Christians Muslims Atheists Throw Me Your Questions/doubts About Paganism/ATR's


BRING IT ON!

...

Is paganism responsible for all the current money and power ritual murders that take place?

Pygru: Why are pagans unreasonable
^^
This post refused to hide.

explain yourself.

We Pagans are rational, not unreasonable. you can say our rationalism leads to our being unreasonable.

The Pagan ideology is a set way that has existed for millenia and for a purpose. christianity , judaism and islam started out as reformist movement to stray away from the generally accepted natural path of Paganism. and now the world regrets their creations. so many wars , genocides , holocaust, etc., have been comitted because they refused to listen to us Pagans and now they suffer and have to pay the price for straying away from the path.

Conclusion : man is never satisfied with what he/she has. in the end we come back full circle.

Atheist:-D:
Is paganism responsible for all the current money and power ritual murders that take place?

yes and no. There is a difference between establlished Pagan religions and private ritualists.

Established Pagan religions (Ifa Orisha, Odinani, Maguzawa, etc. .) do not commit such illegal murders.

whereas Private ritualists do and these pvt. ritualists do not confirm to any particular Pagan religions. They can be (and usually are christians,muslims, or Pagans). They are experimenting with the occult.

I do not wish to lie, because Paganism encompasses everything be it good or bad, in order to maintain the balance.

The Solution is for these private ritualists to be banned, until the formation of a Pagan state in which case if a University of Pagan Studies is established, experimenters with the occult can be legally allowed using body parts (just as in medical institutions for study), from deceased individuals who wish to donate. so they can continue with their experiments or ritual practices. This will prevent future murders.

or it can be otlawed completely ecause as I have explained before, Paganism is too vast and varied a concept and doesnt necessairly require human body parts, as in the case of Established Pagan Religions.

PAGAN 9JA:


yes and no. There is a difference between establlished Pagan religions and private ritualists.

Established Pagan religions (Ifa Orisha, Odinani, Maguzawa, etc. .) do not commit such illegal murders.

whereas Private ritualists do and these pvt. ritualists do not confirm to any particular Pagan religions. They can be (and usually are christians,muslims, or Pagans). They are experimenting with the occult.

I do not wish to lie, because Paganism encompasses everything be it good or bad, in order to maintain the balance.

The Solution is for these private ritualists to be banned, until the formation of a Pagan state in which case if a University of Pagan Studies is established, experimenters with the occult can be legally allowed using body parts (just as in medical institutions for study), from deceased individuals who wish to donate. so they can continue with their experiments or ritual practices. This will prevent future murders.

or it can be otlawed completely ecause as I have explained before, Paganism is too vast and varied a concept and doesnt necessairly require human body parts, as in the case of Established Pagan Religions.

Hmmm.... so prosecute the heretics.... errr... private ritualists.

Sounds alot like organised religion to me.

I have no interest or fondness for paganism. It sounds cool but will never work in Nigeria. Nigerians have the propensity for the macabre. Ritual killings would only increase if paganism flourished. My two cents.

Atheist:-D:


Hmmm.... so prosecute the heretics.... errr... private ritualists.

Sounds alot like organised religion to me.

I have no interest or fondness for paganism. It sounds cool but will never work in Nigeria. Nigerians have the propensity for the macabre. Ritual killings would only increase if paganism flourished. My two cents.

you misunderstand. There is no heresy in Paganism. It all depends on public opinion and Govt. Law at the end."

also define organized religion and why is organized religion bad.

You see,

When you visit the tribal people n the bush, you will notice that they practice Raw Paganism. It is not organized. it is inherent.

when you come to the city with governments and civilization, you see organized religions like Ifa ORisha or Odinani (as it was during AroChkwu,etc.), and it is adapted to the organized society.

In the end , it all comes down to the situation.

However, let us not confuse the very Pagan ideology with that of abrahamic monotheism. that cannot be commpromized.

As to your last, this is the standard attitude of Nigerians. I know many people who agree with Traditional Religion, but when it comes to accepting it outrightly, they will just reject it, because THEY REJECT IT. there is no other reason.

