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The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes - Religion (2) - Nairaland

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Poll: Tithe-paying is

An old-testament law: 55% (74 votes)
A new-testament requirement too: 44% (60 votes)
This poll has ended

Imagine You Own This Ride And Your Pastor Asked You To Sow A Seed With It / The Truth Your Pastor Would Not Tell You About Tithes: Tithing Is Unscriptural U / What Apostle Paul Had To Say About Tithes And Other Heretic Teachings (2) (3) (4)

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Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by KunleOshob(m): 12:31pm On Feb 21, 2008
EOA, i would read up the quotd scriptures you quoted when i get hold of the bible, i was just disappointed that you failed to comment on the most important part of that post which is hebrew 7 :11- 13 which states that the leviticel law must change!! I wonder why all our pastors are ignoring that statement

1 Like

Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by KunleOshob(m): 12:33pm On Feb 21, 2008
EOA, i would read up the quotd scriptures you quoted when i get hold of the bible, i was just disappointed that you failed to comment on the most important part of that post which is hebrew 7 :11- 13 which states that the leviticel law must change!! I wonder why all our pastors are ignoring that statement
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by KunleOshob(m): 3:29pm On Feb 21, 2008
EOA thanx for your response, but deuteronomy 14 :22-29 states clearly that you should eat the tithe of your produce in the presence of God it also said out of this tithe you should give the widow, stranger, orphan e.tc after that it said you should not forget the levite for the particular reason they have no land of there own. in effect in the levites were only included in the sharing of tithes because they have no land of thier own as decreed by God. How many pastors today can truly claim not to have land (property ) of their own. Any way i would have thought you would comment on the most important issue in the said post which was the quote of hebrews 7 11-13 which states clearly that tithing as no place under the priest hood of our lord Jesus christ, so even one is still confused as to what tithes really means the bible is clear that it is not revelant to christians.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by EOA(m): 3:45pm On Feb 21, 2008
@ KunleOshob

There is a difference between a Priest and the Levites. You pay your tithe to the priests not the levites. The Levites are tabernacle worker. The Priests are like the tabernacle officers. You must pay your TITHE to the priest, what is left is what you wilfully share with the levites, the poors etc. The tithe to the priest is only eaten by them and their wards and this is alway one-tenth.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Horus(m): 4:04pm On Feb 21, 2008
Dont give your money to your greedy pastor.Jesus never took from his congregation. He never passed around a basket or tray to receive pledges and donations at the end of each sermon. He never asked for a payment. Nor did he ever tell his disciples to accept money for their assistance as found in Matthew 10:8-10:
“Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by kolaoloye(m): 4:32pm On Feb 21, 2008
@Horus,
PLEASE DON`T DEVIATE . IF YOU HAVE A SOLID REASON WHY TITHE MUST NOT BE PAID
JUST COME WITH YOUR PROOFS. THIS THREAD IS A SERIOUS MATTER PLEEEASE.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by EOA(m): 4:43pm On Feb 21, 2008
@

KunleOshob:

EOA, i would read up the quotd scriptures you quoted when i get hold of the bible, i was just disappointed that you failed to comment on the most important part of that post which is hebrew 7 :11- 13 which states that the leviticel law must change!! I wonder why all our pastors are ignoring that statement

What to be abolished in the Levitical laws Jesus has abolished and what to be sustained, He sustained, Jesus disemphasised Sabbath, abolish any form of animal sacrifice, special washing of hand and other form of washings etc, but he commended tithing. Like I said before, what Jesus Christ commanded and/or commeded is what I believe we should do.

Levite is the general name of the tribe of the Priest and the generation of Levi. That someone belong to the royal family does not entitled him/her to royalties, it is only the reigning person in the royal family that is entitled to it. Let me warn, the devil will prefer you use your substance (money) you should have set out to pay tithe to do benevolence than for you to want to pay tithe. All form of giving carries its own specific/particular reward. Consider the testimonies of some of the contributors. I had my doubts initially about tithing initially, but I'm now persuaded about it. Jesus Christ talked about you sowing and reaping 30, or 60, or 100 folds. What do you think determines the level of reward?. Tithing is by personal conviction, who taught Abraham to tithe, or Jacob to Tithe. These were just step of faith by these Patriarches.

