striktlymi:

Good evenng sir,

I don't think it's about deceit. If you are of the opinion that Islam permits it's faithfuls to commit suicide, then I will appreciate it if you would quote the relevant passage of the Quran.

I have read various arguments for and against. For now those who believe the Quran is not in support of Suicide have had the better argument so far with evidence from the Quran.

So sir, if you are certain that the Quran encourages it's members to commit suicide, I will be most grateful if you would support your claims with the Quran. I will go through the video you posted when I am with my laptop but for the benefit of those who do not have laptops I will suggest you help with the quotes from the Quran.


Thank you!

GET UR POINT STRAIGHT, DURING THE TIME OF MOHAMMED WE HAD NOTHING LIKE SUICIDE BOMBING, SO HOW DO YOU EXPECT THE QURAN TO MENTION IT. SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE"DO NOT SMOKE" THEN I WILL SHOW YOU SAME.

apoti: Wow, I am so impressed going through this thread. Not because of the topic (I don't care whether islam permits suicide or not). But I am impressed by the courtesy and respect the posters have shown each other whilst expressing their views. I wish all threads could be like this

You are very right.This is the best Thread ever since i have joined this NiaraLand.Am really touched by the composition and comprehension of your quotes and comments ..Kudos to you guys

striktlymi: Good morning everyone,

I opened this thread in the forum for other religious sect given that I am a Christian and partly because it was stated that this forum is Muslims. Since I cannot find the answers I seek from those who are not Muslims, I decided to bring it here with the hope of getting the answers I seek.

This thread is not guided by hate but a strong desire to know and understand. Please I ask everyone who wants to post to lighten up on the insults.

My Uncle was killed by a suicide bomber from Bokoharam some months back and we just celebrated his funeral. Though I do not hold a grudge against every muslim cause I believe we have some very good muslims out there who I dare say are better than some Christians.

But after some sober reflections I felt the need to understand why he died. I am aware of the "Cause" of Bokoharam and some of their grouse against anyone who is not Muslim but still I need to understand their drive. For someone to agree to blow himself up suggests some driven force. I don't think it's just the part of the virgins cause if the quran frowns against suicide then their hope of getting those virgins is dashed.

So my question again is: Does the quran support Suicide? Quotes from the quran will be appreciated.

Thank you!

Yes it does

hussyhassy: salam tunji where ever u are on this planet may Allah s.w.t give u all gud things on earth n d day after may u b blessed with d best job in d world.amin 4givn such wonderful anwers to ds forum

Ameen and you too my brother.

Waiting for someone to call Dr Zakir a teacher of falsehood
@ the OP,I have dealt with Muslims online
They are very educated in the art of deception
They will tell an ignorant non Muslim all the flowery things they want you to know and even when they lie in doing so,it is permitted in Islam to tell lies to deceive the gullible for the furtherance of Islam. So even lying depends on the situation

There are many main stream teachings in Islam that are not quotations from the Koran but generally accepted because Mohammed did them and taught to do them
They are recorded in the hadiths and form part of their sharia.
It is a complicated set up and the answers are blowing in the wind.

babyosisi:

I added to my post,please see it,
The Koran does not tell Muslims to go to Mecca either but they do
The lifestyle and teachings of Mohammed as recorded in the hadiths are just as important as the Koran in Islam
Did you watch the clip?
See if any Muslim here will dispute what Naik Zakir just said

Evening again sir,

I just went through the video and I believe the argument put forward by the 'Scholar' has already been addressed by Mr. Tunji. If you check the post of Mr. Tunji (I think it should be the 4th post in the thread), he brought out both arguments. Some scholars believe it's against the tenets of the Quran while some other scholars are of the opinion that it can be allowed if and only if it is part of a Military strategy and no innocent person is killed in the process.

Sir, I have gone through both arguments and like I mentioned before, no open and unbiased mind, whether Muslim or non-muslim, can fault the argument of those who believe the Quran is against suicide. Those proponents of suicide in exceptional cases really were not readily convincing. Sure, they appeal to the emotions and they applied philosophy but when one takes a cursory look at their argument, we would realize that the argument deviates from what the Quran prescribes.

