It seems there are only 2 reasons being given for retention of Christmas by Christians:

1) That the celebration, though copied from pagans, is now for good and is dedicated to Christ, thus should be acceptable.

This is presumptuous and unacceptable to God - this evident from God's reaction to the Jews doing "feast to the LORD" in a way not commanded by God.

2) That angels rejoiced when Jesus was born, hence the need to celebrate Jesus's birthday.

True angels rejoiced at the instance of Jesus birth - it was the birth of who will become a perfect man that will free humans from sin. The angels praised God for his love- something they and humans do daily. Neither angels nor the early Christians made it a habit to commemorate the birth of Christ annually, else the date would have been recorded. Angels did same thing when God created the earth - Job 38:7.

It's no reason to adopt the pagan celebration of birthdays and attach it to Christ. Here's an interesting quote from the Catholic Encyclopedia:

"Origen, glancing perhaps at the discreditable imperial Natalitia, asserts (in Lev. Hom. viii in Migne, P.G., XII, 495) that in the Scriptures sinners alone, not saints, celebrate their birthday (Martindale C. Christmas, 1908)".

Jesus himself affirmed that loving him means obeying his commands - not instituting a celebration in his honor.

These 2 reasons don't cut it apparently. Anyone want to give any other good reasons why Christians should celebrate Christmas?

Zikkyy:

So your is not that I use the Xmas tree but how I use it abi? So if I hang Xmas tree in June, it is paganism abi? smh..

Secondly, you have not told me how I worship with the Xmas tree. You are only saying I hang Xmas tree in my house during Xmas.

Thirdly, the pagans you claimed I copied Xmas from (saturnalia worshippers), did they use Xmas tree in their saturnalia worship?

Four, do you know how an Xmas tree would look like in dry season?

I am only telling you that the reason why you have that xmas tree hanging in your house is because of the pagans you copied my bro.....haven't you still understood this simple truth.....would have you have had any dealing with decorated trees in your house if not for xmas and the pagans it was borrowed from??...................say the truth and let's move on.............
My post is about the xmas tree,your use of it and everything associated with it..........it has nothing to do with Jesus.........you guys claim the reason for the season is Jesus,but na lie....the reason for the season is for paganism to surface and rule..........

Go back to your history and see persons who made it there custom and invented the use of decorated trees in festivity.........you have the encyclopedia..do some research......
......

The xmas trees you even have now are syntethic(so they'll be green in dry season) and used solely for the purpose of xmas........

You should have asked yourself what is the significance of the xmas tree..........ask yourself that question and do some research.........the xmas tree is not just a flower decoration,it symbolizes something.....do research bro.....

Zikkyy:

You talking but not saying anything. I ask you again, was the kids the issue or was it what they used the kids for? God will not be angry if I have an Xmas tree at home. He made and I can put it anywhere I like in my house just like any other plant. Don't you know our native/witch doctors use almost all the herbs/plants available for their medicine including the one you use to cook that spicy vegetable soup you love. Can you then say, its pagan and we should do away with the vegetables?

Kids are from God...but the baal worshippers passed them through the fire in worship of baal......servants of God adopted and did same and faced Jahs wrath.......same goes for your lovely pagan xmas tree..............


....you are running away from the fact bro...its already out............God is definitly angry when you have an xmas tree that was excerpted from pagan ways.....don't you get it??..............the only reason why you have a tree in your house alongside a Father xmas moulding or painting by december is because of xmas and you have learnt so far how it came about......can't you for once on this thread see the truth??.............
.......___________________________

Do not photocopy the ways of the heathens...has those words from Jah ever made any sense to you??.....
...........

......................

Rich4god: Go and make your research... Any time you say amen at the end of your prayer, you are actually calling on the name of an Egyptian god. I guess you are now worshipping amen the Egyptian god any time you are praying, and no longer God Almighty. Stop being selective in your jugdement.

