i dont kno wat to think,

nope, i just believe that sh*t happens!

lauryn:

nope, i just believe that sh*t happens!

Without any rhyme or reason?

shxt happens without cause U know! thats why it's called shxt!

I think I will go with Syrup and Gbade on their clarification.But I will also add that what we are witnessing has become more semantic than belief.karma's true essence has become lost in the day to day usage of the word and people are fiding it hard to let go of its inability to fit into the christian doctrines. Karms is obviously confused with the principle of seed time and harvest as suggested ny the Scriptures.

I dont know how long this particular discourse will be stretched but we may be coming back to these truths again and again.

And it is going to be a long night!

The LAW of Karma must frighten the living daylight out of some christians,because they have been made to rest in contentment in the power of the grace.
The fact that one can get away with any wrongdoing through the grace, must be very reassuring to them,and naturally,they wouldn't want to give it up.
To these christians,one does not have to reap what one sows,as long as one asks for the grace IN TIME.That is what the christian doctrine teaches.All sins can be washed away,
Is that why a vast amount of churches are filled evildoers who feel that they can get away from any evil deed?
Is that why the christian south of Nigeria is so full of unscrupulous and ruthless criminals?
Answers,please.

@jagunlabi,

jagunlabi:

The LAW of Karma must frighten the living daylight out of some christians,because they have been made to rest in contentment in the power of the grace.

Karma does not frighten the Christian, else I'd be shaking like a leaf: and I'm NOT! In fact, it's the other way round for those who cannot reconcile themselves with the free offer of grace. Ask those who believe in the law of karma and don't know what grace is: they're the ones frightenened by stuff happening to them and see an endless circle of re-incarnation as the only way to escape their fear.

jagunlabi:

The fact that one can get away with any wrongdoing through the grace, must be very reassuring to them,and naturally,they wouldn't want to give it up.
To these christians,one does not have to reap what one sows,as long as one asks for the grace IN TIME. That is what the christian doctrine teaches.

Where in the Bible do you find that? Just be civil enough to get the verses for me. And whoever told you that people will get away with their evil under the claim that they are Christian without a life of faith and righteousness? Please go to the Bible and show me where grace equates getting away with evil according to your statement: "That is what the Christian doctrine teaches."

jagunlabi:

Is that why a vast amount of churches are filled evildoers who feel that they can get away from any evil deed?

I noticed that is what you ever see in the churches - everyone is evil except jagunlabi.

jagunlabi:

Is that why the christian south of Nigeria is so full of unscrupulous and ruthless criminals?
Answers,please.

You don't have to be a religious person (Christian or Muslim or other) before you can be a ruthless criminal. Crime does not need religion. Take a trip to Brazil and see areas where there's not much religious expressions: those are the most dangerous spots you'll find in the country. Again, Trinidad is an example that you can't be blind to. See, all this effort to just take the slightest opportunity to castigate people and beliefs prove what exactly is in your heart. If you don't know what grace is, pass over quietly. If you think you do and yet state what it doesn't teach, kindly be a gentleman and be fair enough to get me the verses as requested above.

@jagunlabi,

I have always admired your posts even though I may not necessarily agree with everything you say.Same with everyone else.But the thought that Karma frightens Christians is very very laughable.I have no response my friend cos' I am laughing so hard!!!

Frighten Christians indeed!!

By the way,does hell or that thought of a lake of fire frighten anyone?

@gidig
I said some,not all.You need to readmore thoroughly before responding to posts.
Answer this question;
-Why is it that the southern/western/eastern parts of nigeria that are predominantly christian are so highly criminalised,and the islamic north isn't?
I know quite a number of nigerian drug dealers who attend churches every sunday after having helped poison people the whole week.What makes this people have no remorse for what they do?
I asked one of them,and do you know what his answer was?I quote,"NA SURVIVAL,GOD WILL UNDERSTAND!",unquote.
If the christian grace is not responsible for that,what is?
Do you believe that such people can live under the sharia law?
I know that,on paper,the grace is not meant to encourage lawlessness,but that is exactly what the effect is,in the real world.
This people believe that they can commit atrocities all they want and they are covered by the grace,as long as they believe in christ.
What about the italian mafiosis who attend churches while committing murders all over the place?The grace covers everything evil man does,or so they think.
Our tradition/culture and religion do put the law right at the core of their ideology and doctrine,and that is why in rural areas where tradition dominates,ordinary folks don't live behind "bars" because of the fear of being robbed,like in the cities.

