender with which he/she/they identify.
https://www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria

johnydon22:
Today, you can walk into a clinic and surgically have your appearance or sexual make-up changed to whatever you want it to be.

This is an almost normalized aspect of the 21st century world and have generated mixed feelings and different sides of argument for or against that idea both from a religious, moral, psychological or scientific point of view.

Let us debate on this trend.

What do you think of the transgender argument?

N.B: I happen to think its absurd and a gross glorification of insanity.

We can challenge each others views.

HajimeSaito:






(CNSNews.com) -- Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.

Dr. McHugh, the author of six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed medical articles, made his remarks in a recent commentary in the Wall Street Journal, where he explained that transgender surgery is not the solution for people who suffer a “disorder of ‘assumption’” – the notion that their maleness or femaleness is different than what nature assigned to them biologically.

He also reported on a new study showing that the suicide rate among transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher than the suicide rate among non-transgender people. Dr. McHugh further noted studies from Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic of children who had expressed transgender feelings but for whom, over time, 70%-80% “spontaneously lost those feelings.”



While liberal politicians, Hollywood, and major media such as Time magazine promote transgenderism as normal, said Dr. McHugh, these “policy makers and the media are doing no favors either to the public or the transgendered by treating their confusions as a right in need of defending rather than as a mental disorder that deserves understanding, treatment and prevention.”

“This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken – it does not correspond with physical reality. The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.”

The transgendered person’s disorder, said Dr. McHugh, is in the person’s “assumption” that they are different than the physical reality of their body, their maleness or femaleness, as assigned by nature. It is a disorder similar to a “dangerously thin” person suffering anorexia who looks in the mirror and thinks they are “overweight,” said McHugh.

This assumption, that one’s gender is only in the mind regardless of anatomical reality, has led some transgendered people to push for social acceptance and affirmation of their own subjective “personal truth,” said Dr. McHugh. As a result, some states – California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts – have passed laws barring psychiatrists, “even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor,” he said.

The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time. Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”

“And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a ‘satisfied’ but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs,” said Dr. McHugh.

The former Johns Hopkins chief of psychiatry also warned against enabling or encouraging certain subgroups of the transgendered, such as young people “susceptible to suggestion from ‘everything is normal’ sex education,” and the schools’ “diversity counselors” who, like “cult leaders,” may “encourage these young people to distance themselves from their families and offer advice on rebutting arguments against having transgender surgery.”

Dr. McHugh also reported that there are “misguided doctors” who, working with very young children who seem to imitate the opposite sex, will administer “puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous – even though the drugs stunt the children’s growth and risk causing sterility.”

Such action comes “close to child abuse,” said Dr. McHugh, given that close to 80% of those kids will “abandon their confusion and grow naturally into adult life if untreated ….”

“’Sex change’ is biologically impossible,” said McHugh. “People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.”

ns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

johnydon22:
What would you say in such a case?

This statement is incorrect

Apart from Intersex which is in fact a sex development disorder. transgender condition is not biological but mental.

Sex is biological, identity is psychological.

identity alterations are more likely social and mentally caused.

I don't. I only understand the social conditioning going on. it is not normal for anyone to wake up and says he identifies as a dog which in fact is a thing lycanthropy.

if we classify this as a mental delusion, how come no one classifies waking up one morning and deciding you are no longer a man but a woman same?

Think about that?

Applauded her courage, would they applaud the courage of a lycanthropy or would they agree he/she is mentally deluded?

Sex is strictly biological and not a matter of identity.

identity however is mental and can either be wrong or right.

However we diagnose every factually wrong identity as a psychological anomaly, all except the transgender identity. If this is not a gross (cherrypicked) normalization of an obvious problem then i don't think there is such a thing as mental delusion at all.

tintingz:
Take the child to a psychologist if he/she persist in saying such.

I don't want the situation where my child is down with depression.

Study suggest it's psychological, biological, maybe you should provide source where it says no biological causes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

Lycanthropy is more like when someone feel like he's turning to an animal or has turn to an animal, this is consider a psychosis by scientists, there is no much study on it as it is a very rare case.

As for transgender, it's also consider a mental disorder until recently WHO declared it's no longer a mental disorder, it's has been very well studied and most studies are Biological.

These are different cases!

Kindly provide source where it says transgender has no biological causes/influence.

johnydon22:
Identity is psychological sir.

Again, sex is not assigned at birth, sex is biologically determined by the chromosomes.

