Jhn 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
Is this a time of bodily worship we can see in the book of revelations that there is no physical temple in the new jerusalem?

Jhn 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Then what about the christians where do they stand?

Does being a jeudo christian reconcile this issue as we can see in the oriental orthodox (african christianity), or does one just ignore the jewish issue altogether?

These thoughts

1. a jew a descendant of abraham Ham+shem

2. a culture a way of life

I belive this way of life was made available to the whole world through christ,the sermon on the mount confirms this because prophetically he was talking to us all

interesting





Peace love and Joy.

looks like this is a sensitive topic

Is there no one willing enough to take the bait?

MostHigh: looks like this is a sensitive topic

Is there no one willing enough to take the bait?

Dont get ahead of yourself.This your write up makes little sense which explains the low traffic.

Are you evangelizing for Judaism or what?

I personally am willing to learn more about the bible but all you've written so far does not hold any promise in this regard.

Dear brother,pls do more.peradventure you might enlighten us

God bless you

Sorry if I didnt come across clear enough let me try again.

1. If christ is a jew and lived the life of a jew as we see in the scriptures and you are a christian are you really on the same path as the master?
2. How do you reconcile the contradictions between the way of life of the master and his followers today?
3. correct me if I am wrong but the sermon on the mount though meant for all true belivers was given to a predominantly jewish audience hence the constant reference to the books of torah with great emphasis on deutronomy (the reminding of the LAW)

If a jewish man is talking to a jewish people about a jewish way of life then how does christianity fit in if prophetically in the Kingdom age we will be living the same way of life?

Peace,love and joy!!!

MostHigh:
Jhn 4:22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Then what about the christians where do they stand?

I don't really get your point well. If you're saying we Gentiles have no part in salvation ,then you're wrong. The bible says ,to the Jews first and also to the Gentiles.
[color=][/color]
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ:for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Jesus had us in mind

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female:for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

1. With reference to romans 1:16 why the jew first why not the gentile first and why the distinction between jew first and then gentile

after is a gentile not an unbeliver?

Does a gentile not need to be a believer to obtain salvation

2. john 10:16 if isreal reborn is to be one nation under God what is the constitution of this nation?

is it based on jewish law or christian law kind of tricky isnt it?

3. if there is neither male or female as well it looks like we have to analyze in what context this statement was made

I noticed you have quoted well but you have not qouted from the words of yashua himself strange.... but typical.

There are many references to his views on the jews and salvation.

King.. kingdom... constitution

Peace love and joy!!!

MostHigh:
I noticed you have quoted well but you have not qouted from the words of yashua himself strange.... but typical.
!!

John 10:15 is from the mouth of yeshiva

John 10:16
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


The other sheep represent Gentiles

If he is bringing them into his flock does the flock now turn completely gentile or jew or maybe a mixture of both pls just another simple question.

As I remember corretly the first psalm indicates that there are only 2 men 2 ways and 2 destinies there is no middle ground with God.

Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth

Which would you rather be jew or gentile or a mixture of both (christian possibly)

Also how do you explain the reference to JEWS in the verse below

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

Peace Love And joy!!!

MostHigh: If he is bringing them into his flock does the flock now turn completely gentile or jew or maybe a mixture of both pls just another simple question.

Which would you rather be jew or gentile or a mixture of both (christian possibly)

In christ there's no Jew nor gentile

Also how do you explain the reference to JEWS in the verse below

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and [I know] the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but [are] the synagogue of Satan.

Peace Love And joy!!!

The reference to Jew in that passage has to do with believers or Christians. You know we have natural Jews after the flesh and we also have spiritual Jews (the church)

Romans 2:28-29
For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

So with reference to the passage , it's talking about spiritual Jews . (The church) or believers . The MESSAGE translation renders it more perfectly.

Revelation 3:9
"And watch as I take those who call themselves true believers but are nothing of the kind, pretenders whose true membership is in the club of Satan-- watch as I strip off their pretensions and they're forced to acknowledge it's you that I've loved.

Joagbaje your response is really appreciated but..

If you were to open up any book of definitions (dictionary) for example the definition for jew and christian would be completely different wether carnal or spiritual.

And thier ways of life completely different.

you cannot change a jew to a christian by just wishing it

what do you think?

