Alennsar:

The Qur'an was revealed as a sign for the wise and those who believe. He's not a Muslim, he's confused and he is looking for people who wish to join him.
If you don't open your mind to the truth then you will never be able to accept or acknowledge the truth.

How do you know he was not a Muslim?

fu91t1v3:
You seem to know more than the Muslims. Your thoughts couldn't take you to anywhere, so, you're looking for someone to take along. If the life in Paradise is nothing as you have thought, why don't you describe for us how you would like it to be?
If Paradise is not real, I believe you understand that death is real, what else is after death? Maybe that will solve your problem.

Can you proof if there's after death? Any evidence?

Kindly address the OP question, what are the ultimate purpose, meanings, goals, values in paradise?

Rashduct4luv:


This is the question you should ask yourself.

Can you still come back to Islam?

I don't know since Allah(if he exist) may have sealed my heart, hears, eyes from believing.

The concept of paradise sound enticing at first; living and enjoying for eternity but is it really a meaningful concept on a long run?

If you critically think deeply the idea of Muslims going to paradise to enjoy; having sex, drinking wine, milk and worshiping Allah for eternity leads to a purposeless, meaningless living and no values because there's "no ultimate purpose or goal", in fact it looks like a torture on it own.

Or maybe muslims should tell us that ultimate purpose, meanings, goals, values we can get living in paradise.

Rashduct4luv:


I think i have answered you before and there's no need stressing this further.
When the Prophet of Allah started calling his people to Islam, those that rejected him consistently will have such seals placed on them as a suitable recompense for their previous kufr and for their disbelieving in the Messengers by choice.

So they are being punished for their kufr which they choose themselves. They had the choice of believing in the messengers!

So there's no possible chance for them to believe?

sino:


Lol, save us from lies and dogma of religion cos we would regret such at what point?! Abeg educate us, is it when we die?!

When you were a Muslim, you called to believe in Allah and worship, now you call to the believe in nothing. Well, believe in nothing apparently doesn't have anything, and thus you have nothing to promote your unbelief with, you are stuck with bashing faith and those who believe. At the end of the day, your unbelief leads to nothing, pure emptiness! No value, totally nothing! The fact is, if you really have found something special (beneficial), you all would have moved on, you would rather be engaged in discussing this special thing, but you guys can't!

Wouldn't it be strange if a supposed wealthy individual keeps talking about poverty and when asked to give alternatives/solutions, he keeps bashing poverty (poverty na bastard) rather than talking about wealth creation?! If you are wise, you would know such a supposed wealthy person is a fraud! "Awon eyan hushpuppy!"

What or where does your beliefs leads to?

"It is He who has made you successors upon the earth. And whoever disbelieves - upon him will be [the consequence of] his disbelief. And the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them in the sight of their Lord except in hatred; and the disbelief of the disbelievers does not increase them except in loss." (Qur'an 35:39)

" Say, "Shall we invoke instead of Allah that which neither benefits us nor harms us and be turned back on our heels after Allah has guided us? [We would then be] like one whom the devils enticed [to wander] upon the earth confused, [while] he has companions inviting him to guidance, [calling], 'Come to us.' " Say, "Indeed, the guidance of Allah is the [only] guidance; and we have been commanded to submit to the Lord of the worlds." (Qur'an 6:71)

And Allah seal disbelievers from believing and so increases in their disbelieve just to punish them.

sino:
O ga o, after you guys have left Islam and disbelieved in God, you all still find a way to blame Islam and God that according to you doesn't exist, for all your disbeliefs?! Incredible!

You all will quote and quote to suit your confirmation bias...

When Muslims quote other verses that shows Allah's Mercy, and how eager to accept repentance of those who sincerely do, regardless of their atrocities, you would ignore, because you guys aren't ready for any useful discussion, but rather prove your disbeliefs!

You guys aren't being ingenious with all these your lamentations and rants about religion and God, same old stuff, it's so boring!

Allah guide those that seek for repentance and keep making others disbelieve just to punish them.

Xmuslim:


There is an hadith (reference on request) that says whoever Allah wish well, he made the understanding of Islam easy for him.

Does this mean that Allah does not wish some people well

Thousands of things is wrong with Islam wallai. I was very foolish to defend this religion for years

Spot on.

Someone has quoted out a similar verse from the Qur'an.

Allah is the one guiding people and making people go astray.

Allah is the one making people not to believe and even increase their disbelieve just to punish them eternally.

This all shows that Allah is just malevolent, he's the one planning everything, there's no freewill.

But then Muslims will find some ridiculous excuse for this.

Rashduct4luv,

What if Allah(if he exist) is the one blocking me from believing since he's the one blocking disbelievers from believing? Who's to be hold responsible?