This my broda need to upgrade oooo, So you think the word "amen" is unscriptural? S...M...H!

The word "Amen" appeared for the very first time in the Bible under the most solemn circumstances.
When a husband accused his wife of adultery, and she protested her innocence, and she
had not been caught in the act, the matter was settled by God under the test of bitter water (Num 5:12-31). Please read it.
The woman was taken to the priest, and the priest put her under oath.
She submited to a ceremony in which she drank som water containing dust from the tabernacle flooor.
If she had committed adultery, she was be cursed with a wasting disease, but if she did not get sick, then she was proven innocent and her husband was proven wrong
In verse 22, during the ceremony, when the priest pronounced the curse, the woman was required by God to say, "Amen, Amen".


22 May this water that brings the curse pass into your bowels and make your womb swell and your thigh fall away.
And the woman shall say, Amen, Amen.
Ithink this is the first occurrence of the AMEN in scripture. God commands it to be said by a person who is yielding herself to examination by him in his presence.

The Egyptian god was created by God, His name has no power over the word of God. His name is not even "AMEN" as you claim but "AMEN-RA". You need to upgrade bro!

There are several "AMEN" in the bible but to avoid long post, this one should be enough.

Zikkyy:

Plappville is not happy to be alive, she has been cursing the day she was born. I hope she never fight her parents for bringing her to this demon & sin infested world. I wonder what she is still doing hanging around

WHAT YOU RE FUNNY YOU KN?? I will reply your posts, i was not able yestarday, happy sisterly "Jesoul" has brought me bck... this is

Zikkyy:

Please allow zikkyy make a little modification to the above. Yes birthday feast/parties were recorded in the bible and the parties were by non-jewish/pagan figures. But this is not say Jews did not acknowledge the day they were given birth to. For anybody to record his/her age, it means that person on an annual basis acknowledge their birthday. I guess what we don't know is if they party on that day. The Jews had more than enough feasts anyways. If the issue is about throwing a feast to mark your birthday, i am not so sure the evidence is enough to call it a sin.

Zikkyy, i have not told you that the bible said birthday parting is a sin or not, what we have presented to you from the scripture shows the negetive outcome of this occasion.

If the Jews yearly marked thier bible and the bible refuses to tell us, then there must be something wrong.
As we know, the birthday accounts in the bible is for us to learn a lesson. we are not to copy bad but Good.
God cannot forget His holy begotten son's birthday if it was important for his children to mark it once or continously, He could have inserted it as a command.

ijawkid:
I am only telling you that the reason why you have that xmas tree hanging in your house is because of the pagans you copied my bro.....haven't you still understood this simple truth.....would have you have had any dealing with decorated trees in your house if not for xmas.

I bet this whole Xmas thing was the result of boredom. To condemn something, all you needed to do was create an issue then criticize it. You are now the one telling me the reason I do what I do. My reason is not acceptable because it will not provide room for you to criticize.

ijawkid:
........you guys claim the reason for the season is Jesus,but na lie....the reason for the season is for paganism to surface and rule..........
....

Lol! you are a clown. My reason for doing what I do is not acceptable. You had to come up with a reason on my behalf and force me to accept it. That way you are able to call me an idol worshipper smh...

truthlyt: "And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness." (1 John 5:19).

So you know this and yet you keep saying that we are of pagans.

truthlyt: yes i do that once in a while, God's servants are a happy people.

Yahweh said that the sons of Israel should use the converted tith money to buy wine and alcoholic drink and rejoice while serving him.

Hmmmm. So you know this and when we celebrate birthday/christmas to rejoice while serving God you end up calling us pagans. SMH. Stop being myopic my dear bother. I guess you have now join the league of those that plappville is calling chop chop people.

truthislight:

"strawman"

i have got no time to west.

If you cannot clear yourself fully, then i think its best you keep mute over this matter, cos you cannot go around calling people pagan worsippers while you are equally guilty. Pot calling kettle black.

