David, you seem to have totally lost hope in my brothers rectifying the mistakes of the past. Thats not fair to my generation of northerners who know nothing about the maladministration of the old. we are now as vibrant as you are, i mean my set of northerners. we are in the same league with you, Havila, Babyosisi and the rest. We see ourselves first as nigerians. we dont care what was done before, we only care about changing what wrong was done before. We can support each other. me and you dont need to accumulate the billions of corrupt nairas that our leaders of the past made their priority. we care more about building infrastructures and improving living standards of our loyal folks that have waited for what seem like eternity to get the right mix in leadership resources. lets come together and give them the right doses. Or what do you think?

Belloti, who are your political sponsors?

belloti:

David, you seem to have totally lost hope in my brothers rectifying the mistakes of the past. Thats not fair to my generation of northerners who know nothing about the maladministration of the old. we are now as vibrant as you are, i mean my set of northerners. we are in the same league with you, Havila, Babyosisi and the rest. We see ourselves first as nigerians. we don't care what was done before, we only care about changing what wrong was done before. We can support each other. me and you don't need to accumulate the billions of corrupt nairas that our leaders of the past made their priority. we care more about building infrastructures and improving living standards of our loyal folks that have waited for what seem like eternity to get the right mix in leadership resources. lets come together and give them the right doses. Or what do you think?

I am more than tempted to reason with you on this last score, except I lived and taught in the north for a yr before i left Nigeria! I interacted with several northern youths in class and outside it and i can boldly tell you that THEY are no different from their corrupt fathers! Infact you needed to see the way they treat anything Nigeria as their private property, if they are an acurate barometer for the "vibrant and new generation" of northerners then i'm afraid i want nothing to do with them neither do i consider them fellow country men!

I remember being told to my face by a student that even if i did not pass him (he was a collosal failure), he would still end up being my boss at some point in time! I knew what he meant, thanks to federal character and quota system such an illiterate will someday become the minister of aviation! I am grateful that neither i nor my children will suffer the ignominy of being ruled by inept and morally bankrupt ethnic jingoists masking their selfish interests with the "one Nigeria" catch phrase!

The problem between North and South is not merely generational, it is an attitude! A people who would rather identify themselves with Arabia, Lebanon and Palestine can never live together with those of us who have western leanings! It is hard to concieve being successful at weaning off those who from their mother's wombs have learnt to be idle while recieving huge sums of "federal allocation" generated from the sweat of others. For far too long the north has been rewarded for its indolence, intransigence, economic and human resource bankruptcy, illiteracy and mediocrity! It is unimaginable to think they are ready to change!

Have you evern wondered why there are no northerners in sports except at the (mal)administrative level where they have succeeded in running our past successes aground?
Where are the northern press? Who are the northern legal luminaries? Where are the northern industries besides those importing and selling rice and spaghetti? Which northerner is widely recognized beyond the boundaries of Sokoto? Where are the northern professors (i really mean professors not those rewarded for just being northerners!)?

Where really is the north and what concrete contribution have they brought to the Nigerian state?

davidylan:

Apparently these "majority" northerners only appear during census and election periods! Please when next you visit the north, do not forget to take a closer look at the cows, goats and sheep there; they are all northerners too!

You are clearly a tribalist and therefore your opinion is rendered useless at least to me !

JosBoy4life, you have to admit that Northerners being a majority is a fraud. Everywhere I go is Igbos, Yorubas, Edo people, I rarely see these guys who claim to be the majority or atleast not as much as I see Southerners,

JosBoy4Lif:

You are clearly a tribalist and therefore your opinion is rendered useless at least to me !

What is a tribalist? Is it something i should know? My oppinion? Of course it was always meant to be useless to those who'd rather play the ostrich with their heads buried in the sand rather than face the truth!

Since 1960 we have continued to peddle the incomprehensible falsehood that more people dwell in the desert than in the rain forest zones! To your tents o Isreal!

