Yes, I am an atheist. Some people on this section already know that I was once drawn to Islam. I come from a christain background and after seeing the flaws of christianity, I dabbled in some islam. Unfortunately, I didnt find its arguments appealing after some research. Soon after leaving christianity, I had a muslim girlfriend but she failed in her efforts to convert me.


So I am here to give you a honest view of why I do not believe in Islam. These reasons are not to bash Islam. They are also very clear and not things that are subject to interpretation,


1) Hell

I ran away from christianity's notion of hell for unbelievers in Christ only to meet another version of hell in Islam. For me, hell does not make sense. Punishment must fit the crime. Man lives for an average of 70 years, why torture him for more than 70 years? Why must hell be eternal? Furthermore, why should the same punishment meted out to liars and murderers? They are not the same crime or sins. Remember that Ar-Rahim (Allah is the merciful) and Al Ald (the utterly just). Seriously, I am going to the same hell for squeezing my girlfriends breasts with war criminals, murderers and cocaine dealers?

Also, why should I accept that my relatives and ancestors are all going to hell because of their personal choices? Some people in my village rejected christianity and remained pagans and most rejected islam to accept christianity. Are they going to hell just because they rejected islam? What if they live good lives?


2) Halal Food
I am a spoilt child from a rich family. I grew up eating the things that I like and that affects me up until today. I dont eat a lot of vegetables and many other foods. Now how do I become a part of a religion that will limit my already limited choices of food? Do you know the painful thing? Vegetables are F****ing Halal

Furthermore, there is the edible worm that is a snack in my culture. Islam would make that haraam. This is hard to accept since people from my village live long and they have been eating such for many generations. It has little or no side effects.

3) Haraam relationships
Funny enough, this was the actual thing that turned me away from Islam. Not a logical reason but an emotional one . I received a lot of hate from my muslim girlfriend's family and some other muslims because I was not a muslim. My first muslim girlfriend (yes, I have had two ) was very close to me and I was even thinking about converting. The thing that put me off was the hostility- what matters more, the religion or the happiness and welfare of your daughter? Some of my cousins have married atheists and Jews and they had support from our family.

The Quranic law is clear; a muslim woman can not marry a non-muslim. While muslims can see this law as reasonable and good so that the children/wife do not become non-muslims, it is harsh and unreasonable to the mushrik/kaffir for 5 reasons;

a) It assumes that the woman is weak enough not to convert the husband or the children.
b) It assumes that the non-muslim man will force his religion on the muslim wife. If that is so, cant a muslim man do the same to his non-muslim wife?
c) It goes against the human rights of freedom of association. A woman can marry who ever she wants.


4) Muhammad
Muhammad was a wise man, no doubt. However, how am I supposed to learn about marriage from a man that had 12 wives? How many educated women would willingly be the 11th wife of a man today?

How am I supposed to learn how to be chaste from a man with 12 wives?
How am I to learn from a man whose lifestyle has no resemblance to modern lifestyle? What are Muhammad and his Quran going to teach me about the internet or toasting internet muslimahs like fellis ? How are we going to judge whether it is halal for me to play with my neice with a pig toy or a pig character in a video game?



I have other reasons but I wonder how one can overcome these reasons. I will reveal more reasons depending on the reception i get from this thread.


However, dont you think I have valid reasons?

MacDaddy01: Yes, I am an atheist. Some people on this section already know that I was once drawn to Islam. I come from a christain background and after seeing the flaws of christianity, I dabbled in some islam. Unfortunately, I didnt find its arguments appealing after some research. Soon after leaving christianity, I had a muslim girlfriend but she failed in her efforts to convert me.


So I am here to give you a honest view of why I do not believe in Islam. These reasons are not to bash Islam. They are also very clear and not things that are subject to interpretation,


1) Hell

I ran away from christianity's notion of hell for unbelievers in Christ only to meet another version of hell in Islam. For me, hell does not make sense. Punishment must fit the crime. Man lives for an average of 70 years, why torture him for more than 70 years? Why must hell be eternal? Furthermore, why should the same punishment meted out to liars and murderers? They are not the same crime or sins. Remember that Ar-Rahim (Allah is the merciful) and Al Ald (the utterly just). Seriously, I am going to the same hell for squeezing my girlfriends breasts with war criminals, murderers and cocaine dealers?

