mazaje: Only one reading the koran with the eyes of faith could seriously disregard that the book on almost every page instructs observant muslims to despise non believers. On almost every page, it prepares the ground for religious conflict.

Infact while in nysc camp,a room mate was telling a fellow muslim dt any1 who does not pray for some specific no of times ought to b killed as stated by their kooran

Tbaba or what do u call ursef, u called our Lord Jesus, a pagan god, ok. It is well, El Rufai makes blasphemy of our Lord Jesus christ, nobody says anything 2 dat, but if dey make blasphemy of ur yeye Mohammed, u go about killin people, causing mayhem here and there. If truly ur religion is a religion of peace, why dnt u allow ur Allah fight for u??

This thread stopped making much sense from page 3.

I propose that the time has come for us to begin to isolate and treat religious extremists as a different breed of human beings who are a threat to both Christians and Muslims. The war against extremists will be difficult to fight as long as we lump all Muslims together and refuse to acknowledge that many, if not most, of them are genuinely embarrassed by the activities of terrorists who are tarnishing the image of their religion. I argue that every religion has its own “lunatic fringe”—and although Christians are successfully dealing with their own lunatics, making them virtually irrelevant, the words of the Bible are nonetheless subject to manipulation the same way a few Muslims are twisting the Qur’an to justify suicide-bombing and mass murder.

On what ground can we conclude that every single Muslim subscribes to the philosophy of terrorism? On what ground can we conclude that because it is very rare to see Christians take to terrorism, then all Christians are “good guys” and do not contribute in any form to fuelling ethno-religious crises in Nigeria? I don’t think name-calling, stereo-typing and blame-trading can ever resolve any conflict.


The first is the fact that we all believe we were all created by the same God. This is very key. Muslims and Christians have different beliefs that can never align. Christians say Jesus is the only begotten son of God; Muslims say God does not beget and therefore does not have a son. We can never come to an agreement on that. Christians say Jesus is the only way to God; Muslims say Islam is the true way to God. On this, again, we can never agree. However, even the most extremist Christian and the most fanatical Muslim agree that all human beings were created by the same God, no matter your religion or colour or race. That is a very important fact in this discourse. We were all created by the same God. Even extremists cannot deny it.


The second is “accommodation” or “tolerance”.A Muslim extremist will even quote the Qur’an: “O you who believe, take not the Jew and Christian as friends” (Surah 5:51). But what of several verses from the Qu’ran where Christians and Jews (“people of the book”) are called believers and Muslims are urged to love them? A Christian fanatic will also open the Bible to 2 Corinthians 6:14: “Do not be yoked together with unbelievers… What does a believer have in common with an unbeliever?” But what of Bible passages that say we should love our neighbours as ourselves and that we should live in peace with all men?


That is what I mean when I say you can quote the Bible or the Qur’an to justify anything. All you need to do is quote verses out of context—simply ignore the circumstances, ignore the audience, ignore the intent and ignore the historical background. That is how extremism works. Extremism thrives on proclaiming differences above similarities, hate above love, war above peace and destruction above salvation. Extremists conveniently avoid scriptures that preach that say we were all created by the same God, that we are all brothers and sisters irrespective of our differences. And, sadly, the extremists always have the upper hand. So if 1.2 billion Muslims are ready to live in peace with Christians, it is the one or two million who engage in terrorism that get heard. And it is this tiny minority causing havoc that gets all the publicity.


The third message is: we can understand our differences and live in harmony with one another! That is the philosophy that drives me in life. We cannot all be Christians; we cannot all be Igbo; we cannot all be white; we cannot all be women; we cannot all be PDP. The diversity we have in the world today was created by God himself. So having differences is not the problem. The real question is: how may we live in peace and harmony in spite of our differences? I’m not interested in being a Muslim; you’re not interested in being a Christian. Should that be the end of the world? Why don’t you stick to your Islam and allow me to stick to my Christianity? Why should we be preaching and promoting bigotry and hate in the name of religion and ethnicity?


Someone told me recently that Muslims are violent by nature. I replied: “But my Muslim cousins are not violent! My Muslim cousins are not violent!” He replied in a similar manner, saying his own Muslim cousins are not violent too. So if he knew that, why make such a sweeping statement? I was reflecting on the issue of integration recently and it dawned on me that my inner circle of friends is made up of people from different religions and ethnic groups. There are millions of Nigerians with a similar story. I know Muslims who are married to Christians, Igbos married to Yorubas, and so on. How come then that it is the divisive agents that control the public sphere? Are we not yielding too much space to the bigots and ethic chauvinists such that they now appear to be more in number?
We who believe in living peace and harmony must begin to speak out now. We must begin to raise our voices to condemn extremism in any form. We must hijack the airwaves from the bigots. Now is the time for us to start our own war—what I call the “war for peace”—by pushing these lunatic bigots to where they belong: history.

El Rufai's comment about Jesus(Isa) goes a long way to say that he is not a Muslim but those people that hide under the umbrella of Islam to cause disrepute to the religion. First of all believing Muslims love and believe in all the prophets of Allah I.e Musa, Isa(Jesus), Abraham, Nuh, Adam and Muhammad. So if you say anything against one you are speaking against others, invariably if you disbelieve in one prophet then you disbelieve in the others.

We should all realise that El Rufai was part of a corrupt system(OBJ's Administration) and Islam forbids corruption so if a man like El Rufai speaks, his speech should not be seen as the view/opinion of all Muslims.

jamil!:
you dont need to advertised you can go ahead and marry it.

lol....

A man wanted to commit suicide. He knelt down and prayed: “God, if it is your wish that I commit suicide, please show me through your word.” He picked up the Bible, opened it randomly and his eyes fell on Matthew 27:5: “And Judas went out and hanged himself.” Not satisfied, perhaps out of fear, the man knelt down again and prayed: “Father Lord, the Bible says out of the mouths of two or three witnesses, a word shall be established. If you are the one who spoke to me just now, please confirm it with another verse from the Bible.” Then he opened the Bible again and his eyes fell on John 13:27: “What you are about to do, do it quickly”.