It is time Nigerians step out of this narrow mentality.

just the other day i was watching on News, the Japanese celebrating A SHinto Festival in one of their temples, wearing all their (not modern) regalia. you could see businessmen, docotrs and educated people in the midst.

It is time we start taking a lesson of two from the EAST.

To be Pagan is NOT to be underdeveloped.

PAGAN 9JA:



you misunderstand. There is no heresy in Paganism. It all depends on public opinion and Govt. Law at the end."

also define organized religion and why is organized religion bad.

You see,

When you visit the tribal people n the bush, you will notice that they practice Raw Paganism. It is not organized. it is inherent.

when you come to the city with governments and civilization, you see organized religions like Ifa ORisha or Odinani (as it was during AroChkwu,etc.), and it is adapted to the organized society.

In the end , it all comes down to the situation.

However, let us not confuse the very Pagan ideology with that of abrahamic monotheism. that cannot be commpromized.

As to your last, this is the standard attitude of Nigerians. I know many people who agree with Traditional Religion, but when it comes to accepting it outrightly, they will just reject it, because THEY REJECT IT. there is no other reason.

It is time Nigerians step out of this narrow mentality.

just the other day i was watching on New, the Japanese celebrating A SHinto Festival in one of their temples, wearing all their (not modern) regalia. you could see businessmen, docotrs and educated people in the midst.

It is time we start taking a lesson of two from the EAST.

To be Pagan is NOT to be underdeveloped.

To summarise. I have no real beef with pagan religions im Nigeria. They are more accepting and more fluid as opposed to the abrahamic faiths. However in regards to Africa I would prefer something similar to Buddhism.

Check out the number of ritual killings. Arent there already laws against such? If there was a way to prevent ritual killings which are endemic right now are likely to escalate if paganism became the order of the day then I would be all for it.

Sure the organised pagan religions may have strict rules against such (thumbs up for that) but how do you prevent the smaller, hidden babalawos? This is a belief system and as long as ppl believe in it, it will happen.

Atheist:-D:


To summarise. I have no real beef with pagan religions im Nigeria. They are more accepting and more fluid as opposed to the abrahamic faiths. However in regards to Africa I would prefer something similar to Buddhism.

Check out the number of ritual killings. Arent there already laws against such? If there was a way to prevent ritual killings which are endemic right now are likely to escalate if paganism became the order of the day then I would be all for it.

Sure the organised pagan religions may have strict rules against such (thumbs up for that) but how do you prevent the smaller, hidden babalawos? This is a belief system and as long as ppl believe in it, it will happen.

Buddhism is worldwide, it is pure spirituality. I myself adhere to some teachings of Buddhism. Buddhism has always complemented Pagan Traditional religions well in the East.

for example:

Japan: Buddhism / Shintoism
China:Buddhism / Chinese Traditional Religion
India:Buddhism / Hinduism
Tibet:Buddhism / Bon
Mongolia: Buddhism / Tengriism
etc. .



about the ritual killings and laws, you are stating a very vague example. there are laws against MURDER, RAP.E, CORRUPTION, CHILD ABUSE, etc..

DOES THAT MEAN IT STILL DOESNT TAKE PLACE

christiannity and islam has been the order of the day, has that stopped ritual killings? NO!
infact the other day a church was accused of using body parts, abeg for what?

atleast if there is established Pagan Religions as State Religions , people will be more afraid to invoke the wrath of the Spiritual Force by comitting crime.

The end point is that Pagan Traditional Religion is the need of the hour for Nigeria and the rest of Africa and the developing Tribal world.

Because Pagan religion and Tribal Culture is inseparable. if one loses out, the other will be gone for shown.

unbelievers do not really need to believe. they just need to adhere to and practice it as base Tribal Duty.

For example i know many people in INdia who are not so religious , yet they cleberate their Traditional Festivals and visit their shrines, etc., as a duty.

THis concept of Duty towards your identity must be ever-present.

anywayz to be honest, i am more comfortable around atheists because they think rationally unlike. .

^^^
Lol. Better watch it. Most Xtians would say we have the same Father, Satan, so that won't surprise them..