Brother, SHALOM!
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Horus(m): 4:51pm On Feb 21, 2008
kola oloye:

@Horus,
PLEASE DON`T DEVIATE . IF YOU HAVE A SOLID REASON WHY TITHE MUST NOT BE PAID
JUST COME WITH YOUR PROOFS. THIS THREAD IS A SERIOUS MATTER PLEEEASE.
It is YOU who deviate.I am serious.take your own bible and go to:Matthew 10:8-10:
“Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.”
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Image123(m): 2:25am On Feb 22, 2008
KunleOshob:

Image123 i am beginning to suspect that you are a pastor who benefits from tithes and specializes in quoting the bible out of context otherwise when you were quoting hebrews 7 you would not have left out verses 11-13 which stated that "it was on the basis of the levitical priesthood that the law was given to the people of israel" it also said "the levitical law must change" because the levitical priesthood is of a lower order to the priesthood of our lord Jesus christ. it also stated that jesus christ is not from the tribe of levites that collects tithes. It is preachers like image 123 that consistenly manupulate the bible to suit their purposes. As far as i know everything thing i have written in this articule is the undiluted word of God and not what somebody as manupulated it to be, and that is why i backed everything i wrote with the scriptures. if anyone is in doubt please pick up your bibles and crosscheck

Hi,Kunle.lets take it easy here.One I'm not a pastor of a church,I'm a christian bro.The fact that tithes are being abused 2day doesn't make it wrong.same goes for miracles,healings,prayers,deliverance,tongues etc
2Co 2:17  For we are not as many, hawking the Word of God; but as of sincerity, but as of God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.
Now,I want to believe you are a child of God and not just some athiest babbler looking for debate.As children of God,of course we learn everytime and there is no crime in it when you have new understanding of the word of God on any area.But we need to be sincere and ready to learn.Firstly,I'll like to be clearer on your discuss.Are you saying that it isn't biblical to pay tithes today OR are you saying tithes today shouldn't be in form of currency but as tithe of crops,oil etc 'as in OT times'?Those are 2 different views you know?
Secondly,when I quoted Hebrews 7,I quoted the verses that I thot were relevant to my point,I wasn't trying 2 manipulate you.I thought I didn't need to comment on the whole chapter but on specific verses that summmarized the passage.You need to read the whole book of Hebrews Kunle,not just 7verse11-13,so as 'not to leave anything out' as you said.The book of Hebrews is written to show the superiority of Christ,the mediator of the new (better) covenant.The Hebrews(Jews) had and still av a strong belief in the old covenant which was started during the time of Moses.They revere the old covenant.Even the Jewish converts to Christainity still found it difficult to leave their old ways and hold on to Jesus only and so the writer of the epistle(God) tried to help them.Hebrews1v4  tells us that Jesus is better than the angels,then 2v9 tells us it is better than any man,3v3 says he is better than Moses,then he is a better high priest than Aaaron and consequently a better priest than Levi(d levites).He says Christ is a better priest because His priesthood is after the order of Melchizedek,a man who Levi's Ggrandfather(Abraham) paid tithes to.Tithes aren't really the issue that was focused here but the beta Christ priest as against Levite priestsLets talk small Hebrews7
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Image123(m): 3:51am On Feb 22, 2008
Heb 8:1  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such a high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Heb 7:1  For this Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him;
Heb 7:2  To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;
Heb 7:3  Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.
        Profile of Melchizedek,a very great person[/b]Heb 7:4  Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
         [b]The great Abraham PAID TITHES to this Greater person


Heb 7:5  And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:
Heb 7:6  But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
Heb 7:7  And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.
              He starts to nail His pro Jesus defence as being better than Levi priesthood.He says, Jews,Levites are to take your tithes but there is someone levi paid tithe to.A greater priest Melchizedek,so Jews Levi isn't alpha and omega[/b]Heb 7:8  And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.
                                [b]The Levites aren't eternal