That’s a joke, I suppose, but this is my message: you can use the Bible to justify anything in the world. In 1989, I read the story of a “church” of hemp smokers in Vintage People magazine. Asked why they were doing that, the head of the “church” quoted the Bible. “Jesus said in Matthew 15:11 that it is not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man but what comes out of his mouth,” the man said, shamelessly. A deranged Christian can actually justify suicide-bombing by using the Bible story of Samson, who pulled down the Philistine temple, killing all the worshippers with himself.


Why am I citing these instances and talking in this manner? I have noticed that we think religious extremism is an Islamic problem that should be confronted by Muslims alone. The tendency is for Christians to say “these Muslims have come again”, ignoring the fact that extremist elements within their own ranks can do exactly to the Christian faith what the terrorists are doing to Islam—quoting the Qur’an out of context, killing innocent souls and convincing themselves that they are fighting the cause of Allah.


Actually, Christians have had their own battles with extremists who, though may not be suicide bombers, are weird enough to encourage people to commit suicide under the guise that it was so directed by God. We had “Jesu Oyingbo” (Emmanuel Odumosu) who operated a fiefdom where the most severe form of incest was perpetrated—and, of course, he would tell you that Abraham and Sarah were siblings, quoting the Bible! The Crusaders, we must remember, also claimed to be fighting for Jesus Christ. Between 1095 and 1291, they killed Muslims, Greek Orthodox Christians in Byzantium, “pagan” Slavs, “pagan” Balts, Mongols and Christian “heretics” who did not accept the Roman Catholic teachings.


On the other hand, there is also the tendency for a few Muslims to have sympathy for the extremists with the belief that indeed, they are fighting the cause of Islam. And so while many Muslims may be condemning their activities, a few could be thinking they are justified because of “Islamophia” in the Western world. There is this mistaken belief that the West is Christian. Maybe it was Christian, but no longer. I think the Western world today is patently anti-Christian. How can a society that promotes pornography, bestiality, perversion, infidelity and abortion represent Christian civilisation? How?


The way the West vs East (Christian vs Muslim) debate has been structured globally begs the question on the real issues at stake. If Iraq invades Kuwait, it is not a war against Islam. But if the US invades Kuwait, it is a war against Islam. If Iran attacks Iraq, it is not an attack against Islam. But if the US attacks Iran, it is a war against Muslims. NATO launched strikes against Yugoslavia when Muslim Kosovars were being massacred; it was not seen as a war against Christians. Let the same NATO forces bomb Syria and it would be framed as an attack against Muslims. Are Israelis oppressing Palestinians because they are Muslims or because of the land? The framing of issues around religion, even when religion has nothing to do it, is a major supplier of fertiliser to the growth of religious extremism.


Yet I know that most Muslims are upset by the killings being perpetrated by extremists. I’ve had heart-to-heart discussions with many Muslims who wonder why all the good virtues being preached by their religion have been submerged by the activities of a few extremists. One said to me: “There are about 1.2 billion Muslims all over the world. These extremists fomenting trouble are not up to 1 per cent of our population, but they are the ones by which our religion is judged.” Every religion, it must be said, has its own “lunatic fringe”. The only difference, it would appear, is that Christians are able to successfully ignore or dissociate themselves from their own lunatics. But the lunatics exist nonetheless, even if they are not into suicide-bombing.


I know Muslims who are genuinely embarrassed by the activities of the extremists—just as I was when recently a deranged Norwegian went on a killing spree, saying he wanted to save Europe from Islam. He described himself as a Christian. As a Christian, I was embarrassed and angry. I was ready to confront him, to quote several scriptures where Jesus Christ denounced violence—in fact, at the point of his arrest when Peter drew out his sword and attacked one of the soldiers, Jesus rebuked Peter! Jesus said those who live by the sword would die by the sword. Christians were asked to pray for their enemies and those who “despitefully” use them. I was ready to sit down with the Norwegian guy and ask him to justify his madness with the Bible.


Then it dawned on me—extremists are a different breed. They are not ruled by reason or common sense. But there was an encouraging development in Yemen some years ago. An Islamic cleric challenged the extremists to justify suicide-bombing with the Qur’an. They sat together. They flipped through the Qur’an, page by page. At the end of the day, the extremists went away convinced that suicide-bombing is un-Islamic. They could not point to a single verse in the Qur’an that allows you to wilfully take your own life for whatever reason. Not one verse! The verses that relate to dying for Islam and being rewarded with virgins in heaven which the extremists always use are not about wilful death. They are about dying in the service of Islam.

There is a difference between a soldier who dies on the battlefront and the one who wilfully commits suicide. Somebody needs to pass this message to the suicide bombers.
Most importantly, how can a Muslim justify the killing of a fellow Muslim? These extremists throw bombs. The bombs do not discriminate. They kill both Muslims and non-Muslims. In fact, 59 Muslims were killed in the 9/11 attacks. Many Muslims were killed in the UN House blast. A Muslim lady, Rahman Abdullahi, who died in the UN blast was buried yesterday. Now, can the suicide bomber justify that before his Maker on the Last Day? Can he say: “My Lord, I killed my fellow Muslim because I was fighting for Islam”? Somebody needs to pass this message to the suicide bombers.


That brings me to the point I want to make today: we are all victims of terrorism, so we must find a common voice to condemn it and a common fist to fight it. We should stop seeing terrorists as Muslims or Christians. We should begin to see them as another breed of human beings who are a danger to the human race, made up of Muslims and non-Muslims. They should be isolated and treated as people who need help. The Christians who think it is an Islamic problem and revel in ridiculing Islam on that basis need a rethink. The Muslims who think the extremists are fighting the cause of Islam need a rethink. We are dealing with a common enemy—a breed of suicidal beings who are a threat to everyone—their fellow Muslims inclusive.


