Bidam: read or heard? Pls can you quote a verse of scripture where Jesus said allah?

the Aramaic word for God is "Alah" according to the Lexicon offered at http: www.peshitta.org/ .


image: W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, William White Jr., Vine's Complete Exposition Dictionary , Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville, TN, 1996

reyginus, i dont want you. i dont wanna have you.

by frosbel(m): 4:20pm

[quote author=Sweetnecta]and those muslims chanted their way to the top, leaving you in the dust below in school and at your job. I am certain that is the fact. there is a muslim who is your boss at work right now.



Leaving me in the dust huh

I am a boss in my own right, and no my Boss is not a Muslim , though I am not small minded to care either way. I interact with muslims often and they are not the fanatic type like some here , lol.

everyone is a boss in his own right. even all he bosses upon is a computer in his cubical. fanatics. na wa for you o. i need the family to send you back to the storage room. they have been too lenient on you.

it seems as if you have agreement from God about the Day of Judgment? you do not believe there is hell. i have read a few of your post of thinking there is no reward for evil.


Your version of HELL is an illusion and more like a fairy tale.

again, you seem to be saying that your agreement is iron clad. you may ask for an agreement not to die.



@logicboy03; where are you? you are running. you are under the heaven of God. you are standing on the earth of God. you cant hide. God sees you while you dont see Him. your hands are too short to box with God. you started it. you asked for this. now you are skiddish.

Sweetnecta: God knows who His Messenger with His Book is. You are not. The jews says Jesus was not. God knows Jesus is. You, the jews and your christian brethren say Muhammad [sa] is not. God knows he is. You can write what you will and say its from God. Many have. Jeremiah let us know that the jews of his days changed the torah. The same changed torah in your bibles, today. you call it word of God, erroneously, so. What is completely from God fulfilling what is authentic in the books before it, you now deny it and the prophet who corrects and sets matters aright.


the father of faith is Abraham. we must expect that his faith is the right faith from God. since he was not a jew, he was not a christian, too. then no prophet is a jew or chrstian. the only Abrahamaic religion standing is Islam. and thats the logical evidence, even from your own write up here that Jesus was a muslim. logically so.


a prophet who preached the existence of God would not believe in "the God delusion, by richard dawkins". however a prophet believes in the prophet that succeeds him. just in the same way that the one after him believed him as a previous prophet of God. Jesus would have followed Muhammad just the same way Moses would have followed Jesus.


but it is in this Quran you will find the complete Islam. and it is in the time of this prophet [Muhammad [sa]] that Islam is completed. are you not spiting your face because you dislike your nose? you can't use Quran to argue against belief in God, because the complete and final format of belief in God is in it. and not in any book, being the last revelation of God.


the only way you could have won this argument is if Jesus had said there is no one to come after him. but he said expect the comforter, the prophet who was neither Jesus the christ nor John who was Elijah, according to biblical Jesus. The idea is that if Abraham were to be alive when Moses was preaching, he would have supported him against pharaoh. Moses would have supported Jesus against the lost sheep of the house of israel and Jesus would have supported Muhammad against disbeief.

The flaw in all this is that you begin with the unproven assumption that Muhammad is a prophet and the Quran is the word of God. Such an assumption is a logical fallacy called "begging the question". Unlike you I do not start with the assumption that Muhammad is a prophet, and until that time occurs I cannot accept your argument. In addition you speculate on 'what the prophets would do' in certain situations. This is also a logical fallacy.

Also, the Bahai claim that Baha'ullah is the next prophet after Muhammad, and they cite Quranic verses as backup. Why is Baha'ullah then not considered a Muslim?

Also to clear up any confusion: you referred to me as a Christian. I am not a Christian, I am an atheist. Jesus was neither a prophet nor the son of God.

What does Sweetnecta want from me?

Logicboy03: What does Sweetnecta want from me?

Lololol. Logicboy, the way you ask this question always get me rolling on the floor.

the wozzie logicboy03 is asking question as if he is innocent. werent you the person who brought this on yourself when you attacked islam and asked that i opened a thread to talk about it?

by onetrack: 9:20pm On Jan 08

Sweetnecta: God knows who His Messenger with His Book is. You are not. The jews says Jesus was not. God knows Jesus is. You, the jews and your christian brethren say Muhammad [sa] is not. God knows he is. You can write what you will and say its from God. Many have. Jeremiah let us know that the jews of his days changed the torah. The same changed torah in your bibles, today. you call it word of God, erroneously, so. What is completely from God fulfilling what is authentic in the books before it, you now deny it and the prophet who corrects and sets matters aright.


the father of faith is Abraham. we must expect that his faith is the right faith from God. since he was not a jew, he was not a christian, too. then no prophet is a jew or chrstian. the only Abrahamaic religion standing is Islam. and thats the logical evidence, even from your own write up here that Jesus was a muslim. logically so.


a prophet who preached the existence of God would not believe in "the God delusion, by richard dawkins". however a prophet believes in the prophet that succeeds him. just in the same way that the one after him believed him as a previous prophet of God. Jesus would have followed Muhammad just the same way Moses would have followed Jesus.


but it is in this Quran you will find the complete Islam. and it is in the time of this prophet [Muhammad [sa]] that Islam is completed. are you not spiting your face because you dislike your nose? you can't use Quran to argue against belief in God, because the complete and final format of belief in God is in it. and not in any book, being the last revelation of God.


the only way you could have won this argument is if Jesus had said there is no one to come after him. but he said expect the comforter, the prophet who was neither Jesus the christ nor John who was Elijah, according to biblical Jesus. The idea is that if Abraham were to be alive when Moses was preaching, he would have supported him against pharaoh. Moses would have supported Jesus against the lost sheep of the house of israel and Jesus would have supported Muhammad against disbeief.


The flaw in all this is that you begin with the unproven assumption that Muhammad is a prophet and the Quran is the word of God.

is there any other way? Moses became a prophet at the burning bush. was anyone there to witness it, but that we believed Moses was honest? Muhammad [sa] was amin [the truthful]. so what disqualifies Muhammad [sa] from being a prophet and what qualifies Moses as prophet and who can absolutely say a person is a prophet of God, except God Himself? if i use the bible to qualify a prophet, in ot and nt, whatever qualifies a person as prophet, Muhammad [sa] fits each to a t.