As for the point you raised concerning some practices that are not explicit in the Quran but which are performed by Muslims, I really do not know much about that. Like I have maintained, I am not an Islamic scholar and neither do I pretend to know the Quran but what I do know is that I can discern a sound argument when I see one while considering the evidence at my disposal. So, it would be very inappropriate for a Muslim or any body for that matter to do something which is wrong just because some other person (who claims to be an authority) asked the person to do it. It's similar to a judge asking someone to commit murder. Murder is wrong irrespective of who asked an individual to do it. Same argument can be applied here. It is explicit in the Quran that suicide is wrong irrespective of the 'Islamic scholars' that prescribes it.


Thank you!

I believe d poser isn't a christian,if not,he wouldn't asked the questions he asked.did u expect the muslims guys to tell u that the don't commit sucide for Allah's sake?go and study how islam is always able to capture a territory if its not through war.are u telling me that if the boko harams guys succeed in their missions,their cleric won't tell them that they have their rewards purely kept for them in heaven?shine ur eye.why is it that when prophet mohd is potray a s bad,his followers starts causing trouble?are u telling me that d don't know what d are doing?u can only decieve few people,not all.

babyosisi: Waiting for someone to call Dr Zakir a teacher of falsehood
@ the OP,I have dealt with Muslims online
They are very educated in the art of deception
They will tell an ignorant non Muslim all the flowery things they want you to know and even when they lie in doing so,it is permitted in Islam to tell lies to deceive the gullible for the furtherance of Islam. S even lying depends on the situation

There are many main stream teachings in Islam that are not quotations from the Koran but generally accepted because Mohammed did them and taught to do them
They are recorded in the hadiths and form part of their sharia.
It is a complicated set up and the answers are blowing in the wind.

So the Prophet committed suicide? Zakir Naik has erred in his opinion if what you say is true (I haven't watched the video).

striktlymi:

Evening again sir,

I just went through the video and I believe the argument put forward by the 'Scholar' has already been addressed by Mr. Tunji. If you check the post of Mr. Tunji (I think it should be the 4th post in the thread), he brought out both arguments. Some scholars believe it's against the tenets of the Quran while some other scholars are of the opinion that it can be allowed if and only if it is part of a Military strategy and no innocent person is killed in the process.

Sir, I have gone through both arguments and like I mentioned before, no open and unbiased mind, whether Muslim or non-muslim, can fault the argument of those who believe the Quran is against suicide. Those proponents of suicide in exceptional cases really were not readily convincing. Sure, they appeal to the emotions and they applied philosophy but when one takes a cursory look at their argument, we would realize that the argument deviates from what the Quran prescribes.

As for the point you raised concerning some practices that are not explicit in the Quran but which are performed by Muslims, I really do not know much about that. Like I have maintained, I am not an Islamic scholar and neither do I pretend to know the Quran but what I do know is that I can discern a sound argument when I see one while considering the evidence at my disposal. So, it would be very inappropriate for a Muslim or any body for that matter to do something which is wrong just because some other person (who claims to be an authority) asked the person to do it. It's similar to a judge asking someone to commit murder. Murder is wrong irrespective of who asked an individual to do it. Same argument can be applied here. It is explicit in the Quran that suicide is wrong irrespective of the 'Islamic scholars' that prescribes it.


Thank you!

Now,did you hear any Muslims accuse the proponents of suicide bombings in those cases as being non Muslims or being teachers of a false doctrine or non believers?
You won't hear that because both the people that are for and against it all call themselves brothers in their same religion .
The clip I posted is a perfect example
Did you come off with an answer that islam forbids suicide bombing?
No you didn't because those two groups are still practicing Islam
It depends on whose school of thought you follow and all those schools of thought are acceptable in interpreting Islam
That is something non Muslims must never forget

DANILSA:
GET UR POINT STRAIGHT, DURING THE TIME OF MOHAMMED WE HAD NOTHING LIKE SUICIDE BOMBING, SO HOW DO YOU EXPECT THE QURAN TO MENTION IT. SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE"DO NOT SMOKE" THEN I WILL SHOW YOU SAME.