Heb 7:9  And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10  For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him.
                         [b] see jews, The levites paid tithes in Abraham.There is someone higher in rank,they are less blessed by the greater.They aren't ultimate,Christ is![/b]Heb 7:11  If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
                  [b] He's refering to the Psalms110v4(a prophecy about a priest to come after the type of Melchizedek,not after Aaron).He has given proof(to the unbiased jew) that Christ is beta than Levi.He continues with the main theme.NT is beta than OT,Christ is better than OT laws given under Moses ratified by the Levitical priesthood. Levitical sacrifices arenot the goal,Christ's sacrifice is.[/b]Heb 7:12  For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.
Heb 7:13  For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14  For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Judah; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.
Heb 7:15  And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchizedek there ariseth another priest,
                                        The law changed is seen in v16.He says Jesus is the priest that was prophesied of.His own covenant is ratified by the sacrifice of himself,not bulls and goats.the priest has changed,the sacrifice has changed,the conditions(law) has changed.The ceremonial laws of cleaniness(clean and unclean animals,unclean humans that need to be put apart for, days,washed u know),heave,burnt,wave etc offerings,feast of this and that ,many of those leviticus laws have to of a necessity be changed.
Heb 7:16  Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17  For he testifieth, Thou art a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 7:18  For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
                           All those laws made nothing perfect.Its not in any way refering to tithes as making nothing perfect.He is taliking of those ceremonial laws.Compare 10v1.
I'm sure you know the rest of the story.I pray God 'll give you understanding
. smiley
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by seguno2: 8:23am On Feb 22, 2008
@ all,

You can always search the bible anytime you are online from sites such as:

http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php

http://bible.oremus.org/

FTR, I stopped paying tithes to my church a few months back as I grew as a Christian. Now I give a small portion of it to the church and teh rest I give to organisations that assist the poor and spread the Gospel such as The Gideons. You know what friends I have been more blessed since and I don't mean in money only but in all realms as well.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by seguno2: 8:32am On Feb 22, 2008
@image123,

How many times did Abraham pay tithes to Melchidezec?
Was it a practice or a one-off?
Does the fact that Abraham paid it one-off not correspond to the every three years stipulated in deut 14 : 22 -29?

Further, once the pastor has enough food (basic needs) in God's store (his household)and he does not re-distribute and is seen to re-distribute the surplus to poor people & foreigners then you will be ignoring your duty as a christian to either correct him or reduce your tithe to him accordingly.

Just another example of what Christendom has turned into by most of its leaders:

http://www.saharareporters.com/www/report/detail/?id=510
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by dequeen(f): 9:54am On Feb 22, 2008
tithe is a must 4 X-tain, if u are a X-tain & u dont pay ur tithe, it means u are nt following wat God commanded us 2 do. u are nt paying ur tithe because of Pastor or any body, because @ d end of dis world u will reap all what u hv sow. if u lk pay ur tithe and if u dont like dont pay it.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Enigma(m): 10:08am On Feb 22, 2008
Tithing is NOT an obligation for Christians. Also, a Christian is blessed simply for being a Christian and this is not dependent on whether he "tithes" or not. Tithing as an obligation has passed away and is not truly part of Christian doctrine except that mainly Old Testament scriptures touching on tithing in the pre-Christian era have been misinterpreted and misapplied with the consequent result of mentally enslaving many well-intended Christians.

Search your Bible carefully, if tithing was that important, why did Jesus Christ Himself not stress and emphasise it? Compare the passing reference that he made to it when rebuking Pharisees to how tithing is stressed, stressed and stressed again today. Also ask yourself: how many times did Peter, Paul, James or any of the other apostles preach tithing in the Bible --- zero, nil, zilch, nada!

James even went as far as saying true religion is to look after widows, orphans etc; this accords with what Jesus taught: 'as long as you do it for the least of these you do it for me'; it also accords with several passages of the Old Testament directing that "tithes" should be shared with widows, orphans and aliens.

Instead of "paying tithes" to any church or pastor, you are more blessed in line with Jesus' teaching to share the money with the poor and less privileged.

