durodee:
I have often wondered why we have not being seeing your posts . We missed you and you missed some skirmishes here.

Missed you too bro. Just a few more weeks and I'll be a regular here once more, D.V.

bassdow:


FUNNY enough, I took no offence in what you said or didn't.
When I am in here, na to deStress maself. Moreover no be everyBody get strength to vex.

My response was more like You understood me, YET probably pretending you didn't so I speak further, BUT you forget say food don cost, so we dey talk small small nowAdays so as to conserve energy.

As for all the grammar and formular you write above, if we begin do like that, mean say we don forget say no be everyBody sabi reach such level.

For here, I prefer writing in ways even the DUMB ones among us, expecially us wey go backYard college, go grab.
if you begin state law, write formulars,, and speak big big gramar, most of us go loss.

Now all things bbeing SAME, it's much more efficient INVERTing from higher voltage, than from lower voltage hence 48-volts system is much efficient, than 24-volts system, and 12-volts system is more efficient than trying to BOOST from 5-Volts to say 240-Volts.

Word!

isangjohnson:

If I may ask, how do you recognize grade A cells?
Dubious cells sellers has taken advantage of people's ignorance in this field.
As for me, I don't usually ask for grade A cells because of the high price. I only request for quality cells from the company I used to buy from. Once I charge the cells at 1C up to about 70% before I throttled down, discharge at 1C down to 3.0v and see 0.03v to 0.04v voldiff, then the cells are quality ones for me.
From my personal experience, irrespective of how well one top balance defective or bad cells, charging and discharging will not gets to 1C before you start seeing voldiff of 0.20v to 0.30v

In truth, I don't have a readymade answer to that. I do know they don't often appear in the end-user market and as bassdow affirmed, they are typically incorporated into other consumer electronics. I do believe if a large enough number of us gather for a group buy (as done many times before), Grade-A cells won't be out of reach. My concern would be procurement costs and if the transfer of such costs would be competitive in the open market. I suspect that's why we don't routinely encounter them.

bassdow:


That ADVICE of yours might not always work, because not everyOne has got the quality of knowledge like you do. Plus it's not always gonna be same way. That it worked well for you that time, doesn't necessarily mean it would work same on next attempt.

You are quite correct.

bassdow:

Let's pretend YOU know EVERYthing of the underlying science and (as the public forum this is) you want to WASTE 
TIME OF the readers of this thread.

I apologise, if the science statement rubbed off you the wrong way. I come from all 3 backgrounds. I merely believe your readers come from all walks of life. This thread began as a way to be a compendium/resource for all things to support the FTA rave of the time. Along the way, it became about all things renewable energy and the FTA aspect was relegated to the background.

I'll simply state what I had in mind. Peukert's law. You were talking about power equivalents thus a comparison of 12V 400AH vs 24V 200AH vs 48V 100AH is apt, being the same stored energy quantity. I₁V₁ = I₂V₂ = I₃V₃. It means one could draw the same amount of energy at lower current, if you raise the nominal voltage. In practical applications, the amount of power each is capable of delivering differs, as energy drawn varies due to discharge inefficiencies (mostly as a result of the internal resistance of the batteries vis a vis a resultant heating too). As a result, higher voltage systems would often perform more efficiently, as the amount of energy drawn increases. In practice, the upper limit of continuous discharge in a 12V system is about 6kW, beyond which you stand a real risk of melting the battery terminals or creating weird fluxes in the electrolyte (if FLA). Most conventional chargers don't exceed 120A thus limiting charge to an 1.8kW max anyway.

The resistance of the cabling matters just as much. This is why cable diameter and transmission distance matter! Multi-stranded chosen as superior to single strand.

My intention was not to waste anyone's time.

bassdow:

That would depend on if were you in Science or Commercial or Art class While in SeniorSecondarySchool

Let's pretend I know nothing of the underlying science and (as the public forum this is) you want to educate the readers of this thread.

casualobserver:


True.

Interesting read that also shatters the misconception that testing for capacity is an indication of the quality of a cell.