The North is a dessert?
Hmmm, though we get a weeks tail of hamattan, we are a desert

@ Donzman
Because you dont see them does not mean that they are there
In London alone i could name a handful of Northern Nigerians, and not just northerners Hausa people

Obviously there is a disproptionate amount of southerners and northers abroad. Does that mean that there is not over 3,000,000 people in Kano, err roughly a million in Jos?
Lemme ask you question is there more southerners in the north or northerners in the south?

davidylan:

I am more than tempted to reason with you on this last score, except I lived and taught in the north for a yr before i left Nigeria! I interacted with several northern youths in class and outside it and i can boldly tell you that THEY are no different from their corrupt fathers! Infact you needed to see the way they treat anything Nigeria as their private property, if they are an acurate barometer for the "vibrant and new generation" of northerners then i'm afraid i want nothing to do with them neither do i consider them fellow country men!

I remember being told to my face by a student that even if i did not pass him (he was a collosal failure), he would still end up being my boss at some point in time! I knew what he meant, thanks to federal character and quota system such an illiterate will someday become the minister of aviation! I am grateful that neither i nor my children will suffer the ignominy of being ruled by inept and morally bankrupt ethnic jingoists masking their selfish interests with the "one Nigeria" catch phrase!

The problem between North and South is not merely generational, it is an attitude! A people who would rather identify themselves with Arabia, Lebanon and Palestine can never live together with those of us who have western leanings! It is hard to concieve being successful at weaning off those who from their mother's wombs have learnt to be idle while recieving huge sums of "federal allocation" generated from the sweat of others. For far too long the north has been rewarded for its indolence, intransigence, economic and human resource bankruptcy, illiteracy and mediocrity! It is unimaginable to think they are ready to change!

Have you evern wondered why there are no northerners in sports except at the (mal)administrative level where they have succeeded in running our past successes aground?
Where are the northern press? Who are the northern legal luminaries? Where are the northern industries besides those importing and selling rice and spaghetti? Which northerner is widely recognized beyond the boundaries of Sokoto? Where are the northern professors (i really mean professors not those rewarded for just being northerners!)?

Where really is the north and what concrete contribution have they brought to the Nigerian state?

The answer to your question is 'absolutely nothing,nada,zilch,nunca,zero'
They are more interested in running around with sudan and Saudi arabia using our money for muslim affairs  while their children(innocent kids) die in millions of meningitis,vvf,polio,river blindness and even leprosy.
Yes leprosy and other diseases thought to be eradicated or at least on serious check elsewhere is still alive and well in Northern Nigeria in the 21st century.

Like you davidylan,I believe they have had enough chance at Nigeria,we need a forward looking southerner to dig us out of the hole we are currently in,Yerima should cover his mouth with his turban,he is not our man.

Lemme ask you question is there more southerners in the north or northerners in the south?

More southerners in the North without a doubt. I myself was born in the North, Sokoto to be precise.

@All,
Now this is getting quite interesting: I am more than convinced that if we do not "voluntarily re-organise" that false entity called Nigeria, we might (I sincerely pray not!) have to force ourselves apart.
In a situation in which one of the 'prominent northen presidential candidates' claims that 'staying at home and sleep all day long' are his officical assignments for now while trying to shake off allegations of corruption; another is rumored to be the biggest living looter of public treasury in the world: is it not clear that Nigeria as a nation has failed?
Seriously, I believe in nigerians as individuals for now and not in Nigeria has a nation!!

Its quite unfortunate that we that atleast seem to be enlighten could allow ourselves to be drag into these ludicruos political assertions about north being this or being that while south is that. Its really getting disappointing. i thought we on nairaland belongs to what i may call a new nigeria with lot of promises. if i was "unlucky" to be born in the not so viable north of niger and having grown up to admire the nigerian concept and believing in the nigerian spirit, its still too bad for me because my mum who was a school teacher by then could not think of transferring me to a surrogate mother in ogbomosho or amuwo or probably in bonny kingdom. My only shortcoming now is my place of birth and my so called heritage of indulgence and laziness. I think we are not living up to expectation here and its a cause for concern. We should be smarter than this

