Since the debate surrounding this issue started, I have refrained from even reading opinions posted on this site in threads addressing the topic. I deliberately avoided reading them because I don't want to be influenced by them in any way. I wanted to reach personal conclusions after long periods of reflection and thorough thinking. I did not (and still do not) want to be influenced by the "chatter".

To address the issue, I have to tie it down to the bottomline argument -IS BANNING OR REJECTION OF SAME SEX MARRIAGE DISCRIMINATORY?

I wish to state now that my opinion on this is not an attempt to tip the scale in either direction, but rather an attempt to embrace the truth, no matter whose ox may be gored at the end.

So, here we go!

In my humble opinion, the term "marriage" is universal in human culture, but the knots and bolts of it, "the devil-in-the-detail", is NOT universal in application. Let me rephrase it. Marriage does not necessarily mean the same thing to different cultures. I am not a trained sociologists, or historian, so I would confine myself to comparing between the Igbo (Nnewi) culture and those of the dominant colonial culture that gained the upper hand in Igboland. All I am doing here is to place the facts concerning the two cultures (Igbo and western) on the table, and then let the facts speak for themselves.

Like I stated already, the term "marriage" means different things to different nations and cultures on this earth. It is like "farming" for instance. Farming is usually shaped by environment, culture, history, religion. . .basically everything that is unique to any nation or cultural group. Even in Igboland, the farming techniques of Ezza people for example, is different from that of Nnewi people; nevertheless, both work for both peoples! Ndigbo say that "nku di na mba na eghelu mba nri" -the local firewoods make the best woods!

The art, or culture, of marriage is unique to different nations, just like farming. Each nation can decide to adopt a foreign farming technique (for whatever reason), and drop local one (for whatever reason too), and may live happily ever after with the adopted culture. What I frown at is for people to start making statements attacking and disparaging the same culture that they have willingly adopted, which (apparently) served them well through the years. If it didn't serve them well, well, they should drop it and adopt another; simple and short.

Marriage in original Igboland was a process whereby a man saw a woman, made the judgement that she was "fertile" (to bear children) and "strong" (to produce strong children who would work in the farm), and then went to ask for her hand in marriage. He didn't even go to ask the woman, he asked her father (though she would eventually decide whether to accept or stay in the marriage)! later. If she accepted the offer, judging by the man's appearance of "strength" (to protect her and and her children), and richness (to ensure that she and her children did not starve), she followed him home to HIS house after he has PAID her brideprice, to become his wife. From the moment the man paid the bride price, the woman became his, and EVERY of her children born inside that marriage automatically became his, whether he impregnated her or not (Nnewi culture).
The marriage was not based on "love" (a sexual affiliation between two people, which is often demonstrated through canal or conjugatory consummation). Marriage in Igbo culture was not based on that love. FACT. It was mainly an economic decision in the true sense of the word. Yes, it came with what I call "perks" (read se.x ) but it was never THE deciding factor in the process of chosing a spouse, both for the man and the woman. It was a movement upward in the socio-cultural-economic ladder. It was NEVER a partnership of equals, because the one (the man) PAID, for the other (the woman) for her fertility. If she came into the marriage, and failed to reproduce, the man usually married another wife. Simple. Notice that it was always the woman's "fault", because she really didn't always have to become pregnant by her husband (secret fact). She only needed to get pregnant, and the man gets a child. Simple. That is why she was blamed when she failed to produce a child. Modern Igbo have lost the history behind this practice, and it has led to all kinds of problems. The Igbo of Nnewi leapfrogged paternity test! It was (and still is) a wasted and really unnecessary exercise. That is why fatherlessness was completely alien to Igbo culture. Everybody had a PRESENT father. FACT.
So, you "marry" to reproduce in Igboland. Polygamy came about (in Igboland) partly as a stop-gap measure to solve the problem of infertility (in the woman). The Nnewi Igbo felt that the equation of reproduction could be effectively solved by solving ONE SIDE of the equation -the woman side. The man PAID to solve this equation on the woman side.

Now, in the western culture of marriage, it is an exercise that unites TWO equal human beings, who "love" each other. It is based entirely (or at least primarily) on LOVE -the physical attraction between two people. I could be wrong, but I have never come across any historical proof showing that the "love" needed to ALWAYS be between a man and a woman -NONE. This fact is silent of course, but very much there. That is why such marriages ALWAYS crumbles whenever one side stops LOVING the other. That is also why is it impossible to marry more than one person, because truly, one cannot love two or more people equally. The marriage -though it also assumes reproduction as in the Igbo one above- does not base on the reproduction. That is why there are MANY in western style marriages who are childless, and are very happy in it. FEW (if any) Igbo are happy in a childless marriage. FACT.