Finally, terrorism anywhere must not be justified. When the Niger Delta militants were bombing oil installations, it was terrorism pure and simple. Soldiers of Niger Delta origin died in the attacks. When they bombed Abuja on October 1 last year, the bomb did not pick its victims. It killed Nigerians from various parts. Nothing, I repeat, nothing should justify killing innocent souls. Not religion. Not resource control. Not ethnicity.


I repeat: we are all victims of terrorism. Let no person gloat—Muslim, Christian, CPC, ACN, PDP, Northerner, Southerner, etc etc.

akpumping7720: Tbaba or what do u call ursef, u called our Lord Jesus, a pagan god, ok. It is well, El Rufai makes blasphemy of our Lord Jesus christ, nobody says anything 2 dat, but if dey make blasphemy of ur yeye Mohammed, u go about killin people, causing mayhem here and there. If truly ur religion is a religion of peace, why dnt u allow ur Allah fight for u??

I never called Jesus, a pagan god. Where did you get that from??

I said that muslims are not allowed to insult Jesus (AS) or any messenger and we are not even allowed to insult a pagan god.

You seem to forget that Jesus (AS) is still highly revered in Islam, I wouldn't say that about him

Reyginus: An advice for vedaxcool and tbaba.
One of the most stupid thing anybody can ever do is to sit down, compose lengthy articles, not only not addressing the issue at hand, but also worth nothing.
Even though you want to be meaningless, save yourself the stress of typing long speeches. Make the garbage short.

Garbage shorter. Asseblief tog.

musKeeto:
No mind those boys... lol..


You do not seem to get the point, do you? It's not about the majority, but the actions of the minority. If the majority are peace-loving, why are the actions of the minority louder? That's the point of the OP. So yes, LogicBoy's message is directed to the right audience. What? Should he have addressed this to Muslims or Pagans?


No one's is indicting Northerners here, but as people would say, clean up the problems in your home. The sentiments you speak of are present everywhere in Nigeria... evil politicians, high unemployment rate, cultural heritage and low literacy levels, but you don't hear of Non-Muslims killing Muslims in other parts of the country. The militants, for example, though Christians, NEVER used the BIBLE as an excuse for kidnapping foreigners and blowing up pipelines. Why is there so much tension in the North? Why does there have to be this warning only in the Islam section? "To avoid being banned, please ensure that your post is not offensive to Islam... What's it about Islam that puts ITS SANCTITY first before HUMANITY? Must everyone be a Muslim for Islam to truly be a religion of peace? Islam may be good or bad, depending on the interpretation of the Quran one chooses to adhere to, that doesn't exculpate it of any blame when Non-Muslims are killed because of some nonsense some random guy said?


First of all,it was a retweet. Secondly, just like you are skilled enough to defend the indefensible in the Quran, I was really hoping you'd be smart enough to understand the context of the tweet. Maybe, I was expecting too much..


Lol, so sensitivity is now an excuse. So I insult your God, and instead of simply ignoring me and moving on, let the 'illiterate Muslims' teach them a lesson while we keep shouting 'Islam is a religion of peace', abi?


I fail to see what bearing this has on the OP.
One question: IS THE SURVIVAL AND SANCTITY OF ISLAM, THE QURAN, ITS TENETS AND THE ARABIC LANGUAGE MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU THAN A PEACEFUL NIGERIA? If Islam were banned in Nigeria by GEJ, would you lead a revolt against the government?


I'd have to agree with you that most Nigerians are sensitive about their religion and beliefs. It's the same story through every thread: abuses against those who attack MOG's ( Christians against Christians), tithers vs non-tithers... but none of these guys end up being killed for their beliefs. I'm yet to get this warning To avoid being banned, please ensure that your post is not offensive to Christianity on the religion section, so what's your point?


There are tribalists in all corners of Nigeria. When non-muslims are killed, it's for RELIGIOUS not TRIBAL reasons. Please, understand this difference. STOP BLAMING government for the actions of a few misguided Muslims. Look inwards, because our government isn't going to get better any time soon.. should we then expect the death of more non-muslims?

Rushed.. I'll be back to edit later..

On the point of the warning in this section, it was non-Muslims that schemed, whined and cried for it to be put here and Seun who isn't Muslim did. It is time to do a 360 degree turn and start speaking from both sides of your mouth.

www.nairaland.com/1180438/blasts-el-rufai-jesus-comment-twitter

Bigots can go over to that thread and like CAN some more! Atlest the man tried involved apologized over a comment that was clearly misconstrued and wasn't meant to be a joke about Jesus but a criticism of how govt. Spokes persons behave when criticized, but trust the atheist op and his christians cheer leaders to take things out of context! Anyway it was wrong thing to do bringing religious personality into such discourse!

bilms: Nasir El-Rufai
Hello Friends. I have been travelling and try to catch some sleep in between the last 24 hours and missed all the furore arising from my retweet of Ogunyemi Bukola's (@zeebook) joke Maku eat al and Jesus. I must say I am taken aback by the extent of desperate misrepresentation of what was an innocuous attempt to show the godlessness of the Jonathanians to denigrate anyone that dares to ask them to be accountable.

To those who were genuinely offended by the retweet , I apologize. I did not meant to offend anyone, neither did the @zeebook I know and featured as one of the Young Voices in my Friday Column. Jesus or Isa Alaihis Salaam is a respected prophet of Islam. Every Muslim accepts this in addition to his miraculous virgin birth. It is therefore absurd for any Muslim believer to disrespect Jesus Christ.