Anyways, back to topic..
Your view on
- soul
- reincarnation
- heaven and hell
- the role of faith in paganism
- ritual killings in paganism (this was present in Chrisitanity, in fact it's the foundation of the Christian belief but let's ignore that for now)

PAGAN 9JA:



Buddhism is worldwide, it is pure spirituality. I myself adhere to some teachings of Busshism. Buddhism has always complemented Pagan Traditional religions well in the East.

for example:

Japan: Buddhism / Shintoism
China:Buddhism / Chinese Traditional Religion
India:Buddhism / Hinduism
Tibet:Buddhism / Bon
Mongolia: Buddhism / Tengriism
etc. .



about the ritual killings and laws, you are stating a very vague example. there are laws against MURDER, RAP.E, CORRUPTION, CHILD ABUSE, etc..

DOES THAT MEAN IT STILL DOESNT TAKE PLACE

christiannity and islam has been the order of the day, has that stopped ritual killings? NO!
infact the other day a church was accused of using body parts, abeg for what?

atleast if there is established Pagan Religions as State Religions , people will be more afraid to invoke the wrath of the Spiritual Force by comitting crime.

The end point is that Pagan Traditional Religion is the need of the hour for Nigeria and the rest of Africa and the developing Tribal world.

Because Pagan religion and Tribal Culture is inseparable. if one loses out, the other will be gone for shown.

unbelievers do not really need to believe. they just need to adhere to and practice it as base Tribal Duty.

For example i know many people in INdia who are not so religious , yet they cleberate their Traditional Festivals and visit their shrines, etc., as a duty.

THis concept of Duty towards your identity must be ever-present.

I agree. Buddhism seems the closest to any religion I would accept. The issue with paganism is in Nigeria or Africa as a whole. Nigeria has a way of tsking the worst of things. It did the same with the Abrahamic faiths. If paganism became dominant i cant see how something similar wont occur.

How many pastors willl convert to babalawos offering financial success for some human Instruments and a small fee .

How would the organised paganist groups clamp down on such stuff. Nigeria is a very lawless society we cant rely on the police to do such.

Wat d difrnce betwen paganism and traditnal religon? Which partcular god d u warship

Atheists don't care about "pagans" since they don't force there "god/s" on people

musKeeto: ^^^
Lol. Better watch it. Most Xtians would say we have the same Father, Satan, so that won't surprise them..

hahaha i know! infact most of the time they think Pagans are atheists. those short-sighted man-worshippers. .

musKeeto: Anyways, back to topic..
Your view on
- soul
- reincarnation
- heaven and hell
- the role of faith in paganism
- ritual killings in paganism (this was present in Chrisitanity, in fact it's the foundation of the Christian belief but let's ignore that for now)

Soul: Spiritual Energy. Exists in all lifeforms. im not sure about non--living things, as to whether they have weaker spiritual energies, becuase there are many contradicitions. requires more research.

Reincarnation: The basic Law of Nature - The Law of Physics states that (material) energy can neither be created nor destroyed. it is conserved., i.e., it will move elsewhere.
In the same way, Spiritual Energy (the soul) can neither be created nor destroyed. it is conserved. i.e., it will move to another body.
we believe in Reincarnation.

Heaven and Hell: doesnt exist. It is upto us humans to create a heaven or hell, here on Earth.

Faith: there must be a balance between faith in the Spiritual and faith in the material.

Ritual Killings: first of all what is sacrifice? Sacrifice is based on the balancing effect/ give-take concept. To earn money, you sacrifice your energy, to make a chair, you sacrifice a tree. in the same way, sacrifices are done because in order to get something from the Gods, one must give something in return. however, different needs have different sacrifices. sacrifices can be anything. it can be food, fruits, vegetables, animals, etc. As long as it is something of some value to you. now we Pagans do not differentiate between creations. If innocent animals are sacrificed, there is nothing wrong with humans being sacrificed. however, just as in the past when criminals, POWs ,etc., were sacrificed, so ,In my opinion, we can sacrifce criminals (i.e., murderers, ra.pists ,etc) to the Gods just as our ancestors did. This can be done in order to purify society and the souls of these criminals by doing them a favour of sending them directly to the Gods. Yes, this might help society.

however if modern society rejects it, so be it. we Pagans do not go by any particular book. as long as our basic concept remains unchanged. if humans are not acceptable for sacrifice, which is the case today in almost all Pagan religions, we cant stick to fruits and animals.

engrtee: Wat d difrnce betwen paganism and traditnal religon? Which partcular god d u warship

its the same thing. Paganism is a term used to include all Trad./Tribal/Ethnic Religions around the world. our religions are natural and have no man-founders.