Don't be enslaved by superstition in the form of "if I don't tithe, I won't be blessed" because it is a big big lie.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by KunleOshob(m): 11:41am On Feb 22, 2008
EOA it is not true that Jesus commended the pharises for collecting tithes, the truth is that Jesus rebuke them for paying too much emphasis on tithes as it is being done today, read luke 11 :42 which says "But WOE unto you pharises For ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herb and pass over JUDGMENT and the LOVE OF GOD: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone "
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by KunleOshob(m): 11:56am On Feb 22, 2008
Enigma thanx for your contribution, you wrote exactly what was on my mind. How come christ never preach or collected tithes? how none of his apostles ever collected or preached about it. If you go through the works of all the early apostles paul, peter, james, john e.tc which was written to the early christians to admonish them on chritian living (which we still learn from today) non of them ever made any mention of tithes let alone collect it tithes is clearly not required from us as a christian otherwise we would have seen it in the works of the apostles which were written to guide us as christians.
Also i would like to contribute something else, that tithing is just one of the 613 laws of Moses, how come it is only the ten commandments and tithing that is being preached today. why are we not practising all the other over 600 laws? the answer is simple Jesus paid for it in full when he died for us. And for those of you that still believe in tithing maybe you should bother to find out how tithing got smuggled into the christian doctrine,( because neither Jesus nor any of the apostles ever preached it)
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by KunleOshob(m): 12:00pm On Feb 22, 2008
NO TITHING IN THE CHURCH OF THE APOSTLES
We have Scriptural proof that no such law or custom as Christian tithing was taught or practiced in the Church by the early apostles. Their epistles are totally devoid of any such tithing custom or law. Gentile converts were never taught to tithe to anyone. Although the temple and priesthood in Jerusalem remained until 70 AD, not even Jewish converts were taught to give their tithes to the Apostles rather than to the temple priests.
In the Acts 15 Jerusalem Conference we find outlined what the apostles all agreed was necessary for the newly converted Gentiles to practice, and by inspiration of the Holy Spirit of God, tithing is conspicuously missing. Some believing Pharisees wanted the apostles to teach the Gentiles to keep the Law of Moses (which certainly contained the law of tithing, Acts 15:5), but the apostles headed by Peter, James, and Paul would not hear of it (Acts 15:28-29)! Yet, what is one of the very first legislated duties taught to Gentile converts by the Church today? It is that they must tithe their annual salaries to the Church. Where did this unscriptural law of Christian tithing come from?
Notice this telling bit of history from the my Encyclopedia Britannica, "Tithes in Christendom—The earliest authentic example of anything like a law of the State enforcing payment appears to occur in the capitularies [ecclesiasticals] of Charlemagne at the end of the 8th or beginning of the 9th century. Tithes were by that enactment to be applied to the maintenance of the bishop, clergy, the poor, and the fabric of the church. In the course of time the principle of payment of tithes was extended FAR BEYOND its original intention. Thus they became transferable to laymen and saleable like ordinary property, in spite of the injunctions of the third Lateran Council; and they became payable OUT OF SOURCES OF INCOME [not just farming and herding, but other trades and occupations and salaries paid in the form of money] NOT ORIGINALLY TITHABLE." (1963, volume 22, page 253, ‘TITHES’).
The Catholic Church knows its own history. Here is how tithing got back into the Church after being absent for nearly five centuries:
"As the Church expanded and various institutions arose, it became necessary to make laws which would insure the proper and permanent support of the clergy. The payment of tithes was adopted from the Old Law, The earliest positive legislation on the subject seems to be contained in the letter of the bishops assembled at Tours in 567 and the [canons] of the Council of Macon in 585."—The Catholic Encyclopedia.
They "extended" their base of tithe collecting to eventually include all forms of income. All Christian scholars know that although money was in wide use in ancient Israel, it was never a titheable commodity. But modern Christian pastors of God’s sheep don’t want tithes of goats or oil or corn—they want money—cold hard cash. God has a word to the "shepherds of the sheep," and it is the very same message that He had for the Levites in the book of Malachi. And it is this:
"My people have been lost sheep [Why? How did they get that way?] their SHEPHERDS have caused them to go astray" (Jer. 50:6).
Was Israel consciously aware of the fact that; they were being led astray by their spiritual leaders? Not most, and neither is the world of Christendom today aware that they are being lead astray by their spiritual leaders.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by dafidixone(m): 12:18pm On Feb 22, 2008
NO TITHING IN THE CHURCH OF THE APOSTLES

The Apostles are those who accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour. They are not those that question the Authority of God. grin So there might not be any need to record if they pay tithe or not. The bible made us to understand that they share everything in common. They even pay more beyound tithe, they sold all they have and brought it to the Church. Ever read the Story of Ananiah and Saphirah? grin Man if I may ask you was it commanded that people should sell their possessions and give to Church? grin

Read your bible do not people read it to you grin cheesy

Tithe is a command and there can not be a true Christian without tithe payment. Jesus approve of it so though not written but I am quite sure the Apostles do obey all the Command of God on giving.