The grace thing needs to be revised in the christian doctrine,to minimise abuse.Even if it is possible,have it scrapped.
Empror Constantine killed,murdered,maimed,destroyed all his life,only to ask for grace,forgiveness and be baptised on his deathbed!Smartguy,no?He just checkmated God right there,because he booked a penthouse suite in heaven just in the nick of time!I bet the devil was his adviser!
Every human being must be held responsible for what he does,without any avenue of reprieve,divine or otherwise.

@jagunlabi,

You really haven't demonstrated common sense in my appeal - simply show me in the Bible where you had misrepresented grace with your assertion that "That is what the Christian doctrine teaches" as you'd earlier hinted:

jagunlabi:

The fact that one can get away with any wrongdoing through the grace, must be very reassuring to them,and naturally,they wouldn't want to give it up. To these christians,one does not have to reap what one sows,as long as one asks for the grace IN TIME.That is what the christian doctrine teaches.All sins can be washed away,

Now again,

jagunlabi:

I know that,on paper, the grace is not meant to encourage lawlessness, but that is exactly what the effect is, in the real world.

If that were true, then every true Christian would have been lawless in the real world - in speech, action and thought: and then, of course, that would suppose that I would be lawless in my own real experience! Sorry, NOT! Ever since I became a Christian by faith through grace in Christ, righteousness has been a very real experience to me - the very opposite of what you've tried to baselessly assert. A person who knows true grace is not a criminal, and the Bible has warned in many places that some people will abuse the grace of God, claiming that they are Christians when in fact their lives show the very opposite. Go figure what is waiting for them on the day of reckoning.

Grace never supposes that on paper or in the real world, a person has licence to operate as a criminal while claiming to be Christian. It just doesn't work like that, nor has it ever, nor ever will in the future. Drug lords and social miscreants abound everywhere; and don't start pretending that there are no criminals in the rural areas, or that politicians have not been discovered to be bigger criminals from the north when they travel "on business" abroad. Were there no criminals before Christianity and Islam in Nigeria? Or, if there were no such religions in Nigeria, would there not have been an upsurge of crime in the country after how many decades of military coups?

The point is, anyone can be a criminal at heart, and to use religion as an umbrella for criminal activities is even more sinister. To blame religion for just about anything and everything shows backward thinking because if crime exists in any given society, be objective enough to look at the the society as a whole rather than ignore certain factors that otherwise be more responsible for your complaints.

@Jagnlabi,
I Statrted the response to your very unique argument against the grace of God yesterday and and some 'wahala' on the server prevented it from being posted.If I get your sbmisions right, I will be wondering like mlks_baby.Now I ave heard a lof of bizzare things on this thread aginst Christianity but this is indeed very novel;it is the grace of God that is allowing people to be sinful.If the same God who said there is a lake of fire if people do not repent before judgement were to be a little hard,people will be more righteous and from your example, sinful people will not be coming to church?

Stretching your argument further means then the minute you question this Grace thing from this very lenient God, He should have judged you.In fact, in some climes what you have suggested amounted to abominantion and you should face the death sentence!

Do you get it? The very grace that you criticize is the resaon why a Christian who understands that grace and acknowledges the grace over his/her life can tolerate what you have said.Do you know what Christ would have said to your scorn? Father forgive Him;he knows not what he is saying!

The grace you dont understand is at work with you then!

