A very simple question for you guys to ponder and discuss on;

Does religion prevents or hinders the use of intelligence in the average religious human being?

Please,note that the onus is on the USAGE of intelligence.

Extremely intelligent people can be religious, so in 99% of the cases I would say that it has little influence.
What it does do is limit the application of that intelligence. For religious people, rationality does not take you all the way.
Either some fields are closed for rational inquiry or rationality cannot be taken to it's full conclusions, because an a priori position of faith needs to be maintained at all cost.

nferyn:

Extremely intelligent people can be religious, so in 99% of the cases I would say that it has little influence.
What it does do is limit the application of that intelligence. For religious people, rationality does not take you all the way.
Either some fields are closed for rational inquiry or rationality cannot be taken to it's full conclusions, because an a priori position of faith needs to be maintained at all cost.

How severe do you think that this is among religious people in general?I mean,how much are they inhibited from using their intelligence in diverse situations?
Take nigerians for instance,we're up to our ears in all kinds of religions.We've myriads of native religions to contend with,and on top of that,we've got two world religions to deal with too.Could all these religions be hindering us from developing intellectually,hence materially?

jagunlabi:

Does religion prevents or hinders the use of intelligence in the average religious human being?

Religion does not make morons of people and there are facts on ground to attest to that. Religious enquiries and experiences are quite a different phenomena from scientific investigations, and most scientists today know that. One of the problems people have in seeing this is that they want everything to be tested by the limited prism of a particular branch of science at all costs. This only furthers the problems rather than foster a coherrent understanding of the experiences of humanity.

The Pakistani Physicist, Abdus Salam was a devout Muslim, whose religion did not occupy a separate compartment of his work and family life. He was a very intelligent and hardworking scientist and jointly won the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1979 with Sheldon Lee Glashow (USA) and Steven Weinberg (USA). Infact, for more than forty years, Abdus Salam was a prolific researcher in theoretical elementary particle physics, either having pioneered or been associated with all the important developments in this field, maintaining a constant and fertile flow of brilliant ideas.

The American Physicist Charles Hard Townes (b. 1915), for his role in the invention of the maser and the laser, won the Nobel Prize for Physics in 1964 (jointly with Russians Nikolai G. Bassow and Alexander M. Prokhorov); was also a committed Christian who was not ashamed nor reluctant to be known for his beliefs. In 1951, he conceived the idea of using ammonia molecules to amplify microwave radiation which birthed the 'maser' (an acronym for “[b]m[/b]icrowave [b]a[/b]mplification by [b]s[/b]timulated [b]e[/b]mission of [b]r[/b]adiation”).

There are lots of other examples of brilliant minds who are religious and have contributed immensely in many fields of knowledge, not only in the past, but in the present. People still continue to benefit from their work. I don't think it is correct to assume that religious people are rationally constrained.

Most intelligent people simply switch off their brains when the issue at hand is love or religion.

We have them aplenty on Nairaland

Well, as far as I am concerned, I will only consider someone intelligent if they are rational at all times. So, if you are making up/believing kiddy stories without having proof, you are not intelligent.

To be called intelligent you have to have the ability to be searching into things under the earth and above the heavens and asking your mind question beyond your senses,

Can you distinguishes between the reality presented to us by our senses – sight, touch, taste, sound and smell – and the essence or Form of that reality.

There is a higher world, independent of the world we may experience through our senses. Because the senses may deceive us, it is necessary that this higher world exist, a world of Ideas or Forms

All of us – is at the mercy of sense impressions and unfortunately, our sense impressions oftentimes fail us. Our senses deceive us. But because we trust our senses,

The Greeks passed on to the west a spirit of rational inquiry that is very much our own intellectual property…

Life i have come to realise,in the short period i have lived,is where people young and old, good or bad, try to always play on each others intelligence mainly, for their own benefits. And the most used facet of life in achieving this deceit is religion.

Anybody that comes with an offer or proposal and tends to put religion as the crux of it without truly showing you what it entails or rewards is merely trying to play on your sentiments and this should cause you to think twice about it.