To reharsh; in Igboland, a marriage fails if the woman fails to produce a child. In western culture, a marriage fails if one side stops loving the other. Apples and oranges.

In Nigeria, what we have now is a conundrum of sorts, of mixed and mashed cultures, and has almost totally obsfucated the facts of each culture that we adopted. This confusion is self imposed though, and cannot be an excuse to abuse or maltreat people in Nigeria.

So, in my humble opinion, to deny two consenting adults the right to unite in western style marriage, is discriminatory.

I now understand why my church -the Anglican church of England- is effectively in support of same sex "marriage". It is an affirmation of existing cultural facts in England.
If there is a "Church of Igboland", such issue would never even arise, also, drawing from Igbo cultural facts.

Firstly, we have to actually define what love means. Is it exactly as it relates to foreign culture or relative to different cultures. What exactly does it mean?

As for same sexx marriages, i abhor the thought in it's entirety but will not go up in arms to deny people the right to do whatever they want, I think it's discriminatory to do so. If we can condone polygamy, sexx before marriage, pregnancy before marriage then why is same sexx marriage any different. We can say it's alien. What in this world was not alien at one point or the other? It was once alien for a black person to be seen close to whites or even attempting to enjoy the perks that whites enjoyed. But today, blacks are seen as equals, at least to some reasonable extent. Just imagine if the whites all went up in arms then saying that they can't allow blacks to be given those privileges because they're it's alien to do so.

But @Onlytruth, i really want to support the Anglican church's position on this. Are they saying that same sexx marriage is a sin or are they just fighting for the equality of humans without necessarily encouraging people to be homosexuals?

You made a wrong statement when you said that marriage(ALL) in Igboland is not based on love. Thats an absolute statement which is wrong.

Silence is golden!

Bia, . . . This is not politics "OT" aka OnlyTruth aka OKORO TESTAMENT aka OKONGWU TESTAMENT!!!
Family section is more appropriate. . .dunyoo tink?

[b][size=20pt]Marriage in Igboland is a process whereby a man sees a woman, makes the judgement that she is "fertile" (to bear children) and "strong" (to produce strong children who would work in the farm),[/size] and then goes to ask for her hand in marriage. He doesn't even go to ask the woman, he asks her father (though she would eventually decide whether to accept or stay in the marriage)! later. [size=20pt]If she accepts the offer, judging by the man's appearance of "strength" (to protect her and and her children),[/size] and richness (to ensure that she and her children did not starve), she followed him home to HIS house after he has PAID her brideprice, to become his wife. From the moment the man paid the bride price, the woman became his, and EVERY of her children born inside that marriage automatically became his, [size=20pt]whether he impregnated her or not[/size] (Nnewi culture) .


The marriage was not based on "love" (a intimate affiliation between two people, which is often demonstrated through canal or conjugatory consummation). [size=20pt]Marriage in Igbo culture is not based on that love. FACT.[/size] It is mainly an economic decision in the true sense of the word. Yes, it comes with what I call "perks" (read se.x ) but it was never THE deciding factor in the process of chosing a spouse, both for the man and the woman. It was a movement upward in the socio-cultural-economic ladder.

[size=20pt]It was NEVER a partnership of equals, because the one (the man) PAID, for the other (the woman) for her fertility. If she came into the marriage, and failed to reproduce,[/size] the man usually married another wife. Simple. Notice that it was always the woman's "fault", because she really didn't always have to become pregnant by her husband (secret fact). She only needed to get pregnant, and the man gets a child. Simple. That is why she was blamed when she failed to produce a child.

[size=20pt]Modern Igbo have lost the history behind this practice, and it has led to all kinds of problems. The Igbo of Nnewi leapfrogged paternity test! It was (and still is) a wasted and really unnecessary exercise. That is why fatherlessness was completely alien to Igbo culture. Everybody had a PRESENT father. FACT.[/size][/b]

WHAT AN INSULT!
No wonder Igbo men kill their wives at the sight of an empty pot of soup!
If you were not taught to love yourselves how can you 'look by appearance' to judge who is fertile or strong enough to 'protect a woman and her chidren. . . ILLEGITIMATE OR NOT?

This part belongs in "UNA" 'IGBO KWENU' section. . . neither politics nor family!

OR FEEL FREE TO USE DEAR DAIRIES. . .FOR 'YOUR VIEWS'!
Happy holidays!