A grade B cell can test for capacity and be dead in 3 years.

https://www.lifepo4-battery.com/News/EVE-GRADE-A.html

Interesting. However, I concur with your publications. I've been on this path for over 25 years so my tenure as "gateman of the technology corridors" has given me lots of exposure. I have a stack of BYD LiFePO4 batteries bought off an industrial setup which was written off as end-of-life; they were cycled heavily and at somewhat high temperatures. Grade A batteries however.

A few years down the line and they're undoubtedly the best cost per Watt investment I've ever made in my renewable energy journey. I bought 3 sets for 3 different homes and everyone wishes they'd bought more. Fridge, freezer and AC in my house are permanently on. Whenever you see Grade A cells, grab 'em! They're rarely advertised for long.

EDIT: I should mention I charge at 1C up to 70% then gradually throttle down as they approach full charge. Every 4 months, they sit at full charge for a few weeks (top balancing) then are cycled between 20% and 85%. They almost never fall below 40%, even when I cook for our mini-parties (I use induction cookers).

bassdow:


The higher the input voltage, the longer it would last on a charge.

in other words, 24volts 200AH inverter system would last longer than 12volts 200Ah inverter system; likewise, 48volts 200AH would last longer than both 12-volts and 24-volts 200Ah inverter systems.

in fact, if care isn't taken, a 24volts 150Ah inverter system might last longer than 12volts 200AH inverter system.

So the higer the input voltage, the more efficient the system would be, and the longer it would last on a charge.

Interesting assertions. I need to understand the science behind this.

casualobserver:


By that logic, all CATL cells on the market are grade B cells. The only way you can get a true grade A CATL cell is either in an EV or in a battery from a reputable battery manufacturer, in short there is no way for you and I or any Retailer to get his hands on a true grade A CATL cell. While it is true there are a lot of dodgy Eve cells on the market, you can get certified automotive grade Eve cells, you can even buy from Eve directly but ALL the CATL cells on the market are rejected cells. So I would say buying a CATL cell is perhaps more risky than buying an Eve cell because you know for certain it is a rejected cell..

If you read the solar forums and look at the places that have emerged as the source for reliable cells (including certified automotive grade) in their respective countries e.g Sunfunkits in the US, fogstar in the Uk, gobelpower in china, Nkon in the Netherlands, none of them stock or even advertise grade A CATL…because they aren’t available on the market. Of these the only ones who sell CATL clearly state they are grade B cells.


Once you are dealing with grade B which constitutes most of the batteries on the market, you are at the mercy of 1) quality of the cell, I.e you hope it is what they say it is 2) the cells match so they perform well together in a pack.

I would suggest that you disavow yourself of the notion that because the EVE market has been bastardized, CATLs on the market are any better.


As for the different battery choices,

That a battery contains a particular brand of cells does not mean they contain grade A of that brand. Felicity uses CATL for some of their LpBF batteries, so does this Nruit. However if you check the continuous and maximum discharge specs for CATL cells and compare them with that in the Felicity or Nruit battery, it is clear they both use Grade B cells, perhaps weak grade B. Whereas if you check the spec for Eve cells and check the specs for the Deye battery it would suggest the Deye battery contain grade A certified cells. TheDeye I checked has recommended continuous of .5 c , Maximum continuous charge of 1c and peak of 1.5c whereas the recommended and max continuous max charge for the Nruit is 0.5c or less which is usually a sign of lower grade cells.

I didn’t check the dryness but between the Deye and the Nruit, it’s a no brainer…for me.

1st pic Deye. 2nd and 3rd pics are the cells in the Nruit and what a grade A CATL 240 ah should be able to handle.

... assuming they're actually Grade B and not lower. Times are hard and we humans can be dubious in our dealings ...

kristien4:
Pls how many solar panels will this inverter require based on its specs. Its a 48v inverter connected to 4 200ah batteries.
3kva[2400w]
Max solar voltage 85v
Rated solar charger 100A
Maximum pv array power 4800w

It depends largely on your loads and required runtime (plus losses). Kindly give an estimate of 24 hour consumption, and if possible, peak loading.