No doubt religion is good as we are all religious people one way or the other,but it is also of importance to not depend wholly on your five senses for answers to your questions as we are mere mortals and can never understand the heart of men,but to delve into the subconscious, buld your intuition as it is the voice of God within you. Only then will we be able to decode who is who. Remember what Jesus said about false prophets? Be careful my brethren and always listen to the still small voice.

The  first clarification has been made by syrup and I think Zeb added to the issue by showing people who tend to believe that religious people are unintelligent because they have closed their minds to the fact that there may be life outside the realm of the five senses and to suggest that there is implies a deficiency in intelligence.

Science has done so much for us through discoveries and our ability to use same to better our lives  but there are many thing that science will not unravel that we witness daily.A few years ago, TIMES magazine carried a report on its front page that says 'Can we believe in Miracles?' It was an investigative report that interviewed many medical practitioners who witnessed inexplicable changes from the acts of faith of certain patients.The magazine not being religious one concluded that there are indeed factors that works outside those controlled by the five senses.

A Scot friend and I had this discussion in 98 and she explains everything rationally.I asked her about David Copperfield,the great magician and what within her scientific discourse explain how an individual will in full glare of the press allow himself  tied down with chains and locked in  safe inside a building that was detonated with explosives.And she said it is a trick.I then asked her with her scientific knowledge to explain how the trick took place? It is in moments like this that the entire concept of intelligence that we know of come to their end.It is em.em, tele ki, em em,

How does a magician levitate and defy the laws of gravity.What of soul travel.Why are most Near death experiences so similar?Why do deities have such hold on people who can be considered very intelligent? How do people who indulge in money ritual actually get the money and how scientifically is in connected to the people they kill?

There is a world that we can not see and whether it is popular or not,something in us all crave for that world;that world where our sense and physical experiences cannot limit us.This craving is the reason why there has been an upsurge in the eastern religions in the past decade and it is the reason why the Harry Porter series was a best seller.


Often times when we are comfortable, we do not remember this but when life brings us face to face with uncertainties like death(what does our intelligence say about life after death,since we need to be sure) we come to place when we really evaluate our concept of intelligence.

Man is tripatite: Soul, Spirit and Body. Intelligence is limited by the Soul and Body. But the Spirit controls/dominate the other. Religion tends to 'probe/operate' the Spirit. They are at different levels entirely. Don't think there could be any basis of comparison

How to detect Soul and Spirit? I come to the preliminary conclusion that I have no such thing. Prove me wrong.

It so amazing how the responses of the so called intelligent people on this post is judgemental, prejudicial and stereotypical. Hmmh, It makes you wonder what their definition of intelligence is? oh i know, "seeing thing their way"

Is rationality equal to intelligence. Not in all cases.

I read about a sucessful mexican business man in the Harvard business review. He didnt apply any standard rational business model to his operations, yet he made it to fortune 500. There is the saying in business that there is the rational and irrational school of thought and there is no proof that one works better than the other. (reference HArvard Business review)


its so amazing how the onl response of the so-called rational people to things they cant explain is: There must be a rational explanation to all this"

mrlawng:

its so amazing how the onl response of the so-called rational people to things they can't explain is: There must be a rational explanation to all this"

Oh my goodness! mrlawng, dem send you?? You've just put it in a nutshell, and that says it all. But that doesn't mean that such rational people are not intelligent. Most are, a few close their minds, others are here and there; and what is life without this mix of people?

mrlawng:

It so amazing how the responses of the so called intelligent people on this post is judgemental, prejudicial and stereotypical. Hmmh, It makes you wonder what their definition of intelligence is? oh i know, "seeing thing their way"

Is rationality equal to intelligence. Not in all cases.

I read about a sucessful mexican business man in the Harvard business review. He didnt apply any standard rational business model to his operations, yet he made it to fortune 500. There is the saying in business that there is the rational and irrational school of thought and there is no proof that one works better than the other. (reference HArvard Business review)


its so amazing how the onl response of the so-called rational people to things they can't explain is: There must be a rational explanation to all this"

word lawng, word.

