Dear Nairalanders,

I'm so dissapointed at how remarks are being posted on this forum.It seems most members especially mr. (or is it Ms/Miss/Mrs) Osisi are "Islamphobic". His/Her constant uncomplimentary remarks & incessant attacks on the islamic ummah are outrageously offensive, or how does one correlate his frequent referall to muslims/Islam on negative issues,even d mundane ones.

I'm surprised that people at this develpomental stage of our dear nation could exhibit such religious bigotry,chauvinism & permit me,religious nepotism.

I believe we should all conciously channel our energy towards peaceful co-existence of all & sundry,rather than indulging in issues that further set us at each others' throats.

Irrespective of our faith inclinations, I think this is a wonderful prayer tract"

"Oh Lord,protect for me my sight,my hearing & my thoughts. There is none like you. Kindly protect me from Poverty, disbelief & hatred. All praises,honour & thanks belong to thou holy name".

I love Nigeria and I'm totally committed to its great future, while not excluding my muslim & xtian brethren in my sincere love for them as the true Islam preaches.



Niger 4 life!

@Tboy007,

If a medal was to be awarded for the most hypocritical remarks in this thread, you deserve it alone, second to none!

You pretend to look the other way and complain about remarks being uncomplimentary and "Islamphobic" when your own Muslim brethren have incessantly attacked the convictions of Christians endlessly, blasphemed Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit with derogatory remarks in this and other threads, and have cursed like cursing machines in the example of the cursing Muhammad who took his hatred against Jews and Christians to his grave!

Muslims are welcome to curse like Muhammad as much as they want - I've often cautioned them with replies from the Psalms. At the end of the day, you will come back to find how true it is that the Muslim incessant attacks on the Bible, Jesus Christ and Christianity are a fruitless adventure!

@pilgrim.1

You pretend to look the other way and complain about remarks being uncomplimentary and "Islamphobic" when your own Muslim brethren have incessantly attacked the convictions of Christians endlessly, blasphemed Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit with derogatory remarks in this and other threads, and have cursed like cursing machines in the example of the cursing Muhammad who took his hatred against Jews and Christians to his grave!

Now go to the the first thread/post on religious section, read it and let me know who started it.

@pilgrim

You pretend to look the other way and complain about remarks being uncomplimentary and "Islamphobic" when your own Muslim brethren have incessantly attacked the convictions of Christians endlessly, blasphemed Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit with derogatory remarks in this and other threads, and have cursed like cursing machines in the example of the cursing Muhammad who took his hatred against Jews and Christians to his grave!

Your holyghost inspired xtian bro started it ,u religious LovePeddler.

Tboy007:

Irrespective of our faith inclinations, I think this is a wonderful prayer tract"

"Oh Lord,protect for me my sight,my hearing & my thoughts. There is none like you. Kindly protect me from Poverty, disbelief & hatred. All praises,honour & thanks belong to thou holy name".

As "wonderful" as that prayer sounds it is completely meaningless if you dont know who you are saying the prayer to. To whom would the Ogun worshipper (irrespective of his faith inclinations) be addressing this prayer?

router:

@pilgrim

Your holyghost inspired xtian bro started it ,u religious LovePeddler.

Well well well.
The 'religion of Piss' speaks

babs787:

@pilgrim.1


Now go to the the first thread/post on religious section, read it and let me know who started it.

show me a derogatory word on the first post.
I merely pointed out a fact that you folks like to "dodge" and olabs confirmed it to be true.
Why should the fact that there are different Korans make anyone mad if it's a true saying?

Below is my first post

Translations are bound to have very small,sometimes negligible differences that don't alter the main message of the texts.
We have had several muslim apologists boast of the one Al Koran in arabic,un touched and unchanged,just like allah delivered it unto his prophet Muhammad.

Some have gone as far as making claims that the Bible is corrupted since it has various translations even though the various English translations have no contrasting messages.

Now we know the English translations of the Koran differ in style of writing so the Muslims tell us the Koran is basically useless in any other language but arabic and claim there is only one Arabic Koran.

What do you say if I tell you that claim is false
There are different Korans and I have proof.