Such an assumption is a logical fallacy called "begging the question".

begging the question when i answered the opinion of proving a prophet as a prophet by all possible evidences. nothing Muhammad [sa] said that has not came to pass in the exact time, exactly as he said it will happen. God spoke through Muhammad in a revelation called Al Quran. what no one fulfills in the Bible, Muhammad [sa] fulfilled it: he shall not speak of his own but what he hears from God he shall repeat. . .

Unlike you I do not start with the assumption that Muhammad is a prophet, and until that time occurs I cannot accept your argument. In addition you speculate on 'what the prophets would do' in certain situations. This is also a logical fallacy.

i am sure that you will not apply the same rules to others you call prophets. heck. who are you anyway as if you are important? no. not at all. prophet of God does not have to be popular with disbelievers. heck. you are a disbeliever.

Also, the Bahai claim that Baha'ullah is the next prophet after Muhammad, and they cite Quranic verses as backup. Why is Baha'ullah then not considered a Muslim?

i dont know who bahai and baha'ullah are. Allah answers them in the same Quran. chapter 33 where Muhammad is stated as the last/seal of prophets. no prophet will come after him. he also emphasized that in his sunan. you and baha and baha'ullah are liars.

Also to clear up any confusion: you referred to me as a Christian. I am not a Christian, I am an atheist. Jesus was neither a prophet nor the son of God.

Jesus was a prophet [as]. you better not live a life of deceit. someday you will grow up and see how feeble you are. i give you 60 years.

lol.....Sweetnecta, I thin onetrack is handling you well!

F00028:

the Aramaic word for God is "Alah" according to the Lexicon offered at http: www.peshitta.org/ .


image: W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger, William White Jr., Vine's Complete Exposition Dictionary , Thomas Nelson Publishers, Nashville, TN, 1996

wrong...allah is an arabic word for a moon god. Now u said alah is an aramaic word u may be right or wrong since there is a little diffrence between the aramaic and arabic tongue...but we know our God name as YHWH through archeological and linguistic discoveries.

Bidam: wrong...allah is an arabic word for a moon god. Now u said alah is an aramaic word u may be right or wrong since there is a little diffrence between the aramaic and arabic tongue...but we know our God name as YHWH through archeological and linguistic discoveries.

if Allah/Alah = moon god, then Jesus was calling on a false god on the cross.

YHWH: Yahweh- Elohim's Historical Evolution (Pre-Biblical);
Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld y de la Torre, M.A. Ed.
http://www.bibleorigins.net YahwehYawUgarit.html

If the Catholic church has not promoted the idea with Interfaith doctrine and went as far as to state in the catechism that the Muslims worship the same God as Christianity and therefore will enjoy the same salvation equally. You Muslim would have gotten no room claiming Biblical prophets to be Islam, Even when Islam arises after the death of all of Them. It's sad to know that an internal body of Christ thinks it doesn't matter if one is a Christian or a Muslim and that one can find salvation through either religion.
I think this idea shows the God of the Bible is confused, and this is contradictory.

frosbel:

Jesus's mission certainly was not to prepare the way for another bogus and morally inferior 'prophet' , talk less of bowing down 5 times before mecca..... what !!! , they prayed in Jerusalem not Mecca.

In fact I will go ahead and call your scholars thieves, stealing stories from the bible and adding Gnostic fables to form unbelievable and concocted stories bordering on comedy.

The original thief is the one after he misunderstood when Moses said GOd will send a man like himself to the Israelites, knowing that Ishmael is half Abraham and half Arab, He now drawdown His plan. And this plan worked for Him because it has to work to fulfill bible prophecy of *False Prophets*

Sweetnecta: judaism is a religion made up by men and was not what was revealed to any prophet [as]. no prophet worshiped God by it, just like no prophet worshiped God by christianity. jew is an ethnic group. and they developed religious identity of their own based on their heritage.

God said to Moses make prayer of standing, bowing and prostration of face in My remembrance. Jesus demonstrated this prayer was relevant in his time and it is relevant now because Muhammmad [sa] the prophet of our time was commanded to do the same and tell believers to do it.
Hindus believe in One God. yet they worship through many gods. same way the children of Israel by thie golden calf. unless you will say the golden calf is their yahweh?

Who commanded Mohammed'? Whats you proof? How many of Mohammed kind have come and go and they did have followers till date even if their numbers are not large. The only reason Islam Is wide spread is because Mohammed used force to convert the while of Arabic nations. Islam Do not have one God you can go ahead and deceive ignorants. You are not different from the Hindus in this area!!

In the Old Testament, near Israel's beginnings, worship of a false god called Baal began, and consisted of worshiping the heavenly bodies, of which the moon is the largest in the sky. The biblical and historical evidence shows that the Moabites worshiped Baal. The pre-Islamic sources showed that the Meccans took over the idol *Hubal* from the Moabites and tht Allah and Hubal are actually identical. Thus, whether the Mecans are Ishmaelites or not, the evidence is still strong and sufficient to conclude that Muhammad's Allah is actually Hubal, i.e., the Baal of the Moabites and thus not the God of the Bible. Mohammad incorporated the characteristics and names of various other gods into his new monotheistic msg about Allah, but he apparently started the construction of Allah with Hubal, the chief god of the Meccans. How different Is Islam and Hindus ?

The pre-Islam pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making a pilgrimage to Mecca, running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah, kissing the black stone, killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god, throwing stones at the devil, fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

I have nit been to Mecca, but have seen recent months news shows that shows modern day Muslims practice these very rituals.

Muslims are worshiping the same false god that people ve been worshiping since early times as far back as Israel's beginnings.

Muslims will say you don’t need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved! Muslims will admit that Jesus was a true prophet, but deny that He was the Messiah, the Son of God, and also deny that He died on the cross and rose again. Does that make sense? Absolutely not! Islam belief cannot be truth becis Christ Himself said He was the Messiah, and said He was the Son of God!

John 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.

That would make Him a false prophet according to the Muslim beliefs! How twisted is that? But it’s a lie believed by one and a half billion people. We absolutely must believe that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, was crucified for our sins and rose again. This is the gospel!