@jagunlabi

A very simple question for you guys to ponder and discuss on;

Does religion prevents or hinders the use of intelligence in the average religious human being?

Please,note that the onus is on the USAGE of intelligence.

If I may ask why the merry go round:

Does religion prevents or hinders the use of intelligence in the average religious human being?

which came first: The Religion or The Intelligence.

Question: Where do you place Mans Natural born Innate Knowledge of God? before religion? after religion, and before intelligence? or after religion and intelligence?

Answer: Man, while he tries to partially deny, totally deny, partially exagerrate, totally exagerrate his Inborn knowledge of God, falls into religion.

gidig:

Science has done so much for us through discoveries and our ability to use same to better our lives but there are many thing that science will not unravel that we witness daily.A few years ago, TIMES magazine carried a report on its front page that says 'Can we believe in Miracles?' It was an investigative report that interviewed many medical practitioners who witnessed inexplicable changes from the acts of faith of certain patients.The magazine not being religious one concluded that there are indeed factors that works outside those controlled by the five senses.

Wouldn't that be akin to the placebo effect? Which like acts of faith, also results in sometimes "miraculous" occurences.

A Scot friend and I had this discussion in 98 and she explains everything rationally.I asked her about David Copperfield,the great magician and what within her scientific discourse explain how an individual will in full glare of the press allow himself tied down with chains and locked in safe inside a building that was detonated with explosives.And she said it is a trick.I then asked her with her scientific knowledge to explain how the trick took place? It is in moments like this that the entire concept of intelligence that we know of come to their end.It is em.em, tele ki, em em,

She's right, it is a trick. That she couldn't explain it, doesn't make it any less of a trick. For example, I couldn't at on point explain how the quarter out of the ear trick was done, but that didn't mean people were "poofing" quarters into existence out of ears.

How does a magician levitate and defy the laws of gravity.

Stands on one leg, while the street audience marvels, then camera tricks are later used to wow the TV audience.

What of soul travel.

What of soul travel?

Why are most Near death experiences so similar?

Why are most ayahusca (sp?) experiences similar? Parsimonious explanation: something to do with the brain. Also, from what i understand many (most?) don't have NDE's.

Why do deities have such hold on people who can be considered very intelligent?

Intelligence doesn't preclude beliefs of the supernatural kind.

How do people who indulge in money ritual actually get the money and how scientifically is in connected to the people they kill?

You what?

There is a world that we can not see and whether it is popular or not,something in us all crave for that world;that world where our sense and physical experiences cannot limit us.This craving is the reason why there has been an upsurge in the eastern religions in the past decade and it is the reason why the Harry Porter series was a best seller.

There very well may be another world or dimension we can't see or test for, but there also could be a pink llama dancing in front of me too, *shrugs*. Also, by Eastern religions, I'm assuming you mean those religion that are far older than Christianity, and whose followers at one point may have been complaining about the upsurge in western religions. My guess would be, people probably find their Truths in those religions, perhaps they make more sense to them than christianity.

P.S The Harry Potter series are bestsellers, because they are well written, imaginative stories, that appeal to people of every age. The Famous Five series on the other hand…

Often times when we are comfortable, we do not remember this but when life brings us face to face with uncertainties like death(what does our intelligence say about life after death,since we need to be sure) we come to place when we really evaluate our concept of intelligence.

i'd say death isn't an uncertainty, it's pretty certain (as far this things go).


On the intelligence issue, I actually don't agree with the idea that irrational people aren't intelligent. By my reckoning, you have to have at least some intelligence before you can be irrational. What I'd say though, is that sometimes religion can act as a stumbling block to learning and thinking. Often a time, people would rather stew in their ignorance, than learn or see anything that may cause them to think for themselves, even for a little while.

kimba:

@jagunlabiIf I may ask why the merry go round:
which came first: The Religion or The Intelligence.

Intelligence.