@Belloti,
Ok now! Enough of this "victims disposition" that you are now adopting on this issue. If you really are convinced of the "new nigeria concept and believe in the nigerian spirit" then you should come up with reasonable suggestions and ideas about how it can be achieved regardless of the oppostions to your idea or concept. I personnally agree with a lot of the anti-north sentiments displayed on this forum; but what is the way forward? So rather than you being bothered about how "unsmart" nairalanders are because they disagree with you and your position, that is not a reason to withdraw into a shell and adopt a "cry-baby" mentality; you should be able to stand your ground even in the face of the most vicious oppositions if you are convinced of the soundness of your dreams and vision of the new nigeria. If you are wiating for 'people to live up to expectation', you will wait forever, make us agree with you if you have ideas and suggestions of how we can achieve a Nigeria where everybody feels a sense of belonging; where people do not see their ethnicity as a disadvantage in the scheme of things; where we could annex all available oportunities and skills to move the federation forward; where youths can dare to dream!!!
So, stop 'whimpering' and talk if you have concrete issues, bro!!

belloti:

Its quite unfortunate that we that atleast seem to be enlighten could allow ourselves to be drag into these ludicruos political assertions about north being this or being that while south is that. Its really getting disappointing. i thought we on nairaland belongs to what i may call a new nigeria with lot of promises. if i was "unlucky" to be born in the not so viable north of niger and having grown up to admire the nigerian concept and believing in the nigerian spirit, its still too bad for me because my mum who was a school teacher by then could not think of transferring me to a surrogate mother in ogbomosho or amuwo or probably in bonny kingdom. My only shortcoming now is my place of birth and my so called heritage of indulgence and laziness. I think we are not living up to expectation here and its a cause for concern. We should be smarter than this

Sit there moaning about nairaland members and their "not living up to whose expectations really"! Unfortunately our views here are an accurate reflection of the unspoken views of more than 90% of all average southerners (minus the turncoats in government!) who see the north as the reason for Nigeria's present decay.

The greater cause for concern is NOT nairaland members but:
[list]
[li]a national honors list that seeks to recognise people based on a quota system rather than service to the nation,
poor students who have to spend centuries at home because quota system ensures students from Educationally Less Disadvantaged states get into universities even with lower scores.
A "federal" civil service that is nothing but a conduit for lazy, uneducated northerners to earn an illegal living.
A senate and house of reps that enact laws based on ethnic leanings and NOT the common good! see also child rights bill, land use act.
An economy that is based wholly on revenue "sharing" rather than generation!
Placing square pegs in round holes just to satisfy religious and ethnic interests, mainly northern interests!
Consistent imposition of inacurate census figures to perpetuate an illegality!
The idea that some "untouchables" can defy the constitution with impunity based on their religion and ethnic leanings. see also sharia states![/li]
[li][/li]
[/list]

Rather than addressing these issues, you prefer to bury your head in the sand like an ostrich by playing up sentiments. The assertions about the north are NOT ludicrous as you attempt to label it but mere hard facts that the north prefers to sweep under the carpet. The only ethnic group afraid of either secession or a true federal system of governance is the north. Why? simply because they do not have a means of sustenance! They are wholly dependent on "federal" allocation which is simply an euphemism for oil revenue!

How many states in the north can sustain just their state capitals? Can you count the number of industries in the north? Even dangote prefers to locate his business in the south, that should tell you what he thinks about his own people!

You guys seem to forget that the union recognises these facts and sought to address them as well. We cant change what north was or is, but we can move forward by accepting our structural superiority or inferiority without emphasis on making someone pays. the north as a region is different with the few lucky northerners that failed the nation. You only seem to be bent on making the whole of north suffer the brunt. We only need to come up with a working blueprint that recognises where the lapses are and who fits the round wholes irrespective of background. Am not really frighten by the threat of seccession but i dont think it would augur well for any of the factions.