Ya absolutely.Its logical;you believe in law of hardwork then you have the law.What you sow so shall you reap

Hell Yeah, dat shit has bin F*****ing with me since i was a kid, i know he be rite round d korner dats y i try not to mess up, b4 he locks me in a Figure 4,

As a Christian, I don't believe in karma. Many people have a simplistic idea of karma and have associated it closely with Gal. 6:2 - ". . .for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

However, karma is not as simplistic as many think. It goes beyond the idea of cause and effect, and is closely linked to the concept of re-incarnation; so that one has to be reborn into new bodies to come into the world again and again until they right their wrongs and get everything right before progressing to the great beyond. In other words, the idea is to go beyond constant births and rebirths to achieve nirvana, similar to the Hindu moksha.

Christianity does not teach reincarnation (Heb. 9:27); although, we acknowledge the fact that the way one lives his or her life here will define their ultimate destiny. Rather than a karma of reincarnation, there is a note of finality in Christianity: there's no reborn into new bodies to come back and correct any wrong.

We have the privilege of knowing God's truth today and living by it.

In my opinion, karma is about reaping what you sow; It is same as cause and effect; it is same as seed time and harvest time; whatever name you give it, it is real.

As a christian, yes your sins are forgiven, oold things are now new, but how do we explain the diverse surferings of Paul? He reaped what he sowed in a way yes. David was repentant of the adultary with someone's wife, but still suffered in the loss of the child.

God's grace, I think, only softens the effect of our past wrongs, but going back to it after you're forgiven might even expose you to more consequences.

DevDel:

As a christian, yes your sins are forgiven, oold things are now new, but how do we explain the diverse surferings of Paul? He reaped what he sowed in a way yes. David was repentant of the adultary with someone's wife, but still suffered in the loss of the child.

First, the Bible does not say that "old things are now new" - that would simply be saying that old habits and issues continue in a new way! On the contrary, Scripture says: "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Cor. 5:17).

But what about Paul - was he reaping what he sowed in any way? Not at all. When he was converted, the Lord chose him as a special vessel to bear His Name to the Gentiles - and for that very thing, Paul would know the suffering that comes along with a life devoted to the Lord's cause (Acts 9.15 & 16). Even Paul himself could claim that as touching the righteousness which was in the Law, he was blameless (Php. 3:6); so to have inferred that he was reaping what he had sowed as if he had committed some hideously unforgivable sin is to miss the point altogether.

Suffering for Christ because one is a Christian is a common experience. There are many people today who are suffering for no other reason than their being Christian (1 Pet. 4:16). The Lord Jesus already warned that following Him as a Christian will inevitably bring suffering and persecution -

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake" (Matt. 5:11).

We can rejoice that the suffering that comes because one is a Christian, will yield blessed results:

"Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you." (Matt. 5:12)

DevDel:

God's grace, I think, only softens the effect of our past wrongs, but going back to it after you're forgiven might even expose you to more consequences.

I may agree with you that returning or continuing in sin brings devastating results and leaves the person worse off (Matt. 12:45 - ". . .and the last state of that man is worse than the first"; and John 5:14 - ". . Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. ".

However, the 'grace' that "only softens" the effect of past wrongs is NO grace at all; because it deals with the effect and does not deal with the problem itself. That is not the grace of God revealed in Scripture. Certain wrongs people do unto others have far reaching consequences - murder, physical injury, abortion, etc. However, when a person is forgiven and comes to experience divine grace, God holds nothing against such people; otherwise grace is of no value at all.

People who have committed deeds against civil laws will have to face the civl authorities - and being divinely forgiven does not mean that they therefore will escape going to prison if their deeds so deserve. But facing civil authorities is not to be confused for standing before God as 'forgiven'. If 'grace' means that one still has to ultimately suffer the consequences of their sins before GOD, then there is no forgiveness in the first place.

Divine grace reaches deep to the very problem of man's sin and deals with it. It is beautifully illustrated in the event recorded in John 8. The woman caught in the act was being accused by the religious authorities (even though the civil authorities of the Roman government was still in force). When the Lord forgave and set the woman free by His grace, she was free indeed - and neither of the two authorities (religious or civil) of the day could call her to account for the same allegation against her.

if its the one that says "what goes around comes around," yeah I do!