By tomorrow, it would be two years since my last post here. Life happens but I'm back, better than ever. I see a lot has changed. That's the nature of the world. I've missed you all. Let's get back to business.

Knock, knock ...

Saipro:
Needed:
- a minimum of 5kVA hybrid PSW inverter with dual input of at least 350V per string. New or used.
- used 5kVA to 10kVA Victron inverters

Kindly reach me on O8O239O23O5 (calls/WhatsApp). Or drop your details here.

Still on the quest

Needed:
- a minimum of 5kVA hybrid PSW inverter with dual input of at least 350V per string. New or used.
- used 5kVA to 10kVA Victron inverters

Kindly reach me on O8O239O23O5 (calls/WhatsApp). Or drop your details here.

ojeysky:

The smile was mutual as I read through your post, especially when you term sharing lithium experience as glorification above other chemistries when people were very specific about LA. How a good LA will have any advantage over a good littium remains what I am yet to hear. Today my peak discharge was over 120A and charge over 100A on a 510AH battery bank, can you even do that with LA of same capacity without the voltage sagging below lvd.

However everyone to his own poison/food.

Peak discharge of about 130A at 52.7V translates to about 6.8kW. Is this your 8kW Deye at work?

obimind:

The future is now Sir. I am a living testimony that Lifepo4 is the sure way to go. I ventured into using inverter since 2013 though I added solar panels to my set up in 2015. I must confess that my major challenge all these years have been the early failure of my LA batteries. At a time I decided never to buy new batteries from Alaba bcus they don't exceed six months of usage before they pack up. I decided to start buying fairly used batteries that were put for auction by banks which never helped either but at least served slightly longer than the brand new deep cycle LA batteries. My turnaround in Renewable materialised when I reached out to EFURO who gave me a link to a guy who have been in this forum but on the quiet side. He is based in Lokoja (Kogi) state. His core is assembling and coupling of Lithium Ion and Lipo4 cells. To cut the long story short I was able to reach him on phone and we talked at length. After explaining my plights to him he assured me that if I can take a bold step by going lithium my story will change for the better. At first I thought it was just the usual market strategy which we Nigerians are used to but after due consultations with another guy that strictly sells lithium cells in Kano his name on this forum is (Tetralogyfallot) he sells lithium cells but does not build he still referred me to the Lokoja guy. That gave me the confidence to have a firm deal with him. All these are history right now bcus as I speak he was able to build a lifepo4 bank of 6,000 watts for me. Its been two months now since I started using that battery and I must confess that my experience at the performance of that battery has been amazing. I must emphasise that owing to the high cost of brand new lifepo4 cells I was not able to go for such. He rather coupled a grade B cells for me and attached a reliable BMS to it, but to my amazement that battery is performing way above my expectation. When he did a capacity test before sending the battery to my location I discovered that he was able to pull over 400 watts continiously for over 10 hours without the battery shuting down. He attached a battery meter to the battery which helped me and is still helping me to monitor the battery without stress.

This is very good! Reliable local assembly is what we've been looking forward to for so long. Kaduna. Jos. Now Lokoja.

I have client whom used Luminous VRLA for over 4 years with routine 50% or higher DoD. Prompt recharge though. Batteries are still in service but for 20% DoD over the past 2 years. That'll be 6 years altogether by December. Of course that's an aberration. Even I wouldn't use it as a benchmark. My own initial Trojan bank made 4 years easy but by being babysat more than a human baby.

I have LiFePO4 from 2010 which are still alive as we speak. Occasional returned to storage then intensive use again but they've been in active use no fewer than 5 years. I'm currently using 450AH 48V nominal of BYD LiFePO4. The performance is at great. The minimal voltage sag even under heavy discharge (I cannot exceed 100A discharge due to inverter limitations) is no less impressive. And even as GeorgeD1 has touted, it's the path to the future. Until it is usurped.