Also, why should I accept that my relatives and ancestors are all going to hell because of their personal choices? Some people in my village rejected christianity and remained pagans and most rejected islam to accept christianity. Are they going to hell just because they rejected islam? What if they live good lives?


2) Halal Food
I am a spoilt child from a rich family. I grew up eating the things that I like and that affects me up until today. I dont eat a lot of vegetables and many other foods. Now how do I become a part of a religion that will limit my already limited choices of food? Do you know the painful thing? Vegetables are F****ing Halal

Furthermore, there is the edible worm that is a snack in my culture. Islam would make that haraam. This is hard to accept since people from my village live long and they have been eating such for many generations. It has little or no side effects.

3) Haraam relationships
Funny enough, this was the actual thing that turned me away from Islam. Not a logical reason but an emotional one . I received a lot of hate from my muslim girlfriend's family and some other muslims because I was not a muslim. My first muslim girlfriend (yes, I have had two ) was very close to me and I was even thinking about converting. The thing that put me off was the hostility- what matters more, the religion or the happiness and welfare of your daughter? Some of my cousins have married atheists and Jews and they had support from our family.

The Quranic law is clear; a muslim woman can not marry a non-muslim. While muslims can see this law as reasonable and good so that the children/wife do not become non-muslims, it is harsh and unreasonable to the mushrik/kaffir for 5 reasons;

a) It assumes that the woman is weak enough not to convert the husband or the children.
b) It assumes that the non-muslim man will force his religion on the muslim wife. If that is so, cant a muslim man do the same to his non-muslim wife?
c) It goes against the human rights of freedom of association. A woman can marry who ever she wants.



However, dont you think I have valid reasons?

take each number of my reply to the correspondin reason number...
1. the punishment for every crime is not the same. A tip of this can be found in the Glorious Quran when Allah(swt) says in Quran 4 vs 145...''Indeed, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the
Fire - and never will you find for them a helper ''
......and also from The Hadith which states the punishment for the Prophets Uncle which is that all he would get is to wear the shoes from hell''
..... So My GOD ALLAH is just and there is none like HIM.


2. All what islam prohibits as regards food have been found to be truly harmful, you can do a little research to confirm these.
As regards your worm, Islam wont make it haram if it doesnt fall into the stated ones in Quran 5 vs 3 and some other places..
during the lifetime of the prophet, he was offered A lizard as a meal whe he visited a tribe, then he frowned..the companion with him asked that ''is it haram ?''..the prophet replied ''No, but it isnt part of my culture''..then the companion took the plate nearer and ate.


3. as regards the reasons you listed in the relationships. Lets be sincere, are these reasons not true ? And we can take instances from our immediate society.
a muslim is to abide by the rules of Islam therefore woman cant marry anybody she choses and same goes for the male too except what has been stated in the Sharia.


I hope I have the time .. I have to go now..but I'm sure there are ppl who can treat the issues better.

and No.. You dont have any valid reason...

^ These are not your problems; the main problem with you and many atheists, if you are honest with yourself is your refusal to accept that you have a master.... The refusal to be grateful... I have dealt with you enough times to know that even if all these concerns are addressed... You will still find a reason to reject... so i will leave just one reply.

The case of Halal food, Haram relationships are based on the conviction of the Muslim, that the Quran is the word of God and we submit to the instructions of God totally in it. As a text, the muslim is intellectually convinced that it is beyond the productive capacity of a Human. Read a good translation of the Quran with intellectual humility and you might come to the right conclusion and be guided. This is the best translation of the Quran, i have seen http://asadullahali.files./2010/09/the_quran.pdf

The prophet(Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him) was the one to whom the Quran was revealed, therefore He is the messenger of God. A cursory look at the life of the prophet by an honest observer could easily confirm this. His life was a miracle. No man in the history of Humanity has revolutionalised an entire region and changed the direction of the world at that time as Muhammad (Peace and Blessings of Allah be upon him). All within a period of 2 decades... That is unheard of in human civilisation... Starting from a single man in the desert of Arabia.