I hope those in this class will see my point of view and accept my apologies for any offense or disappointment caused. And I advise everyone... to read @zeebook's timeline and mine to read EXACTLY what was tweeted rather than the second-hand reports of certain people who ALWAYS twist whatever I write or not write to achieve their morally-repugnant objectives.

To those in that class of liar - the political contractors who tried to attribute the entire statement to me to destroy perceived political capital, I say keep on doing that till the day your cups will be full. Everything these days is reduced to posturing for 2015,but those doing it do not even know which one of us will be alive to witness the events of that time. I leave all those to God and their conscience.

To the Warriors of God, who misinterpret the Scriptures (both Bilble and Qur'an) and pretend to be capable of fighting His battles, please learn from history. The multiple Crusades and Jihads are yet to convert the entire human race into one religion. If God wished us all to be of one religion, He would have made us so. So please leave God's work to Him, and just be good to other humans.

I thank all my friends who stood up for me in this saga. They know me better than what the desperate Jonathanians want to paint as El-Rufai. An those that wish to know me a little batter should please read my forthcoming book. Thanks and God Bless.

http://www.facebook.com/nasirelrufai/posts/10152454480580128

The desperate ones like the op et al who thrive on using lies as a selling point of their propaganda! The truth is he retweeted a comment by one zeebook, yet the op like the leeches of the Jonathan regime attributed a comment to el rufia that wasn't originally his, this is a pity and a deliberate misinformation at best!


www.nairaland.com/1177732/el-rufai-apologizes-jesus-joke-twitter

vedaxcool: www.nairaland.com/1180438/blasts-el-rufai-jesus-comment-twitter

Bigots can go over to that thread and like CAN some more! Atlest the man tried involved apologized over a comment that was clearly misconstrued and wasn't meant to be a joke about Jesus but a criticism of how govt. Spokes persons behave when criticized, but trust the atheist op and his christians cheer leaders to take things out of context! Anyway it was wrong thing to do bringing religious personality into such discourse!

I think the OP is 100% right. Some muslims say vile things about xtianity and Christ (as well as other religions) but it does not lead to their deaths or deaths of other muslims. The violence associated with Islam is an issue to be addressed by the moderate muslims. So rather than trying to dodge the question you should admit that some muslims take these things too far and start discussing how we all can address this. Also add extremist race hate preachers to the topic too.

^
Islam has condemned extremism from day one of its existence, till this very moment muslims have done a lot in refuting extremist views, it is ignorant people like the op et al, that would wake up one day and begin speaking out of reality when in fact they need to prescribe solutions to their uncontrollable ability to manufacture lies and distort reality (just like you are doing), before one goes running his mouth on a problem, he needs to know what has been done, I am least surprised knowing the antecedents of the op!

In the Name of Christ, all of these long history accusations can make one deazy. It is well, now.

For Christians surely you must know all this has been foretold in the bible. You can not wish it away for the Word of God cannot got back to Him without happening, otherwise it would render the bible just a book like many others and not the Word Of God. All this has to happen, not even your logical appeals will change it. Let it be.

vedaxcool: ^
Islam has condemned extremism from day one of its existence, till this very moment muslims have done a lot in refuting extremist views, it is ignorant people like the op et al, that would wake up one day and begin speaking out of reality when in fact they need to prescribe solutions to their uncontrollable ability to manufacture lies and distort reality (just like you are doing), before one goes running his mouth on a problem, he needs to know what has been done, I am least surprised knowing the antecedents of the op!

Have YOU condemned any of these types?

What can be done to make Islam a more tolerant religion?

I am a practical person. I dont believe in lip service. What you see is different from what is on ground. Ppl are being killed in a lot of countries in the name of Islam. It is time TRUE muslims stood uo against this nonsense. NO MORE EXCUSES.

Atheist:-D:


Have YOU condemned any of these types?

What can be done to make Islam a more tolerant religion?

I am a practical person. I dont believe in lip service. What you see is different from what is on ground. Ppl are being killed in a lot of countries in the name of Islam. It is time TRUE muslims stood uo against this nonsense. NO MORE EXCUSES.

*Yawns*

tbaba1234:

I never called Jesus, a pagan god. Where did you get that from??

I said that muslims are not allowed to insult Jesus (AS) or any messenger and we are not even allowed to insult a pagan god.

You seem to forget that Jesus (AS) is still highly revered in Islam, I wouldn't say that about him

wow no offense meant but I never knew a muslim could reply like this without taking offense

musKeeto:
No mind those boys... lol..

You do not seem to get the point, do you? It's not about the majority, but the actions of the minority. If the majority are peace-loving, why are the actions of the minority louder? That's the point of the OP. So yes, LogicBoy's message is directed to the right audience. What? Should he have addressed this to Muslims or Pagans.

No one's is indicting Northerners here, but as people would say, clean up the problems in your home. The sentiments you speak of are present everywhere in Nigeria... evil politicians, high unemployment rate, cultural heritage and low literacy levels, but you don't hear of Non-Muslims killing Muslims in other parts of the country. Why is there so much tension in the North?

Why is there so much tension in the North? Why does there have to be this warning only in the Islam section? "To avoid being banned, please ensure that your post is not offensive to Islam... What's it about Islam that puts ITS SANCTITY first before HUMANITY? Must everyone be a Muslim for Islam to truly be a religion of peace? Islam may be good or bad, depending on the interpretation of the Quran one chooses to adhere to, that doesn't exculpate it of any blame when Non-Muslims are killed because of some nonsense some random guy said?

Louder?? It is simple, they have bombs. That is what gets on the news.. Who is going to report a muslim helping out his community? That is not news, right?? Muslims from all works of life have condemned the actions of these groups and as far as i know, local imams have discussed these things in their sermons. Unless, you want muslims to take up arms to fight as well. Then, Why do we have a military?