Hmmm! See wetin 'educated' pOOrson dey write for public?
Any exposed pOOrson knows in this day and age that MEN ARE ALSO INFERTILE!
To put the entire blame on women can only come from IGBOLAND!
No wonder women phock around to get SHARIA-CATHOLIC HOLY-NWENJE babies from MAIGIDAS AND DRIVERS TO SAVE THEMSELVES FROM THE SHAME OF BARRENESS!
Not even stopping to think the man may have some EMPTY KOLANUTS FULL OF COBWEBS INSTEAD OF SPE-RM CELLS!!!!

What a laugh!
When you win your "VD" lottery, the DNA test would prove you are runniing an OGBONGE fatherless plus motherless baby home!

MU HE HE HE HE HE HE HE

LWKMD!!!!

This Igboland na waya!!!!
WHAT DA PHOCKING PHACK!

Please, stop spreading ignorance and 'BUSHMEATISMS' aka 'MGBEKEISMS'!

Kei! This na POST OF THE CENTURY!!!!

I am nor surprised at all. . . !!!

Onlytruth: Since the debate surrounding this issue started, I have refrained from even reading opinions posted on this site in threads addressing the topic. I deliberately avoided reading them because I don't want to be influenced by them in any way. I wanted to reach personal conclusions after long periods of reflection and thorough thinking. I did not (and still do not) want to be influenced by the "chatter".

To address the issue, I have to tie it down to the bottomline argument -IS BANNING OR REJECTION OF SAME SEX MARRIAGE DISCRIMINATORY?

I wish to state now that my opinion on this is not an attempt to tip the scale in either direction, but rather an attempt to embrace the truth, no matter whose ox may be gored at the end.

So, here we go!. . . .BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. . . . !

Thread derailed beyond this point!

Copy saved! GRADING THIS PAPER. . . I AWARD A LETTER F FOR FAILURE TO STICK TO THE SUBJECT MATTER!
See the inner workings of a confused mind. . . from same-sex marriage. . . THREAD DERAILED TO THE MEANING OF MARRIAGE IN IGBOLAND!

Hmmmmmmmmm!
Anya'm a fu go. . .
Ntim a nu go. . . .

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!!!!!



TUFIAKWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

No offense please, but i find your meaning of marriage in Igbo culture strange.

Blazay:

Copy saved! GRADING THIS PAPER. . . I AWARD A LETTER F FOR FAILURE TO STICK TO THE SUBJECT MATTER!
See the inner workings of a confused mind. . . from same-sex marriage. . . THREAD DERAILED TO THE MEANING OF MARRIAGE IN IGBOLAND!

Hmmmmmmmmm!
Anya'm a fu go. . .
Ntim a nu go. . . .

HEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEY!!!!!



TUFIAKWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!

Please read again and do it carefully this time around. The original topic has not be deviate from a single degree. I think he has proven that marriage can be right or wrong depending on the culture the society adopts.

afam4eva: .

The post don make generator don blow for this one house!

FAST-LINK:
Silence is golden!

Mu he he he he he. . . .One of my favorite songs of the 70s!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyj2qL-bQ4E

401kk: Will reply later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1ypn0y32Ac

Mu hah han han han han han. . . NO BRING 'GUN' COME BACK HIA O!
Someone needs to go get some composure. . .

Finally. . .someone has the courage to reply after the initial SHOCKER!
I believe the first 3 posters are still somewhat traumatized by this highly nauseating 'perspective' of marriage in Igboland!
I have gone from shock to anger. . . now I am laughing to tears!

Standing5: Please read again and do it carefully this time around. The original topic has not be deviate from a single degree. I think he has proven that marriage can be right or wrong depending on the culture the society adopts.

Marriage in Igboland has absolutely nothing to dow with 'perspectives of same-sex marriages' since we have HOMOSEXUALS ALL OVER IGBOLAND. . .MARRIED OR NOT!
Thank you.
Perspectives should stick to the said subject matter!
Thank you!
NOW, YOU READ THE TOPIC OF THIS THREAD AGAIN. . .very CAREFULLY!

[size=20pt]Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / New Post (My Perspective On Same Sex "Marriage".)[/size]

Not. . . . . ,

[size=20pt]Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Politics / New Post (My Perspective On NNEWI-IGBO "Marriage".)[/size]

Some of us may goof around NL and other Nigerian messageboards after doing our REAL JOBS and taking care of our FAMILY BUSINESSES. . . BUT WE ARE FAR FROM DAFT!


Thank you!