I still maintain my indispensable VRLA bank for abuse and stuff I wouldn't dare with the LiFePO4 for fear of having a cardiac arrest before dawn.

omotoda:
From my amateur knowledge, look for a charge controller, the typical PMW should do. Connect it to the battery and set the charge controller LVD to the desired voltage equivalent to 50% DOD.I think that should work. The charge controller will cut off load supply at the set voltage. The experts are here to advise professionally

Add
- suitable voltage and current ratings
- rated appropriately for dumping loads. You'd be amazed most do not permit dumping load at their rated performance capacity

Not to rain on your party. Just to highlight these before someone starts a solar flare (that's a pun). Jokes aside, equipment fires are never fun.

lexi28:
Guys, good day.
I need some info.
I read online that running an inverter aircon 24/7 at 25°c is more efficient and consumes less energy in the long term than running it on turbo mode for a few hours and switching to gen mode. I do not have the battery capacity to run this test 24/7, can you guys help out and run a 1hp inverter AC for 24/48hrs to compare kWh consumed @25°c vs gen/turbo modes? Anyone with substation capacity PV/battery bank should kindly assist with this small test.

1.5hp GenCool 2 running at 25°C after about an hour in my sitting room drops to about 300W. Amazing because the original GenCool has a minimum of around 600W operating power.

In real life terms, I can run two 1.5hp GenCool 2 all night and wake to more than 50% battery left. One of them no longer goes off. If energy generation/storage isn't an issue, leaving them on guarantees a room maintained permanently cool.

Turbo mode consumes (wastes) absurd amounts of power. I no longer use it. I do not recommend it either unless you're at immediate risk of a heatstroke.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
You might consider a Raspberry Pi and install the Victron Venus OS on it. That should give you all the functionality at a fraction of the cost.

With a Pi you also get ease of integration with your home automation.

Be ready to get hands on to get all to work seamlessly.

And here's the DIY option. Cheapest and most fun. Hardest to implement but way more flexible. Be the lord of your own setup. You would still need Victron USB cables (the DIY cables are often unreliable).

olopan:
I understand you are trying to cut cost and all but have you tried saving up for the GX devices, a VENUS with no display will go a long way especially forbyour home automation, the options you mentioned earlier will only give a temporary solution

As an option, the Cerbo GX has multiple connectivity options out of the box, serves just as well as the Venus GX and is powered by a higher capability CPU. There's also the Octo GX

Saipro:
I need paired JST-XH connectors with pig tails/wires attached
- 7S (8-pin)
- 8S (9-pin)
- 9S (10-pin)

Kindly reach out to me on O8O 239O 23O5 (WhatsApp and calls)

Still in need

odimbannamdi:
Latest acquisition.

2 units of Fullriver 160ah Front Access Terminall (FAT) Lead acid.

120k each. Total of 240k.

Will be testing soon and updating the house.

Used the 175AH at a test site. Lovely batteries. Watch out for repeated deep discharges; shortens the cycle life dramatically.

I need paired JST-XH connectors with pig tails/wires attached
- 7S (8-pin)
- 8S (9-pin)
- 9S (10-pin)

Kindly reach out to me on O8O 239O 23O5 (WhatsApp and calls)

- lightly used Victron Color Control GX (CCGX) - ₦180,000 (4 units left)

- Victron Cerbo GX - ₦150,000

- Victron Color Control GX (CCGX) - ₦240,000

- Victron BlueSolar MPPT 150/60 - ₦235,000

- Victron BlueSolar MPPT 150/70 - ₦270,000

- Victron SmartSolar MPPT 150/60 - ₦270,000

- Victron SmartSolar MPPT 150/70 - ₦300,000

- Victron VE.Direct 375VA 48VDC inverter (ultra low idle consumption but without charger) - ₦60,000

- Victron MK3-to-USB for VE.Bus devices - ₦40,000

- Fangpusun display (for inverters and chargers) - ₦20,000

- Midnite SPD 300V ACM surge protector - ₦80,000

- Midnite SPD 300V AC surge protector - ₦50,000

- Midnite SPD 300V DC surge protector - ₦50,000

[s]- Midnite SPD 600V DC surge protector - ₦60,000[/s]

- Midnite MNPV8HV-DISCO 4X disconnect/combiner box - ₦360,000


- Solar disconnect switches

- MC4 connectors

- MC4 splitters/combiners

- Midnite 250 Classic KS


WhatsApp/Call O8O239O23O5

mcTrinity:
This is soooo wrongly wrong boss... The wrongness of this statement cannot be overemphasized!!! Lolzzz
On a lighter note...