The five current versions of the Koran are:


The Transmitter Hafs, who is Hafs ibn Suleyman ibn Al-Mugheerah Al-Asadi Al-Kuufi (d. 180H):
His Qiraa'ah named Hafs from 'Aasim is the most popular reading of the Quran in the world today, except for some parts of Africa. Hafs was officially adopted by Egypt in 1924. His chain from 'Aasim:

He heard from 'Aasim ibn Abu Najud Al-Kuufi (d. 128H) who was Taabi'i, i.e, among the generation following the Sahaabah, who heard from Abu Abdur-Rahman Abdullah ibn Habib As-Sulami, who heard from Uthman ibn Affan and Ali ibn Abi Talib and Zayd ibn Thaabit and Ubayy ibn Ka'b, who heard from the Prophet (PBUH).


The Transmitter Duuri, is Abu 'Amr Hafs ibn Umar ibn Abdul-Aziz ibn Subhan Ad-Duuri Al-Baghdaadi (d. 246H):
His Qiraa'ah named Duuri from Abu 'Amr is popular in parts of Africa like Somalia, Sudan as well as in other parts. His chain of from Abu 'Amr:

He heard from Abu Muhammad Yahya ibn Mubarak ibn Mugheerah Yazidiyy (d. 202H), who heard from Abu 'Amr Zuban ibn 'Ala Maziniyy Al-Busriyy (d. 154H), who heard from the Qiraa'aat from Sahaabis Ali and Uthman and Abu Musa and Umar and Ubayy ibn Ka'b and Zayd ibn Thaabit, who heard from the Prophet (PBUH).


The Transmitter Warsh, who is Abu Saeed Uthman ibn Saeed Al-Misri, nicknamed Warsh, (d. 197H):
HIs Qiraa'ah named Warsh from Naafi' is popular in North Africa. His chain from Naafi':

He heard from Naafi' ibn Abdur-Rahman ibn Abu Nu'aim Al-Madani (d. 169H), who heard from Abu Ja'far Yazid ibn Al-Qa'qaa' and Abu Dawud Abdur-Rahman ibn Hurmuz Al-A'raj and Shaybah ibn Nisah Al-Qaadhi and Abu Abdullah Muslim ibn Jundub Al-Hudhali and Abu Rawh Yazid ibn Ruman, who heard from Abu Hurairah and Ibn Abbaas and Abdullah ibn 'Ayyaash ibn Abi Rabii'ah, who heard from Ubayy ibn Ka'b, who heard from the Prophet (PBUH).


The Transmitter Suusi:
His Qiraa'ah named Suusi from Abu 'Amr is also found around the world in small parts.


The Transmitter Qaaluun, who is Imaam Qaaluun:
His Qiraa'ah named Qaaluun from Naafi' is popular in places like Libya in Africa. His chain from Naafi':

He heard from Naafi' ibn Abdur-Rahman ibn Abu Nu'aim Al-Madani (d. 169H), who heard from Abu Ja'far Yazid ibn Al-Qa'qaa', who heard from Abdullah ibn Abbaas and Abu Hurairah, who heard from Ubayy ibn Ka'b and Zayd ibn Thaabit, who heard from the Prophet (PBUH).


In case Muslim readers should be greatly concerned: The variances between these different versions of the Koran are generally quite small and minor, although there are a substantial number of them. Muhammad Fahd Khaaruun has published a version of the (Hafs) Koran which contains the variant readings from the 10 Accepted Readers in its margins. About 2/3 of the ayat (verses) have some sort of variant reading. The great majority are differences in the vowels inserted in certain words (remembering that the early written kufic texts of the Koran did not include vowels or diacritical marks). There appears to be only one difference that might represent a significant effect on belief, that in surah 2:184. There are many Islamic scholars' discussions about these many differences. As an example of one, in Hafs, surah 2:140 reads taquluna, while in Warsh, that text is in surah 2:139 and reads yaquluna. Another example: Hafs surah 2:214 reads yaquula while Warsh surah 2;212 reads yaquulu. Muslim scholars agree that such variations do not seriously alter the meaning of statements made in the Koran.

.

http://www.mb-soft.com/believe/txo/koran.htm

and hear what olabowole admitted to that no other person had the courage to say.