Good evening sir,

With due respect sir, I don't think your argument is tenable. Those who practice suicide bombings do so because they believe they are fighting Jihad and they are of the view that they can attain martyrdom through this process. In the time of Muhammed there was Jihad, martyrdom is extolled and there was suicide. Despite these facts, the prophet never recommended suicide as a way of fighting Jihad nor attaining martyrdom.

If you have a contrary view to do this, I am most glad to hear it but please try and back it up with at least one quote from the Quran.


Thank you!

REVOLUTNIS:
Yes it does

Good evening to you sir,

Please I will really appreciate it if you will explain further. If possible I will be glad if you will back up your explanation with relevant quotes from the Quran.



Thank you!

books shouldn't determine how we live our lives. suicide is not good, simple.

nooooooooo

Paris_Love:
Yea right

Don't mind d guy,d guy may not be a christian.u knw d are very logical as u said.

striktlymi:

Good evening to you sir,

Please I will really appreciate it if you will explain further. If possible I will be glad if you will back up your explanation with relevant quotes from the Quran.



Thank you!

Sharia teaches that an adulteress be stoned to death
Find me a passage of the Koran that says so
It is part of sharia but it is not in the Koran anywhere
I am taking these pains to tell you that Islam has other sources that form their sharia besides the Koran
I wish you could understand that bit
But when they deceive you they tell you it is not in the Koran so it is wrong and the gullible swallow it
They won't tell you there are other schools of thought that disagree and it is still Islamic
But they know you are being deceived but you don't know

babyosisi: Waiting for someone to call Dr Zakir a teacher of falsehood
@ the OP,I have dealt with Muslims online
They are very educated in the art of deception
They will tell an ignorant non Muslim all the flowery things they want you to know and even when they lie in doing so,it is permitted in Islam to tell lies to deceive the gullible for the furtherance of Islam. So even lying depends on the situation

There are many main stream teachings in Islam that are not quotations from the Koran but generally accepted because Mohammed did them and taught to do them
They are recorded in the hadiths and form part of their sharia.
It is a complicated set up and the answers are blowing in the wind.

Well sir, I quite agree that in the midst of every gathering you would find those who are very good in the art of deception. This is not only peculiar to Muslims. Some Christians do the same.

Anyways, I am not one to be deceived and that is why I ask you to provide evidence to back up your claims.

Now since you are of the opinion that Muslims tend to do things Muhammed did in his life time even though they are not in the Quran, do you have proof that the prophet committed suicide in his time? Because if this is so, then I would understand why some misguided muslims commit this awful act.

But sir, it is known that the prophet never committed suicide and he did not encourage same in the Quran.


Thank you sir!

Itoroetti :

Don't mind d guy,d guy may not be a christian.u knw d are very logical as u said.

Good evening sir,

You might be correct but my religious affiliation is not what is under scrutiny here. If you have any contribution (whether for or against with evidence) I will be very glad to hear it.

And for the avoidance of doubt, I am a Christian and not just any Christian but a Catholic Christian.


Thank you!

Itoroetti :
I believe d poser isn't a christian,if not,he wouldn't asked the questions he asked.did u expect the muslims guys to tell u that the don't commit sucide for Allah's sake?go and study how islam is always able to capture a territory if its not through war.are u telling me that if the boko harams guys succeed in their missions,their cleric won't tell them that they have their rewards purely kept for them in heaven?shine ur eye.why is it that when prophet mohd is potray a s bad,his followers starts causing trouble?are u telling me that d don't know what d are doing?u can only decieve few people,not all.

Your opinion! Your right!