For 4 years plus, my PV Array setup is split into two: East and West. Even with fridge, TV, fan ON, battery can still float around 6:10pm, depending on sun intensity of course. You can NEVER have that with South or North Orientation, irrespective of sun intensity

That Sunset charging is usually very advantageous...

I mostly split Arrays for clients into South and West; or East and West... Other times, I just allow everything on the south. But if I must split, West MUST be a consideration. In fact, I split because of that West Orientation; that sunset charging helps the battery a long way through the night. Only few times have I used South and North due to constraints

So, if you're going for single PV Array on one Orientation, definitely South is priority... If you're splitting into dual arrays, West Orientation is inevitable; i.e South & West or East & West.
Cheers

Edit: I see Oshomo12 and Dam5reey already reacted to that... Cheers

The Tropics are a wonderful place to be with regards to solar energy generation. South-facing panels anywhere between 5^o and 13^o inclination would give you the best of all worlds! if not for grime settling on the panels, laying them flat might be an all-around winner. Your points are however quite valid.

NiyiOmoIyunade:
Yes flooded batteries indeed exhibit lower voltage than other lead acid chemistries while at rest and at work.

However at 58v you are not charging your batteries to full. In general flooded batteries need to get to a minimum of about 14.6v per 12v battery i.e 58.4v for the battery pack. Ideally they should absorb at 14.7 to 14.8v per 12v battery which is a range of 58.8v to 59.2v for the battery pack.

Every month or so, you need to equalize the batteries and get them into the 15v per 12v battery range

It will be useful to read your battery data sheet (some info should be on the battery case) and adjust charging parameters accordingly if your inverter is capable.

If at any point in troubleshooting , the dealer swapped out or topped off electrolyte, then you are in a delicate place as they may have used too strong or too weak of a mix - an hydrometer is your best friend to know the SG and SoC of your batteries and inform your next steps.

Temperature monitoring is however crucial to their longevity. If your inverter/charger can to end-amps cut-off, the better

MontyNG:
Yeah I was doing that... But I can't imagine that will be good for the compressor. Did some research on it and these ACs have a "power down" routine which it wouldn't go through if you automate using the socket rather than remote.

I have something similar to the sensibo where I can switch on and off with IR and and change temp. But that didn't work well with the Hisense/LG ACs as there was no way for me to know the current state of the AC.

Works on LG GenCool 2 series

GeorgeD1:
https://guardian.ng/news/nigerians-to-pay-more-for-electricity/
There are indications that Nigerians will pay more for electricity starting from next week.

The development, already designed by the Nigerian Electricity Regulatory Commission (NERC) under the Service Based Tariff (SBT) programme will take effect from September first.

The brutality continues ...

Those of us whom invested in rather substantially sized PV arrays yet seemed extravagant (on meager wages) seem to be grinning from ear to ear these days. However, this spells untold hardship as a lot of the cost of manufacturing hinges on power utilization. What hope is left for the average person on the streets? Yet another increment looms even as the proposed one is yet to be implemented.

dlollyboi:

You'll need a computer and an rs232 cable

How does one revive a C8 Pro+ with these? Procedure please

efuro:
I once bought Schneider DC breakers from GUDU Electrical Market,
ALL of it were FAKED and disappointing... I have seen Chint products but have not used it
i hope it will not be same sad 'stories' we find in Nigerian Markets!

CHINT are as good as any Chinese brand you'll veer come across. I use CHINT and TOMZN extensively

CAROLYN19:
Call us for all Sizes ( 6KVA to 1000KVA) of Vertiv/Emerson/Liebert UPS

On a renewable energy platform, this could almost be considered a crime. Nice one nonetheless

ObabyObaby:
maybe the power wattage label in your equipment is not up to 100watts

Likely 100VA, not 100W of consumption. Not quite the same thing.