Question: Where do you place Mans Natural born Innate Knowledge of God? before religion? after religion, and before intelligence? or after religion and intelligence?

I'm not completely sure of what you are trying to ask, but man doesn't have an inate knowledge of any God. The knowledge of God(s) stem more often than not, from nuture.

Answer: Man, while he tries to partially deny, totally deny, partially exagerrate, totally exagerrate his Inborn knowledge of God, falls into religion.

Untrue. Everybody is an atheist in the end (glib assertations are so much fun, I thought I'd try one too.)

mrlawng:

It so amazing how the responses of the so called intelligent people on this post is judgemental, prejudicial and stereotypical. Hmmh, It makes you wonder what their definition of intelligence is? oh i know, "seeing thing their way"

Hmm

Is rationality equal to intelligence. Not in all cases.

Not at all.

I read about a sucessful mexican business man in the Harvard business review. He didnt apply any standard rational business model to his operations, yet he made it to fortune 500. There is the saying in business that there is the rational and irrational school of thought and there is no proof that one works better than the other. (reference HArvard Business review)

Good.

its so amazing how the onl response of the so-called rational people to things they can't explain is: There must be a rational explanation to all this"

That's because if you think about it, there's more often than not, a "rational" explanation.

Human intelligence is God's intelligence
Human wisdom is God's wisdom
So why does religions always try to prevent the free use of these divine gifts which is the human intellect?
Are these religions afraid that man will eventually become little gods and have no more use for them?
Na questions.

KAG:

That's because if you think about it, there's more often than not, a "rational" explanation.

Nope. That's because YOU think there has to be, when in actual fact, there's none.

In response to the question, religion does not hinder the use of intelligence in anyway (depending on how you see or define 'religion'). As a matter of fact, if followed properly, religion helps improve the application of your intelligence. It's only quite unfortunate that most people who practise religion do not allow their minds to become open to other things, thereby making them seem unintelligent.

goodguy:

Nope. That's because YOU think there has to be, when in actual fact, there's none.

A man keels over dead on the street, there's more often than not, a "rational" explanation for why it happened.
An professional athlete suddenly builds bulk in no time, and is running a lot faster than he/she should, there usually is a "rational" explanation for the change.
Lightening splits the sky, and thunder rumbles, there is a "rational" explanation for their occurences.

So,let me reiterate my words, "more often than not, there's a "rational" explanation". My guess is you missed my point, that or I missed your point.

Let me repost what someone said earlier:

How do people who indulge in money ritual actually get the money and how scientifically is in connected to the people they kill?

Moreso;

What scientific or rational explanations do you have for someone who dreams about been warned in a dream, and the consequences of not following the warnings, in reality, actually comes to pass?

How rational is it for someone to prophesy and the exact thing that was foretold came to pass?

How rational is it for someone to pray and that prayer eventually gets answered? Mere luck? Coincidence? Naah, I don't want to hear that.

Note: I only want to know if there's indeed a rational explanation for everything that happens in life.

goodguy:

Let me repost what someone said earlier:

How do people who indulge in money ritual actually get the money and how scientifically is in connected to the people they kill?

They don't. That's probably why they are usually anecdotal tales.

Moreso;

What scientific or rational explanations do you have for someone who dreams about been warned in a dream, and the consequences of not following the warnings, in reality, actually comes to pass?

People dream several dreams per night, which obviously adds up as weeks and months go by; which means the chances of having an experience in real life, that would correspond to at least one remembered dream, are pretty high.

How rational is it for someone to prophesy and the exact thing that was foretold came to pass?

This maybe downto bad memory, but I don't think I've ever heard any prophecy that was exact. they are usually worded so vaguely, they can be fufilled by almost anyone or circumstance. Other times the "prophecy" is given such a long span of life, that eventually it has no choice but to be fufilled (I suppose that could also fall under vague).

How rational is it for someone to pray and that prayer eventually gets answered? Mere luck? Coincidence? Naah, I don't want to hear that.