Rich4god: Something that i want you guys to understand is that if pagans did/used something before, that does not make it a pagan practice when a christian uses it. Get that into your head.

Its like in Benin, there is a feast they call "Igwe" they do this yearly, imagin a pastor will just wake up and tell them, enough is enough
I have come to present to u my God, he is a living God urs is a dead one, and the people reply ok we would like to accept ur God but we can't let go our Igwe feastival.
The pastor will now tell them, ok you can continue to do ur "igwe" but this time to the new God, we will change the name to "loveforgodfeast", the people are completely happy because thier igwe is not taken away from them. They continue to celebrate thier usual "Igwe", the change of name is nothing to them.

This is How Christmas has come to stay, do you think God will welcome/share such celebration that was not originally for/from Him?

jer 10: 2 thus saith Jehovah, Learn not the way of the nations, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them.

ijawkid:
You should have asked yourself what is the significance of the xmas tree..........ask yourself that question and do some research.........the xmas tree is not just a flower decoration,it symbolizes something.....do research bro.....

You guys are so desperate you have lost all sense of reasoning. The first thing you ask yourself is what the maker of an item symbolizes with it. To the Almighty, what does the plant represent? This is what is important. Did God say that we should not put the Xmas tree in the house? The significance of any item varies with the user. In Nigeria cow is suya, in India it is something else. Please don't come to me with the significance of an item again. I can tell you its significance to me but you are not interested in that. What is interest to you is the significance to some people 500 years ago. Whatever it was applies to those peeps, I use that same item for a different purpose now. There is freedom to use what God has created except where God himself places a restriction, he had the sole authority to do that. If you must criticize the Xmas tree, tell us how its use contravenes the law to love God & neighbor.

true2god: Tank God dat ur founding fathers celebrated xmas (in ignorance, according to u). And u tink there are xcuses for ignorance? Dats ok.

In order word pple dat r celebrating xmas now are worshipin idol cos ur organization now paganizes xmas. While Russel, Rutherford and co dat celebrated xmas some 60 to 80 yrs ago will be ressurected afta armagedon, the xtains celebrating now will not be ressurected cos ur organization now sees it as a pagan stuff. Is dat logical? Who made u or ur org jugde over the pple of God?

Tell me a single place u see any libation, sacrifice, incantation is bein made durin xmas (aside frm picnickin, observing holiday, resting at home, visiting friends etc).

Im sure new yr is also dedicated to idol according to una belief.

Dont mind them, let them keep on been selective/myopic in their way of judgement.

ijawkid:

Kids are from God...but the baal worshippers passed them through the fire in worship of baal......servants of God adopted and did same and faced Jahs wrath.......same goes for your lovely pagan xmas tree.....

Kids are from God, does passing them through fire make the kids pagan? If not, Xmas tree cannot be pagan because pagans used it sometime back knowing Xmas tree is also from God.

ijawkid:
........God is definitly angry when you have an xmas tree that was excerpted from pagan ways.....don't you get it??..............

Who told you God is angry? This again is your personal opinion. I can confirm to you that God is truly happy with me.

TroGunn:

Your answer is clear - in your opinion, there is nothing wrong in adopting a Sango worshipping festival as long as we say we dedicate it to God.

However, clear biblical evidence shows your opinion is incorrect. What you are saying and doing is not new. The Israelites did something similar.

Exodus 32:1-8 shows how they, in their wisdom did a "a feast to the LORD" adopting pagan mode of worship. Dedicating their wrong practice to God, did not make it right. And God was displeased.

Note too that the pagan practices associated with the pagan celebration - the trees as used in the decoration, Santa, the use of lighting, etc - all had meaning which tied to their wrong beliefs and way of worship and were not just ordinary decorations.

We should know how Jesus feels about presumptuously adding man-made practices to God's worship. Jesus said: "In vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" (Matthew 15:9). Christmas observance is a tradition of men.