NL IGBO women carefully avoiding this thread!
For good reason!
Mgbo. . . no love for IGBOLAND. . .only 'breeding' like fowls for a man's pleasure?
Not even 'CAVE DWELLERS' would confess such without trying to remedy this 'genetic defect'!
No wonder domestic violence rules IGBO MARRIAGES especially!

Still on 'Igbo Marriages'. . .since the thread is about 'IGBO MARRIAGES' not 'A Perspective' of same-sex marriage!

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16623192

[b]Women's perception of partner violence in a rural Igbo community.

Ilika AL.


Source

Community Medicine Department, Nnamdi Azikiwe University Teaching Hospital, PMB 5025, Nnewi, Nigeria. linusilika@yahoo.com


Abstract

Partner violence is a serious public health problem affecting mostly women. This qualitative study assessed the perceptions of rural Igbo women of Nigeria of intimate partner violence. Information was elicited using in-depth interviews and focus group discussion. Women of childbearing age were selected from the various women age grades in Ozubulu, Anambra State, Nigeria.

[size=20pt]Findings revealed that the women generally condone and are complacent with intimate partner violence, perceiving it as cultural and religious norms.[/size]



[size=20pt]The women felt that reprimands, beating and forced sex affecting their physical, mental and reproductive wellbeing are normal in marriage. [/size] They did not support reporting such cases to the police or divorcing the man, they would rather prefer reporting to family members.

They felt that exiting the marriage would not gain the support of family members. They also expressed fear for the uncertainty in re-marrying, means of livelihood after re-marriage, social stigmatisation, and concern for their children.[/size][/color]Socio-cultural norms and structures favour partner violence in Anambra State of Nigeria. There is a need for advocacy and concerted action that will involve the educational, health, civil and religious sectors of the society to evolve sustainable structures that will empower women and provide support to enable victims to react appropriately to violence.
[/b]

Desperado lives of 'MGBEKES AND MGBAFORS' PSYCHOS!!!
Talking about infertility. . .while breeding GENERATIONAL loveless animals to repeat the vicious cycles? TWA!
BARRENESS IS BETTER THAN BREEEEEEEEEEEDING ANIMALS! OR ABORTION KPA-KPA!

IF LOVE IS NOT THE BASIS OF MARRIAGE. . . WHAT ARE YOU TEACHING THE YOUR KIDS?
How to beat their wives and raise 'emotional' dish-rags as USSSSSSSSSSSLESS WOMEN?
Tufiakwa!

No wonder 'MGBEKES' worship blokoses instead of developing brains to be respected enough to breed decent human beings as children! Only to come online to start tiarrring pant and 'brazzy' for some USSSSSSSSELESS MOFOS! Mtcheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeew!!!

Blazay: NL IGBO women carefully avoiding this thread!
For good reason!
Mgbo. . . no love for IGBOLAND. . .only 'breeding' like fowls for a man's pleasure!
Not even 'CAVE DWELLERS' would confess such without trying to remedy this 'genetic defect'!
No wonder domestic violence rules IGBO MARRIAGES especially!

From whose pespective are drawing your conclusion? I think you are up to no good else, the article did not in any way used Igbo as the case study, it only use Nnewi as his reference point and to be honest, it's just his personal opinion and does not hold for all.

If your intentions are sincere, you'd contribute with an open mind without bringing insults to your personality on here else, you are not worthy of my internet time.

FAST-LINK:


From whose pespective are drawing your conclusion? I think you are up to no good else, the article did not in any way used Igbo as the case study, it only use Nnewi as his reference point and to be honest, it's just his personal opinion and does not hold for all.

If your intentions are sincere, you'd contribute with an open mind without bringing insults to your personality on here else, you are not worthy of my internet time.

What article?
Igbo culture was used specifically and generally. . . .And I quote again!

[b][size=20pt]Marriage in Igboland[/size] is a process whereby a man sees a woman, makes the judgement that she is "fertile" (to bear children) and "strong" (to produce strong children who would work in the farm), and then goes to ask for her hand in marriage. He doesn't even go to ask the woman, he asks her father (though she would eventually decide whether to accept or stay in the marriage)! later. If she accepts the offer, judging by the man's appearance of "strength" (to protect her and and her children), and richness (to ensure that she and her children did not starve), she followed him home to HIS house after he has PAID her brideprice, to become his wife. From the moment the man paid the bride price, the woman became his, and EVERY of her children born inside that marriage automatically became his, whether he impregnated her or not (Nnewi culture).