How rational is it for someone to pray, and that prayer never getting answered? Prayer, synchronicities, placebo effect, positive thinking… all more or less the same in my opinion, only difference is prayer is believed to be some kind of a magic tool that illogically changes the mind of an Omni- deity (in the case of most Christians).

Note: I only want to know if there's indeed a rational explanation for everything that happens in life.

I don't know if there is a "rational" explanation for everything in life, but that of course wasn't my point. My point was, people tend to look for a rational explanation, because more often than not, there is one.

@KAG Wouldn't that be akin to the placebo effect? Which like acts of faith, also results in sometimes "miraculous" occurences
I have only selected this from the lists of your responses to my post and |I do only because they have the same theme(your response that is).you will never attempt to explain it.You can give it a name but you cannot explain.you will not deny it but you cannot explain it.Notice that you could not explain the trick you acknowledged.In fact the very fact that you acknowledged that it was a 'trick' within the very explainable elements of science that we see and experience with our senses-which forms the very basis of the natural intelligence that religion transcends -suggests to me that you know that there are such experiences.

A religious person can give you an explanation for such things that cannot be explained.At l;east |I know there are explanations in the Bible for such occurrence and it is not the placebo effect.That is psychological! WE are talking about people who were diagnosed with terminal illnesses.

And in your response to death, you(and infact anyone who takes your line of argument) will stumble here.You cant explain it with your natural intelligence. Watch close as this discourse goes that all of you will come to that point where you attribute what you don't know to something very close that your natural intelligence will carry.

I will indulge you in another puzzle:If you ever get to hear of an agemo festival in Yoruba land, attend it if you can-if not for anything but for the purpose of this discourse.The Agemo is a round that people generally believe is inhabited by a person.The only problems is the fact it can become flat all of a sudden.How does the intelligence that you boast of explain that?Where did the supposed person inside it go?what happened to his innards? I repeat what natural laws of intelligence were at play?

OK.I imagine your response.It is just, and then you go quiet.The men who practice these things and many other things will laugh at you.Our people have a proverb 'Omo kekere o mo ogun.On pe ni efo"( It is only a child that does not know the power of a charm that calls it vegetable)

people,there is more to this life than meets the eye!

PS: And when I said that death was uncertain, i meant people really dont know when it will come;not that the act of giving up the ghost is uncertain.And since I remembered that, where do people go when they die?Is death merely the absence of oxygen in the lungs?

mrlawng:

its so amazing how the onl response of the so-called rational people to things they can't explain is: There must be a rational explanation to all this"

On the flip side, the faith guys believe there must be a supernatural undertone to the unexplained. But I remain more comfortable with scientific discoveries, that have served mankind well over the years, than religious dogmas that has brought mankind division and enmity.

gidig:

@KAG Wouldn't that be akin to the placebo effect? Which like acts of faith, also results in sometimes "miraculous" occurences
I have only selected this from the lists of your responses to my post and |I do only because they have the same theme(your response that is).you will never attempt to explain it.You can give it a name but you cannot explain.you will not deny it but you cannot explain it.Notice that you could not explain the trick you acknowledged.

What trick? The "quarter out of the ear" trick? I'd explain it, but that might spoil the magic for you, and you might stop believing magicians have special powers. Wouldn't want that now, would we? About placebo effects, not everything about the way they work is known, but then again, I wasn't trying to explain placebo effects, I was merely pointing out how, like acts of faith in a particular deity, they also produce "miraculous" effects.

In fact the very fact that you acknowledged that it was a 'trick' within the very explainable elements of science that we see and experience with our senses-which forms the very basis of the natural intelligence that religion transcends -suggests to me that you know that there are such experiences.

Look up the word trick in the dictionary, I'm not in the mood for word play and semantics.

A religious person can give you an explanation for such things that cannot be explained.At l;east |I know there are explanations in the Bible for such occurrence and it is not the placebo effect.That is psychological! WE are talking about people who were diagnosed with terminal illnesses.