The wrong audience, well, for the most part. As far i know, there has not been any 'religious' conflict within my sphere of Influence. The same applies to most of the Nairaland muslims here. What is a muslim living in the south west, south east or south south going to do with this message? We know the conflict is localised mainly in North East Nigeria.

A problem does exist but like i said, it is not as black and white as you portray. There are muslims from other parts of the country who have been killed or almost killed in conflicts in the North. No discrimination goes on when the conflicts start. So it is not as simple as muslims killing non-muslims. If they do meet a muslim on the way, he is a goner as well.

I did not just list those things. Look at these studies

First from Aljazeera:

Despite attacks on churches, Christians are not the only targets of Boko Haram assaults. Boko Haram adherents privilege a version of Islam that regards as transgressors those who do not abide strictly to the teachings of Allah. The net effect is that faithful Muslims are often targets of its wrath. For instance, it assassinated Sheikh Ibrahim Ahmed, a critic of the sect at Gomari Mosque in Maiduguri. According to Hussein Solomon,Senior Professor in Department of Political Science at the University of the Free State in South Africa, Sheikh Ibrahim’s assassination was a clear message to other Imams that the only credible interpretation of the Qur'an is the Islamist one. Also, on 13 July 2012, a Boko Haram suicide bomber attempted to kill two prominent Muslims -- the Shehu of Borno and the state’s deputy governor -- as they completed their Friday prayer. Both men escaped but ten of Muslims lost their lives.[/b]19 For Boko Haram, Nigeria’s national and state governments are run by non-believers. As such, Muslim political elites stand condemned for their cooperation with their Christian counterparts.


There's more:

Abimbola Adesoji, Lecturer at the Department of History at Obafemi Awolowo University in Nigeria, has shown that [b]various underlying factors such as economic disequilibrium, envy, pervasive poverty and rampant unemployment render many youths willing tools in the hands of patrons. This assertion is corroborated by the fact that states most susceptible to religious violence and terrorism are those that are “poorer, unstable, and have a chronic history of violence.” As argued by Jonnie Carson, current U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs, Boko Haram thrives on “popular frustrations with leaders, poor government service delivery, and the deteriorating living conditions of many northerners. Boko Haram seeks to humiliate and undermine the government and to exploit religious differences in order to create chaos and to make Nigeria ungovernable.”

http://studies.aljazeera.net/en/reports/2012/07/20127316859987337.htm

Like the paper said: This assertion is corroborated by the fact that states most susceptible to religious violence and terrorism are those that are “poorer, unstable, and have a chronic history of violence.”

various underlying factors such as economic disequilibrium, envy, pervasive poverty and rampant unemployment render many youths willing tools in the hands of patrons

Boko Haram thrives on “popular frustrations with leaders, poor government service delivery, and the deteriorating living conditions of many northerners.

See, it is not as straight forward as you want to paint it. It is a complex situation. And those factors all contribute to the violence in certain parts of Nigeria.


More Interesting reading for you: This is from New York times Matt mccann in his paper: Looking at the Tangled Roots of Violence in Northern Nigeria

Skeptical of the easy binaries of “north vs. south,” “Islam vs. Christianity,” rich and poor — as the conflict is conventionally presented in many news outlets — Ms. Kurzen, on several trips to Nigeria beginning in April 2011, sought to reveal an intricate underlying set of circumstances. “It’s a convenient divide — it makes things a bit more readable,” said Ms. Kurzen, 32, “but the reality is that it’s way more complex than this. We should keep in mind that it’s more complex than just ‘northern Muslim impoverished uneducated forgotten north’ versus the ‘oil-rich, educated and entrepreneurial south.’ ” “The differences are very striking,” she said, “but from a political, ethnic, and social point of view, things are more intricate and codependent.”

More:

Corruption, abuses of power and efforts by interested parties — the government, the military, Boko Haram — to present different realities mean that nothing could be taken for what it seemed. Regular bombardment against Christians raised the question of whether it was caused by Boko Haram or just thugs; violent reprisals against Muslims further obscured clarity. The local police, and the government, on some levels, sometimes projected ambivalence in dealing with Boko Haram’s influence and destructive ways. Often, it wasn’t even clear who was more afraid of whom.

For those of you with simplistic misconceptions, the paper ends:

“In some instances, I just say, ‘I don’t understand.’ I’m not really upset with people who don’t really know Africa and who haven’t been here to challenge simplistic misconceptions, but that’s what [journalists] are here for. To raise questions can be more important than to find answers.”\

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/murky-circumstances-in-northern-nigeria/

It is certainly not as straightforward as you or the OP has put it. As intelligent people, we should really think deeper than 'muslims killing non-muslims". The Op opening raises good points but it is ultimately a shallow attempt to address a much deeper problem.

Parts of your post are largely incoherent, People are rapidly becoming muslim in the west and they are not been forced. This is in spite of negative publicity... As muslims, we can not change your hearts. What do you mean putting sanctity before humanity?? What muslim scholar have you spoken to, that has given you a bad interpretation of the Quran?? I have been a muslim all my life, read books of scholars and i do not know of the bad part 'depending on what you want to follow'. i have never met an 'extreme' muslim in my life. The mainstream muslims are your average joes, boring lives like everyone.

Let talk a little about humanity

Allah tells us Himself that human life is sacred(roughly translated):

Do not take life, which God has made sacred, except by right: if anyone is killed wrongfully, We have given authority to the defender of his rights, but he should not be excessive in taking life, for he is already aided [by God]. (Surah 17:33)

Here, Allah declares the sanctity of Human life, and only permits it when a crime such as murder is committed even then the option is given to the family on whether to carry out the punishment. This is in the case of murder...