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Ther is no salvation in any other name but Jesus! Not Mohammed, not Buddha; no other name no never.

Sweetnecta: the wozzie logicboy03 is asking question as if he is innocent. werent you the person who brought this on yourself when you attacked islam and asked that i opened a thread to talk about it?

is there any other way? Moses became a prophet at the burning bush. was anyone there to witness it, but that we believed Moses was honest? Muhammad [sa] was amin [the truthful]. so what disqualifies Muhammad [sa] from being a prophet and what qualifies Moses as prophet and who can absolutely say a person is a prophet of God, except God Himself? if i use the bible to qualify a prophet, in ot and nt, whatever qualifies a person as prophet, Muhammad [sa] fits each to a t.

I'm afraid that no prophet has ever proven themselves, at least to people who consider themselves rationalists and empiricists. Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad were not prophets. I'm not just picking on Muhammad here, I don't believe in any prophet or religion.

begging the question when i answered the opinion of proving a prophet as a prophet by all possible evidences. nothing Muhammad [sa] said that has not came to pass in the exact time, exactly as he said it will happen. God spoke through Muhammad in a revelation called Al Quran. what no one fulfills in the Bible, Muhammad [sa] fulfilled it: he shall not speak of his own but what he hears from God he shall repeat. . .

I'm not aware of even a single precise, specific prediction that Muhammad made that has come to pass. Or, rather, I can make predictions also: in the coming years there will be wars, diseases, sexual immorality, jealousy, and greed. If this comes true then will you accept me as a prophet?

i am sure that you will not apply the same rules to others you call prophets. heck. who are you anyway as if you are important? no. not at all. prophet of God does not have to be popular with disbelievers. heck. you are a disbeliever.

I don't call anyone a prophet; and yes, I am certainly a disbeliever.

i dont know who bahai and baha'ullah are. Allah answers them in the same Quran. chapter 33 where Muhammad is stated as the last/seal of prophets. no prophet will come after him. he also emphasized that in his sunan. you and baha and baha'ullah are liars.

If you use the same standard of evidence for Baha'ullah as you do for Muhammad, then both of them should be called liars, or both are prophets.

Jesus was a prophet [as]. you better not live a life of deceit. someday you will grow up and see how feeble you are. i give you 60 years.

Fine, call Jesus a prophet, just as long as you realize that this is purely a matter of faith, which is defined as 'belief in the absence of evidence'. But you are correct on one thing: I would be living a life of deceit if I claimed that I believed in Jesus or Muhammad, because I don't. Can you show me that Muhammad was not being deceitful? Can you prove that he was not, deep in his heart, an atheist?

In 60 years I will be in a much less organized state of existence (i.e. dead). I am not a young man.

F00028: hey jesoul, manmustwac, how come my post (posts no. 136) is hidden and Bidams post saying Allah is a moon god is not ?

Pyguru. What was in it btw?

F00028: hey jesoul, manmustwac, how come my post (posts no. 136) is hidden and Bidams post saying Allah is a moon god is not ?

Your post was tagged by the spambot & am sure it was the link attached to your post that caused it. As for bidams post (like you said in your email) you have to mention the date & time for us to be able to trace it because nairaland posts are not numbered.

this was all:

Bidam: wrong...allah is an arabic word for a moon god. Now u said alah is an aramaic word u may be right or wrong since there is a little diffrence between the aramaic and arabic tongue...but we know our God name as YHWH through archeological and linguistic discoveries.

if Allah/Alah= moon god then Jesus was calling to a false god on the cross.

YHWH: Yahweh-Elohim's Historical Evolution (Pre-Biblical),
Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld y de la Torre, M.A. Ed.

by plappville(f): 7:26am
If the Catholic church has not promoted the idea with Interfaith doctrine and went as far as to state in the catechism that the Muslims worship the same God as Christianity and therefore will enjoy the same salvation equally. You Muslim would have gotten no room claiming Biblical prophets to be Islam, Even when Islam arises after the death of all of Them. It's sad to know that an internal body of Christ thinks it doesn't matter if one is a Christian or a Muslim and that one can find salvation through either religion.
I think this idea shows the God of the Bible is confused, and this is contradictory.

i wonder what happened when the Bible God said to the children of Israel that He is 1 God, through the mouth of Moses and turn around and says He is 3 through the mouth of Jesus, His son, the very Him killed by His creatures, His chosen tribe? the Bible is complete confusion and which ever verse is worthy of rescue, the Quran has. you can see the true God and the commands He laid out for man to follow in the Quran.

by plappville(f): 7:46am

frosbel:

Jesus's mission certainly was not to prepare the way for another bogus and morally inferior 'prophet' , talk less of bowing down 5 times before mecca..... what !!! , they prayed in Jerusalem not Mecca.

if you copy frosbel, following his footsteps, you will definitely say there is no hell for disbelievers. another bogus and morally inferior 'prophet' you said. it reminds me of an another comforter. there must have been one before. can you name a previous one. i can name many previous comforter before the last predicted in the another comforter statement. the another comforter was to hear from God, as a messenger and speak out what he heard from God without adding or deleting from it. He shall speak in the Name of God. In the 114 chapters of Quran, you have 114 verses "in the Name of God, The Merciful, The Beneficent". And i know that you have seen muslims in London. they face the Kaaba, in Makka, ultimately in prayers. God debased the jews when He told the muslims to return to the Qibla that is dear to the heart of the prophet [sa]. I know you can read. so read it in the Quran. it will not bite you. if you are scared, ask madame to hold your hand and let the boys be watching the door for the thing you are afraid of. Muhammad [sa] used to face Kaaba in Makka before hijr. since salah was ordained in Madina, it was natural to face Jerusalem since jews and christians were brothers in the monotheistic faiths. did you remember that Muhammad [sa] supported the Roman Christians over the Persian pagans in the wars they had, predicting that Rome will be victorious? Read that in the Quran; Chapter name is Rome.