Also a true beliver in prophet mohammed would try as much as possible to live exactly as prophet mohammed did hence my reference to way of life (spirituality).

Mat 15:7 [Ye] hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
Mat 15:8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with [their] lips; but their heart is far from me.
Mat 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men.


Peace love and joy!!!!

Are you a Muslim ?

Joagbaje we are here breaking bread that is all that matters.

Why must you objectify me as anything?

Will putting a label on me make you better understand the words spoken?

I only referenced The prohpet Mohammed to try and show another parallel where the relashionship between master and desciple is personal, in all religions the desciple is expected to copy the masters actions on point.

I could have referenced Buddah as well.

My words have been the the words of christ from the moment we began breaking bread so at least you have and idea who I serve

Interestingly enough you seem more like a desciple of paul from all words spoken


Peace love and joy!!!

I only asked the question based on certain principle. I can discuss God with any person. But the topic will differ. I shouldn't discuss deep spiritual matters for example with someone who is not a christian.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God:for they are foolishness unto him:neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

This is my reason not because I want to labell someone by his faith or religion but because he may not understand it. He may even get offended ,so for such I will primarily discus salvation.

Joagbaje

yashua son of joseph has already convicted you by saying salvation is of the jews pls note

Paul performed the highest jewish rites (vow of the nazerite) just like yashua his master and john also who practiced ritual purification by water, which is normally performed at the completion of the vow.

Joagbaje Paul was not a christian he was a fully practicing jew.

Act 18:18 ¶ And Paul [after this] tarried [there] yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having (shorn) [his] head in Cenchrea: for he had a (VOW).

Here also he is accused as being a ringleader of the nazarites because of his afilliation with the other elders in council. so at a glance you can see that they were not of the order of levi
Act 24:5 For we have found this man [a] pestilent [fellow], and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes:

But of the order of Melchizedek (Nazerite order)


You say paul says no need for the Law how come then he is fufilling the highest vow in all of jewish tradition?

paul says do as I do from you qoutation of 1 chor are you doing as paul is doing, talk less of even yashua son of joseph

everybody is focusing on he pointing finger and not where the finger is pointing, I think that was Ghandi not sure.....


Peace love and joy!!!

MostHigh: Joagbaje


Joagbaje Paul was not a christian he was a fully practicing jew.

Act 18:18 ¶ And Paul [after this] tarried [there] yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having (shorn) [his] head in Cenchrea: for he had a (VOW). .

He only did it as guise to win the Jews by identifying with them. It's was a compromise actually.

1 Corinthians 9:20-22
And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak:I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Of course he was proud of his Jewish heritage . He was a scholar and a Pharisee . But he counted all his achievement in the Jewish tradition bulshit.

Philippians 3:5-8
Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
. . . But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord:for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

You should be happy the jews didn't accept christ.cos if they did u probably wont be saved now.yOu will see christ before them. Cos the church will be gone before tribulation. But they will be here n they will suffer tribulation n b judged by their works in the law.

Joagbaje

Guise: An external form, appearance, or manner of presentation, typically concealing the true nature of something.

So in other words you are saying paul was a hypocryte and and your intrepretation of 1 chor 9 in the context you are presenting
suggests that he was schtzophrenic and had mutiple personalities in other words a madman.

So because paul dey live inside gentile home he wont observe the sabbath or obey the holy instructions in the bible he will become a pagan to win them to christ?


On the contrary i think he would continue his way of life but would not condemn them for not doing the same remember he said (do as i do).

It is obviouse from all his teachings that condemnation was not his agenda but rather Hope that ultimately through the love of christ they would come to the same conclusion and live the way of the jew as well.


joagbaje as you well know all churches have thier own rules and regulations in other words LAW!Issiah called it the doctrines of men!!! so Imagine this scenario

Pastor: Joagbaje why didnt you come for the fire catch them deliverance service on thursday?

Joagbaje: sorry pastor i was indisposed

Pastor: you know you have to observe this programm punctually to the end, most especially since you are an elder in the church

Also i noticed you have not paid your thithes for some time now you know what the bible says about tith offering

Joagbaje: Yes pastor i know i will make restitution as soon as i can.