So how sacred is human life? Allah says in the Quran (roughly translated):

On account of [his deed], We decreed to the Children of Israel that if anyone kills a person– unless in retribution for murder or spreading corruption in the land– it is as if he kills all mankind, while if any saves a life it is as if he saves the lives of all mankind. Our messengers came to them with clear signs, but many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. (Surah 5:32)

Allah relays to us a decree to the previous muslim nation that applies to us. Anyone who kills a person unjustly is as if he has killed the whole of humanity and anyone who saves a life has saved not only that life but the whole of humanity.

This is the weight of taking a person's life unjustly... And this is not only for muslims:

The Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Whoever kills a mu‘aahid (a non-Muslim living under Muslim rule) will not smell the fragrance of Paradise, although its fragrance may be detected from a distance of forty years.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2995

Anyone who kills non-muslim living in the land of the muslims will not smell the fragrance of pardise...

First of all,it was a retweet. Secondly, just like you are skilled enough to defend the indefensible in the Quran, I was really hoping you'd be smart enough to understand the context of the tweet. Maybe, I was expecting too much

You will have to present the indefensible first. It baffles me when people who have never read a book even in translation become authorities in it. I thought you were more intelligent that this, maybe i was expecting too much.

Whatever, the context of his retweet. A muslim would and should cringe at the thought of misrepresenting his prophet. He made a mistake and apologize so it is over.

Lol, so sensitivity is now an excuse. So I insult your God, and instead of simply ignoring me and moving on, let the 'illiterate Muslims' teach them a lesson while we keep shouting 'Islam is a religion of peace', abi?

I would ignore you but not everyone would. It is the truth. It is a fact of life. If someone insults your mother, you might ignore him. Another will punch the daylights out of him. Some might overstep the bounds. Islam is about limits an bounds in all we do..... I am held accountable for my action so is every other person.

Maybe, you should learn to respect what people believe. You can certainly have constructive debates without abuse.

I fail to see what bearing this has on the OP.
One question: IS THE SURVIVAL AND SANCTITY OF ISLAM, THE QURAN, ITS TENETS AND THE ARABIC LANGUAGE MORE IMPORTANT TO YOU THAN A PEACEFUL NIGERIA? If Islam were banned in Nigeria by GEJ, would you lead a revolt against the government?

Does that sound like a sensible thing to you?? Your question is unreasonable?

Let me be clear, My religion is more important than my nationality. My religion defines my purpose of life, My nationality is where i was born. If Islam is banned, the earth is spacious enough, i would move.

I want a peaceful Nigeria like everyone. It is the home of my fathers and the place i call home.

If i could take actions to change such a ban within the limits of Islam, i would.

There are tribalists in all corners of Nigeria. When non-muslims are killed, it's for RELIGIOUS not TRIBAL reasons. Please, understand this difference. STOP BLAMING government for the actions of a few misguided Muslims. Look inwards, because our government isn't going to get better any time soon.. should we then expect the death of more non-muslims?

As already shown, the problem is much deeper than that. It needs a deeper solution. The muslims have a part to play, fine. It is a much broader problem and should be dealt with as such.

Why would government not be blamed for it's failures?

This is from the Aljazeera study:

Under President Goodluck Jonathan, the Nigerian government has persistently used force to respond to the Boko Haram challenge despite growing evidence that security issues have strong socio-political overlay that continue to compromise the government’s ability to respond effectively. Aside from the reputed support given to the group by prominent northern politicians, the failure to directly address the root causes of the crisis bodes ill for any immediate solution. Reliance on military and police capabilities demonstrates state weakness and largely seems to exacerbate Boko Haram terrorism.

http://studies.aljazeera.net/en/reports/2012/07/20127316859987337.htm

It is clear that the government has failed in its duties. I am not a security personnel. We have seen muslims who speak against boko haram murdered in cold blood. It is the responsibility of the government not mine to ensure security. The president is responsible for the protection of lives and property of all Nigerians.

Again, the attempt to lay the blame solely on Islam is incredibly shallow.

Hehehehehe I open 2 comment nd wot I see is ''to avoid being banned,please ensure that ur post is not offensive to islam'' yo dat ish cracked me up
Well actually,this thread dosnt nid any further point-provin comment as all the sense making has gone wit d 1st 2 or is it 3pages y'all shud loosen up
Nd den finally d 'gentle' he or she hu delivered the above warnin shud hav bin less biased,wud hav bin nice 2 warn against any insults on any religion watsoever...duh dats d d.o.p.e ish bt maturity... *yawns* anyways swit me is still searchin 4 my beauty sleep nd since it hasn't arrived,I decided 2 stop by nd populate d thread Adios amigos

...

maclatunji:


On the point of the warning in this section, it was non-Muslims that schemed, whined and cried for it to be put here and Seun who isn't Muslim did. It is time to do a 360 degree turn and start speaking from both sides of your mouth.

Lol, and that had nothing do with your itch to ban anything remotely anti-Islam.. there were even complaints during the POTY nomination where fellow muslims accused you of slanting the rules to favor tBaba...
Smh...

tbaba1234:
Louder?? It is simple, they have bombs. That is what gets on the news.. Who is going to report a muslim helping out his community? That is not news, right?? Muslims from all works of life have condemned the actions of these groups and as far as i know, local imams have discussed these things in their sermons. Unless, you want muslims to take up arms to fight as well. Then, Why do we have a military?

Are you saying there's nothing more that Muslims can do to stop this irrationality propagating and snuffing our more innocent non-Muslims? That Muslims have done all they possibly can and it's now up to the government to deal with these rascals?

tbaba1234:
The wrong audience, well, for the most part. As far i know, there has not been any 'religious' conflict within my sphere of Influence. The same applies to most of the Nairaland muslims here. What is a muslim living in the south west, south east or south south going to do with this message? We know the conflict is localised mainly in North East Nigeria.