Summary of Ex 32:1-8... The told Aaron to make a god (an idol) that will go before them. Aaron now made a golden calf (an idol) using their jewelries. Verse 8 now said... They have been quick to turn away from what I commanded them and have made themselves an idol cast in the shape of a calf. They have bowed down to it and sacrificed to it and have said, ‘These are your gods, Israel, who brought you up out of Egypt.’ Plz, where have you seen a christian bowing down to the xmas tree/lights/santa clause etc. Like i told you before, all these are not used for worship, its more of decoration that even secular institution like bank etc even use it. Plz try to see with a clear eyws and stop being myopic.

plappville:

Its like in Benin, there is a feast they call "Igwe" they do this yearly, imagin a pastor will just wake up and tell them, enough is enough
I have come to present to u my God, he is a living God urs is a dead one, and the people reply ok we would like to accept ur God but we can't let go our Igwe feastival.
The pastor will now tell them, ok you can continue to do ur "igwe" but this time to the new God, we will change the name to "loveforgodfeast", the people are completely happy because thier igwe is not taken away from them. They continue to celebrate thier usual "Igwe", the change of name is nothing to them.

This is How Christmas has come to stay, do you think God will welcome/share such celebration that was not originally for/from Him?

jer 10: 2 thus saith Jehovah, Learn not the way of the nations, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the nations are dismayed at them.

Let me give you a parable...
A man leave in a house with his friends (4 in number) and they are all idol worshippers. Now they are all working in a company, where they go to work around 7am and come back by 9pm. So their schedule is like this. They wake up by 5am, praise and worship their god/idol btw 5-6am, then have their breakfast and go to work by 7am. When they comeback from work by 9pm, they have their dinner then @ 9:30pm they pray to their idol for an hour and go to bed by 10:30pm. Now it happened that they get converted to christianity and because of their way/time of work they worship/pray to God at exactly 5-6am and 9:30pm in the same house that they are leaving in. Now my question is, does that mean they are still leaving a life of paganism.

ijawkid:
.............the only reason why you have a tree in your house alongside a Father xmas moulding or painting by december is because of xmas and you have learnt so far how it came about......can't you for once on this thread see the truth??.............

You create a reason for my actions so you can tell me you version of the truth. I asked you earlier, please tell me if the saturnalia worshippers I copied Xmas had Santa Claus and used Xmas tree on their saturnalia worship? You can't come here accusing me of copying saturnalia way of worship and yet refuse to confirm if the activities you accused me of copying are actually saturnalia activities. Please confirm if Xmas tree and Santa are saturnalia activities.

ijawkid:
........you guys claim the reason for the season is Jesus,but na lie....the reason for the season is for paganism to surface and rule..........
....

How do you know its for pagan to surface and rule... Are you the pagan that wants to surface?

plappville:

Zikkyy, i have not told you that the bible said birthday parting is a sin or not, what we have presented to you from the scripture shows the negetive outcome of this occasion.

...and I showed you the positive outcome which cancels your negative outcome. Why do you keep ignoring that one? Is it because it nullifies your argument?

plappville:
If the Jews yearly marked thier bible and the bible refuses to tell us, then there must be something wrong.

We don't know if they partied. What am saying is that you cannot know how old you are if are not counting. for example, a Jew will on his 40th birthday say to himself "yes am 40 today" and do the same for other years. We know they acknowledge their birthday cos they know their age. Party is a different thing. I don't know. Like I said the issue then Will be if feasting inviting friends and well wishers is pagan. Everybody acknowledges their birthday including Jews.

Zikkyy:

I did not send anybody away o!. but come to think of it, how you want me to discuss with somebody that believes satan is somewhere in the north pole running things that one pass my level na. he had the option of discussing with you, ijawkid or truthislight. Afterall he said he came to learn and am sure he could have learnt a lot of stuff from you.

refuting ke! when i have been the one refuting you guys. what was he refuting? that i did not chop on xmas day? besides he did not come here to refute anything. he came to learn.