So Is Hell Just?

I will give you a detailed answer here, fortunately for you, i wrote this for someone who asked me outside Nairaland.

Now the Justice of Hell :
Is Hell just? Allah declares in the Quran that he will not be unjust...

Surah 22
10. [It will be said]: "This is because of the deeds which thy hands sent forth, for verily Allah is not unjust to His servants.

For fairness, four conditions must be satisfied,

i. The human must be aware of the gravity of his action to some extent.

ii. The human held accountable must be from their own choices.

iii. The humans agree to undertake the trial of fulfilling their purpose (this is not a necessary condition though)

iv. Mitigating circumstances should be taken into consideration. Like Allah says:

God does not burden any soul with more than it can bear: each gains whatever good it has done, and suffers its bad–‘ (Surah 2:286)

Lets address the issues one by one:

i. The human must be aware of the gravity of his action to some extent.

Allah says in the Quran:

“… And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning).” [al-Israa’ 17:15]

‘… Every time a group is cast therein [into Hell], its keeper will ask, “Did no warner come to you?” They will say, “Yes indeed; a warner did come to us, but we belied him and said: ‘Allaah never sent down anything (of revelation), you are only in great error.’”’

A person who has never heard of Islam or the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and who has never heard the message in its correct and true form, will not be punished by Allaah if he dies in a state of disbelief. If it were asked what his fate will be, the answer will be that Allaah will test him on the Day of Resurrection.

Everyone who hears the message of Islam in a sound and correct form (and rejects it), will have evidence aginst him. Whoever dies without having heard the message, or having heard it in a distorted form, then his case is in the hands of Allaah. Allaah knows best about His creation, and He will never treat anyone unfairly.

ii. We are held accountable for our choices:

Humans have the choice to do good or evil, Now, if we were compelled to do one or the other, that will be unfair...

iii. The humans agree to undertake the trial of fulfilling their purpose.

In the Quran, Mankind's ruh (usually translated as souls) had accepted the responsibility to fulfill his purpose before he was put on the earth and accepted its master.

We offered the Trust [Of reason and moral responsibility] to the heavens, the earth, and the mountains, yet they refused to undertake it and were afraid of it; mankind undertook it– they have always been inept and foolish. God will punish the hypocrites and the idolaters, both men and women, and turn with mercy to the believers, both men and women: God is most forgiving, most merciful. (Surah 33 72-73)

[Prophet], when your Lord took out the offspring from the loins of the Children of Adam and made them bear witness about themselves, He said, ‘Am I not your Lord?’ and they replied, ‘Yes, we bear witness.’ So you cannot say on the Day of Resurrection, ‘We were not aware of this,’ or, ‘It was our forefathers who, before us, ascribed partners to God, and we are only the descendants who came after them: will you destroy us because of falsehoods they invented?’ In this way We explain the messages, so that they may turn [to the right path]. (Surah 7: 172-174)

We have an innate disposition to God (Called the fitrah in Islam), that is why humans throughout history have almost always worshipped God or some kind of diety.

So mankind accepted the trust and therefore accepted the responsibility that came with it. Bliss in the case of obedience, Punishment in the case of disobedience.

iv. Mitigating circumstances:

What if you environment makes it difficult? we have our weaknesses as humans.. Allah shows his mercy:

Whoever has done a good deed will have it ten times to his credit, but whoever has done a bad deed will be repaid only with its equivalent– they will not be wronged. (Surah 6:160)

So every good deed we do is multiplied by 10 and our evil actions only get 1, according to the deed.

We are also told in the traditions that God would show 99 times more mercy to us on the day of resurrection that has ever existed in this world... Think of all the mercy that has existed in our world; in human and animal life... Allah would reward us according to the best of our deeds

Surah 29
7. Those who believe and work righteous deeds,- from them shall We blot out all evil [that may be] in them, and We shall reward them according to the best of their deeds.

In other traditions, we have stories where a man was forgiven all her sins because she gave water to a thirsty dog once..