The marriage was not based on "love" (a intimate affiliation between two people, which is often demonstrated through canal or conjugatory consummation). [size=20pt]Marriage in Igbo culture is not based on that love.[/size] FACT. It is mainly an economic decision in the true sense of the word. Yes, it comes with what I call "perks" (read se.x ) but it was never THE deciding factor in the process of chosing a spouse, both for the man and the woman. It was a movement upward in the socio-cultural-economic ladder. It was NEVER a partnership of equals, because the one (the man) PAID, for the other (the woman) for her fertility. If she came into the marriage, and failed to reproduce, the man usually married another wife. Simple. Notice that it was always the woman's "fault", because she really didn't always have to become pregnant by her husband (secret fact). She only needed to get pregnant, and the man gets a child. Simple. That is why she was blamed when she failed to produce a child. Modern Igbo have lost the history behind this practice, and it has led to all kinds of problems. The Igbo of Nnewi leapfrogged paternity test! It was (and still is) a wasted and really unnecessary exercise. That is why fatherlessness was completely alien to Igbo culture. Everybody had a PRESENT father. FACT.[/b]

What do you mean up to no good?
Did I start the thread?

I AM INCENSED BY IT!

^^ Pls don't derail this beautiful thread. Can't you be serious for once in your life. There's time for everything. You may hate Igbos so much but this is not the place to show your hate. Let's focus on the thread and stop throwing unnecessary tribal tantrums.

afam4eva: ^^ Pls don't derail this beautiful thread. Can't you be serious for once in your life. There's time for everything. You may hate Igbos so much but this is not the place to show your hate. Let's focus on the thread and stop throwing unnecessary tribal tantrums.

What a Beautiful thread INDEED!
Please enjoy! I have made my points!
Thank our ancestors MY HATRED FOR IGBOS has been justified by one of YOURS ON NL. . . .YET AGAIN!
Not that I had insufficient reasons or was ever in doubt as to reasons why. . .
Thanks for validating my 'perspectives'!
It is Christmas darling. . .I have better things to occupy my time with, than go back and forth with EVER-MISERABLE, NL IRREEMABLE BIGOTS LIKEY YA!

Thread EVER-SO-HAPPILY unfollowed!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O-QqC9yM28
Gooooooooooooood Riddddddddddddance!!!!

Marriage in Igboland is a process whereby a man sees a woman, makes the judgement that she is "fertile" (to bear children) and "strong" (to produce strong children who would work in the farm), and then goes to ask for her hand in marriage. He doesn't even go to ask the woman, he asks her father (though she would eventually decide whether to accept or stay in the marriage)! later. If she accepts the offer, judging by the man's appearance of "strength" (to protect her and and her children), and richness (to ensure that she and her children did not starve), she followed him home to HIS house after he has PAID her brideprice, to become his wife. From the moment the man paid the bride price, the woman became his, and EVERY of her children born inside that marriage automatically became his, whether he impregnated her or not (Nnewi culture).
The marriage was not based on "love" (a intimate affiliation between two people, which is often demonstrated through canal or conjugatory consummation). Marriage in Igbo culture is not based on that love. FACT. It is mainly an economic decision in the true sense of the word. Yes, it comes with what I call "perks" (read se.x ) but it was never THE deciding factor in the process of chosing a spouse, both for the man and the woman. It was a movement upward in the socio-cultural-economic ladder. It was NEVER a partnership of equals, because the one (the man) PAID, for the other (the woman) for her fertility. If she came into the marriage, and failed to reproduce, the man usually married another wife. Simple. Notice that it was always the woman's "fault", because she really didn't always have to become pregnant by her husband (secret fact). She only needed to get pregnant, and the man gets a child. Simple. That is why she was blamed when she failed to produce a child. Modern Igbo have lost the history behind this practice, and it has led to all kinds of problems. The Igbo of Nnewi leapfrogged paternity test! It was (and still is) a wasted and really unnecessary exercise. That is why fatherlessness was completely alien to Igbo culture. Everybody had a PRESENT father. FACT.
So, you "marry" to reproduce in Igboland. Polygamy came about (in Igboland) partly as a stop-gap measure to solve the problem of infertility (in the woman). The Nnewi Igbo felt that the equation of reproduction could be effectively solved by solving ONE SIDE of the equation -the woman side. The man PAID to solve this equation on the woman side.

Thank goodness all this rubbish is dying away.
Funny and oppressive traditions ranging from buying a human being to refusing to accept the fact that men can also be infertile.
I wonder how these things came about in the first place. I wonder why people just decided that the woman should be placed below the man in marriage and she should be paid for and bought like an ordinary commodity.