Not surprising that the author of the article that you quoted from, to illustrate the 'slight variations,' as he said in the Qur'an will say what he said. I am a Yoruba man, and you will know that from my name. I learnt how read the Qur'an in Arabic in America. Thank God. This is the greatest achievement of my life. It has opened my heart to the religion that you are trying so hard to put down and drag it in the same damp filth that you have your own religion and its book.

[b]Now I read Warsh, which is more associated to the Moroccans, and also read Hafs. All my Qur'ans are in Hafs, which is an easier reading for me, because I am very used to the character. But I learnt how to read Qur'an from what the Indian/Pakistani subcontinent is more associated with. Yet it is a different character from the other two, the Warsh and Hafs! But when you pick up warsi Qur'an, you know immediately the different letters, eg fa, qaf are differently written, and unlike the Hafs, fa and qaf. But they are pronounced the same way, in both and all the Qur'ans, with slight local or dialectic pronounciation or voice inflections.

For example an Indian reciter will say va instead of wa. But everyone knows that he pronounced wa, not va, because thare is no V in arabic vocal or alphabets. Your guy is a magicians, and since he knows that he is talking to the eyes and ears and hearts and tongues that are unfamiliar to the Qur'anic words/pronounciations, he can fool you all day, all night all the time! His garbage is for the comsumptions of the ignorants. You happen for now be one of them. He knows that the muslims will destroy his hypothesis, in a minute, as even a man like me is doing right now. Yet I have not memorised a great deal of the Qur'an. But i can read every letter of these three styles i have mentioned. There are other styles that can only be read by those who studied the Qur'an in an matriculated setting. But we all pronounce it the same way. Whether you read slow, fast, prolonging as if exagerating the sound, or sharp as if compressing the sound, in Warsh, Hafs, or any style, the trained eyes, ears and tongue will correct the reciter, even when they are from opposite ends of the world, if a mistake is made.[/b]

Tell your hoodini, that his magic did nothing to the muslims. We do not falkl for flim flam, or any ind of hokeydoke! Tell your person and am addressing this to all the non Muslims, that Qur'an does not have to be written down before it can be recited. It is an oral document, so his hypothesis of written vowels or word variations id zero on the scale of 1 to 10. Zero being lets closely into the presentation, the minimun possible mark here. Afterall, Muhammad did not know how to read and did not know how to write! Yet he is the one that the Qur'an was revealed to! How about that? Further the time he forgot even a word of it, it was aprocess of Allah given us the legislation of how to correct reciters in the muslim ummah. Afterall, Allah caused His Messenger (as) to forget so that He can show us that no one is abovethe ability to forget and therefore no one should feel low that he or she is corrected. It is the same way that a mistake is correct in salah by the making up what you did not do, eg, if the numbers of rakah wee not exacly as it is supposed to be, you make the two prostrations of the face before you get out of the Salah.

This s a strange phenomina, to you, since prostration is something you are arrogant to do yet. Even muhammad was the one who had most prostrations in Salah to his Creator. Afterall, no one can be as good as him in Islamic worship. I can not say that about Christians and Jesus, since Jesus was not a Christian anyhow. So your mode of worshipis something strange to Jesus and was also developed by others after him, who could not possibly be his true follower(s).

Yes Some Muslims are very arrogant when they defend their beliefs, Some Christians can be too. I just wished they could both be humble.

@+Osisi: Pele (its always spelled without the k. But I am going to use your version; Kpele, accented when spoken, but meant the same thing as Pele, an oral word, means easy or something like that. Imagine, there is no accurate single word in English for Yoruba's PELE! Then you wrote it with, starting with a K! So it is no surprise that the english effort of the Qur'anic translators are different, just as there is no clear single word for Pele in English. The Warsh, Hafs, etc stands for the Pele, Kpele, etc!

But have you ever seen a Bible that could be the Pele, Kpele, etc (Warsh, Hafs, etc writing, all in the original language of revelation, but in your case "inspired into the pen/thoughts of men?" Is any inspiration in Aramaic, Hebrew and where are they? Is any inspiration in latin/roman/greek/English and where are they?

show me a derogatory word on the first post.
I merely pointed out a fact that you folks like to "dodge" and olabs confirmed it to be true.
Why should the fact that there are different Korans make anyone mad if it's a true saying?