We are not Independent creatures, Only the most defiantly disobedient are promised hell,

In light of all of this, It is just that Man is held accountable for his actions:

If one claims Hell is unjust, he must also accept that Paradise/eternal bliss is also unjust.

So is hell just?

Justice means giving to people what they deserve based upon what they have done. I.e their intrinsic value or the value of the actions they have done.

For instance: In our world, one who works hard in a job deserves payment and a baby is a vulnerable human that intrinsically deserves care and sustenance.Justice must involve giving to them what is deserved.

Why is there pleasure and pain in the afterlife? We will be held accountable for the adherence to our purpose given two sensations we understand and experience: Pain and pleasure.

Hell serves as

i. a recompense for bad actions
ii. a punishment for those who intrinsically deserve it

i. a recompense for bad actions

The Muslims traditions say that anyone with an atom weight of belief in his heart will be taken out of hell after punishment and only the most defiant will remain there.

Hence hell will be used to settle the balance of bad deeds which they incurred in this life. Unrepentant sinners would serve a term of punishment after which they will be admitted into paradise by the mercy of Allah.

So at some point, after serving their term, they are admitted to the paradise.

Now in Islam, every action is judged by what is intended (bukhari)

Sin therefore is the value of the intention behind an action not the action itself.

Also, the amount of time used to commit a sin does not show its value. For instance, i could inject a person with poison that kills him in 10 seconds... My action in that case does not deserve just a 10 second punishment... The significance of that action is much greater than the time it took...

Rejecting the right of someone is equal in degree to the right that was offended against.

For instance; If i lock someone up unjustly, i have impinged upon his rights. But if i kill that person that is a greater offense against his right...

God has the right to be worshipped alone because he is the infinite and unlimited creator.

To intend to associate partners to God is to intend to claim a limitation against his power and being. As ascribing equals to him will constitute a limit to his power.

Now tell me what do you think is the gravity of denigrating God from the infinite being to a finite one... What is the magnitude/ range between the finite and the infinite?

The gravity of this in the eyes of God is severe and extreme; It is so severe that it merits from God a perpetual punishment. Actually anything less than a perpetual punishment is unjust to God's right.

So you ask why should God punish unrepentant people who associate partners with God forever... The Question is Why should he not? Allah says in the Quran:

God does not forgive the joining of partners with Him: anything less than that He forgives to whoever He will, but anyone who joins partners with God has concocted a tremendous sin. (Surah 4:48)

If one dies without repenting from this sin, there is no hope for forgiveness in the afterlife.. The Quran affirms the magnitude of this sin...

ii. a punishment for those who intrinsically deserve it

Purpose is the measure of our intrinsic worth. If we go against our intrinsic purpose and become a rejector of God. Then we can be called intrinsically evil. The rejection of God by these people is perpetual and without end, so why shouldn't their recompense also be? Allah says in the Quran:

"If you could only see, when they are made to stand before the Fire, how they will say, ‘If only we could be sent back, we would not reject the revelations of our Lord, but be among the believers.’ No! The truth they used to hide will become all too clear to them. Even if they were brought back, they would only return to the very thing that was forbidden to them– they are such liars! ! (Surah 6 27-31)

Note that when they were faced with punishment they asked to be sent back but like Allah says; if they have been returned; they will do exactly the same thing again. These people would lie and disobey God again. They can not reform themselves. They would keep rejecting God because of their egos and the chance to do what they want in this world.

This will be the afterlife equivalent of letting out of prison an unreformed murderer... Therefore the punishment of Hell is Just....