Rashduct4luv:


So they were disbelievers in Allah (just like you) then Allah then set a seal on their heart. So what is the problem here?

“Allaah has set a seal upon their hearts because of their disbelief”
[al-Nisaa’ 4:155]

“So when they turned away (from the path of Allaah), Allaah turned their hearts away (from the Right Path)”
[al-Saff 61:5]

I just asked some questions in the OP, you should have go straight answering that instead of stressing me to quote out the verses. Xmuslim was right but then I've to grant his request. Anyways.

So how can they believe when he has set a seal on their heart, ear, eyes from believing?

If Allah truly want them saved why then he has to seal their heart from believing, a possibility in the future?

Isn't Allah infringing someone's freewill here by sealing/determine his disbelieve?

Xmuslim:
don't you know the verse exist. Reference is only important for two reasons
1. For academic purpose
2. For someone that doubt a claim.

If you know the verse exist, just defend it sir instead of asking for a reference

I have quoted it out for people that want to know.

He demanded for reference then he has to have it.

And it's funny how these statements started in the early beginning of the Qur'an. The writers actually played on people psychology(in case of people that disbelieve).

Rashduct4luv:


Can you quote the verse(s)?

Sura Baqarah.

1. Alif, Lam, Meem.

2. This is the Book in which there is no doubt, a guide for the righteous.

3. Those who believe in the unseen, and perform the prayers, and give from what We have provided for them.

4. And those who believe in what was revealed to you, and in what was revealed before you, and are certain of the Hereafter.

5. These are upon guidance from their Lord. These are the successful.

6. As for those who disbelieve—it is the same for them, whether you have warned them, or have not warned them—they do not believe.

7. God has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. They will have a severe torment.

8. Among the people are those who say, “We believe in God and in the Last Day,” but they are not believers.

9. They seek to deceive God and those who believe, but they deceive none but themselves, though they are not aware.

10. In their hearts is sickness, and God has increased their sickness. They will have a painful punishment because of their denial.

11. And when it is said to them, “Do not make trouble on earth,” they say, “We are only reformers.”

12. In fact, they are the troublemakers, but they are not aware.

13. And when it is said to them, “Believe as the people have believed,” they say, “Shall we believe as the fools have believed?” In fact, it is they who are the fools, but they do not know.

14. And when they come across those who believe, they say, “We believe”; but when they are alone with their devils, they say, “We are with you; we were only ridiculing.”

15. It is God who ridicules them, and leaves them bewildered in their transgression.

16. Those are they who have bartered error for guidance; but their trade does not profit them, and they are not guided.

17. Their likeness is that of a person who kindled a fire; when it illuminated all around him, God took away their light, and left them in darkness, unable to see.

18. Deaf, dumb, blind. They will not return.

Xmuslim:


Yes Allah did it. Infact there is an hadith in sahih buhari where Muhammad said this:

After the creation of Adam, Allah remove progeny from the right side and says they will end up in jannah, he remove others from his left and says they will end up in hell fire. I think (not sure) the hadith ended with and this act didn't bother Allah.

Some apologists justify this by saying that Allah already knew what people would do in their life time and thus, he knew those that would be righteous.

My question is, why didn't hadith specify this?. Why are we hearing it from Muslims?. Second question is why did Allah allows those people to commit crime that would end them in hell if he's indeed merciful.

Allah even says he created some people for hell. Wtf. Why is Allah that wicked (not a blasphemy but a fact). Do we look like a toy to him that he just created some of us for fire?

If Allah exist, he's malevolent.

The Qur'an said Allah set a seal on disbelievers not to believe, that no matter how you warn them or preach to them they won't believe, Allah even increases their disbelieve so that they will be punished.

This can be found in Sura Baqarah.

My questions are,

- Did Allah really wants people to be saved?

- If Allah sealed someone's heart not to believe, how then can he/she believe?

- Is there freewill here?

IMAliyu:

Usually feeling a disconnect from emotions could be a sign of depression, stress, or anxiety.

Kinda went through a similar thing back in secondary school and still have some of the residue of that to this day, like when I got the news when my grandfather passed away I couldn't feel anything (and I liked the man) and I just went back to sleep while everyone was trying to console each other, or when my best friend was having feats of paranoia and later hospitalised for cerebral malaria I still couldn't feel anything, don't get me wrong was I around for him, but my lack of reaction or emotion when I got the news disturbs me to this day.
I started wondering why, and thinking something is most definitely wrong.

Emotions on some level is what connects people and helps build relationships (On a biological level even kinda like the reason a mother doesn't abandon her infant no matter how annoying or demanding they can get, interestingly enough the evolutionary argument for why women are more compassionate than men). When you can't display any emotion people have a hard time relating with you or reading you and thus may call you non human. The reason psychopaths are dangerous is they can convincingly fake emotional expressions and have no ability for empathy.