I now understand why my church -the Anglican church of England- is effectively in support of same sex "marriage". It is an affirmation of existing cultural facts in England.
If there is a "Church of Igboland", such issue would never even arise, also, drawing from Igbo cultural facts.

I think the real reason you decided to conclude that same sex marriage should be allowed is because your church allows it.

You probably had some difficulty coming to terms with the fact that your church supports such a thing and that was why you sat down to rack your brains and find some sort of justification for it instead of acknowledging that your church shouldn't support homosexuality.

I personally do not support discrimination of homosexuals or denying them their rights, I think doing such a thing is just inhumane as homosexuals can be born the way they are and should not be discriminated for having preferences/traits they cannot control.
I think they should be accepted and treated the way everyone else is treated.
What I don't support is the idea that homosexuality is perfectly normal or that homosexual tendencies are perfectly normal.
Abeg it is not normal. End of story.
Living things evolved to have traits that ensure their survival and continued existence, not traits that would lead to their extinction or would lead to their sustaining permanent rectal damage. I understand that nature is not perfect and evolution is not perfect and that there would certainly be flaws and anomalies/glitches in the evolution of species (and homosexuality is one of those glitches, it serves absolutely no purpose whatsoever).

Legalizing same sex marriage would in a way, serve to encourage the adoption of anomalies as an accepted way of life.
Sympathy and understanding can be extended to homosexual people though, no discriminating or treating them badly.
That doesn't mean we should start pretending that homosexuality is perfectly normal and nothing is wrong with it.

afam4eva: Firstly, we have to actually define what love means. Is it exactly as it relates to foreign culture or relative to different cultures. What exactly does it mean?

As for same sexx marriages, i abhor the thought in it's entirety but will not go up in arms to deny people the right to do whatever they want, I think it's discriminatory to do so. If we can condone polygamy, sexx before marriage, pregnancy before marriage then why is same sexx marriage any different. We can say it's alien. What in this world was not alien at one point or the other? It was once alien for a black person to be seen close to whites or even attempting to enjoy the perks that whites enjoyed. But today, blacks are seen as equals, at least to some reasonable extent. Just imagine if the whites all went up in arms then saying that they can't allow blacks to be given those privileges because they're it's alien to do so.

But @Onlytruth, i really want to support the Anglican church's position on this. Are they saying that same sexx marriage is a sin or are they just fighting for the equality of humans without necessarily encouraging people to be homosexuals?

The simplest definition of love in this context is PHYSICAL ATTRACTION between two people. In other words, canal attraction. You and I may not understand it or think it is possible, but we know that people involved in "love" do things like kissing for example.

I agree that no culture is without importation. That is why I say that what we have in Igboland today is not the original Igbo marriage. If we were still practicing that original Igbo marriage (please note that I do not advocate either, I am saying that people should accept whatever cultural practice they adopted; warts and all), the issue of same sex marriage would NEVER even arise because the very nature of that marriage makes it impossible for the issue to arise.
In the new culture we adopted, the issue is there, and it is discriminatory to not accord same sex couples similar regard and protection.

@felis

You make some valid points. Please note that I do not say this because my "church" supports it. NOPE.
BTW I do not believe in the current church we have on earth today. I believe in the original church; the one Jesus Christ himself prophesied and established himself: THE ONE NOT BUILT BY HANDS -the true followers of Jesus Christ who have accepted him as their saviour.
God does not dwell in any temple built by man. He dwells inside us, his children. I don't want to go spiritual on this topic. I am just looking at it based on facts facing me.

Onlytruth: @felis

You make some valid points. Please note that I do not say this because my "church" supports it. NOPE.
BTW I do not believe in the current church we have on earth today. I believe in the original church; the one Jesus Christ himself prophesied and established himself: THE ONE NOT BUILT BY HANDS -the true followers of Jesus Christ who have accepted him as their saviour.
God does not dwell in any temple built by man. He dwells inside us, his children. I don't want to go spiritual on this topic. I am just looking at it based on facts facing me.

I understand.

One more point I need to make to differentiate between the original Igbo marriage and current western style one, is that in the dissolution of marriage in ancestral Nnewi, either party can simply walk away without raising any dust. The woman can simply leave her marital home and follow any man who would accept her as wife. She performs a simple ritual in the public: she kneels down before her new husband and offers him a little table knife called mma ekwu (used to peel yams and cocoyams). Once he accepts it from her, he then proceeds to go and pay her bride price. From that day, she becomes his wife. HOWEVER, ALL the children she had for her previous husband MUST STAY with her previous husband. She cannot go into the new marriage with the children of the first marriage. Men hardly sent their wives packing except she committed an act capable of leading to death of a family member. This act of sending her away is even performed by the women of the clan -the umu ada- not by the man. It actually goes deeper, but suffice to say that dissolution of marriages did not involve lengthy litigation and sharing of properties.