You may say that there are people having these issues of gender identity disorder and that is true but suggesting sex is assigned at birth is very wrong and a direct opposite of the scientific position.

if you base your argument on the premise of "assigned sex" then i'm sorry your argument is inherently flawed.

Which is in fact an identity problem thus psychological.

Genitals do not appear at birth, that statement is an oversimplification as saying the sun rises from the east. factually it is wrong.

Sex is not assigned at birth, sex is determined at conception.

Hence an identity problem not a sexual one

tintingz:
Transgender is beyond identity, it also has biological causes, I've provided like four sources.

This is more like the use of words, I'm not a scientist, those who are in clinical field should explain this,

Sex assignment (sometimes known as gender assignment) is the determination of an infant's sex at birth. In the majority of births, a relative, midwife, nurse or physician inspects the Instruments when the baby is delivered, and sex and gender are assigned, without the expectation of ambiguity. Assignment may also be done prior to birth through prenatal sex discernment.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_assignment

So also biological.

Ok, I'm very sure those site cannot make such wrong statement.

Again sir, Gender dysphoria is beyond identity problem according to study.

johnydon22:
Actually they make progress with the help of psychotherapy.

You must first understand that identity is psychological and once it is factually incorrect, it is delusion.

I'd rather seek help that solves the problem with the variable of causality fully in consideration.

Like i said, apart from Intersex, sexual identity contradictions are psychological and have a social and mental causality.

You don't even understand the point. Identity and biology are not the same but once they contradict, delusion is in full effect.

A black identifying as caucasian is not biological, it is strictly mental.

alternate animal with gender and you will get the picture.

Over the past several years, a range of civil society organizations as well as the governments of several Member States and the European Union Parliament have urged the WHO to remove categories related to transgender identity from its classification of mental disorders in the ICD‐1151, 52, 53.

One impetus for this advocacy has been an objection to the stigmatization that accompanies the designation of any condition as a mental disorder in many cultures and countries. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5032510/

Peered reviewed article from the from the The National Center for Biotechnology Information advances science and health by providing access to biomedical and genomic information.

The omission is a politically influenced act not a scientific one. Non-factual identity is still mental disorder in science, your reference is influenced by modern political motives. Get your facts right, the advocacy is from government and civil society organization which is aimed at combating stigma.

This is purely a political move.

Does it make a difference?

You have not quoted one that proposed such. Your sex assignment at birth i have shown to be grossly incorrect and consonant to science.

Your basic biology is source enough: seems like you have not been reading all i have been saying here.

Sex is strictly a chromosomal business at conception and is stamped on every cell in the body. It is either your are XY (male) or XX (female) there are conditions like XYX (intersex) which is a development disorder just like growing an extra limb.

Identity on the other hand is psychologically stimulated and can coincide with fact or not.

If a tall guy says i am short, it is not biological, it is mental.

if a male says i am female, it is also mental.

And by virtue of consonance to the fact, it is a mental delusion.

johnydon22:
Jesus christ, Wikipedia sources. Amazing.

Sex cannot be changed. Physical alterations do not edit chromosomes/genes which in fact determine sex.

It is just like Michael Jackson bleaching himself and using cosmetic surgery to appear caucasian. Race just like sex is also biological and cannot be cosmetically eroded. At the end of the day, Michael jackson is still a negro.

Identification and cosmetics do not influence biological composition.

The sun rises from the east.

I have a feeling that you have no idea what biological means because all you have been throwing out is sex assignment at birth which is laughable. You keep throwing the word biology without reference to sexual biology (chromosomal exchanges) Well, you probably don't understand the term biological.

Oh Jeez

ok

HajimeSaito:






(CNSNews.com) -- Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.

Dr. McHugh, the author of six books and at least 125 peer-reviewed medical articles, made his remarks in a recent commentary in the Wall Street Journal, where he explained that transgender surgery is not the solution for people who suffer a “disorder of ‘assumption’” – the notion that their maleness or femaleness is different than what nature assigned to them biologically.

He also reported on a new study showing that the suicide rate among transgendered people who had reassignment surgery is 20 times higher than the suicide rate among non-transgender people. Dr. McHugh further noted studies from Vanderbilt University and London’s Portman Clinic of children who had expressed transgender feelings but for whom, over time, 70%-80% “spontaneously lost those feelings.”