Man don't be greedy give what belong to God to Him. smiley

Beware of devourer. Thou shall not steal. grin
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Horus(m): 12:46pm On Feb 22, 2008


Church leaders accept tithes in the name of God. They'll say “God needs your help building the church, ” What does god need with a multi-million dollar church?Nothing. These are the same so-called church leaders that you'll find riding in fancy cars, eating the best foods, living in expensive homes and living the life of wealthy people while their followers scrape and struggle to do “God's will” by tithing.
These so-called leaders will lead congregations in the worse of the worse neighborhoods and on their way to church to preach on Sundays or Saturdays or whatever day they declare to be the Sabbath They will step over the homeless or the less fortunate.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by seguno2: 4:02pm On Feb 22, 2008
@ dafidixone,

The selling & sharing of proceeds in the early church has nothing to do with tithes as done today.
Rather it conforms with Christ's underlying doctrine of sharing your wealth with poor fellows. That was what the apostles did. Moreover it is what the old testament also enjoins Israelites to do, NOT to give all your tithe everytime to the levite (pastor).
Don't let anyone intimidate you with the story of Ananiah and Saphirah, they reneged on their undertaking to share the proceeds of their property sale after they must have shared in the proceeds of other members.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by KunleOshob(m): 5:09pm On Feb 22, 2008
@dafidixone
May be you didn't read my post properly or you didn't understand it, the apostles were the early christians and they had the responsibilty of spreading the gospel firsthand (undiluted) becuase they learnt direclty from out lord Jesus christ. They set the standard fot the church as we have it today, believe me if tithe was required of christians they would have preached to the early christian converts. As i said ealier tithing was smuggled into christianity by the catholics over 500 years after the death of christ. (go and do your research).  As regards christian giving freely from the heart i am 100% in support of it, i believe we should give as God as blessed us, and the giving should not only be to the church but also to to less priviledge around us.
Yes tithe was a commandment given to the people of Israel but never given to christians. That apart i have already shown you biblical evidence that 1, tithe is not money, it is food meant to be eaten and shared in the presence of God, 2, That is was not the exclusive preserve of the levites contrary to what is being preached today, 3, that the bible in the book of hebrew said the levitical law (of tithes) must change as it is not relevant to the priesthood of our lord Jesus christ and jesus was not from the tribe of the levites were they collect tithes, 4, And that levites were only allowed to collect tithes for the only reason they were not allowed to have land of there own (which is not relvant today becuase today pastors are allowed to have whatever property they desire) ( i wonder why pastors today don't emphasis the fact that levites were not allowed to own property in those days and extend that part of the levite law to themselves) At least in the catholic church were tithe was introduced to the christian doctrine, priests are not allowed to own any property of there own unlike what obtains in today"s mordern day churches. It is today's pastors that are guilty of manipulating the bible to suit their purpose and i hope they all remember they would give account to God oneday.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Image123(m): 12:38am On Feb 23, 2008
seguno2:

@seguno2

How many times did Abraham pay tithes to Melchidezec?
Was it a practice or a one-off?
Does the fact that Abraham paid it one-off not correspond to the every three years stipulated in deut 14 : 22 -29?

Further, once the pastor has enough food (basic needs) in God's store (his household)and he does not re-distribute and is seen to re-distribute the surplus to poor people & foreigners then you will be ignoring your duty as a christian to either correct him or reduce your tithe to him accordingly.

Just another example of what Christendom has turned into by most of its leaders:

http://www.saharareporters.com/www/report/detail/?id=510

2Ti 3:16  All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17  That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
   As Christians,we do not need to have our orders repeated severally before we obey them.One mention is correct and enough.It might be repeated for emphasis sake but repetition doesn't make it more true.The fact that father Abraham paid tithes is enough for me,I'm a child of Abraham and his blessings are mine.The fact that Jesus said the religious people ought to pay tithes and not leave the other undone is enough for me.I don't need a 7 point apologia on tithes from Paul or anybody again.I don't even need it to be repeated in all the other gospel books.One instruction in righteousness from the master is enough for me.I'm His sheep,thats why.Not a goat
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by seguno2: 9:06am On Feb 23, 2008
Image123:

2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Is that what is happening in today's Naija churches: thoroughly furnished unto all good works
I do not see that, which is why I have found alternative means of fulfilling God's instruction to me and I am grateful to Him for His unfailing faithfulness.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by dafidixone(m): 12:21pm On Feb 23, 2008
@dafidixone
May be you didn't read my post properly or you didn't understand it, the apostles were the early christians and they had the responsibilty of spreading the gospel firsthand (undiluted) becuase they learnt direclty from out lord Jesus christ. They set the standard fot the church as we have it today, believe me if tithe was required of christians they would have preached to the early christian converts. As i said ealier tithing was smuggled into christianity by the catholics over 500 years after the death of christ. (go and do your research). As regards christian giving freely from the heart i am 100% in support of it, i believe we should give as God as blessed us, and the giving should not only be to the church but also to to less priviledge around us.
Yes tithe was a commandment given to the people of Israel but never given to christians. That apart i have already shown you biblical evidence that 1, tithe is not money, it is food meant to be eaten and shared in the presence of God, 2, That is was not the exclusive preserve of the levites contrary to what is being preached today, 3, that the bible in the book of hebrew said the levitical law (of tithes) must change as it is not relevant to the priesthood of our lord Jesus christ and jesus was not from the tribe of the levites were they collect tithes, 4, And that levites were only allowed to collect tithes for the only reason they were not allowed to have land of there own (which is not relvant today becuase today pastors are allowed to have whatever property they desire) ( i wonder why pastors today don't emphasis the fact that levites were not allowed to own property in those days and extend that part of the levite law to themselves) At least in the catholic church were tithe was introduced to the christian doctrine, priests are not allowed to own any property of there own unlike what obtains in today"s mordern day churches. It is today's pastors that are guilty of manipulating the bible to suit their purpose and i hope they all remember they would give account to God oneday.[/quote

Thank you for you response. I have always read post here with every attention I have at every point in time. I have clear understanding of your argument. But there are two issues going on in your tought before making this posting. I must say one of the issue seems to me you have a valid point.

The issue of tithe is non negotiable, it is command and without overemphasising issue tithe is to be paid by every genuine Christian. smiley

You also raise one issue that I will like to clearify, that: "tithes is not in money" I thing what you should have put it in the form that; "tithe is not neccessarily must be in money". It is 10% of your proceeds.

That being as it may, I think the issue you had in mind before expressing your sentimental view is that; Why today's pastor lay more emphasis on the issue of tithe payment and they ignore other command that they must not acquire properties in their own name. I also feel a genuine man of God must pay attention to this.

Beyound this, Church should also fulfil there own obligation by giving out of what they inherit to the Levites who are represented in our mist today as Clergy.

I feel strongly that you should review your posting on tithe payment to underscore emphasis of the Pastors on Tithes and ignoring the issue of wealth acquisition among them.

Shallom!
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Image123(m): 12:06am On Feb 24, 2008
seguno2:

Is that what is happening in today's Naija churches: thoroughly furnished unto all good works
I do not see that, which is why I have found alternative means of fulfilling God's instruction to me and I am grateful to Him for His unfailing faithfulness.
If you don't see good works happening in any church in nigeria,well maybe you haven't looked well enuf.remember Elijah,he didn't know of the 70 clean prophets.It isn't much of your duty to assess the way churches are been managed.leave that to God,the owner of the church and pay your money not as unto men but as unto God.Col3v23.David respected Saul,not because of saul but because of God.and maybe you should find prayerfully another church.we have some really good biblical churches in Nigeria.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Lady2(f): 5:13am On Feb 25, 2008
[b]"Thank you seguno2 for your contribution, you seem to understand the issue at stake more than the average commentator who is just passionate about the issue and has not bothered to understand what tithes really means or what God truly requires from us. I challenge everybody especially image 123 to read again deuteronomy 14: 22 - 29 which clearly explains what tithes is and also states clearly that it is not money becuase it is meant to be eaten in the presence of God. The ironic thing is that this passage also states that you could use your tithes for whatever your heart desires which could be food, meat or wine it doesn't say you must pay it to the church. I also challenge any body to point out the place in the bible were tithe was stated to be money, because money existed in those days contrary to what some peolpe would like you to believe. Even the book of Malachi which is quoted so often never defined tithes nor did it suggest it was money Tithes was defined in the book of deuteronomy and leviticus and neither of them suggested it was money. The definiton given to tithes is a mordern day invention to suit the convinience of those collecting it. As i said earlier to all those who feel aggrieved by the revelations they should go back to the bible and do a thorough study using the quoted scriptures as a guide. As i said i am not against anybody giving to the church or contributing to God's work, what i can't stand is the fraudulent way in which the meaning and purpose of tithes as been misinterpreted. "[/b]