At the risk of sounding tribalistic, are you saying the problem isn't just Islam, it has to do more with the temperament of the North Easterners?

tbaba1234:
A problem does exist but like i said, it is not as black and white as you portray. There are muslims from other parts of the country who have been killed or almost killed in conflicts in the North. No discrimination goes on when the conflicts start. So it is not as simple as muslims killing non-muslims. If they do meet a muslim on the way, he is a goner as well.

Read previous question...
And yeah, I completely agree that the government has proven over time that it's quite inept at solving the various security issues every form of revolt, be it religious or not have posed. All I'm saying is that when citizens turn on fellow citizens in the name of Allah, then it logically follows that Islam itself will be the focus of much scrutiny. Most of you should stop seeing this as an unwarranted attack.

tbaba1234:
I did not just list those things. Look at these studies

First from Aljazeera:

Despite attacks on churches, Christians are not the only targets of Boko Haram assaults. Boko Haram adherents privilege a version of Islam that regards as transgressors those who do not abide strictly to the teachings of Allah. The net effect is that faithful Muslims are often targets of its wrath. For instance, it assassinated Sheikh Ibrahim Ahmed, a critic of the sect at Gomari Mosque in Maiduguri. According to Hussein Solomon,Senior Professor in Department of Political Science at the University of the Free State in South Africa, Sheikh Ibrahim’s assassination was a clear message to other Imams that the only credible interpretation of the Qur'an is the Islamist one. Also, on 13 July 2012, a Boko Haram suicide bomber attempted to kill two prominent Muslims -- the Shehu of Borno and the state’s deputy governor -- as they completed their Friday prayer. Both men escaped but ten of Muslims lost their lives.[/b]19 For Boko Haram, Nigeria’s national and state governments are run by non-believers. As such, Muslim political elites stand condemned for their cooperation with their Christian counterparts.


There's more:

Abimbola Adesoji, Lecturer at the Department of History at Obafemi Awolowo University in Nigeria, has shown that [b]various underlying factors such as economic disequilibrium, envy, pervasive poverty and rampant unemployment render many youths willing tools in the hands of patrons. This assertion is corroborated by the fact that states most susceptible to religious violence and terrorism are those that are “poorer, unstable, and have a chronic history of violence.” As argued by Jonnie Carson, current U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs, Boko Haram thrives on “popular frustrations with leaders, poor government service delivery, and the deteriorating living conditions of many northerners. Boko Haram seeks to humiliate and undermine the government and to exploit religious differences in order to create chaos and to make Nigeria ungovernable.”

http://studies.aljazeera.net/en/reports/2012/07/20127316859987337.htm

Like the paper said: This assertion is corroborated by the fact that states most susceptible to religious violence and terrorism are those that are “poorer, unstable, and have a chronic history of violence.”

various underlying factors such as economic disequilibrium, envy, pervasive poverty and rampant unemployment render many youths willing tools in the hands of patrons

Boko Haram thrives on “popular frustrations with leaders, poor government service delivery, and the deteriorating living conditions of many northerners.

See, it is not as straight forward as you want to paint it. It is a complex situation. And those factors all contribute to the violence in certain parts of Nigeria.

I completely agree..

tbaba1234:
More Interesting reading for you: This is from New York times Matt mccann in his paper: Looking at the Tangled Roots of Violence in Northern Nigeria

Skeptical of the easy binaries of “north vs. south,” “Islam vs. Christianity,” rich and poor — as the conflict is conventionally presented in many news outlets — Ms. Kurzen, on several trips to Nigeria beginning in April 2011, sought to reveal an intricate underlying set of circumstances. “It’s a convenient divide — it makes things a bit more readable,” said Ms. Kurzen, 32, “but the reality is that it’s way more complex than this. We should keep in mind that it’s more complex than just ‘northern Muslim impoverished uneducated forgotten north’ versus the ‘oil-rich, educated and entrepreneurial south.’ ” “The differences are very striking,” she said, “but from a political, ethnic, and social point of view, things are more intricate and codependent.”

More:

Corruption, abuses of power and efforts by interested parties — the government, the military, Boko Haram — to present different realities mean that nothing could be taken for what it seemed. Regular bombardment against Christians raised the question of whether it was caused by Boko Haram or just thugs; violent reprisals against Muslims further obscured clarity. The local police, and the government, on some levels, sometimes projected ambivalence in dealing with Boko Haram’s influence and destructive ways. Often, it wasn’t even clear who was more afraid of whom.

For those of you with simplistic misconceptions, the paper ends:

“In some instances, I just say, ‘I don’t understand.’ I’m not really upset with people who don’t really know Africa and who haven’t been here to challenge simplistic misconceptions, but that’s what [journalists] are here for. To raise questions can be more important than to find answers.”\

http://lens.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/23/murky-circumstances-in-northern-nigeria/

Indeed..

tbaba1234:
Let me be clear, My religion is more important than my nationality. My religion defines my purpose of life, My nationality is where i was born. If Islam is banned, the earth is spacious enough, i would move.

Finally... Now tell this to a Muslim illiterate on the street. Tell him that his religion is more important than his nationality, and see what he makes of it.

tbaba1234:
I want a peaceful Nigeria like everyone. It is the home of my fathers and the place i call home.
If i could take actions to change such a ban within the limits of Islam, i would.

We all do. But if everyone had the ideology that Their religion is more important that NATIONALITY, it would set a dangerous trend. We would seize to be a nation.

Sorry, I didn't address a lot of your post. I'm quite short on time. I sincerely hope Islam in Nigeria begins to be associated with the actions of its peaceful majority rather than its bomb-throwing minority.

Final word: Subjective religious beliefs should NEVER be put above OBJECTIVE NATIONAL IDEALS if that Nation is to remain one. I rest my case...

Hello Nairalanders!

Love , Peace & Unity are what we needs to live by.
My Lord Jesus commanded us to love our neighbours as ourselve and to live in peace with one another.
This is best and exemplary way to live on earth.
Christ lifestyle is what we should emulate.