In summary, i have demostrated why the people deserve to be held accountable for their crimes and why hell is Just rationally using islamic textual sources>>>

MacDaddy,

i am just going to offer you a piece of advice:if you are sincere insha'Allah by next year's fasting,you will be Muslim.

all the points you raised are trivial except for the question of hell fire.if you do a bit of research,you can get convincing answers.as for relationship of a muslim woman with a non-muslim man,it is not in the interest of Muslims for that to happen.you may feel it is unfair for you,but this law isnt meant to be fair to you regardless of the points or ideas you raise.the law may be unfair to you,but its objective for having it is perfectly fair for Muslims.

going to the subject of hell fire.firstly,as a Muslim myself i do not love seeing people suffer in anyway.that stems from my God-given humane feelings.the questions of hell fire can be misunderstood easily.as a Muslim first and foremost i believe Allah (swt) is merciful (al-rahman) and Just (al-Adl).in fact like i stated in another post,"al-adl al-ilahi" or divine justice is considered as one of the fundamental beliefs in Shia Islam as Tawhid (oneness of God) is considered also.if God is just and merciful,then He is the judge.so if no one deserve to be burning in hell fire then be assured no one would be there.and be rest assured that if anyone make it there,that person would be so evil that in fact would deserve more and that is the least punishment the merciful and just God is giving him.

the issue of hell fire in itself should be understood on its own.hell fire is a realm of existence on its own.you will not enter hell fire as the human being you are living on earth.that is evident in the Quran.Allah (swt) says their skins would be transformed and substituted to endure the heat.there you're experiencing such an environment,you're in an entirely different existence and you're transformed to live in it.for instance,if fishes can talk,i can tell them that i would punish a fish by bringing it out of water.that would definitely sound horrible to the fish.and the fish would think of death and the suffering before that.but in hell fire you will not think of death because you will be made to adapt into that environment and it becomes part of your being.the magnitude of the horror is purely from an earthly perspective even though hell fire isn't something to wish for regardless because we are created and meant to be as we presently are.so if the fish is told that it would be taken out of water and instead of gills it will be transformed into something else to adapt to the atmosphere,then that would become part of the fish's being.i hope you get what i am trying to explain.

as for halal foods,sometimes the food you eat also have spiritual implications.you become what you eat.even though you can cook pork well and make it safe for consumption,but i would not want to become a pig.you may say would i want to be a cow? well not and i wont become a cow,but there are many things about the pig for instance that isnt cool when compared to other animals.i am saying this aside from the health risks and effects.also,there are commands God have put in place to check us and test our obedience and sincerity.

dragnet:
take each number of my reply to the correspondin reason number...
1. the punishment for every crime is not the same. A tip of this can be found in the Glorious Quran when Allah(swt) says in Quran 4 vs 145...''Indeed, the hypocrites will be in the lowest depths of the
Fire - and never will you find for them a helper ''
......and also from The Hadith which states the punishment for the Prophets Uncle which is that all he would get is to wear the shoes from hell''
..... So My GOD ALLAH is just and there is none like HIM.

Wrong. Hell for the murderer is the same for the adulterer. The hyporicte and the muderer still end up in everlasting fire and so, there is no difference

dragnet:
2. All what islam prohibits as regards food have been found to be truly harmful, you can do a little research to confirm these.
As regards your worm, Islam wont make it haram if it doesnt fall into the stated ones in Quran 5 vs 3 and some other places..
during the lifetime of the prophet, he was offered A lizard as a meal whe he visited a tribe, then he frowned..the companion with him asked that ''is it haram ?''..the prophet replied ''No, but it isnt part of my culture''..then the companion took the plate nearer and ate.

Is pork more harmful than fish or beef?

dragnet:
3. as regards the reasons you listed in the relationships. Lets be sincere, are these reasons not true ? And we can take instances from our immediate society.
a muslim is to abide by the rules of Islam therefore woman cant marry anybody she choses and same goes for the male too except what has been stated in the Sharia.


I hope I have the time .. I have to go now..but I'm sure there are ppl who can treat the issues better.

So you accept breaking the human right of freedom of association?

tbaba1234: ^ These are not your problems; the main problem with you and many atheists, if you are honest with yourself is your refusal to accept that you have a master.... The refusal to be grateful... I have dealt with you enough times to know that even if all these concerns are addressed... You will still find a reason to reject... so i will leave just one reply.

Thanks for your reply but you seem doubtful that I would take you seriously?

Anyways, I hoped to get into a discussion with you.