So you do know what the placebo effect is all about. By the way, people with terminal illnesses also have "miraculous" cures without faith, or prayers to a deity, a good example that immediately springs to mind, is Lance Armstrong.

And in your response to death, you(and infact anyone who takes your line of argument) will stumble here.You can't explain it with your natural intelligence. Watch close as this discourse goes that all of you will come to that point where you attribute what you don't know to something very close that your natural intelligence will carry.

What, that death is a certainty? Yeah, that's a tough one to explain.

I will indulge you in another puzzle:If you ever get to hear of an agemo festival in Yoruba land, attend it if you can-if not for anything but for the purpose of this discourse.The Agemo is a round that people generally believe is inhabited by a person.The only problems is the fact it can become flat all of a sudden.How does the intelligence that you boast of explain that?Where did the supposed person inside it go?what happened to his innards? I repeat what natural laws of intelligence were at play?

Considering I have no idea what you're trying to say, On closer inspection, it seems you are asking how magicians make their assistants disappear, or something. Well, who can tell this things, I've heard magicians are all aliens with ray guns that they can use to both dissolve, and re-combine humans.

OK.I imagine your response.It is just, and then you go quiet.

I bet that made sense to you (what you wrote).

The men who practice these things and many other things will laugh at you.Our people have a proverb 'Omo kekere o mo ogun.On pe ni efo"( It is only a child that does not know the power of a charm that calls it vegetable)

Well, my people have a proverb, "Ockham's razor often helps to discard the irrelevant logic of the superstitious, so use it." , okay I just made that up, but my people would probably have proverbs like that.

people,there is more to this life than meets the eye!

Of course.

PS: And when I said that death was uncertain, i meant people really don't know when it will come;not that the act of giving up the ghost is uncertain.And since I remembered that, where do people go when they die?

Some six feet under, others cremation, others left on the street to rot, and others cadavers in the aid of medicine.

Is death merely the absence of oxygen in the lungs?

For a long time, yes.

Sorry evryone, in my last post in refrence to the 'Agemo' example, I meant 'round mat'

@idekeson,
The question really is  not that being a religious person means that one denies the role of science.I think no one has alluded to that yet!what we are saying is  simply to establish if whether  that being religious implies less intelligence.And in doing so, I have arrived at that point where intelligence that the non-religious person has may not be entirely adequate for the intelligent explanation of certain things we have in life.

I said in the post before this that what people who believe that all intelligence is natural do is to deny the existence of such realities and assume a superior state over people who in addition to ackowledging natural intelligence, recognise that there are issues beyond our natural intelligence.

Against my prediction that you'd attempt to explain certain phenomenon,you have spent quite sometime attnding to every words.You are so detailed.The trick you reffred to can you humour me and expalin it?

Better still how does David Copperfeild allow himself to be tied and locked up in a safe at the top of a building loaded with explosives;blown up and emerges from underneath a cloth with an inscription? Oh! It is just a trick.

Really, please explain that trick using this great natural intelligence you are endowed with.I will only write that for now seeing that you do so much anatomy on my ordinary post!

PS: I am enjoying your response KAG.

gidig:

Against my prediction that you'd attempt to explain certain phenomenon,you have spent quite sometime attnding to every words.You are so detailed.

Bad habit.

The trick you reffred to can you humour me and expalin it?

Different wys of doing it, easiest is to palm the coin, and then pretend to pull it out of the kid's ear. Another is to hide it between the fingers, so the palm looks empty, then with a flourih pretend to pull it out of the kid's ear. That's magic.

Better still how does David Copperfeild allow himself to be tied and locked up in a safe at the top of a building loaded with explosives;blown up and emerges from underneath a cloth with an inscription? Oh! It is just a trick.

It is just a trick, a clever one, but just a trick. I've a feeling it might have something to do with a false bottom, and a dummy, but that's just a feeling. Let me guess, your explanation is probably demonic powers, yes?

Really, please explain that trick using this great natural intelligence you are endowed with.I will only write that for now seeing that you do so much anatomy on my ordinary post!

PS: I am enjoying your response KAG.