In fact I will go ahead and call your scholars thieves, stealing stories from the bible and adding Gnostic fables to form unbelievable and concocted stories bordering on comedy. grin

let me kill two birds here with 1 stone; the story of Odumegu Ojukwu. Odumegu was an igbo by tribe. a nigerian by nationality. a blackman being an african by skin color. if an igbo man writes about him. and other igbo men write about him. each writing differently, but one saying that biafra is an independent state, even till now. though the others didnt say this. they were quite about the war, including his military carrier and his education. many years later, a ghanaian writes a novel about the very Ojukwu and reminded us of all that Ojukwu himself knew about himself, from family tree, to parents to birth all through his youth, and adulthood and all the way to his death and burial and even the contested will. Do we say because the igbo writers are his tribe men must therefore be correct when we see lies and incomplete facts on the pages? do we reject the masterpiece by the ghanaian just because he is not igbo and his writing was much later?

frosbel, when you claim that islam stole from the bible, you need to know that if it did, it would have stolen the fallacies as well, because it will not be able to discriminate the truth from the lies. the lies were ignored because the truth is from God. if you people think jews are exclusive holder of prophets, i am stating to you that you have lied. the reason for this thread is exactly that. the days of jewish exclusivity ended when Jesus left and left unaccepted. the story of the prophets is a human story. it started from when Adam was conceived to be created from soil and water and later when God allow the spirit soul of man He created to enter the dirt that became man, Adam. the one you must now follow is the another comforter who heard from God and repeated exactly what he heard to man, in order to bring them to the path that is straight. when you reject him, you have rejected Jesus, as well.

The original thief is the one after he misunderstood when Moses said GOd will send a man like himself to the Israelites, knowing that Ishmael is half Abraham and half Arab, He now drawdown His plan. And this plan worked for Him because it has to work to fulfill bible prophecy of *False Prophets*

the bible prophesy stays in the bible and talks about you the jews and christians. if you apply it to the people at that time, you will find paul the self appointed disciple. you must read your history to find your false prophets induced by paul. if you spring this prophesy forward, look at your nation now and around the world; oyedepo, adegboye, chris, etc, etc. america is loaded with them. the path of Ibrahim [as] we follow. we are not jews or christians, the two were after Ibrahim had already passed. nothing Muhammad [sa] said that is not fulfilled. look into your bibles, from the mouth of prophets as discover that Muhammad [sa] meet all qualities of prophet. he fits all the prophesies of prophet. he did not say anything of his own. what he heard from God as the Source, he repeated to man. God put His Words in his mouth. He spoke and it came true. nothing he said is unfulfilled in its time. Jesus had not returned though the bible said he would return before the 12 disciples died. i guarantee that you will die before Jesus returns. By God i would have died too. my prayer is that i do not want to be here when Jesus returns because the anti christ will be here, too. i hope you can read and get the wisdom in what i wrote?

[quote author=Sweetnecta]

if you copy frosbel, following his footsteps, you will definitely say there is no hell for disbelievers.

Nope, I never said there is no hell .

My point is the hell concept in both ISLAM and most of Christianity is more fiction than fact.

The HELL of the bible is the Lake of Fire where the wicked will be thrown into for everlasting destruction after the last judgement,not a torture chamber, something only people like Stalin or Hitler could have dreamed of.

Every religion that comes begets a new one. Two hundred years from now the people that will occupy this world will look at our era and our religions that we fight for and die for and call our age the Extreme Dark Ages. In another two hundred thousand years, nobody will remember what god we fought for, killed for, or died for. Just like we have no idea what god the people who were on this earth 100,000 years ago fought for, killed for or died for.

It is hard to imagine it now, but after the Third World War and after a nuclear war, a new world will emerge with new religions. The old religions left standing will go through reformation. And subtly and gradually, new religions will replace the old. Because it takes hundreds of years for this kind of transformation to be visible, it is hard for those living in that age to notice the change as it happens. We won’t wake up one day and notice that our religion is dead.

The trouble with religion is that for every religion to survive and gain members and fend off competitions, it has to proclaim itself to be better than the others. That my religion is better than yours is like saying that my moon is better than yours. That my God is better than yours is to say that my sun is better than yours.

To be willing to fight for your God- which is to say, kill and die for your God, is like to climb on top of each other to pull the moon until it stands still on your side of the sky. It may sound stupid but it has been done before and continues to be done.

Those who worshipped the Greek gods used to believe that they had the final answer. Those who worshipped Oduduwa used to think that their story of the creation was the ultimate. The highest level of human stupidity is the belief that our religion is the final answer to these original questions- who am I? Where did I come from? Where am I going? Who made me? The arrogance of that assumption has no equal in human folly.

Religions come and go but the earth remains the same. Until we know the definitive truth about the very beginning; and until we answer the original questions without a doubt, religion will remain attractive. But religion will continue to promise us that we find the answers only when we die. Science is the only one trying to find answers to these questions while we are still alive. And science is the only one trying to get to the very beginning and empirically show it to us for the very first time. It may take science one million years to get there. But I am rooting for science not religion.

Sweetnecta: i wonder what happened when the Bible God said to the children of Israel that He is 1 God, through the mouth of Moses and turn around and says He is 3 through the mouth of Jesus, His son, the very Him killed by His creatures, His chosen tribe? the Bible is complete confusion and which ever verse is worthy of rescue, the Quran has. you can see the true God and the commands He laid out for man to follow in the Quran.


if you copy frosbel, following his footsteps, you will definitely say there is no hell for disbelievers. another bogus and morally inferior 'prophet' you said. it reminds me of an another comforter. there must have been one before. can you name a previous one. i can name many previous comforter before the last predicted in the another comforter statement. the another comforter was to hear from God, as a messenger and speak out what he heard from God without adding or deleting from it. He shall speak in the Name of God. In the 114 chapters of Quran, you have 114 verses "in the Name of God, The Merciful, The Beneficent". And i know that you have seen muslims in London. they face the Kaaba, in Makka, ultimately in prayers. God debased the jews when He told the muslims to return to the Qibla that is dear to the heart of the prophet [sa]. I know you can read. so read it in the Quran. it will not bite you. if you are scared, ask madame to hold your hand and let the boys be watching the door for the thing you are afraid of. Muhammad [sa] used to face Kaaba in Makka before hijr. since salah was ordained in Madina, it was natural to face Jerusalem since jews and christians were brothers in the monotheistic faiths. did you remember that Muhammad [sa] supported the Roman Christians over the Persian pagans in the wars they had, predicting that Rome will be victorious? Read that in the Quran; Chapter name is Rome.