What has just happened here is that the Pharasee (pastor) has layed a heavy burden on the shoulders of one of his flock forgeting the first works (mercy,peace love,justice...) and using the law as a tool to convict in other words a peversion of the law.

This is what paul was fighting against Joagbaje. a pervertion of the law and not the law itself.

Peace love and joy!!!

Deleted

All Hail Joagbaje the wise!!!


Peace love and Joy!!

Sorry about my earlier response. I misunderstood your post. I didn't read it well . I thought you were making mockery.

I'm out for intelligent and biblical discussion. I'm really surprised that you are not yet convinced by the scriptures I quoted. I really want to know your point and clear perspective on this matter

MostHigh: All Hail Joagbaje the wise!!!


Peace love and Joy!!

my friend, what is your bone?

Can you state it in few words?

The kingdom of heaven which is christ's kingdom that we are all praying to see, is jewish in character and constitution this is expressly declared in all of scripture.

If that kingdom will be governed by old testament LAWS as we have confirmed by scipture at what point do we make the transition?

Will this transition be on a personal or national level?

Like one of The brethren asked me on another posting (why not wait until the kingdom come before you start living like that?)

Is this the right answer?

I hope it is clearer now



Peace love and joy

@ Poster,

I really do hope you asked these question to know and not to create an argument. i will explain the passage to you as much as i can and i pray the Spirit of God will give you understanding.

The woman having discovered that Jesus knew all about her private life changed the topic and bring up a popular theological issue(isnt that true of many of us?)- the correct place to worship. but her question was a smoke screen to keep Jesus away from her deepest need. Jesus directed the conversion to a much more important point: the location of worhip is not nearly so important as the attitude of the worshipers. "...when the true worshipers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth..." John 4: 23.

[b][/b]when Jesus said "salvation is of the Jews" he meant that only through the Jewish Messiah would the World find Salvation. God promised that through the Jewish race the whole earth would be blessed Gen 12:3. the old testament prophets called the Jews to be a light to the other nations of the world, bringing them to a knowledge of God and they predicted the Messiahs' coming. the woman at the well knew of these passages and was expecting the Messiah but she didnt realise she was talking to Him!

Salvations to the whole world through Jesus and Jesus only is further confirmed by the Spirit of God through Simon in Luku 2:28 - 32" Then took he him up in his arms and blessed God and said Lord, now lettest thou thy servant depart in peace according to thy word for mine eyes have seen thy salvaion, which thou hast prepared before the face of all people; A light to lighen the Gentiles and the glory of thy people Isreal"

"God is Spirit" John 4:24 simply means He is not a physical being limited to one place. He is present everywhere and He can be worshiped anywhere and at any time. it is not where we worship that counts but how we worship.

The Jews at Rome were having the same doubts you are having now and Paul through the Spirit of God expained to them that Jews and Gentiles are the same before God. "What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved that both jews and gentiles, that they are all under sin" Rom 3: 9. "Is He God of the Jews only, is He not also of the Gentiles? yes,of the Gentiles also". Rom 3:29.

Thank you Brethren, but you still have not answerd the question.

What is the constitution of the future earthly davidic kingdom? in other words what will be the system of governance in this kingdom

will it be Democracy, communism, facism, ......

peace love and joy!!

Jesus will reign in David throne for a thousand years. After that comes the great battle of GOG and msggog

MostHigh: Joagbaje

Guise: An external form, appearance, or manner of presentation, typically concealing the true nature of something.
So in other words you are saying paul was a hypocryte and and your intrepretation of 1 chor 9 in the context you are presenting
suggests that he was schtzophrenic and had mutiple personalities in other words a madman.

Haba! Take it easy. I didn't blow all these grammar. The scriptures I quoted explains itself. He identified with them just to give impression he wasn't against them.

So because paul dey live inside gentile home he wont observe the sabbath or obey the holy instructions in the bible he will become a pagan to win them to christ?

Jesus didn't observe it either . But paul didnt criticism those who do .


Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another:another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

On the contrary i think he would continue his way of life but would not condemn them for not doing the same remember he said (do as i do).

Do as I do is not applicable here. Paul disobeyed and compromised . He had personal burden for salvation of Israel. But God sent him rather to the gentile but paul still smuggled his way to the Jews . So he had to compromise because grace for such assignment was not with him. If God send you ,he will give you grace for the job.