@Belloti,
Very good! let's keep on talking. I appreciate your concern and the fact that only few but powerful northerners took us where we are now. But some people suggested secession, I suggested a true federalism with regional power bases and weak centre, what do you suggest and why? This is the level where we can reason and stop rethorics, my dear brother!

belloti:

You guys seem to forget that the union recognises these facts and sought to address them as well. We can't change what north was or is, but we can move forward by accepting our structural superiority or inferiority without emphasis on making someone pays. the north as a region is different with the few lucky northerners that failed the nation. You only seem to be bent on making the whole of north suffer the brunt. We only need to come up with a working blueprint that recognises where the lapses are and who fits the round wholes irrespective of background. Am not really frighten by the threat of seccession but i don't think it would augur well for any of the factions.

Which "union" are you talking about here? The false agglomeration of incompatible states that was foisted on us by Lord Lugard in 1914? Are the actions of sharia mongering northern governors indicative of the fact that they consider Nigeria a "union"?

Who represents this "union"?
Which "facts" do they recognise and where and when did they seek to address them? Was it not the same northerners who attempted to shoot down Obasanjo's idea of the National political reform conference? Where they not the same people who skipped REAL issues to harrass us about religious marginalisation of those in charge of the NPRC?
Why was true federalism and resource control placed among the "no-go areas" of the NPRC and to whose benefit?

Where indeed have these non-existent representatives of this bogus "union" been discussing these "facts"? Perhaps in Jupiter?

As for your "fears" about secession, it is the same non-existent "not auguring well for anyone" rhetoric that your leaders and other southern turncoats have been using to keep the people perpetually enslaved to this "union" that seeks to serve only the pockets of the rulers. No one wants secession JUST YET (we might need it later), but a step in the right direction is a RETURN to TRUE FEDERALISM! You rule your state and i rule mine! The fact that oil is drilled in Bayelsa should not be the concern of the man in Kebbi state!
Whether Ogun state decides to reserve all admissions to Ogun state university for its indigenes only should not raise the hackles of the man in Sokoto! To each man his own!!! Folks like Atiku would not be sleeping at home while Nigeria burns, Abacha would not be able to include the south in his campaign of ruin, men like Awolowo and Pat Utomi would be in office and we can all go to sleep knowing that if the north decides to pocket all their own "revenue" if any, it would not affect how we run our lives!

You see David, whenever you argue with so much sentiments you always miss the point. your arguement hinges so much on the north being the loser in the event of secession. you so much emphasised on it as if you were passing a death sentence on the region. Oil, Oil, Oil. You know the discovery of oil in oloibokri and the okitipupa plains in 1958 and 1908 basically marked the begining of Nigerias woes and political instability. Northern Nigerians were bunch of hardworking farmers that build groundnut pyramid with passion while the yorubas bask on their cocoa and pal oil elsewhere in the east. Nigerians were never short of sustenable agricultural employments.

The yakubu Gowon era of oil wealth and subsequent mismanagement and corruptions led to the shift of emphasis from our economic mainstay to make foray into the new found goldmine. You thought we are extremely scared of reverting to status quo ante or probably we may not even survive the breakage. Nah, thats where you got it all wrong. But then i dont want to dwell so much on this issue because it was never a reasonable idea of a way forward. It was where we had being.

@Belloti,
I was enjoying your analytical evaluation of the different regions, and when I thought yes! belloti is going to give a counter opinion, you stopped short at the usual rhetoric. Is it that you dont have any opinion or suggestion? and/or you think there is a way we can manage this current 'ethnocentric', unstable, anti-progressive and corrupt political system that we have now without some very difficult reform?. I am interested in your own opinion. You are right!!, it is not only the north that has become lazy because of the new golden egg of 'oil', even the west and the east have all become complacent, while the hen that lays the egg is wallowing in abject poverty. But that can change.
I am also against secession of any part of Nigeria (for now!!); but I am still convinced that one way forward is definitely true federalism

belloti:

You see David, whenever you argue with so much sentiments you always miss the point.

What is the best way to avoid issues and play the ostrich? Masking real issues backed up with concrete facts as mere "sentiments"!

belloti:

your arguement hinges so much on the north being the loser in the event of secession. you so much emphasised on it as if you were passing a death sentence on the region. Oil, Oil, Oil. You know the discovery of oil in oloibokri and the okitipupa plains in 1958 and 1908 basically marked the begining of Nigerias woes and political instability. Northern Nigerians were bunch of hardworking farmers that build groundnut pyramid with passion while the yorubas bask on their cocoa and pal oil elsewhere in the east. Nigerians were never short of sustenable agricultural employments.