let me kill two birds here with 1 stone; the story of Odumegu Ojukwu. Odumegu was an igbo by tribe. a nigerian by nationality. a blackman being an african by skin color. if an igbo man writes about him. and other igbo men write about him. each writing differently, but one saying that biafra is an independent state, even till now. though the others didnt say this. they were quite about the war, including his military carrier and his education. many years later, a ghanaian writes a novel about the very Ojukwu and reminded us of all that Ojukwu himself knew about himself, from family tree, to parents to birth all through his youth, and adulthood and all the way to his death and burial and even the contested will. Do we say because the igbo writers are his tribe men must therefore be correct when we see lies and incomplete facts on the pages? do we reject the masterpiece by the ghanaian just because he is not igbo and his writing was much later?

frosbel, when you claim that islam stole from the bible, you need to know that if it did, it would have stolen the fallacies as well, because it will not be able to discriminate the truth from the lies. the lies were ignored because the truth is from God. if you people think jews are exclusive holder of prophets, i am stating to you that you have lied. the reason for this thread is exactly that. the days of jewish exclusivity ended when Jesus left and left unaccepted. the story of the prophets is a human story. it started from when Adam was conceived to be created from soil and water and later when God allow the spirit soul of man He created to enter the dirt that became man, Adam. the one you must now follow is the another comforter who heard from God and repeated exactly what he heard to man, in order to bring them to the path that is straight. when you reject him, you have rejected Jesus, as well.


the bible prophesy stays in the bible and talks about you the jews and christians. if you apply it to the people at that time, you will find paul the self appointed disciple. you must read your history to find your false prophets induced by paul. if you spring this prophesy forward, look at your nation now and around the world; oyedepo, adegboye, chris, etc, etc. america is loaded with them. the path of Ibrahim [as] we follow. we are not jews or christians, the two were after Ibrahim had already passed. nothing Muhammad [sa] said that is not fulfilled. look into your bibles, from the mouth of prophets as discover that Muhammad [sa] meet all qualities of prophet. he fits all the prophesies of prophet. he did not say anything of his own. what he heard from God as the Source, he repeated to man. God put His Words in his mouth. He spoke and it came true. nothing he said is unfulfilled in its time. Jesus had not returned though the bible said he would return before the 12 disciples died. i guarantee that you will die before Jesus returns. By God i would have died too. my prayer is that i do not want to be here when Jesus returns because the anti christ will be here, too. i hope you can read and get the wisdom in what i wrote?

@sweetnecta, can't you see it just can't work? how can you claim GOD ALMIGHTY, gave Mohammed a vision were you there? You believed this by faith and want us to disbelieve the Bible how intelligent is that? The bible predited lots of false prophets will rise, the strongest one that arises was Mohammed, He uses the fact that Moses said God will send a man just like himself.
But Mohammed has no semilarity as Moses in any way, so how is He HIM that was supposed to come?

Jesus made it clear that No one can access His father but through hIm. Isn't this plain enough for Muslims. Just to mention few matched semilarity between Moses and Jesus.
We read in the Exodus 1:22 when an evil king tried to kill Moses as a baby. And that of Jesus in Matthew 2:16, King Herod tried to kill baby Jesus. I don't need to start up listing them, there are so many. Moses body was taken to heaven, also Jesus body. They were both sent to Egype to preserved thier lives ( Exodus 2:3-4) (Matthew 2:13-15). They both saved a woman at a well (Exodus 2:15-19) (John chapter 4). MOHAMMED on the other hand, molest women. He is a true "A MONSTER OF HISTORY". It is as clear as night and day.

How can a human being with reasonable common sense would believe that Jesus Christ and Mohammad were both ISLAM prophets sent by the same God.
One preached compassion,love your enemies and forgivness,the other absolute disgrace.

sweetnecta: if you copy frosbel, following his footsteps, you will definitely say there is no hell for disbelievers.

Point of correction, i don't copy anyone, if you have been following frosbel's post, you will see that we don't agree in everything.
It's crazy how you guys come to conclude Islam has been the relegion of all time prophet, yet God never revealed this to all prophet but only Mohammed?

Re: Tell Me The Religion Of Adam, Etc, The Religion Of Jesus. by plappville(f): 7:56am

Sweetnecta: judaism is a religion made up by men and was not what was revealed to any prophet [as]. no prophet worshiped God by it, just like no prophet worshiped God by christianity. jew is an ethnic group. and they developed religious identity of their own based on their heritage.

God said to Moses make prayer of standing, bowing and prostration of face in My remembrance. Jesus demonstrated this prayer was relevant in his time and it is relevant now because Muhammmad [sa] the prophet of our time was commanded to do the same and tell believers to do it.
Hindus believe in One God. yet they worship through many gods. same way the children of Israel by thie golden calf. unless you will say the golden calf is their yahweh?


Who commanded Mohammed'?

God.

Whats you proof?

The Quran. You will find many verses where in God says "oh, Prophet", oh Messenger. etc. I send you as a mercy for all man. The lips of Jesus, according to the Bible says another comforter. read the quality of his hearing and repeating and adding or removing nothing from what God says. While the bible says Jesus does things by himself, as God and son of God [wonder shall never cease in confused minds], Muhammad [sa] heard as a messenger and simply delivered the message.

How many of Mohammed kind have come and go and they did have followers till date even if their numbers are not large.

you are truly a french girl. Paul the founder of christianity comes to mind. and you are a christian. no? omoge france.