We worship all Gods. the Creator, The Destroyer, The God of Fertility, of knowledge, of power, etc.

There are countless Gods, however we humans choose and concentrate on only those Gods that affect our lives.

PAGAN 9JA:


Ritual Killings: first of all what is sacrifice? Sacrifice is based on the balancing effect/ give-take concept. To earn money, you sacrifice your energy, to make a chair, you sacrifice a tree. in the same way, sacrifices are done because in order to get something from the Gods, one must give something in return. however, different needs have different sacrifices. sacrifices can be anything. it can be food, fruits, vegetables, animals, etc. As long as it is something of some value to you. now we Pagans do not differentiate between creations. If innocent animals are sacrificed, there is nothing wrong with humans being sacrificed. however, just as in the past when criminals, POWs ,etc., were sacrificed, so ,In my opinion, we can sacrifce criminals (i.e., murderers, ra.pists ,etc) to the Gods just as our ancestors did. This can be done in order to purify society and the souls of these criminals by doing them a favour of sending them directly to the Gods. Yes, this might help society.

however if modern society rejects it, so be it. we Pagans do not go by any particular book. as long as our basic concept remains unchanged. if humans are not acceptable for sacrifice, which is the case today in almost all Pagan religions, we cant stick to fruits and animals.

Hmmm.. Gotta admire your honesty, though I don dey fear you.. Anyways,better honest than christian ...

I'll be back with more questions..

musKeeto:

Hmmm.. Gotta admire your honesty, though I don dey fear you.. Anyways,better honest than christian ...

I'll be back with more questions..

sure and you are welcome.

on my part, I admire that you put the name of your tribe on your signature.

this shows that you stand for everthing it represents. the culture, music , dance , religion, food, lifestyle, bloodline. everything.

People must respect their roots.

PAGAN 9JA:


sure and you are welcome.

on my part, I admire that you put the name of your tribe on your signature.

this shows that you stand for everthing it represents. the culture, music , dance , religion, food, lifestyle, bloodline. everything.

People must respect their roots.

Thanks man.

Moving to India made a huge impression on my life. All that you've earlier stated are indeed what makes up one's identity.

If the Chrisitans are so eager to discard the OT in the face of onslaught from the atheists, Africans should also be willing to forgive their ancestors for actions carried out in ignorance.

That said, I was back home last Christmas and I learnt a lot, though not enough, about hierarchies in Igboland and the osus and all..

Something interests me in your reply though, what do you mean by the basic concepts of paganism? And why do these spirits need worship? Do they interfere in human life?

And what is juju? Is it 'advanced science' or a truckload of superstitions mixed with bullshit?

musKeeto:
Thanks man.

Moving to India made a huge impression on my life. All that you've earlier stated are indeed what makes up one's identity.

If the Chrisitans are so eager to discard the OT in the face of onslaught from the atheists, Africans should also be willing to forgive their ancestors for actions carried out in ignorance.

That said, I was back home last Christmas and I learnt a lot, though not enough, about hierarchies in Igboland and the osus and all..

Something interests me in your reply though, what do you mean by the basic concepts of paganism? And why do these spirits need worship? Do they interfere in human life?

And what is juju? Is it 'advanced science' or a truckload of superstitions mixed with bullshit?

haha India, the land of Paganism and countless religions!
(though muslims and xtians there have f***d/are f***ing things up as we speak.


The basic concept of Paganism is the act of balance. (Ying-Yang)
The balancing of the Forces .


basically this image of the satan, baphomet completes it all. Xtians fear and hate this concept so they createed this false name and image , i dont know why. they call it SATAN.



(notice the balance of light and dark, human and animal, sun and moon, left and right, man and woman, clothed and unclothed, etc..)