LagosShia: MacDaddy,

i am just going to offer you a piece of advice:if you are sincere insha'Allah by next year's fasting,you will be Muslim.

all the points you raised are trivial except for the question of hell fire.if you do a bit of research,you can get convincing answers.as for relationship of a muslim woman with a non-muslim man,it is not in the interest of Muslims for that to happen.you may feel it is unfair for you,but this law isnt meant to be fair to you regardless of the points or ideas you raise.the law may be unfair to you,but its objective for having it is perfectly fair for Muslims.

going to the subject of hell fire.firstly,as a Muslim myself i do not love seeing people suffer in anyway.that stems from my God-given humane feelings.the questions of hell fire can be misunderstood easily.as a Muslim first and foremost i believe Allah (swt) is merciful (al-rahman) and Just (al-Adl).in fact like i stated in another post,"al-adl al-ilahi" or divine justice is considered as one of the fundamental beliefs in Shia Islam as Tawhid (oneness of God) is considered also.if God is just and merciful,then He is the judge.so if no one deserve to be burning in hell fire then be assured no one would be there.and be rest assured that if anyone make it there,that person would be so evil that in fact would deserve more and that is the least punishment the merciful and just God is giving him.

the issue of hell fire in itself should be understood on its own.hell fire is a realm of existence on its own.you will not enter hell fire as the human being you are living on earth.that is evident in the Quran.Allah (swt) says their skins would be transformed and substituted to endure the heat.there you're experiencing such an environment,you're in an entirely different existence and you're transformed to live in it.for instance,if fishes can talk,i can tell them that i would punish a fish by bringing it out of water.that would definitely sound horrible to the fish.and the fish would think of death and the suffering before that.but in hell fire you will not think of death because you will be made to adapt into that environment and it becomes part of your being.the magnitude of the horror is purely from an earthly perspective even though hell fire isn't something to wish for regardless because we are created and meant to be as we presently are.so if the fish is told that it would be taken out of water and instead of gills it will be transformed into something else to adapt to the atmosphere,then that would become part of the fish's being.i hope you get what i am trying to explain.

as for halal foods,sometimes the food you eat also have spiritual implications.you become what you eat.even though you can cook pork well and make it safe for consumption,but i would not want to become a pig.you may say would i want to be a cow? well not and i wont become a cow,but there are many things about the pig for instance that isnt cool when compared to other animals.i am saying this aside from the health risks and effects.also,there are commands God have put in place to check us and test our obedience and sincerity.

What?


Your answers are quite circular

-Hell; Godis just!
-Halal food; You might become a pig if you eat pork....spiritual punishment

Seriously? Are you kidding me?

MacDaddy01:



What?


Your answers are quite circular

-Hell; Godis just!
-Halal food; You might become a pig if you eat pork....spiritual punishment

Seriously? Are you kidding me?

read my post again.i know you can do better than this.

LagosShia:

read my post again.i know you can do better than this.

You lied about the skin of a person made to endure the heat of hell.


The Quran says that the skin will burn and regrow, only to be burnt again. This all happens while the believers in heaven watch gleefully

MacDaddy01:

You lied about the skin of a person made to endure the heat of hell.


The Quran says that the skin will burn and regrow, only to be burnt again. This all happens while the believers in heaven watch gleefully

It looks like you derive pleasure trying to discredit me by calling me a 'liar' often.

Anyways here is exactly what I stated:

"Allah (swt) says their skins would be transformed and substituted to endure the heat".

MacDaddy01:

Wrong. Hell for the murderer is the same for the adulterer. The hyporicte and the muderer still end up in everlasting fire and so, there is no difference



Is pork more harmful than fish or beef?








So you accept breaking the human right of freedom of association?

in as much as I'd have loved to converse further with you, I have reasons to believe that you arent being sincere with your questions. Else any reasonable being would have at least been able to see light in the replies given to your questions.
... Just another attention seeker
.... Mod kindly lock up the thread !

dragnet:
in as much as I'd have loved to converse further with you, I have reasons to believe that you arent being sincere with your questions. Else any reasonable being would have at least been able to see light in the replies given to your questions.
... Just another attention seeker
.... Mod kindly lock up the thread !

i could not have put it any better!

LagosShia:

It looks like you derive pleasure trying to discredit me by calling me a 'liar' often.