Most christians hate to admit it but there are elements of Hinduism in the bible such as the law of Karma.

I am sure you are all familiar with Galatians 6: 7 - 9 was taken right out of the Hindu holy book. This is something Krishna advocated before Christ or the new testemony (testament) was written.

Galatians 6: 7 - 9
"Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap."

This is exactly what the law of Karma teaches, whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

As we all know the Law of Karma is a philosophy of Hinduism. However, most pastors will never address it as such, and will do anything to hide these fact, because they are filled with be[b]lie[/b]fs/ be[b]lie[/b]ve and have not facts.

Whatever you sow, you must reap. And you reap in mutiples of what you sowed wheather it is good or bad. Belief in the law of sowing and reaping may not be validated by quoting sacred texts of various world religions but in the experience of each individual. Any person who is concious of his activities including his actions, thoughts, words, imagination etc will discern that what ever you put out comes back to you in multiples. If you sow wind, you will reap whirlwind. If you sow snow, you will reap an avalanche. Law of sowing and reaping is very compatible with the justice and grace of God. Howelse can we mature and be better human beings if we are not confronted with the consequences of our activities. It is by tasting the fruit of the seed we give to others do we experience wheather it is bitter or sweet. The basis of love is justice. Justice without love is not justice and love without justice is not love.

Whether i like it or not, i will surely reap what i sow. And am sure that everyone here will easily understand that, there is truly a genuine feeling of happiness in our soul that comes with doing good works (deeds that are beneficial to not only you,but your neighbour as well). And surely an heaviness of heart that we feel in our soul, when we do that which is simply wrong & not good. And no deeply religious humanbeing will ever choose to do evil instead of good, if they want to be taken seriously about their faith. So dear friends, lets start with sowing the right seeds today without much words to it, that we may experience the natural blessings thereof. Re-incarnation to me, is a concept that requires much more than books & public debates to fully understand. & if you can't understand it, i would simply like to suggest that, you quietly keep it aside & leave it alone. Better that way than saying (sowing with your words) certain things, that a solemn personal reflection did not prompt you to say. However, am happy that most of us agree that nothing good comes without a correspondingly good effort. And, does it surprise anyone why, the heaven of all true religion, is never inhabited by evildoers? Re-incarnation or no re-incarnation, we simply reap what we sow.

Yes I do.

Karma might be a bytch to some folks be he/she is my best friend.




Indulge in deviousness....


Or do something right....
[img]http://charmedyogi.files./2012/04/good-karma-yoga.png[/img]

the choice is ours...
God just gives us what we deserve.

"Today for me...tomorrow for YOU."

[size=18pt]Karma is the key, rule, and meaning of life.[/size]

You cannot believe in God or common sense and not, Karma.

Pacifier: Whether i like it or not, i will surely reap what i sow. And am sure that everyone here will easily understand that, [size=18pt]there is truly a genuine feeling of happiness in our soul that comes with doing good works (deeds that are beneficial to not only you,but your neighbour as well). And surely an heaviness of heart that we feel in our soul, when we do that which is simply wrong & not good. And no deeply religious humanbeing will ever choose to do evil instead of good[/size], if they want to be taken seriously about their faith. So dear friends, lets start with sowing the right seeds today without much words to it, that we may experience the natural blessings thereof. Re-incarnation to me, is a concept that requires much more than books & public debates to fully understand. & if you can't understand it, i would simply like to suggest that, you quietly keep it aside & leave it alone. Better that way than saying (sowing with your words) certain things, that a solemn personal reflection did not prompt you to say. However, am happy that most of us agree that nothing good comes without a correspondingly good effort. And, does it surprise anyone why, the heaven of all true religion, is never inhabited by evildoers? Re-incarnation or no re-incarnation, we simply reap what we sow.

i see why you chose that signature:

common-sense, simply makes more sense.

SPOT ON!

as a Traditionalist, yes. i believe in Karma. the balancing of the forces.