The only reason Islam Is wide spread is because Mohammed used force to convert the while of Arabic nations. Islam Do not have one God you can go ahead and deceive ignorants. You are not different from the Hindus in this area!!

i do not bow to any idol. my God has a proper name; Allah. you the accuser will have to provide the evidence of your statement. you are like the hindu because you have father God, son god and ghost god. you ask me to provide evidence. there you have mine. i a waiting for yours. none of these gods i listed for you you will deny. if you say my God is not Allah, Alone, i will say you no talk truth.

by plappville(f): 8:20am
In the Old Testament, near Israel's beginnings, worship of a false god called Baal began, and consisted of worshiping the heavenly bodies, of which the moon is the largest in the sky. The biblical and historical evidence shows that the Moabites worshiped Baal. The pre-Islamic sources showed that the Meccans took over the idol *Hubal* from the Moabites and that Allah and Hubal are actually identical. Thus, whether the Mecans are Ishmaelites or not, the evidence is still strong and sufficient to conclude that Muhammad's Allah is actually Hubal, i.e., the Baal of the Moabites and thus not the God of the Bible. Mohammad incorporated the characteristics and names of various other gods into his new monotheistic msg about Allah, but he apparently started the construction of Allah with Hubal, the chief god of the Meccans. How different Is Islam and Hindus ?

it is good that you know that the israelites worshiped moon. i will say to you that they worshiped cow too. each time they do this idolatry, there is a prophet to correct them. Moses corrected the israelites about cow worship is enough evidence. i almost can tell you that if that cow of the israelites was not "yahweh" in their minds, it was the way to Yahweh. i see Jesus as the christians group replacement of the cow. Muhammad [sa] like Moses preached and got the victory over the disbelievers, the idolaters. and to say that Allah is identical to hubal is like saying paradise is identical to hell, each being a destination. Allah is Creator. hubal is created by man. in all my years on earth, no one has shown me Allah while figuring of Jesus is common on the chests of christians. who is the idolater, but you plappville.

The pre-Islam pagan Arabs worshipped the Moon-god allah by praying toward Mecca several times a day, making a pilgrimage to Mecca, running around the temple of the Moon-god called the Kabah, kissing the black stone, killing an animal in sacrifice to the Moon-god, throwing stones at the devil, fasting for the month which begins and ends with the crescent moon; giving alms to the poor, etc.

minus idolatry, if a person throws stones at the devil, we can say he is a devil worshiper. yet devil is who induces a person to be an idolater. the evidence that Islam of Muhammad eradicated idolatry is very evident today among muslims. i will not allow even a chrsitian to pray to me and say in the name of Jesus. and when we say that moon god statue was found. it was found within the locale of the children of israel, the true idol worshipers like you and the hindu, not like us in Islam.

I have nit been to Mecca, but have seen recent months news shows that shows modern day Muslims practice these very rituals.

except that we do get na.ked, clap and or whistle. there is no idol in front of us or in our community. and we do not have to touch or kiss the black stone. and the way you are thinking, your feet may never touch Makka because you will not accept islam. Makka is meant for muslims. no idolaters shall enter it, InshaAllah.

Muslims are worshiping the same false god that people ve been worshiping since early times as far back as Israel's beginnings.

when did israel begin? people lived before israel. islam has nothing to do with israel. the beat of the children of israel is idolatry. Islam is same faith of Ibrahim [sa] and those believers before and after him. It is a direct faith connecting to God without intermediary. we have the same faith as Adam [as] and his speech of seeking forgiveness is in the Quran. you people of disbelief dont have it. search you books. you will not find it except punishment of innocent souls.

Muslims will say you don’t need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved! Muslims will admit that Jesus was a true prophet, but deny that He was the Messiah,

Savior is God Himself. from your book, Jesus is not the Savior. you know it and i know it. heck. he couldnt save himself from his own people. we in islam belief in Jesus as a prophet of God and a messiah of the children of israel being their last exclusive prophet [as]. evidently, you people dont even know your own book.

the Son of God, and also deny that He died on the cross and rose again. Does that make sense? Absolutely not!

you ignorant soul it makes sense. there is no need for god to have any son. the same reason that he does not have any parents. God is unlike humans. the One Who created is enough as Savior. the thought of dying on the cross is useless since many christians according to the bible will end up in hell and will also be rejected by Jesus in his return, even then when he said that he will return during the lives of his 12 disciples. he already knew that before they all died, there will be people to come to twist their arms into disbelief; paul and his crew were the arm twister. and he has succeeded in turning you against faith in God, the reason you have 3 Gods, call them all 1. this is the most illogical and the very absolute of the very nonsense.

Islam belief cannot be truth becis Christ Himself said He was the Messiah, and said He was the Son of God!

you said Jesus is the very son of God. at the same time forgetting that the lie started from the OT with sons of God discovery of pretty girls who are the daughters of men. they just had to come down to get them pregnant. God has no grandsons, so your story and plot to confuse true believing souls will not work.

i am sure Jesus didnt come down with his brothers to pillage the daughters of men to become mothers; hybrid of man and God? plappville, you are on your own, woman.

John 4:26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

and the 3 other gospels forgot to include this very important point. you will notice therefore John was lying when he penned this very verse.

John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? 36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? 37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.

fraudster. he said son of God and the man asked by saying lord. it shows that lord means nothing but knowledgeable person among the children of israel, just like they considered themselves all as sons of God. even God themselves. if i say son, how can anyone say lord, except that a storyline of deception has developed?

That would make Him a false prophet according to the Muslim beliefs! How twisted is that? But it’s a lie believed by one and a half billion people. We absolutely must believe that Jesus Christ is God manifest in the flesh, was crucified for our sins and rose again. This is the gospel!

believe in your gospels. there are 4 of them, one more than the number of your Gods. you have no evidence except jumping to conclusions. sane mind will not do that in anything except in religion. if there is no logical evidence, it does not exist. why will the Creator suddenly becomes a creature or raise a son like the creatures considering that God does nothing that creatures do?

John 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

everyone shall die. John and his lies. is John not dead already in his sins? st john, please raise your hand if you are still alive? i am certain he is dead and Jesus has not returned, either.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

liar. god does not have any child. and your bible tell you Jesus will tell you tat he does not know you. now swallow that bitter truth.

Acts 4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

if the only human savior of man comes in the middle of human generations, one will ask if he is truly the savior of man, if we consider the scores of human generations that have perished.