What are you talking about lady? Where did I 'dodge?' Rather it is you have dodged me, all through the process I have been on this board! I know your hatred for islam is deep, because it ven affect me a Yoruba man (I have laugh at this, because it is true!). Where are the different Qur'ans, you, you, " !" See it is Islam that prevented me to speak my mind as a Nigerian male to you a Nigerian female (Rofl; Since we are from a male dominated society. Indeed all society is. And USA is not an exemption. I know better, so don't even try to front!)

@Logical:

Yes Some Muslims are very arrogant when they defend their beliefs, Some Christians can be too. I just wished they could both be humble.

You have assumed that Christianity is always right. That is the same assumptions with Islam and the Muslims. The arrogance of the Christians! lol/rofl. (And +Osisi, thanks for bringing me upto date, in the lingo. I pray that I can return a favor; bring you upto date, in true belief!)

@olabowale
I assumed that Christianity is always right? What makes you say so? Curious

Your sentence constructions; (Muslims are very arrogant) and (some christians can be, too) are two telling signs. When you spoke about the Muslims, you were very clear and firm, but as you spoke about Christians, it be came mild and conditional, almost reactionary.

O my bad, did you really read my post or you choose to cast a blind eye towards the usage of [b]Some [/b]in my sentence construct. It is very accurate, or you find it offensive? That some Muslims can be very arrogant? Ah you wanted me to say "Some Christians are too". Semantics but irrelevant, yet accurate. Ah wait a minute, it was in your quote . I hereby rest my case.

@Babyosis


Havent I answered your allegations?

+osisi & pilgrim.1. Let me throw this question to you, especially for +osisi. From your argument, is like you have agreed that there are differents versions of the HOLY BIBLE and you are now looking for ways / tacts to pronounce to the world that the HOLY QURAN is also having versions?
If not why dont you creat time to defend the uniformity or oneness of the HOLY BIBLE instead of criticising the HOLY QURAN.
To be frank with ourselves, it is just the pronouciation and translations that differs, we dont have different versions of HOLY QURAN and we will never have. Unless you want to creat one and face the consequence. I even pray that the consequence of this topic of yours will not distratrous/catastrophic/devastating to you here and hereafter.
May God forgive us.

+osisi & pilgrim.1. Let me throw this question to you, especially for +osisi. From your argument, is like you have agreed that there are differents versions of the HOLY BIBLE and you are now looking for ways / tacts to pronounce to the world that the HOLY QURAN is also having versions?
If not why don't you creat time to defend the uniformity or oneness of the HOLY BIBLE instead of criticising the HOLY QURAN.
To be frank with ourselves, it is just the pronouciation and translations that differs, we don't have different versions of HOLY QURAN and we will never have. Unless you want to creat one and face the consequence. I even pray that the consequence of this topic of yours will not distratrous/catastrophic/devastating to you here and hereafter.
May God forgive us.

Salam and thanks very much for noticing the kind of person some of this christians are. I have answered her earlier only for her to come her and pretend as if I have not.

Just like you said, may Allah forgive us all and open the eyes of those that are already lost.

babs787:

Salam and thanks very much for noticing the kind of person some of this christians are. I have answered her earlier only for her to come her and pretend as if I have not.

Just like you said, may God forgive us all and open the eyes of those that are already lost.

Empty words. You all know that you have various versions of Koran but you rather defend it with your life than admit the truth. Hmmm, is the issue of consequence a threat or what?

This is just plain ignorance!!!

Empty words. You all know that you have various versions of Great Book but you rather defend it with your life than admit the truth. Hmmm, is the issue of consequence a threat or what?

Some have eyes but prefer to walk blind and some have senses but prefer posting senselessly.

Go through my posts and you would see that I did justice to her question. When you finish satisfying yourself, you still change your id to Nwando, its a free world.

babs787:

Some have eyes but prefer to walk blind and some have senses but prefer posting senselessly.

At least you admitted posting senselessly which is quite unlike you. I am really seeing some +ve? changes in you.

babs787:

Go through my posts and you would see that I did justice to her question. When you finish satisfying yourself, you still change your id to Nwando, its a free world.