There are people who can't express their emotions like wailing and crying like some people do but doesn't mean they don't have emotions, they mostly do it secretly. I don't think that's a psychological issue, it's just your own way of expressing your emotions.

A psychological issue is when one doesn't have any emotions at all e.g a sociopath, psychopath.

Xmuslim:


Yes the hadith does not make sense. As a former sunni Muslim, I was thought that Allah stays above the seventh heaven and his arsh is on water. Although, he is present everywhere with his knowledge. However, the hadith claims that he comes to the 1st heaven physically.

Concerning seven evens and seven earth. The interpretation of the early scholars before science is simple - 6 other skies similar to the one above us, but only the one above us contain stars. Infact, they believed the stars are attached to the sky because they thought the sky is a solid body. Also, they believed, there are 6 more earth below us.

It's the advent of science that lead today's scholar to different rẹ-interpretation. Muhammad himself will be surprised to hear all these re-interpretation.

Of course Muhammad and his people then thoughts the earth was flat with the way they narrated the world, many religions and cultures believed the earth was flat only some few people like the early Greek philosophers someone like Aristotle discovered it was spherical but most people don't believe them. Even Galileo was imprisoned by the church for saying the earth was not flat but move round the sun.

Muhammad(in Qur'an) said the heaven and Earth were together and separated. They actually believed there were no galaxies, planets, other solar systems.

Xmuslim:
you are entitled to your opinion.

Allah use our 24hrs to calculate fasting and many other thing, but when hadith fails, he doesn't use our 24hrs

So which time is he using when descending to lower earth in the last part of the night. Muhammad even said Allah leaves by fajr. So which time is he using . I'm sure you would observe nawafil and prayer during those time thinking Allah is listening to you at the lowest heaven. Common, this is too simple sir.

Now the flat earth argument I brought. The hadith would not have any problem if the earth is flat, because Allah would come and go by fajr as indicated in the hadith. But now that the earth is spherical, Allah will have to go to another country's lowest heaven once he finish with Nigeria, and this will repeat itself till eternity. Thus, Allah would be living in the lowest heaven forever. From Nigeria to Canada to USA to Jamaica to Italy and so on.

If you still don't get it, I'm sorry I can't explain more than this.

I would gladly accept defeat if I were you. But the difference between us is that you have accepted that every sahih hadith are from Muhammad and Muhammad can never make mistakes because he receives guidance from Allah. So I understand why you are fighting so hard to defend the undefendable error in the hadith. I wish you good luck sir

If I sound insultive forgive me pls. I don't mean it

Allah even created the world in 6 days like he was following a measured time. But Yeah he doesn't use time and not in a space.

I don't know how muslims don't see the absurdity and contradictions in their argument.

Xmuslim:
what you should think of is why would such a smart fellow drop the religion that he once defended. He love hell fire? Hell NO. HE MUST HAVE SEEN SOME SECRETS THAT YOU HAVE NOT SEEN

You even have time to respond to him.

IMAliyu:
2012 wow.

It's even embarrassing seeing this thread.

But I purposely leave them and keep using my monicker as my past evidence I was a Muslim apologist.

Hardebaryor:
wow. You were even a Muslim. What a sad loss!

Ehhyaa.

LabuleofNigeria:


The posts in the forwarded link gives a disclosure of a poor of Intelligent Quotient (IQ) from you.
Its either you dont understand English or you are begining to portray symptoms of brain hemorrhage (BH).
(no insults intended).

Please learn the differences and meaning of the terms; "verses" and "Qur'an"
"Verses" were not promised to be preserved. The "Qur'an" was promised to be preserved and so it is.

Smh!

Xmuslim:
Some Muslim scholars claim that the ayah of rajm (stoning) was abrogated in the text, but it is still applicable. This is a big joke.

Let's reason together

Why would Allah or Muhammad abrogated a verse and still tell us to enforce it. What's the essence of the abrogation.

Why not abrogated verses that are no more in use such as the drinking of bear verse.

The fact remains that the prophet companions were unable to compile everything they heard from Muhammad into the Qur'an that we have today due to one reason or the other

I've always known this and raised this issues in the past that the Qur'an wasn't preserved as claim by Muslims. The compiled one Muslims even read today is not totally original in what Muhammad even wrote.
https://www.nairaland.com/3678762/why-alis-compilation-quran-rejected

Yasir Qadhi is popular Muslim scholar admitted and said there are holes and problems with Qur'an preservation, that any students of Qur'an knows this. He said this in an interview with Muhammad Hijab.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d225z-Yn0vk