The yakubu Gowon era of oil wealth and subsequent mismanagement and corruptions led to the shift of emphasis from our economic mainstay to make foray into the new found goldmine. You thought we are extremely scared of reverting to status quo ante or probably we may not even survive the breakage. Nah, thats where you got it all wrong. But then i don't want to dwell so much on this issue because it was never a reasonable idea of a way forward. It was where we had being.

The problem of Nigeria's political instability DID NOT start with oil discovery as northerners are apt to claim! The problem began the very day a 29 yr old neophyte called Yakubu Gowon (yes the very same man now masquerading as a prayer warrior!) decided to suspend a thriving federal system of governance with an inept, corrupt and unworkable unitary system of governance. Note that prior to 1966, no one was crying wolf about marginalisation!
The present mono-economy that has crippled all other once vibrant sectors of the economy can be traced back to that same intellectually inept decision! The very day that northern Nigeria realised she could benefit from Oil revenue without having to work or build groundnut pyramids!

David, i think you better listen to Havila and stop all these apportioning of blames. It doesnt potray you in good stand. If we found ourselves in a situation, we dont just sit down crying foul while we can as well offer some reasonable way out. Nigerian crisis is multi-facetted and ofcourse structurally based. But then here we are, knowing this much about it but wasting precious time arguing blindly.

Elections are back, if leadership is the bane of our problems, this is the time to fix it. If knowledge is our problem, we are getting more informed now. if we cant refocused our country now then we may as well keep our traps shuts and allow others who think differently.

belloti:

David, i think you better listen to Havila and stop all these apportioning of blames. It doesnt potray you in good stand. If we found ourselves in a situation, we don't just sit down crying foul while we can as well offer some reasonable way out. Nigerian crisis is multi-facetted and ofcourse structurally based. But then here we are, knowing this much about it but wasting precious time arguing blindly.

Elections are back, if leadership is the bane of our problems, this is the time to fix it. If knowledge is our problem, we are getting more informed now. if we can't refocused our country now then we may as well keep our traps shuts and allow others who think differently.

No sir! It is your leaders that are putting you and your northern brethren to shame. It is they who have let words such as indolent, corrupt, violent, illiterate, become synonyms for northerners not me!

You must be kidding when you talk about "offering a reasonable way out". Way out of what? Do you even recognise the problem at all? what of the progressives that have been crying themselves hoarse even at the point of risking lives and freedom? We know where those who "offered a reasonable way out" are, either 6ft under or in exile! Please stop being hypocritical!

The Nigerian crisis is not multi-faceted but made to look that way by those who are profiting from the present unworkable arrangement! The root of our problems is the failure of citizenship!!! A problem that was sown in 1914, nutured in 1966 and fully unveiled in 1993!

If elections where the way out of our problems, we should have been out of them since 1993! No thanks to another northern crook, the supposed voice of the people was "cancelled" in 1993! There is no point going to the polls, we did not vote for those in office today, for the few we voted for godfathers have ensured our "will" is truncated, the threat of impeachment is now the begining of wisdom.
Come 2007, those who will be doing the elections will not be we the people but they the cabal!

David, That sound like giving up.

belloti:

David, That sound like giving up.

I gave up the first day i stepped into Yola and realised we had been living with incompatible aliens all along!

David, you said it with so much finality. I dont think you will be surprise if no one agree with you. Its rather hash to hastely call northerners your incompatible aliens. i dont agree we have had such a bad companionship in all spheres of our daily interractions. i can agree politically, it has always bing somehow skewed in favour of the so-called majorities but then no matter how much influence our corrupt brothers wielded in the past, they were never able to break the southern monopoly in legal, oil and gas, accounting, medicine, etc. To be frank we ve always being fringe players despite our wealth of talents, brains and brawns. We never complaint because of our patience and perseverance. we all know politics has created so much negative notions about our so called regional inequalities but the truth remains we can always sort out our differences and move forward. And David, do not underestimate our generation of northerners.