Good day!

Thanks.
Olatomiwa Martins.

Are you saying there's nothing more that Muslims can do to stop this irrationality propagating and snuffing our more innocent non-Muslims? That Muslims have done all they possibly can and it's now up to the government to deal with these rascals?

At the risk of sounding tribalistic, are you saying the problem isn't just Islam, it has to do more with the temperament of the North Easterners?

Read previous question...
And yeah, I completely agree that the government has proven over time that it's quite inept at solving the various security issues every form of revolt, be it religious or not have posed. All I'm saying is that when citizens turn on fellow citizens in the name of Allah, then it logically follows that Islam itself will be the focus of much scrutiny. Most of you should stop seeing this as an unwarranted attack.

Let's be clear. The problem is not islam at all or even the temperament of parts of the north. It lies with certain groups of people, not the faith. Learn to tell the difference. Islam is perfect, muslims are not.

There is always more that can be done but i reject the notion which you guys have come here to perpetuate. Like i pointed out, the train of thought here is shallow. It is simple. The OP raised valid points but it is still a long way from facing the actual problem. The solutions proposed can only address the surface.

You are correct and scrutiny is fine. I welcome questions but at least be balanced and fair.

I completely agree..

Good to see that is cleared up

Finally... Now tell this to a Muslim illiterate on the street. Tell him that his religion is more important than his nationality, and see what he makes of it.

It is simply a matter of priorities. The greater human objective (purpose of existence) over a lesser one (nationality). Even an 'illiterate' can understand that. As a muslim, you must obey the laws of the land and try to be of benefit to your community so it should actually make you a more productive citizen.

We all do. But if everyone had the ideology that Their religion is more important that NATIONALITY, it would set a dangerous trend. We would seize to be a nation.

I leave with one last statement: Subjective religious beliefs should NEVER be put above OBJECTIVE NATIONAL IDEALS if that Nation is to remain one. I rest my case...

For many, it is already the case. Ideally, a practising muslim should make a better citizen of any state. He would be a better friend, neighbour, administrator, son and father. He would be adverse to the kind of corruption and tribalism plaguing the country when serving in a position of power.

As muslims, we have objective reasons to believe in God and believe that the Quran is beyond the productive capacity of human beings. It defines our purpose for existence as human beings first and foremost.

We are human beings first before any nationalistic ideal. And observing the first purpose should make you a better Nigerian and actually foster unity amongst tribes. Look at the artificial differences created by drawn-up lines as a result of nationalism. Understanding your humanity first is a very important step.

I leave you with the words of the noble prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessing of Allah be Upon him) over 1400 years ago:

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action (

maclatunji:

*Yawns*

So I take it you agree.

maclatunji:

*Yawns*

Lol

musKeeto:
Lol, and that had nothing do with your itch to ban anything remotely anti-Islam.. there were even complaints during the POTY nomination where fellow muslims accused you of slanting the rules to favor tBaba...
Smh...

You shouldn't believe everything your boss tell, no one made such allegations, and like JeSoul said poster would make claims that suit their itch . . . As usual you atheists spread rumors that reflects idleness in every sense of the word!

Page six of this thread houses the best of comments.
Thank you Mayowaak!,
Thank you Modicum!
Thumbs up Tbaba!

musKeeto:
Lol, and that had nothing do with your itch to ban anything remotely anti-Islam.. there were even complaints during the POTY nomination where fellow muslims accused you of slanting the rules to favor tBaba...
Smh...

I said it- Ye will speak from both sides of thy mouth.

tbaba1234:
Let's be clear. The problem is not islam at all or even the temperament of parts of the north. It lies with certain groups of people, not the faith. Learn to tell the difference. Islam is perfect, muslims are not.

Yet again, you fail to understand that the OP wasn't addressing Islam but Muslims. It says so in his OP. By this, you accept that he was addressing the 'imperfect' muslims. You should learn to tell the difference.

tbaba1234:
There is always more that can be done but i reject the notion which you guys have come here to perpetuate. Like i pointed out, the train of thought here is shallow. It is simple. The OP raised valid points but it is still a long way from facing the actual problem. The solutions proposed can only address the surface.

Let's not be vauge. WHAT NOTIONS did the OP perpetuate are you rejecting?

tbaba1234:
You are correct and scrutiny is fine. I welcome questions but at least be balanced and fair.

I try as much as possible to, to be honest.

tbaba1234:
It is simply a matter of priorities. The greater human objective (purpose of existence) over a lesser one (nationality). Even an 'illiterate' can understand that. As a muslim, you must obey the laws of the land and try to be of benefit to your community so it should actually make you a more productive citizen.

You have to agree that sometimes, religion tends to obscure that, Christianity is also complicit in this regard.

tbaba1234:
For many, it is already the case. Ideally, a practising muslim should make a better citizen of any state. He would be a better friend, neighbour, administrator, son and father. He would be adverse to the kind of corruption and tribalism plaguing the country when serving in a position of power.

Replace 'muslim' with any other religion, and the above statement would still make sense to its adherents. Every 'good' human should be adverse to these ills irregardless of their beliefs or non-beliefs.

tbaba1234:
As muslims, we have objective reasons to believe in God and believe that the Quran is beyond the productive capacity of human beings. It defines our purpose for existence as human beings first and foremost.
We are human beings first before any nationalistic ideal. And observing the first purpose should make you a better Nigerian and actually foster unity amongst tribes. Look at the artificial differences created by drawn-up lines as a result of nationalism. Understanding your humanity first is a very important step.
I leave you with the words of the noble prophet Muhammad (Peace and blessing of Allah be Upon him) over 1400 years ago:

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action

Keep up the good work on NL. I hope every Muslim one day reflects your maturity, composure and intelligence. Let's agree to disagree on the Islam matter.. how una dey talk God bless you for Islam?