While liberal politicians, Hollywood, and major media such as Time magazine promote transgenderism as normal, said Dr. McHugh, these “policy makers and the media are doing no favors either to the public or the transgendered by treating their confusions as a right in need of defending rather than as a mental disorder that deserves understanding, treatment and prevention.”

“This intensely felt sense of being transgendered constitutes a mental disorder in two respects. The first is that the idea of sex misalignment is simply mistaken – it does not correspond with physical reality. The second is that it can lead to grim psychological outcomes.”

The transgendered person’s disorder, said Dr. McHugh, is in the person’s “assumption” that they are different than the physical reality of their body, their maleness or femaleness, as assigned by nature. It is a disorder similar to a “dangerously thin” person suffering anorexia who looks in the mirror and thinks they are “overweight,” said McHugh.

This assumption, that one’s gender is only in the mind regardless of anatomical reality, has led some transgendered people to push for social acceptance and affirmation of their own subjective “personal truth,” said Dr. McHugh. As a result, some states – California, New Jersey, and Massachusetts – have passed laws barring psychiatrists, “even with parental permission, from striving to restore natural gender feelings to a transgender minor,” he said.

The pro-transgender advocates do not want to know, said McHugh, that studies show between 70% and 80% of children who express transgender feelings “spontaneously lose those feelings” over time. Also, for those who had sexual reassignment surgery, most said they were “satisfied” with the operation “but their subsequent psycho-social adjustments were no better than those who didn’t have the surgery.”

“And so at Hopkins we stopped doing sex-reassignment surgery, since producing a ‘satisfied’ but still troubled patient seemed an inadequate reason for surgically amputating normal organs,” said Dr. McHugh.

The former Johns Hopkins chief of psychiatry also warned against enabling or encouraging certain subgroups of the transgendered, such as young people “susceptible to suggestion from ‘everything is normal’ sex education,” and the schools’ “diversity counselors” who, like “cult leaders,” may “encourage these young people to distance themselves from their families and offer advice on rebutting arguments against having transgender surgery.”

Dr. McHugh also reported that there are “misguided doctors” who, working with very young children who seem to imitate the opposite sex, will administer “puberty-delaying hormones to render later sex-change surgeries less onerous – even though the drugs stunt the children’s growth and risk causing sterility.”

Such action comes “close to child abuse,” said Dr. McHugh, given that close to 80% of those kids will “abandon their confusion and grow naturally into adult life if untreated ….”

“’Sex change’ is biologically impossible,” said McHugh. “People who undergo sex-reassignment surgery do not change from men to women or vice versa. Rather, they become feminized men or masculinized women. Claiming that this is civil-rights matter and encouraging surgical intervention is in reality to collaborate with and promote a mental disorder.”

ns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

tintingz:
Ok

Ok

Again, transgender is a different case here,

The causes of transsexualism have been studied for decades.
The most studied factors are biological.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_transsexuality

Gender dysphoria itself is not a mental disorder, it's the distress that comes with it, the reason it's term mental disorder, WHO that declared it mental disorder in the past has withdraw it as to make trans people feel no stigmatized and distressed.

The American Psychiatric Association, publisher of the DSM-5, states that "gender nonconformity is not in itself a mental disorder. The critical element of gender dysphoria is the presence of clinically significant distress associated with the condition."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_dysphoria

Yeap
So when it comes to the gene, brain structure it is?

tintingz:
Is this not the same Dr. McHugh a Catholic that defend abusive priests that sexually abuse children?

tintingz:
Not only Wikipedia source oga.

Study found it's biological, I'm not scientists but my claims are simply base on studies.

[i]Gender development is complex and there are many possible variations that cause a mismatch between a person’s biological sex and their gender identity, making the exact cause of gender dysphoria unclear.

Occasionally, the hormones that trigger the development of biological sex may not work properly on the brain, reproductive organs and genitals, causing differences between them. This may be caused by:

- additional hormones in the mother’s system – possibly as a result of taking medication.

- the foetus’ insensitivity to the hormones, known as androgen insensitivity syndrome (AIS) – when this happens, gender dysphoria may be caused by hormones not working properly in the womb

congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) – where a high level of male hormones are produced in a female foetus. This causes the genitals to become more male in appearance and, in some cases, the baby may be thought to be biologically male when she is born.

I'm not a scientist, I'm simply saying what studies provided.

festwiz:
I have nothing against trans folks. They have as much rights as you and I. What they've decided to do with their body et gender should not be a topic of discussion IMO.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_Sahhara