Adam and Eve and many of their children, males and females and generations after them, including Noah and those people who followed him, Abraham, etc, etc, etc all the way to John and his father Zachariah [as] were saved and not destined to hell among those who lived before Jesus ever became the "savior of all". before Jesus and after him, we had people like pharaoh, etc and hitler. i wonder what 'savior' did in the two groups? Jesus was sent to the children of Israel. infact those of them who were lost. no nigerian is under that group. and i mean it with the knowledge of the igbos who say they are jews [unless they considered themselves as lost children and Jesus didnt find them, even so]. now tell me how is act 4;12 doing since you christians will be rejected by the same Jesus you are hanging your hats on?

Ther is no salvation in any other name but Jesus! Not Mohammed, not Buddha; no other name no never.

Jesus needs to save himself first, if we look into the bibles. i will not need a weak entity to save me. God is Sufficient.

@plappvlle

@sweetnecta, can't you see it just can't work? how can you claim GOD ALMIGHTY, gave Mohammed a vision were you there?

yes. i was there. proof is in the Quran. i am one of the children of Adam who took an oath that God is my lord, creator to be worshiped. i knew that prophet will on earth to guide me. The Book revealed to Muhammad [sa] is the best talking about God as the Only One to worship. so much so that The name of That very God is provided; Allah.

You believed this by faith and want us to disbelieve the Bible how intelligent is that?

Quran is alive while others are dead, corrupted. you do not have a uniform book.

The bible predited lots of false prophets will rise, the strongest one that arises was Mohammed, He uses the fact that Moses said God will send a man just like himself.

ho do you know false prophets? from the bible, false prophets will say thing and will not be true because God did not send them. Muhammad [sa] said what is true because they come to pass in their times. Jesus said there is a comforter like before that will come. who was the former comforter before the another that Jesus predicted? the another comforter will speak in the Name of God. The Quran is just that type of book and no other book speaks in this manner. The comforter will hear from God and he will repeat it to man. God will put His Words in his mouth. Muhammad [sa] did not speak of himself except what God commanded him, says the Quran, the Word of God. God says He will protect the Quran from any corruption. there you have it. yet follow what you will. in time you will know that Jesus was a prophet, not son of God. the jews along with you will know that Jesus was a prophet, too, though the denied him [as].

But Mohammed has no semilarity as Moses in any way, so how is He HIM that was supposed to come?

i was born in nigeria and several men born in america are similar to me in look. i was like a twin to a very famous american an that shows similarity. i also look like my mother. but i am not similar to her because what makes me me, universally has something to do with my gender. Muhammad [sa] Moses and the rest of the prophet [as] of God is not because of their tribes but their mission from God. now tell me how is he different from other prophets [as], or do you think that only children of israel were prophets of God? what happened to Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob who were not children of Israel? Have you heard of Saleh, Hud and Shuaib and Lot who are not children of Abraham, but from children of Noah in turn children of father Adam [as]?

Jesus made it clear that No one can access His father but through hIm. Isn't this plain enough for Muslims. Just to mention few matched semilarity between Moses and Jesus.

lies since Adam, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Moses, Aaron etc all accessed God without Jesus.

We read in the Exodus 1:22 when an evil king tried to kill Moses as a baby. And that of Jesus in Matthew 2:16, King Herod tried to kill baby Jesus. I don't need to start up listing them, there are so many.

Moses was mere human. we can understand that he had enemy. God a baby and human wants to kill him? this is the most ridiculous thing.

Moses body was taken to heaven, also Jesus body.

did Moses die or he was alive?

They were both sent to Egype to preserved thier lives ( Exodus 2:3-4) (Matthew 2:13-15).

te God that is running away is no God. truly he was no God.

They both saved a woman at a well (Exodus 2:15-19) (John chapter 4). MOHAMMED on the other hand, molest women. He is a true "A MONSTER OF HISTORY". It is as clear as night and day.

the sons of God came to earth to snatch the daughters of men for themselves. lies. including you saying Jesus is son of God. what purpose is a son when such a son was not even preserved? physician save thyself. it is Order of God to Muhammad [sa] that has preserved me from unfettered se.xually that has no boundary. Alhamdulillah. so your statement is a lie like the others.

How can a human being with reasonable common sense would believe that Jesus Christ and Mohammad were both ISLAM prophets sent by the same God.
[b]One preached compassion,love your enemies and forgiveness,[/b]the other absolute disgrace.

after i abuse you and you are taking your pound of flesh, it is easy for me to say i forgive you. true forgiveness comes when i am the one with upper hand. forgiveness of the weak is useless and its seen as cop out to and by the powerful. i purchased sword to fight. but it will be suicidal to want to fight when many swords are pointed against me. no wonder the disciples all ran away. i am sure each of you will run away like your religious leaders of old.

sweetnecta: if you copy frosbel, following his footsteps, you will definitely say there is no hell for disbelievers.


[b]Point of correction, i don't copy anyone, if you have been following frosbel's post, you will see that we don't agree in everything.
It's crazy how you guys come to conclude Islam has been the relegion of all time prophet, yet God never revealed this to all prophet but only Mohammed?

Islam is submission to God. Every prophet did just that. Jesus was not a christian and you being a christian rejected his tribe and the islamic religion he worshiped by.

F0028,
It was the spambot that hid your post. I have untagged it and you should be fine now. Thanks for bringing to our attention. Cheers.

by onetrack: 9:01am

Sweetnecta: the wozzie logicboy03 is asking question as if he is innocent. werent you the person who brought this on yourself when you attacked islam and asked that i opened a thread to talk about it?

is there any other way? Moses became a prophet at the burning bush. was anyone there to witness it, but that we believed Moses was honest? Muhammad [sa] was amin [the truthful]. so what disqualifies Muhammad [sa] from being a prophet and what qualifies Moses as prophet and who can absolutely say a person is a prophet of God, except God Himself? if i use the bible to qualify a prophet, in ot and nt, whatever qualifies a person as prophet, Muhammad [sa] fits each to a t.


I'm afraid that no prophet has ever proven themselves, at least to people who consider themselves rationalists and empiricists. Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad were not prophets. I'm not just picking on Muhammad here, I don't believe in any prophet or religion.

your point is understood since there is no source of guidance for you. i wonder what truth is and how close are you to it, since you do thinks instinctively like a lion that will kill more than its needs?

begging the question when i answered the opinion of proving a prophet as a prophet by all possible evidences. nothing Muhammad [sa] said that has not came to pass in the exact time, exactly as he said it will happen. God spoke through Muhammad in a revelation called Al Quran. what no one fulfills in the Bible, Muhammad [sa] fulfilled it: he shall not speak of his own but what he hears from God he shall repeat. . .