See my answer below:

plappville:
So few questions for you:

When was the earliest december 25 (christmas day) marked? Zikkyy: Not so sure, i think it sometime in the 3rd or 4th century A.D

When was it officially made a civic Holiday in the Roman Empire? Zikkyy: Honestly, i have not done enough research to answer this one

Was this before Jesus birth or after? Zikkyy: Haba! which kind question be this? how do you want peeps to celebrate Jesus birthday before he was born?

Did the Apostle or Jesus Mother celebrated it? Zikkyy: We are not told they did. I think the apostles had more important issues to think off than go about feasting. Am not sure they attended any party Na who chop belleful dey throw party na, abi you no know? you don't party when there are issues

I believe i have answered your questions. You can see that un-like you i don't dodge questions and i don't manipulate, i tell it as it is.

Your answers are so clear, but it shows you danse like others danse. I appreciate the fact that you ddn't twist a scripture to validate your views on Christmas.

I also grow up keeping christmas, I celebrated it because i trusted wht my parents told me, as a child i had no reason to doubt them, same with alot of celebrants today.
Christmas celebrants put Jesus in Chrismas not minding if He is ever there.

Have you ever reflected on why you believe what u believed or why u do what u do? alot of People do what everyone else does. This is ur case according to ur answers!
Many who are doing christmas are doing it because they think that following the crowd is easy. Not because they want to follow Gods law.

You said the Apostles had more important things thinking than going about feasting, this is a good one from you. I believed this is the example they layed down for us.
We should have more important things to do than going around feasting with the world.

The earliest reference of christmas on 25th december was marked from the second century, it is considered likely the very first Christmas.
It was changed from worship of the SUN to worship of the SON. Anyone who wants to know what Christmas is will take the pain to do some research.

By 529 AD after christianity had become the official state religion of the Roman empire, Emperor Justinian made christmas a cevic Holiday.

You can read the catholic encyclopedia 1911 edition, the buffalo news november 22 1984, wiki etc etc for more...details...
Scripture and History has the truth on Christmas even if Scripture didn't mention "Christmas".

Bottomline is... God created everything in this world, and everything he created is for His own glory. Nothing that he created that is bad except if you want it to be bad. That my igbo ancestors dedicated their yam to any gods/idol/diety during their new yam festival does not make me a pagan when i offer yam as an offering in church. That sango priest wore a yellow wrapper to his shrine does not make me a pagan if i wore a yellow wrapper to church on my child dedication. That muslims wore turban and "tazarce" to their mosque does not make me a muslum when i wear one to church. That any pagan worshipper dedicated iroko tree to their idol does not mean that i am indulging inpaganism if i make use of iroko tree as medicine or anything. Its what you do or how you do it that matters. So plz, spare me all that christmass and idol worship relationship. As long as i have been following this thread, you guys have not provided why xmas is paganism, all you keep saying is that pagans did this or did that. And i have eqully shown some example of your practices that pagans too used, but you dodge away from it.

Zikkyy:

Unbelievable! You guys just pick the bible, turns it upside down before you read it. Only the woman that is frustrated with life can curse the day she was born! No need to curse, the most appropriate thing to do is to hang yourself that way you Will not remember the day you were born. Am sure your brothers ijawkid & truthislight have been cursing the day they were born as well.

The Scripture presented God servants cursing thier date of birth. Are you saying they didn't?
I am not telling you to curse urs, just showing that the day a man is born is of no importance.
As Christians, where we are going is far better than where we are now.

plappville:

Its like in Benin, there is a feast they call "Igwe" they do this yearly, imagin a pastor will just wake up and tell them, enough is enough
I have come to present to u my God, he is a living God urs is a dead one, and the people reply ok we would like to accept ur God but we can't let go our Igwe feastival.
The pastor will now tell them, ok you can continue to do ur "igwe" but this time to the new God, we will change the name to "loveforgodfeast", the people are completely happy because thier igwe is not taken away from them. They continue to celebrate thier usual "Igwe", the change of name is nothing to them.