Anyways here is exactly what I stated:

"Allah (swt) says their skins would be transformed and substituted to endure the heat".

Unfortunately, the Quran says a different thing. It says that people like me shall taste the punishment well well!



[size=18pt]Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.
[/size]

dragnet:
in as much as I'd have loved to converse further with you, I have reasons to believe that you arent being sincere with your questions. Else any reasonable being would have at least been able to see light in the replies given to your questions.
... Just another attention seeker
.... Mod kindly lock up the thread !

Typical muslim bigotry. You cant convince me or use logic to defend your religion therefore I am being insincere and the moderator should lock this topic.


Bigot

MacDaddy01:


Unfortunately, the Quran says a different thing. It says that people like me shall taste the punishment well well!



Indeed, those who disbelieve in Our verses - We will drive them into a Fire. Every time their skins are roasted through We will replace them with other skins so they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted in Might and Wise.

so you think "transformed and substituted" is not the same as "roasted and replaced"?

MacDaddy01:

Typical muslim bigotry. You cant convince me or use logic to defend your religion therefore I am being insincere and the moderator should lock this topic.


Bigot

but why do you blame him or her?

i think dragnet is right because you always open threads pretending to be sincere and eventually only turn out to be the usual attention seeker.it seems you have no work to do and nothing serious to say than seeking attention and wasting people's time.

LagosShia:

so you think "transformed and substituted" is not the same as "roasted and replaced"?

"Transformed" does not mean "roasted"....sorry. Dont start lying here.


The Quran clearly says that I will feel the burning of my skin and after being burnt and new skin will appear for more burning.


Any book that makes a threat of violence to make its argument is not great in my opinion.

MacDaddy01:

"Transformed" does not mean "roasted"....sorry. Dont start lying here.


The Quran clearly says that I will feel the burning of my skin and after being burnt and new skin will appear for more burning.


Any book that makes a threat of violence to make its argument is not great in my opinion.

i would not argue on what i said.you cannot roast a skin and think that is not transforming it into something else.and you dont put new one and think that is not substitution.i know you have a thinking problem thus you accuse others of lying when you are slow to process info.

do you expect the Quran to promise criminals to live in snow-white antarctica?

LagosShia:

i would not argue on what i said.you cannot roast a skin and think that is not transforming it into something else.and you dont put new one and think that is not substitution.i know you have a thinking problem thus you accuse others of lying when you are slow to process info.

do you expect the Quran to promise criminals to live in snow-white antarctica?

What criminals? It says clearly that hell is for those who reject the revelation or Quran.

So, you think that it is okay for me to roast in hell? For my skin to burn and be replaced to burn even further?

MacDaddy01:
What criminals? It says clearly that hell is for those who reject the revelation or Quran.

can you tell us who were those who rejected the revelations of the Quran during its revelation?

now this is the same case of misinterpreting Quranic verses regarding jihad.we are not to fight except to defend ourselves.

those who rejected the verses of the Quran are also addressed as "criminals who rejected our signs".they are being judged not out of compulsion but out of what they have done in their hate and rejection for the Muslims and Islam.

now regarding others who have done no harm to Muslims and they disbelief out of their own capacity of knowledge and their sincere inability to believe,Allah (swt) will judge them.whoever disbelieves and whoever does wrong would be judged by Allah (swt).it is clearly stated in the Quran that "he who wills should believe and he who wills should disbelieve".eventually God will judge and punish and also forgive whoever He wills based on divine justice.

So, you think that it is okay for me to roast in hell? For my skin to burn and be replaced to burn even further?

well,i cannot judge you.

but i sincerely feel pity for you.you sound traumatized already.

LagosShia:

can you tell us who were those who rejected the revelations of the Quran during its revelation?

now this is the same case of misinterpreting Quranic verses regarding jihad.we are not to fight except to defend ourselves.

those who rejected the verses of the Quran are also addressed as "criminals who rejected our signs".they are being judged not out of compulsion but out of what they have done in their hate and rejection for the Muslims and Islam.

now regarding others who have done no harm to Muslims and they disbelief out of their own capacity of knowledge and their sincere inability to believe,Allah (swt) will judge them.whoever disbelieves and whoever does wrong would be judged by Allah (swt).it is clearly stated in the Quran that "he who wills should believe and he who wills should disbelieve".eventually God will judge and punish and also forgive whoever He wills based on divine justice.



well,i cannot judge you.

but i sincerely feel pity for you.you sound traumatized already.