Other common concepts involve Spiritualism/belief in many Forces, etc. these and ritualism (connecting to the Spiritual Realm through material means) and idolatory (Visualizing and concentrating of Spiritual Force on material objects),etc. .

The Spirits need worship according to material requirements and to maintain the balancein different realms. they require appeasement. for example, where creation/firtility lacks, there is a requirement for appeasement in order to bring it back to the balance. This requires worship and the concentration Spiritual Energies on the particular force.

Yes the do interfere. they interfere in everything, not just human life. but they do so indirectly. for example , you cant just ask the God of War to kill all the enemies because it is way too materialistic. there is a process. different tribal groups and their respective ancestors have devised their own different means over the cenuries. at times it may look silly but it has been used because it usually works.


Juju is what different people define it as. some people say Juju is all Paganism. but i say not. According to my definition, Juju is pvt West African ritualism. THe person may not be necessairly Pagan. it is not part of an established Pagan religion.

It is done by people who try to experiment with the occult or apply known means. some are true and some are frauds looking for a quick buck.

you might find this outrageous, but i hope somedya in the future, a University for Paganism will be established , so we can probe further into the occult, trough more unconventional means.

As a Pagan, what is your view of Catholicism?

italo: As a Pagan, what is your view of Catholicism?

i think it is is bull****, it was a cowardly attempt by christianity who disguised many cultural and Pagan elements (symbols) of the former religions in order to gain more converts to their new faith. however , it was a trick and a deceit.

catholicism is however true christianity as it was the first way christianity was ever propagated. all other denominations came later.

When African tribes were being pillaged and transported across the world into slavery, did these gods do anything to protect their people? Were there any warnings from these gods?

@Pagan 9ja: Do you believe in life after death? And what is your believe on EVOLUTION?

pa·gan/ˈpeɪgən/ Show Spelled [pey-guhn] Show IPA
noun
1. one of a people or community observing a polytheistic religion, as the ancient Romans and Greeks. Synonyms: polytheist.
2. a person who is not a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. Synonyms: heathen, gentile; idolator; nonbeliever.
3. an irreligious or hedonistic person.
4. a person deemed savage or uncivilized and morally deficient.

polytheist  pol·y·the·ism/ˈpɒliθiˌɪzəm, ˌpɒliˈθiɪzəm/ Show Spelled [pol-ee-thee-iz-uhm, pol-ee-thee-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
the doctrine of or belief in more than one god or in many gods.
source: dictionary.com


in line with the above definitions, it can be surmised that for reference purposes, a pagan is deemed to be an individual who has diverse beliefs in many gods, each for a specific purpose...so there is a god for fertility, a god for rain, a god for good health etc...


it takes a deep understanding of the way a human mind works in order to understand THE NEED for gods. the human mind is evidently bigger than his body and wanders in thoughts, ideas, postulations

things that follow basic natural laws are understood by the human mind and are acceptable in generic our thought process- we understand pain, love, etc. all these stem from the natural flow of human thoughts

it gets complicated when certain events occur, the basis of which is not understood in our flow of logic. Events like death, drought, floods, famine etc which are not recurrent events are viewed as extra-ordinary. Humans attribute these events to supernatural beings, hence the desire to appease them and worship them.

belief in pagan gods is an evidence of a lower sub conscious thought process and not explainable in this present age of scinece and innovation. The superior belief in God (very different from the belief in the man made gods) is totally different and not dependent on our thought processes

Are all magicians pagan and if yes pls explain how they came about all these magic stuff

Is there any evidence that Satan, or whatever pagans worship, exists?

Sorry for my Pidgin oga, but wetin b Pagan view on Creation of man. And wetin b d purpose of a Pagan on earth?

Wow! This is the first time I'm actually taking the time to notice baphomet. The balance is astounding, and if it's true, then christianity has bleeped up a very awesome representation of balance.

SimonAndal: Wow! This is the first time I'm actually taking the time to notice baphomet. The balance is astounding, and if it's true, then christianity has bleeped up a very awesome representation of balance.

What's up? Been a while..

Hmmm...dedinitely following. My questions will come later though...