You don't know what you are talking about. How do you become a Christian and keep the activities associated with festival. The festival requires sacrifice. Are you going to church with the oracle, are you going to sacrifice goat on the pulpit? And sprinkle the blood round the church building? That is very unlike Xmas celebration in church. From my understanding you go to and listen to sermon you would ordinarily listen to if there were to be no Xmas and pray the way you would have prayed if there were to be no Xmas. The only difference would be the Xmas feelings, people are happier and more loving towards their neighbor, a feeling they ordinarily should display of there was nothing like Xmas. But ofcourse most Christians are not truly Christians. So that's a plus for Xmas.

Most activities takes place outside the church. Am yet to receive confirmation from ijawkid if Santa & Xmas tree were inherited from the saturnalia worshippers.

Rich4god:
Really... Are you trying to say that the were not happy that God brought them into this world or what...plz explain.

According to Scripture, If the day of our death is better than the day of our birth,as some of God’s greatest servants said their birth date was far from being a special day, then how special can our birthday be? you will be the one to answer this question, It shows that birthday is not a time to express joy, sing and expect gifts, simply because one is born into the world on a specific date.

Jeremiah 20:14 Cursed be the day wherein I was born: let not the day wherein my mother bare me be blessed.
18 Wherefore came I forth out of the womb to see labour and sorrow, that my days should be consumed with shame?

Ecclesiastes 7:1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.

See it to ur face, i am not fabricating it.

Zikkyy:

You don't know what you are talking about. How do you become a Christian and keep the activities associated with festival. The festival requires sacrifice. Are you going to church with the oracle, are you going to sacrifice goat on the pulpit? And sprinkle the blood round the church building? That is very unlike Xmas celebration in church. From my understanding you go to and listen to sermon you would ordinarily listen to if there were to be no Xmas and pray the way you would have prayed if there were to be no Xmas. The only difference would be the Xmas feelings, people are happier and more loving towards their neighbor, a feeling they ordinarily should display of there was nothing like Xmas. But ofcourse most Christians are not truly Christians. So that's a plus for Xmas.

Most activities takes place outside the church. Am yet to receive confirmation from ijawkid if Santa & Xmas tree were inherited from the saturnalia worshippers.

Zikkyy, the Church still keep the trees and other Christmas decorations, caros are used, etc...You cannot change the uniformity of this old custom.

The only thing they didn't continue in is the killing of thier infants children. The decoration and disguise remains.

plappville:

According to Scripture, If the day of our death is better than the day of our birth,as some of God’s greatest servants said their birth date was far from being a special day, then how special can our birthday be? you will be the one to answer this question, It shows that birthday is not a time to express joy, sing and expect gifts, simply because one is born into the world on a specific date.

Jeremiah 20:14 Cursed be the day wherein I was born: let not the day wherein my mother bare me be blessed.
18 Wherefore came I forth out of the womb to see labour and sorrow, that my days should be consumed with shame?

Ecclesiastes 7:1 A good name is better than precious ointment; and the day of death than the day of one's birth.

See it to ur face, i am not fabricating it.

Am in no way argueing the scripture. But how does my thanking God for keeping me safe for one complete year turns me into a pagan worshiper?. You still havent answered this.

plappville:

Zikkyy, the Church still keep the trees and other Christmas decorations, caros are used, etc...You cannot change the uniformity of this old custom.

The only thing they didn't continue in is the killing of thier infants children. The decoration and disguise remains.

Compare the use of xmas tree in pagan worship to what we find now during xmas and tell me how they are related.

plapville:
The decoration and disguise remains.

The decoration abi... Now are you telling me that all those working in the bank are pagan worshipper because the last time i went to bank, there are christmas tree been used as decoration in the bank.
@bolded, do you mind telling me which disguise.