In western style marriages, the institution itself is similar to a business partnership between two equals. Of course there are intricacies like the fact that women own children in western style marriages; but then, it is usually the father of the woman that pays for weddings! When we copied, we did so while leaving the burden of weddings on the man, and of course the children are his too! lol, but I digress! I don't want to derail the topic.

Summary: In original Igbo culture, marriages are ONLY for having children. I await any person who would prove me wrong on this.
In western culture (which we have adopted in marriages these days), IT IS NOT! If it is not, then, why shouldn't same sex couples marry?

Onlytruth: One more point I need to make to differentiate between the original Igbo marriage and current western style one, is that in the dissolution of marriage in ancestral Nnewi, either party can simply walk away without raising any dust. The woman can simply leave her marital home and follow any man who would accept her as wife. She performs a simple ritual in the public: she kneels down before her new husband and offers him a little table knife called mma ekwu (used to peel yams and cocoyams). Once he accepts it from her, he then proceeds to go and pay her bride price. From that day, she becomes his wife.

Is there usually any stigma attached to women who do things like this? Are they regarded as maybe wayward wives or bad mothers who did not have their children's interest at heart? I would imagine that the woman would not be spoken well of due to the fact that it was likely she had been keeping her new husband as a secret lover while she was still married to her husband.

HOWEVER, ALL the children she had for her previous husband MUST STAY with her previous husband.

Thank God this one is also dying off.
Also, I wanted to ask; what is the origin of creation according to Igbo beliefs? How was the earth brought about and how did the gods come to be? Sorry for derailing, you just appear to be very knowledgeable about Igbo culture that is why I am asking you.

In western culture (which we have adopted in marriages these days), IT IS NOT! If it is not, then, why shouldn't same sex couples marry?

Because homosexuality is abnormal and we don't want to encourage abnormal behaviour. We only want to correct or at least tolerate it.

i will be back later

OP, this is IGNORANCE in the highest order. I don't think you're Igbo, an Igbo man will not write this GARBAGE about the Igbo culture. If you happen to be Igbo, write about MARRIAGE based on your personal family EXPERIENCES, and not for Igbo people. Do you know the meaning of "IHUNANYA" in Igbo?? If you do, your IGNORANT brain will restrict you from saying that Igbo's don't marry out of love.

In addition, you & that EVIL HOMOSEXUALITY has no place in HUMAN HISTORY. It's an ABOMINATION to every CULTURE and RELIGION, from the WEST, to ASIA, up to the MIDDLE-EAST and down to AFRICA, HOMOSEXUALITY is an EVIL & will NEVER survive. Even the animals that make LOVE in public ( chicken &dogs,etc)the sleep their OPPOSITE SEX.

fellis:

Is there usually any stigma attached to women who do things like this? Are they regarded as maybe wayward wives or bad mothers who did not have their children's interest at heart? I would imagine that the woman would not be spoken well of due to the fact that it was likely she had been keeping her new husband as a secret lover while she was still married to her husband.


Thank God this one is also dying off.
Also, I wanted to ask; what is the origin of creation according to Igbo beliefs? How was the earth brought about and how did the gods come to be? Sorry for derailing, you just appear to be very knowledgeable about Igbo culture that is why I am asking you.


Because homosexuality is abnormal and we don't want to encourage abnormal behaviour. We only want to correct or at least tolerate it.

@First bolded: I understand that as a woman you would want the institution of marriage to favor you, hehe , but please try to detach your personal interest from it. Believe it or not, I have not inserted mine, and I will not do that. All I'm doing here is laying down the facts and allowing the facts to speak for themselves.
I do not agree that the culture whereby the man owns the children, is dead in Igboland, NOT BY A LONG SHOT. In Igboland, the children belong to the man, provided he paid the bride price ab initio. BTW we still pay the bride price today, even if as a mere token; nevertheless, it is performed. Such are some of the most recognized and enforceable law under customary law, which is the FIRST LEVEL of jurisprudence in Nigeria. If you skip the customary courts (in issues of marriages performed under customary laws -performed under "Igba nkwu and ime ego" practices) the higher courts will send you back to the customary courts for adjudication. However, please let's not turn this thread into a debate about which marriage culture is better.

@Second bolded: This debate is about whether same sex marriage prohibition is discriminatory under the ambient (read western style) marriage culture.
The answer, IMHO is yes it is discriminatory to deny same sex couples the rights enjoyed by their peers in heterosexual marriages in that culture. I have made my points above. Make yours.