@ Belloti

I will tend to agree with you that one thing that makes Nigeria one of the most interesting nations on earth is our ethnic diversity. I have been to the north several times and i must admit, if things are done right places like Jos, Bauchi, Gombe, Kogi, Kebbi, Nassarawa e.t.c can serve as excellent tourism centers and places where we could have world class sports facilities!!!

the south at present is too congested because everyone is simply running after oil money and access to the sea. Let your politicians take their eyes away from oil for once, there are enormous untapped potentials in the north. Tourism, mining, recreation centers, land area for large scale agriculture, industrial centers, name it. The north can be even greater than the south but for the lazy attitude exhibited by those who gallivant around in the name of northern leaders!

I personally do not want Nigeria to break up, but if that is the only solution to free the south from northern hegemony then so be it.

Nice talk, David. we are finally closing in. our next challenge is to come up with a workable blueprint that will incorporate all these diversities for the collective good of our country. Nigeria can be great once again. Gamaliel Onosode once said, Nigeria is a country with lot of potentials for greatness, unfortunately we may only continue to be great only in the potentials. i think he is right

David and Havila. Are you there?

Hi Belloti,
I thought you've abandoned Yerima since I did not hear from you for some days. Or you went for reinforcement in Gusau (am I correct, is that the capital of Zamfara?)

I don't blame any one rooting for Yerima or IBB.What do they know?Where have they been?Mostly those brought up to think that Nigeria's their play ground!To be honest and sincere can they really defend the antecedents of their respective principals?No they cannot.One is a religious/ethnic bigot and the other a known international kleptocrat who seized Government by decree and made mince meat of our economy!We know all these because we are exposed, we saw the destruction they have wrought and no amount of white washing won't do!Some cretin on this board would not let us breathe because of IBB.Can you imagine!Another guy Yerima!Goodness me!In this dayand age.
This ain't the stone age no more.We cannot allow our patrimony to be done as fit by these characters, their agentsor family. Same with some mongrel from Malaysia! We are no fools. We want a good listening leader of 150 million of us,500 ehnic groups and not some imp with his umblical cord attached to his ilk. We have a long way to go and time is about now to claim our destiny!
God willing come May 2007 His will concerning us would come to pass!Let us supplicate Him to help us from the retrogressive forces of shameless greed, religious bigotry, unabashed corruption and the plague of IBB, Yerima and similar cretins.

Lewa, na wa for u oh. You have already dumped my candidate to the refuse bin without any consideration for any sort of eligibility. Thats not fair. I know IBB case is rather different having been there before but Yerima belongs to the new generation of tested politicians yearning to offer more. Give them a chance, may be just may be they may perform excellently.

Havila, as if you knew, i dashed down to zamfara to keep abreast with issues at the home front. It was an eventful trip and we are still hopeful and counting on your supports.

belloti:

Yerima belongs to the new generation of tested politicians yearning to offer more. Give them a chance, may be just may be they may perform excellently.

1. What "generation" are you talking about here? Does merely being younger than our present kleptocrats automatically confer on him the title of "new generation of politicians"?

2. "tested" politician? Tested where and when? Does destabilizing our nascent democracy which he now pretends to defend by introducing sharia in a secular nation count as a test? What of his introduction of outrageous fees for "non-indigenes"?

3. "yearning to offer more" or yearning to get his filthy hands on the "federation" account derived from the sweat and labour of the south?
What did he previously offer Zamfara in 8 yrs that he is yearning to re-offer the nation? Sharia law?

4. Give him a chance? After 8 yrs of revenue "sharing", hand cutting and butt flogging in Zamfara?

belloti:

Havila, as if you knew, i dashed down to zamfara to keep abreast with issues at the home front. It was an eventful trip and we are still hopeful and counting on your supports.

Keep on waiting, but you wont wait too long because after May 2007, by the grace of God, Yerima and all other looters without immunity would probably be residing in the "real government house" as "government pikins" where they wear khaki uniforms, for corruption and embezzelment charges.