I'm not aware of even a single precise, specific prediction that Muhammad made that has come to pass. Or, rather, I can make predictions also: in the coming years there will be wars, diseases, intimate immorality, jealousy, and greed. If this comes true then will you accept me as a prophet?

Surah Rome. Surah Maun. read both. Quran says Rome will defeat Persia in their second battle. Quran says AbuLahab will never become muslim. Both happend. Hadith; Muslim will be large but their faith level will be low like the foam on the surface of the ocean, driven by waves. The enemies will call on each other/one another against it. Today christians supports jews, support hindus and nations make alliances against muslims and rise against us.

i am sure that you will not apply the same rules to others you call prophets. heck. who are you anyway as if you are important? no. not at all. prophet of God does not have to be popular with disbelievers. heck. you are a disbeliever.


I don't call anyone a prophet; and yes, I am certainly a disbeliever.

you will not be the first. so whats new?

i dont know who bahai and baha'ullah are. Allah answers them in the same Quran. chapter 33 where Muhammad is stated as the last/seal of prophets. no prophet will come after him. he also emphasized that in his sunan. you and baha and baha'ullah are liars.


If you use the same standard of evidence for Baha'ullah as you do for Muhammad, then both of them should be called liars, or both are prophets.

you need a really good thinking cap. i said that Quran says Muhammad [sa] is the last/seal of prophets. which means anyone that comes after him is a fraud. read the bold above.

Jesus was a prophet [as]. you better not live a life of deceit. someday you will grow up and see how feeble you are. i give you 60 years.


Fine, call Jesus a prophet, just as long as you realize that this is purely a matter of faith, which is defined as 'belief in the absence of evidence'. But you are correct on one thing: I would be living a life of deceit if I claimed that I believed in Jesus or Muhammad, because I don't. Can you show me that Muhammad was not being deceitful? Can you prove that he was not, deep in his heart, an atheist? shocked

In 60 years I will be in a much less organized state of existence (i.e. dead). I am not a young man.

my faith is solid in what God revealed and specifically, i hold firmly to the last revelation, clearing out the misconceptions that were before its revelation. and in 60 years from now, you will see what you will see. God is always in charge. Just dont die in this ignorance of arrogance.

@Logicboy03: you are really playing the role of boy, boy. men, even women are talking you the boy who called for the conversation is no where to be found. empty suit you are.

@all: i will not respond, until the boy who asked for this thread enters the conversation.

As usual....bkabkablablabla.....

sweetnectar: Muhammad [sa] like Moses preached and got the victory over the disbelievers, the idolaters. and to say that Allah is identical to hubal is like saying paradise is identical to hell, each being a destination. Allah is Creator. hubal is created by man.

Muhammed did not preach He imposed his three godess to the Arabes. This Is what we see till date. Islam will use force to try to make itself the world religion. See Nigeria, Boko are killing, is it by force? Did Jesus kill those who rejected Him? No, you can't even prove anything. Just beating around the bush using urself for examples hahaha...you are wast of time. The bible you accused is thesame bible that provided the prophet you forcefully want to use to validate your falsehood. No God talk to Muhammad. But Satan, the Hadith has alot to prove. Leave matter ma broda in ADam and Eve Jare....hahaha

^^^ see nigeria. adegboye is slapping everything. telling his sister to convert to disbelief [3 gods of father son and holy ghost].
see nigeria. i am a nigerian muslim. here you are talking. boko haraam is haraam.

woman, you no sey you should not be talking according to paul. abi you forget?

read my story of illustration of ojukwu. i now you be post nigerian civil war. heck. nigeria is still nigeria.

you can write the history of nigeria and dont mention ojukwu. if you do, we already agree that you have written a corrupted history.

you dont have to be an igbo or even a nigerian to pen the truth of the history of nigeria, to illustrate the history of africa. if you omit ojukwu's military record, we already know a gambian who writes about nigeria and mention the carrier of ojukwu including his campaign in america is a better read than yours.

hahahahahaha. woman. go get yourself a baguette. you deserve it. eat some jarlsberg cheese, too.

Manmustwac, Jesoul,
thanks for your time .

Sweetnecta:

Surah Rome. Surah Maun. read both. Quran says Rome will defeat Persia in their second battle. Quran says AbuLahab will never become muslim. Both happend. Hadith; Muslim will be large but their faith level will be low like the foam on the surface of the ocean, driven by waves. The enemies will call on each other/one another against it. Today christians supports jews, support hindus and nations make alliances against muslims and rise against us.

my faith is solid in what God revealed and specifically, i hold firmly to the last revelation, clearing out the misconceptions that were before its revelation. and in 60 years from now, you will see what you will see. God is always in charge. Just dont die in this ignorance of arrogance.

Two major criticisms of the 'prediction' of Persia's defeat in a battle:

1) given that this battle took place while Muhammad was still alive and before the Quran was written down, we have no idea if he didn't actually 'predict' the outcome after he already knew about it.
2) the Persian and the Roman Empires had been battling for CENTURIES, going back and forth, winning one battle, losing another. Predicting victory by one side or the other in a battle would be like predicting a coin toss--50/50 chance of getting it right. Not very impressive.

Concerning the conversion of Abulahab: again, 50/50 chance of getting it right: does he convert or not?

The rest of the predictions are just a matter of perception and timing--these are the kind of things that happen all the time anyway (lack of faith, shifting alliances, etc.) No big deal.

Muhammad predicted that Constantinople would fall to the Muslims at the very end of the world, around the time of the Dajjal and Jesus' return. Constantinople fell to the Muslims in 1453 AD and the world still hasn't seen the end times. And the Dajjal and Jesus are nowhere to be seen....so that counts as a big fail.

Sweetnecta:

Jesus was a prophet [as]. you better not live a life of deceit. someday you will grow up and see how feeble you are. i give you 60 years.

Ah, I really think I should follow. You occasionally drop pure gems like this