I like how you dance around the issue but your interpretation is quite fake!


The preceeding verses of that Surah clearly talks about people who reject the Quran and not people who murder Muslims.



4;50 - people who lieabout Allah

4;51/52- people who allah has caused for believing in false objects of worship

MacDaddy01:




I like how you dance around the issue but your interpretation is quite fake!


The preceeding verses of that Surah clearly talks about people who reject the Quran and not people who murder Muslims.



4;50 - people who lieabout Allah

4;51/52- people who allah has caused for believing in false objects of worship

i am not denying that God will judge or punish people for disbelieving.

but the context of the verses must be respected too.those people being referred to oppressed and harmed the muslims.

you cannot say because verses say "fight the unbelievers",that means we should fight any unbeliever we see.the unbelievers in this context refer to those who were oppressors and that is made clear in many places.you are missing the message of the Quran.

as for unbelievers,we know those who dont believe in Islam are wrong.but we cannot judge them or sentence them to hell.every person is an individual case for God to judge.thats all i am saying.

LagosShia:

i am not denying that God will judge or punish people for disbelieving.

but the context of the verses must be respected too.those people being referred to oppressed and harmed the muslims.

you cannot say because verses say "fight the unbelievers",that means we should fight any unbeliever we see.the unbelievers in this context refer to those who were oppressors and that is made clear in many places.you are missing the message of the Quran.

as for unbelievers,we know those who dont believe in Islam are wrong.but we cannot judge them or sentence them to hell.every person is an individual case for God to judge.thats all i am saying.

No one is talking about the verses that say that you should smite unbelievers. Dont do any bait and switch.


The Quran is quite clear in the verse about this one. It is talking about people who reject the revelation. If we take your interpretation, then the whole Quran is meaningless because there is now no verse talking about people who only simply disbelieve in the Quran/Allah-

MacDaddy01:


No one is talking about the verses that say that you should smite unbelievers. Dont do any bait and switch.


The Quran is quite clear in the verse about this one. It is talking about people who reject the revelation. If we take your interpretation, then the whole Quran is meaningless because there is now no verse talking about people who only simply disbelieve in the Quran/Allah-

there are many verses even mentioning specific groups like christians and jews who do not believe and telling them God will judge between them all.

LagosShia:

there are many verses even mentioning specific groups like christians and jews who do not believe and telling them God will judge between them all.

okay

@poster. I only read your post and don't have time to follow the line of discussion and I know many will be trying to answer all that. That's futile! Let me tell you the truth many people answern u have failed to realize: u are not looking for God that's why you can't find Him, the Bible says that u can only find Him when u seek Him with all your heart. Its obvious your decisions are controlled by your libido. If u go after a christian girl, u profess u are looking for God, she jilts u and the next thing is go for a muslim girl and claim u found flaws with Christianity. The girls parents fails to oblige u and u say u are now an atheist. YOU ARE LOOKING FOR WOMEN NOT GOD! When u wake up in HELL, the reality of it will dawn on you- then there wld be nobody to argue with

ajoguegbe: @poster. I only read your post and don't have time to follow the line of discussion and I know many will be trying to answer all that. That's futile! Let me tell you the truth many people answern u have failed to realize: u are not looking for God that's why you can't find Him, the Bible says that u can only find Him when u seek Him with all your heart. Its obvious your decisions are controlled by your libido. If u go after a christian girl, u profess u are looking for God, she jilts u and the next thing is go for a muslim girl and claim u found flaws with Christianity. The girls parents fails to oblige u and u say u are now an atheist. YOU ARE LOOKING FOR WOMEN NOT GOD! When u wake up in HELL, the reality of it will dawn on you- then there wld be nobody to argue with

makes sense