Just as you changed your signature to mine. A free world indeed

mr poster please if u don't have any +ve thing to post o if your not a moslem your oppion is not needed here, so please keep your findings to your self or to your crowd don't go start a religious war or something. INCASE YOU DID NOT SEE " NARALAND FORUM / GENERAL DISCUSSION/ RELIGION/ISLAM FOR MUSLIM[quote][/quote]

well,it is true the section is for muslims,,,but then,i must chip this in,,,i really pity many nigerian muslims,who are just dere,following islamic religion,and who really love arguing!, i ve arab friends,,they never try to argue or discuss religion with me,,or worse still,try to tell me d bible is not truthful.ONE THING YOU PPL MUST KNOW IS THIS,,SOME OF THESE ARABS;- FROM WHOM You GOT THE ISLAMIC RELIGION, KEEP ON AS MUSLIMS 'COS THEY WILL BE KILLED IF THEY DARE TO CHANGE TO ANOTHER RELIGION .my friends actually tell me,u know,,,when i tell them about how we always ve religious clashes in Naija,,,he tells me "any muslim who does not acknowledge christianity,and judaism as true,,,is very stupid"

@Cute

well,it is true the section is for muslims,,,but then,i must chip this in,,,i really pity many nigerian muslims,who are just dere,following islamic religion,and who really love arguing!, i ve arab friends,,they never try to argue or discuss religion with me,,or worse still,try to tell me d bible is not truthful.ONE THING YOU PPL MUST KNOW IS THIS,,SOME OF THESE ARABS;- FROM WHOM You GOT THE ISLAMIC RELIGION, KEEP ON AS MUSLIMS 'COS THEY WILL BE KILLED IF THEY DARE TO CHANGE TO ANOTHER RELIGION .my friends actually tell me,u know,,,when i tell them about how we always ve religious clashes in Naija,,,he tells me "any muslim who does not acknowledge christianity,and judaism as true,,,is very stupid"

The threads speak for themselves with regards to bible and christianity and please do you have sany biblical verse to support your statement?

@Cuteness01:

ONE THING YOU PPL MUST KNOW IS THIS,,SOME OF THESE ARABS;- FROM WHOM You GOT THE ISLAMIC RELIGION, KEEP ON AS MUSLIMS 'COS THEY WILL BE KILLED IF THEY DARE TO CHANGE TO ANOTHER RELIGION .my friends actually tell me,u know,,,when i tell them about how we always ve religious clashes in Naija,,,he tells me "any muslim who does not acknowledge christianity,and judaism as true,,,is very stupid"

Ask your arab friend to show you, in Qur'an and or in the Hadith, where Allah and or His Messenger (AS) acknowledgement of Christianity and Judaism as true religion. When he can not, know that he is being hypocritical with you all along. If he can then bring us the information.

My lady, I think you can post here anytime you want. You should post here and I and others will like to know your finding from this arab friend of yours. First, Islam is not for arabs, because not all arabs are muslims and not all muslims are arabs.

Finally, tell your arab friend that a muslim had told you that islam got to Africa (Ethiopia) before it got to Madina. Then surprise him that Makka is in the greater Continental Africa. And there are many tribes of africa (Yoruba of Nigeria is one of them), that can trace its origin from or to the vicinity of Makka.

Since i av staretd reading this thread i now know that the Devil is living.
I dont know what christians are doing in the muslims forum.
All they want to do is castigate and critcise islam because they hate tha religion with passion that is why they are following us every where.

whether you lke it or not that book is better than any other book in the world.All u are presenting are just mere fabrications to bring down this book.

I know if this was to happen in the xtian thread Seun would av banned a lot of pple.

please leave us alone!!!!!!!!!!!!
practise ur religion and leave ours alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Since i av staretd reading this thread i now know that the Devil is living.
I don't know what christians are doing in the muslims forum.
All they want to do is castigate and critcise islam because they hate tha religion with passion that is why they are following us every where.

whether you lke it or not that book is better than any other book in the world.All u are presenting are just mere fabrications to bring down this book.

I know if this was to happen in the xtian thread Seun would av banned a lot of people.

please leave us alone!!!!!!!!!!!!
practise your religion and leave ours alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Firstly:

Invite (all) to the way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: For thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. (Quran 16:125)"


If they refuse to heed to the warning and acceot the truth, then:


The Disbelievers

109:1 Say: O disbelievers!
109:2 I worship not that which ye worship;
109:3 Nor worship ye that which I worship.
109:4 And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
109:5 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109:6 Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.