Ur absolutely right, it doesn't say that it has to be money, it does however, have to be fruits of ur labour. So my brother if u get paid with sheeps and goats, then please present it to the Lord. Even those who are unepmlpoyued can give their time to the house of the Lord. So pls stop making excuses, if u feel u don't have enough money to cover ur bills, then go to the Lord in prayer. My advice is u give to the Lord and he sshall surely reward u. Abraham sacrificed his only son and God rewarded him by making him the father of all nations.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by KunleOshob(m): 12:36pm On Feb 25, 2008
@Lady
Thanx for your unsolicited advice. Firstly let me make myself clear on this topic, i have spent the last two years researching what the bible says about tithes, the meaning of tithes, it's purpose, it's reason and how it got in to our chucrh doctrine today, so i am not out to ask for advise from someone who knows little more than malachi 3 : 8 -10 about tithes. I have also been able to to established backed by bible quotations what tithes means, whom it is meant for and the reason for tithes. I have also established that the bible in the book of hebrews said the levithical law of tithing must change beause our lord Jesus christ does not require it. If you feel so strongly about tithes (and you are not benefitting from it) then i suggest you go and study your bible thourougly to have a true understanding of what tithes is. As i said in my original article "and ye shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free" this is my motive for writing this article, too many people are being made to suffer in the name of tithing for blessings that would necver come because the mordern interpretation of tithes is not scriptural and it is not required of christians. As i said i believe in giving to the church and to the needy, but we should not be under bondage to give, we should give with a free heart, it is only then that God would bless and reward us.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by KunleOshob(m): 12:47pm On Feb 25, 2008
@dadifixone
Yes deuteronomy 14 : 22-29 proves clearly that tithes is not money, In this passage was the only place in the bible that money was mentioned as regards to tithes. it says that if the place of worship is far, you can convert the tithes to money so it would be easy for you to carry it to the place of worship, upon getting to the place of worship the bible did not say you should give the money to the priest, it said you should use it to buy whatsoever your heart desires and eat it in the presence of God, it also said you should share the food with the poor and you should not forget the levites( for the sole reason they have no land of there own). Now if God had intended for tithe to be money, he won't have asked the people of israel to use the tithe money to buy whatever there soul desires and eat it in his presence he would have just told them to handover the money to the priests. I think this argument should put paid to the fact that tithes is not money and was NEVER  intended to be money. As i said earlier money tithes is a mordern day creation, it is not biblical. If any one as a superior argument back by scriptures, i would lkie to hear.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Mosetra(f): 2:10pm On Feb 25, 2008
The Bible says we should pay our tithes! Let no one deceive him/herself or be deceived by anyone. The Bible should be the standard of any true child of God and not the lives of men of God as it were. I see no reason why when it comes to commandment and obligations we are quick to saying we live under grace and not under the law therefore, my life is only in consonance with the New Testament. Are we now saying that the Old Testament be done away with? Did Christ not say he came to uphold the law? It doesn't matter how our pastors go about asking for tithes; it matters less what the monies are spent on. My tithe is one tenth of my income. If 90% is not enough for me, "stealing" the 10% would not make life any better.

I gave better arguments before against tithing. But when i tasted the Lord, i have come to know that He is sweet! I am a regular tither since 2005 and the promise associated with it has always being true. There is nothing as good as knowing that my devourers are rebuked just for giving up 10% of my income (which for some people is not even enough to recharge their phones in a month!).

God blesses us whether or not we pay our tithes! He does that because of we are His creatures. But there are specific blessings attached to specific spiritual exercises: fasting, alms giving, tithing, charitable giving. Let us not miss the point. Please!!!