TRUTHTELA: OP, this is IGNORANCE in the highest order. I don't think you're Igbo, an Igbo man will not write this GARBAGE about the Igbo culture. If you happen to be Igbo, write about MARRIAGE based on your personal family EXPERIENCES, and not for Igbo people. Do you know the meaning of "IHUNANYA" in Igbo?? If you do, your IGNORANT brain will restrict you from saying that Igbo's don't marry out of love.

In addition, you & that EVIL HOMOSEXUALITY has no place in HUMAN HISTORY. It's an ABOMINATION to every CULTURE and RELIGION, from the WEST, to ASIA, up to the MIDDLE-EAST and down to AFRICA, HOMOSEXUALITY is an EVIL & will NEVER survive. Even the animals that make LOVE in public ( chicken &dogs,etc)the sleep their OPPOSITE SEX.

My friend how old are you?
Did you even read the opening argument? I don't have time for kids please.

I had to add some words to the original post to ensure that no one misunderstands me, except of course those who cannot (for whatever reason) understand me.
I'll be back later.

Mu he he

I agree totally with Eze onlytruth, i have always argued time and time again that it is hypocrisy for igbos who are now mostly christians,who burnt down the shrines of our ancestors,labelled the ancient ways evil and continue to do so using nollywood,to say that they don't accept homosexuality because it's an alien culture that belongs to whites.It just doesn't make sense.

Your write up on igbo traditional marriage and what it stands for, is quite revealing,i have never taken time to reflect upon our traditional marriage system and how it was influenced by the white culture,but your write up just got me thinking.

Onlytruth:
@First bolded: I understand that as a woman you would want the institution of marriage to favor you, hehe , but please try to detach your personal interest from it. Believe it or not, I have not inserted mine, and I will not do that. All I'm doing here is laying down the facts and allowing the facts to speak for themselves.
I do not agree that the culture whereby the man owns the children, is dead in Igboland, NOT BY A LONG SHOT. In Igboland, the children belong to the man, provided he paid the bride price ab initio. BTW we still pay the bride price today, even if as a mere token;

@first bolded, I don't want the laws of marriage to favour only the wife. I want the laws to favour both the husband and the wife. On the issue of child custody, both parents should have custody of the children. They both made sacrifices to train their children and they both conceived those children. Treating the woman as nothing but a baby making machine who cannot lay claims to anything in the house when she decides to leave, (not even her children) is part of the reason why so many sexist and discriminatory attitudes pervade our society today. These types of cultures is what leads men to believe that all women are beneath them and that women are commodities that can be bought and sold.
@second bolded, I didn't say the culture of the man owning the children is dead in Igbo land. I said the culture of the man having sole custody of the children after a divorce is dying off and I said this because more Nigerians/Igbos are embracing foreign cultures regarding marriage.
I also think that payment of bride price should be abolished; it is a very useless and destructive culture.

@Second bolded: This debate is about whether same sex marriage prohibition is discriminatory under the ambient (read western style) marriage culture.
The answer, IMHO is yes it is discriminatory to deny same sex couples the rights enjoyed by their peers in heterosexual marriages in that culture. I have made my points above. Make yours.

I have mentioned the reasons why prohibiting same sex marriage is not discriminatory in this thread. How did you miss it?
Homosexual behaviour is not a normal thing and legalizing same sex marriage would in a way, be encouraging this abnormal behaviour. If you see something that is abnormal that you cannot change, you try to tolerate it, you don't encourage it. Legalizing same sex marriage is approving and encouraging the abnormality that is homosexuality.
And I don't care what anyone says to the contrary; homosexuality is abnormal. The large intestine and anus evolved to work in the alimentary canal, they did not evolve as sëxual organs.

Onlytruth, I urge you read Elechi Amadi's "The Concubine". It will enrich your perspectives and views concerning marriage and relationships in Igboland.

Onlytruth:

If we were still practicing that original Igbo marriage , the issue of same sex marriage would NEVER even arise because the very nature of that marriage makes it impossible for the issue to arise.
In the new culture we adopted, the issue is there, and it is discriminatory to not accord same sex couples similar regard and protection.

I think you're totally missing some important points.
Homosexuality (the idea or practice of a person being involved in a sexual or romantic relationship with a person of the same sex) is an ABOMINATION in Igbo land. Yes, Igbo culture has evolved over the years to fit in with adopted culture but that does not necessarily mean we've lost all inherited traditions, moral codes etc.