Intelligence = over rated.

KAG:

They don't. That's probably why they are usually anecdotal tales.

And even those who openly confess that they were once engaged in such stuffs?

KAG:

People dream several dreams per night, which obviously adds up as weeks and months go by; which means the chances of having an experience in real life, that would correspond to at least one remembered dream, are pretty high.

This is just an assertion. I need a very rational explanation. I'm old and wise enough to differentiate between what I have experienced in reality and what I've seen in my dreams. Nothing adds up as nothing. I guess it's even Science itself that conflicts with human intelligence sometimes. :rolls eyes:

KAG:

This maybe downto bad memory, but I don't think I've ever heard any prophecy that was exact. they are usually worded so vaguely, they can be fufilled by almost anyone or circumstance. Other times the "prophecy" is given such a long span of life, that eventually it has no choice but to be fufilled (I suppose that could also fall under vague).

It's a good thing you've admitted to not been sure. Well, I have witnessed and personally experienced fulfilled prophecies. Do you know the death of Bola Ige was prophesied by a prophet just some weeks before his death? Well, it wasn't publicised so I don't expect you to know.

KAG:

How rational is it for someone to pray, and that prayer never getting answered?

I once got this sent to me:

If God answers your prayers, he simply tested your faith.
If God does not answer on time, he's testing your patience.
If God does not answer at all, he has better plans for you.

KAG:

Prayer, synchronicities, placebo effect, positive thinking… all more or less the same in my opinion, only difference is prayer is believed to be some kind of a magic tool that illogically changes the mind of an Omni- deity (in the case of most Christians).

Good thing it's your opinion.

KAG:

I don't know if there is a "rational" explanation for everything in life, but that of course wasn't my point. My point was, people tend to look for a rational explanation, because more often than not, there is one.

And my own point is: For those things that do not have rational explanations, how do we explain their occurences?

goodguy:

And even those who openly confess that they were once engaged in such stuffs?

Are most likely lying, deluded, or are/were so superstitious they interpreted any type of good fortune as a direct result of mumbo jumbo.

This is just an assertion. I need a very rational explanation.

It is a rational explanation. Most people have dreamt about buildings on fire at least one point in their lifes, some dream of a building on fire, the world trade center catches fire, ergo they predicted it. That or they only remembered the one dream out of many that coincidentally came to pass; which incidenatlly is what most people do.

I'm old and wise enough to differentiate between what I have experienced in reality and what I've seen in my dreams. Nothing adds up as nothing.

I young and wise enough to know the human urge to believe some kind of prophetic leaning lie in them.

I guess it's even Science itself that conflicts with human intelligence sometimes. :rolls eyes:

Actually, yes it does sometimes. See the belief in a geocentric planetary system, spontaneous generation, and quantum physics, for some examples.

It's a good thing you've admitted to not been sure. Well, I have witnessed and personally experienced fulfilled prophecies.

You mean prophecies like on the 21st of June, George Bush will go into a coma caused by a stroke, or sometime in the future, a womn will meet a man and fall in love? The former is an example of an xact prophecy, and if that came to pass, that would be a prophecy, the latter on the other hand…

Do you know the death of Bola Ige was prophesied by a prophet just some weeks before his death? Well, it wasn't publicised so I don't expect you to know.

Don't know the dude, but wht was the prophecy like, how old was Bola Ige and what health problems did he have, and more importantly, how was that "prophecy" recorded (for lack of a better owrd) before the death?

I once got this sent to me:
If God answers your prayers, he simply tested your faith.
If God does not answer on time, he's testing your patience.
If God does not answer at all, he has better plans for you.

So basically, no better thanmere chance.

Good thing it's your opinion.

Good opinion too (even if I do say so myself), especially the Omni- God thing, and changing its mind.

And my own point is: For those things that do not have rational explanations, how do we explain their occurences?

We fold our arms and invent new Gods to take away our fear of the big bad Universe, or we keep plugging away at it, until eventually we either find an explanation, a plausible explanation, or the future generation does.