Joagbaje

1. There is no compromise (middle ground) in the kingdom of heaven, 2 men 2 ways 2 destinies psalm 1

2. would you compromise you strong personal views just to achieve some good?

3. you say Jesus will reign in David throne for a thousand years. is this a literal earthly throne (kingdom)? just like the other monarchies of the world.


Peace love and joy!!

Joagbaje!!!

The holy spirit cannot contradict but only agree

It was Yeshua's custom or practice to attend the synagogue services on the Sabbath day, as the four gospels point out.

Mark 1:21, "they went into Capernaum; and (straightway!!) on the SABBATH DAY he entered into the synagogue

Yeshua preached in the synagogues in towns throughout Galilee -- see Mark 1:38-39. always on the sabbath

was this a guise also as you have implied before regarding pauls actions?

was he just pretending to observe so he could have access to them on the rest day?

Or was he fufilling all as was declared in math 5:17?

I know Yashua as a torah loving jew observing the law to the letter.

Jhn 8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? Joagbaje last time I checked SIN was a contravening of the LAW so from the above verse it is clear that none of the pastors could condemn him of contravening the LAW.

He obeyed the law to the letter for our salvation that we might do as he did also. showing us by his actions that self sacrifice was the greatest gift any man could give his brethren

What are you prepared to do?

Surely Yashua cannot be the lawless man you are making him out to be 2 thess 2.

why do you keep on calling yashua a pretender, did he not compell you to do as I do.

why would one need to pretend to win souls?

Do you light a candle and put it under a bucket?


Some time later Yeshua and his disciples went through the cornfields on the Sabbath day (Mark 2:23) and were accused by the Pharisees of breaking the Sabbath by plucking ears of corn to eat.

Is plucking corn to eat a comercial endevour? the pastors were completely off point here, but as usual yashua still takes the time to teach them the deeper principles.


In reply, Yeshua showed the Pharisees how to observe the Sabbath by saying: " The sabbath was MADE FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath: Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath" (Mark 2:27-28).

Joagbaje where in the above statement did yashua say not to observe the sabbath?

He only convicts you the more by saying IT WAS MADE FOR A PURPOSE!!

For MAN!!

Does The sabbath BEING MADE FOR MAN MEAN MAN SHOULD DO AWAY WITH THE SABBATH? And probably create his own rest day.

Yashau does not disregard the sabbath as you claim he only lays more emphasis on it by saying he is lord of it.He also validates it by obeying it

Peace love and joy!!!

MostHigh: Joagbaje

1. There is no compromise (middle ground) in the kingdom of heaven, 2 men 2 ways 2 destinies psalm 1

Peter denied Jesus ,yet he is in the kingdom

Jesus compromised his revelation by condescending to the carnality of the desciples. About Lazarus death .

John 11:11-14
These things said he:and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. Howbeit Jesus spake of his death:but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

Paul had to communicate in the flesh with churches like Corinthians .He couldn't use spiritual language, he had to speak carnaly

3. you say Jesus will reign in David throne for a thousand years. is this a literal earthly throne (kingdom)? just like the other monarchies of the world.

Peace love and joy!!

Yes jeus will rule literarily

Good

So what will be the system of governance?

peace love and joy!!!

MostHigh: Joagbaje!!!

The holy spirit cannot contradict but only agree

It was Yeshua's custom or practice to attend the synagogue services on the Sabbath day, as the four gospels point out.

Mark 1:21, "they went into Capernaum; and (straightway!!) on the SABBATH DAY he entered into the synagogue

Yeshua preached in the synagogues in towns throughout Galilee -- see Mark 1:38-39. always on the sabbath

He went to where the people were so as to minister to them. Not because he was observing sabbath. The purpose of sabbath was not worship. The purpose of sabbath was not to do any work. But Jesus broke that law. He worked on sabbath day. Healed on sabbath day, hhis disciples harvested corn on sabbath day. When he was confronted he justified his action.

Mark 2:27
. . .And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

[quote]was this a guise also as you have implied before regarding pauls actions?[

was he just pretending to observe so he could have access to them on the rest day?

Or was he fufilling all as was declared in math 5:17?

Try read my previous post and check out the scriptures I quoted . You may comment on those scriptures .