Need i add that it is sheer ignorance that makes people rationalize the Bible? The word of God is not some literary piece where you compare and contrast chapters! To be a true christian you should be "docile" in believing the word of God. Only then will He come into your heart and give you insight, understanding and wisdom.

Shallom!!!
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by kolaoloye(m): 2:45pm On Feb 25, 2008
I SAID IT B4, WHY DON`T YOU PONDER OVER THIS AGAIN.
MATTHEW 5:17

The Fulfillment of the Law
17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

THOUGH IT IS WRITTEN THAT THERE SHOULD BE CHANGE OF LAWS BUT SINCE IT WAS NOT RECORDED DONE,WE STILL HAVE TO ABIDE.
                                                                     YOU CAN`T DECEIVE GOD.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by seguno2: 4:37pm On Feb 25, 2008
@ Kola,

Just in case you missed what I posted earlier:

1. Matthew 19:21 about the rich man to whom Jesus said "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor (not the temple/synagogue/church or even Jesus & His apostles)". This same message is recorded in Mark 10:21.

Does it not occur to you that if there was a law on tithe to be upheld, Christ would have told the rich man above to first pay his tithe before giving to the poor.
He did not because there is no such law to be upheld. Read the deut 14 : 22 -29 very well.
Re: The truth your pastor would not tell you about tithes by Image123(m): 4:09am On Feb 26, 2008
seguno2:

@ Kola,

Just in case you missed what I posted earlier:

1. Matthew 19:21 about the rich man to whom Jesus said "If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor (not the temple/synagogue/church or even Jesus & His apostles)". This same message is recorded in Mark 10:21.

Does it not occur to you that if there was a law on tithe to be upheld, Christ would have told the rich man above to first pay his tithe before giving to the poor.
He did not because there is no such law to be upheld. Read the deut 14 : 22 -29 very well.


there is a simplicity we have in Christ today(2cor11v3) that some Christians don't like.its unfortunate that many need FULL proof before obedience to simple almost insignificant(matt23v23) commands.This is contrary to the faith of most of the saints of old.They didn't have the 'show me where,are you sure,I'm not convinced' attitude.Its hard 4me to reason how you 'll say you can gladly give 100% or more to yourself and the 'poor' and you find it sacrilege to give just 10% to those of the household of God.
Anyway,lets remember that scripture must agree with scripture,Deut14:22-29 shouldn't be taken in isolation.In the bible,there are different types of tithes just as there are different types of offerings.Tithes are even sometimes classed under offerings.Recall 'bring ye ALL the tithes'?Let me quickly point out 3 different tithes in the law. Tithes to the levite in the temple(see deut12v5,6 or numbers18v21),tithes to levites and poor around you at home(see deut14v27-29),tithe for even youself(See deut12v17),tithes for God(nehemiah10v38,39),
I don't love going into history but for you,understand that there was a first tithe that was given to the Levites, out of which they paid a tenth part to the priests, Num18:24-28; Neh10:37, Neh10:38. Then of that which remained, the owners separated a second tithe, which they ate before the Lord the first and second year; and in the third year it was given to the Levites and to the poor, Deut14:28, Deut14:29. In the fourth and fifth years it was eaten again by the owners, and in the sixth year was given to the poor. The seventh year was a Sabbath to the land, and then all things were common, Exo_23:10, Exo_23:11.
Notice the progression explained above again.Deut14:22 says "tithe ALL" year after year(each year).then verses23-26 says eat second tithe with your household in Jerusalem,then verse27-29 says tithe(simply meaning one tenth) to levites[NB;not levite priests in Jerusalem] around you and the poorSaround you.

Once again,please note the different time frames and the different groups of people they were to offer tithes to.Now as believers,its important we realise that giving of alms is DIFFERENT from giving to GOD.We shouldn't compare our generous giving to the poor to our giving to God.God is not a beggar,He demands your tithes.Infact He accuses of robbery.That isn't to say that He is desperate for it.He wants us to give alms to the poor around us today and He also wants us to pay our tithes and offerings into HIs house.The world was majorly an agrarian society until recently some centuries ago.today,unlike then, they say the world is all about the benjamins.But if you are a farmer and you feel compelled to bring a tithe of your crops and not money,i think your church might accept it.But if you aren't, I think the most convenient one-tenth of your income will be money.God be with you

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