If suicide bombing is a sure way to heaven why is every Muslim not bombing himself. Why haven't the leaders of BOKO haram not bombed themselves

If the quran does not permits why do they always recite this before going for the evil act (From God we come and to him we all return)

babyosisi:

Now,did you hear any Muslims accuse the proponents of suicide bombings in those cases as being non Muslims or being teachers of a false doctrine or non believers?
You won't hear that because both the people that are for and against it all call themselves brothers in their same religion .
The clip I posted is a perfect example
Did you come off with an answer that islam forbids suicide bombing?
No you didn't because those two groups are still practicing Islam
It depends on whose school of thought you follow and all those schools of thought are acceptable in interpreting Islam
That is something non Muslims must never forget

1. An average muslim can not term another person a non-muslim, we do not have that right. So even when muslims do wrong, we can call the act wrong but we do not termed them non-muslims. Your assertion is wrong because already on this thread, muslims have condemned suicide attacks.

Quotes from this thread

1. People who kill themselves have committed a huge sin that could earn them the fire... suicide is forbidden. People try to go round the rules looking for justification to push their agenda, but it is clear from the Quran and the sayings of the Prophet (Peace and blessings be upon him)

Actually those guys are interested only in their own peculiar and narrowly-defined objectives
To them, if there are Muslim casualties - no problem, they are just collateral damage and perhaps those too will go to Jannah
Like someone mentioned, if suicide bombing opens the door to the highest level in Jannah, what is Shekau (BH's leader) still doing in this "unjust and sinful" world?

Good evening all,

I know some persons mean well but its about time we separate emotions from sound argument. If anyone should be emotional here, it should be me. My uncle was killed by a suicide bomber. We should really learn to keep sentiments aside and face the facts. For now the facts support the claims of those who believe that suicide is against the tenets of Islam. If you have a contrary view, is it too much to ask that you let us hear your arguments with proof or sound logic?



Thank you!

jidejoseph: If the quran does not permits why do they always recite this before going for the evil act (From God we come and to him we all return)

It's difficult to stop evil men from saying whatever they want to say. I am assuming that you heard them say those words - because I have not.

babyosisi:

Sharia teaches that an adulteress be stoned to death
Find me a passage of the Koran that says so
It is part of sharia but it is not in the Koran anywhere
I am taking these pains to tell you that Islam has other sources that form their sharia besides the Koran
I wish you could understand that bit
But when they deceive you they tell you it is not in the Koran so it is wrong and the gullible swallow it
They won't tell you there are other schools of thought that disagree and it is still Islamic
But they know you are being deceived but you don't know

And how did it become part of Islamic Jurisprudence? The Prophet (SAW) applied the rule after a woman came forward herself on three occasions to announce her guilt publicly . By the same logic, show us where the Prophet committed suicide or asked someone to.

You rush to antiIslamic sources and absorb their dogma and then think you are learned. #Silly.

I have meetings to attend jare.

striktlymi:

Good morning again Tunji,

I read through both arguments in the links you provided and from what I read, I am convinced that Islam is against all forms of suicide.

The first argument was very thorough, delving into various forms of suicide and even Euthansia. I was particularly glad that the author used the quran as the basis for his arguments. It would be impossible for any open and unbiased mind to fault his argument.

The second author, though is of the opinion that suicide is condemned by the quran but he believes that some form of suicide can be allowed. This argument might seem appealing but I wasn't convinced because he failed to back this position with the quran. Instead he relied on philosophy to drive home his point. His opinion that suicide is permissible when someone is forced into it is not readily convincing for me because the quran stated clearly that even if you suffer some unbearable wound, (which can be an excuse for forced suicide) suicide is still not permissible.

However, I noted that "intent" is a very important concept in Islam. And the intent of a suicide bomber might just be his or her escape route from hell. I am of the opinion that if the suicide bomber who killed my Uncle did it out of a sincerity of heart and is ignorant of the provisions in the quran about suicide then that individual can make heaven if he lead a good life before the bombing.

Thank you once again Tunji, cause now I know that my Uncle's death was not brought about by the teachings of the quran. I pray for the soul of my Uncle and the person who murdered him and hope that both of them make heaven.


Thank you!

i really commend ur courage.

just dnt know why this 'Striktlymi' sounds like a muslim to me. I grew up with muslims, then this people were good o we use to go normal. Now i cant roll with them. This una religion self. Everywhere una dey for this world peace no dey. I'm not in for any argument. One thing that bothers me sef about you people _i dont see any effort your islamic leaders are making to condem this group of reta.rds called boko haram

striktlymi: Good evening all,

I know some persons mean well but its about time we separate emotions from sound argument. If anyone should be emotional here, it should be me. My uncle was killed by a suicide bomber. We should really learn to keep sentiments aside and face the facts. For now the facts support the claims of those who believe that suicide is against the tenets of Islam. If you have a contrary view, is it too much to ask that you let us hear your arguments with proof or sound logic?



Thank you!

First of all asking me to show you suicide bombing in the Koran is laughable
Where there bombs developed at the time of Mohammed ?

The issue is not suicidev bombing but martyrdom
It is a high honor in Islam to be killed for the course of Islam
And to do maximum damage on non believers and achieve the state of martyrdom is like an icing on the cake
That's the purpose
That is the reason why some schools of thought accepted in Islam say so.

babyosisi:

Sharia teaches that an adulteress be stoned to death
Find me a passage of the Koran that says so
It is part of sharia but it is not in the Koran anywhere
I am taking these pains to tell you that Islam has other sources that form their sharia besides the Koran
I wish you could understand that bit
But when they deceive you they tell you it is not in the Koran so it is wrong and the gullible swallow it

Islamic law is based on the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet because the Quran says:

The only saying of the faithful believers,when they are called to Allah (His Words, the Quran) and His Messenger (SAW), to judge between them, is that they say: WE HEAR AND WE OBEY.And such are the prosperous ones (who will live forever in Paradise ). (Surah Al-Nur, Ayat 51]

We obey the teachings of the prophet because the Quran says so: Not the other way around. There are many instances where the prophet example guides a muslim's life.

One quick example which is frequently used but is a great reminder.Allah (swt) commands us to pray but does not tell us how. So how do we know how to pray? From the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw). And how do we know the Sunnah? From the hadith.

Allah (swt) commanded us to follow the Prophet (saw), and that can't be done without Hadith.

The Quran in its perfection gave us an example to help us follow its values.

The fact the punishment was prescribed by the prophet who we are commanded to obey by God is enough.

The completeness of the Quran is in that it gives you a course of action to take, in every situation.

J-LANCE:
just dnt know why this 'Striktlymi' sounds like a muslim to me. I grew up with muslims, then this people were good o we use to go normal. Now i cant roll with them. This una religion self. Everywhere una dey for this world peace no dey. I'm not in for any argument. One thing that bothers me sef about you people _i dont see any effort your islamic leaders are making to condem this group of reta.rds called boko haram

I figured that out already
He is a Muslim trying to sound ignorant
It is all part of the Jihad of deception
Na today

tbaba1234:

Islamic law is based on the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet because the Quran says:

The only saying of the faithful believers,when they are called to Allah (His Words, the Quran) and His Messenger (SAW), to judge between them, is that they say: WE HEAR AND WE OBEY.And such are the prosperous ones (who will live forever in Paradise ). (Surah Al-Nur, Ayat 51]

We obey the teachings of the prophet because the Quran says so: Not the other way around. There are many instances where the prophet example guides a muslim's life.

One quick example which is frequently used but is a great reminder.Allah (swt) commands us to pray but does not tell us how. So how do we know how to pray? From the Sunnah of the Prophet (saw). And how do we know the Sunnah? From the hadith.

Allah (swt) commanded us to follow the Prophet (saw), and that can't be done without Hadith.

The Quran in its perfection gave us an example to help us follow its values.

The fact the punishment was prescribed by the prophet who we are commanded to obey by God is enough.

The completeness of the Quran is in that it gives you a course of action to take, in every situation.

Find me a Koran passage on stoning adulteress
Not dogon turenchi
I am trying to prove to the poster that in sing something in the Koran is not the proof that it is acceptable

jidejoseph: If the quran does not permits why do they always recite this before going for the evil act (From God we come and to him we all return)

When armed robbers pray in jesus name before a mission does that mean Christianity permits robbery.
Does Christianity permit homosexuals, yet we have gay bishops. Evil people will always be evil