I have often wondered why we put our faith in doctors even though they are very similar to pastors.
What brought about this faith? We have proofs everyday of doctors misdiagnosing and even prescribing drugs they know little about. They just trust what the pharmaceutical companies tell them, just as pastors trust what the bible tells them. But we still believe in whatever they tell us and swallow chemicals everyday just because a doctor said so. How are we different from people that go hungry all day because a pastor told them to?

You must be referring to quack doctors in your part of the world. Where am based i have nothing to fear and can put my total faith in properly qualified Doctors. But don't put your faith in Pastors here dude a Pastor in Peckham told a few of his HIV members to ignore their doctors and forfeit their HIV drugs and rely on his prayers, well i don't need to mention what eventually happened

Doctors are professionals in their field of treating people and they've spent quite a number of years practicing but a pastor has spent most of his time reading scriptures and the likes. This shouldn't be a question its simple reasoning

manmustwac: You must be referring to quack doctors in your part of the world. Where am based i have nothing to fear and can put my total faith in properly qualified Doctors. But don't put your faith in Pastors here dude a Pastor in Peckham told a few of his HIV members to ignore their doctors and forfeit their HIV drugs and rely on his prayers, well i don't need to mention what eventually happened

dont you also think you are referring to scam or fake pastors? Do you for the mere fact that you see qualified on the doctors paper put your faith in his paper ability to cure you? My brother, your perception must be revolving round fake scam pastors.

Chubhie: dont you also think you are refering to scam or fake pastors?

No Pastors have supernatural powers or the ability to heal their members they are all scam as far as am concerned, they're just ordinary people like you and me but just talented actors and gifted when it comes to preaching

ULSHERLAN: Doctors are professionals in their field of treating people and they've spent quite a number of years practicing but a pastor has spent most of his time reading scriptures and the likes. This shouldn't be a question its simple reasoning

Pastors can also be called professionals in their own fields. And you know that many people rely unquestioningly on pastors for a lot of things. We atheists also rely on doctors unquestioningly in medical matters. Even when their prescriptions don't work, we still go back to them. What makes us different from the christians?

manmustwac: No Pastors have supernatural powers or the ability to heal their members they are all scam as far as am concerned, they're just ordinary people like you and me but just talented actors and gifted when it comes to preaching

Do you believe in placebo effects?

Religion is a scam.

manmustwac: No Pastors have supernatural powers or the ability to heal their members they are all scam as far as am concerned, they're just ordinary people like you and me but just talented actors and gifted when it comes to preaching

i understand that organized religion is a scam. Do you believe there exists a physical and metaphysical worlds?

advocate666:

Pastors can also be called professionals in their own fields. And you know that many people rely unquestioningly on pastors for a lot of things. We atheists also rely on doctors unquestioningly in medical matters. Even when their prescriptions don't work, we still go back to them. What makes us different from the christians?

Are you having doubts in atheism?

advocate666:

Pastors can also be called professionals in their own fields. And you know that many people rely unquestioningly on pastors for a lot of things. We atheists also rely on doctors unquestioningly in medical matters. Even when their prescriptions don't work, we still go back to them. What makes us different from the christians?

Good question.

Chubhie: i understand that organized religion is a scam. Do you believe there exists a physical and metaphysical worlds?

Don't really understand your question

advocate666: I have often wondered why we put our faith in doctors even though they are very similar to pastors.
What brought about this faith? We have proofs everyday of doctors misdiagnosing and even prescribing drugs they know little about. They just trust what the pharmaceutical companies tell them, just as pastors trust what the bible tells them. But we still believe in whatever they tell us and swallow chemicals everyday just because a doctor said so. How are we different from people that go hungry all day because a pastor told them to?

This is a serious error in thinking about faith. What one demonstrates towards their doctors isn't religious faith, but a sort of trust based on
past experience and knowledge of the fact that they have the sort of training necessary to treat you. But pastors' prayers fail often and they don't really have any special training in treating people. Sure doctors make mistakes, they're human but when compared to their successes, you'll notice that doctors are generally right more than 50% of the time with all their limitations but pastors with God on their side seem to fail a lot. Unless they're faced with trivial issues.

manmustwac: Don't really understand your question

you are an atheists right? You doubt all things that go beyond logic or metaphysical? You care to lemme know why you chose this path?

thehomer:

This is a serious error in thinking about faith. What one demonstrates towards their doctors isn't religious faith, but a sort of trust based on
past experience and knowledge of the fact that they have the sort of training necessary to treat you. But pastors' prayers fail often and they don't really have any special training in treating people. Sure doctors make mistakes, they're human but when compared to their successes, you'll notice that doctors are generally right more than 50% of the time with all their limitations but pastors with God on their side seem to fail a lot. Unless they're faced with trivial issues.

my brother, you said that your doctors make mistakes and should be forgiven even when such mistakes lead to death becouse they are humans and prone to such On the level of success, you said docs are 50% right?? Thats 50% failure right? For you,pastors prayers fail often cos they dont have any special trainning and yet your docs that are professional in their fields have 50% failure rate Even if the docs sucess rate is 99% why put 'medical' faith in something thats not hunderd percent when lives are at stake?

Bélla3: Are you having doubts in atheism?

Not at all.
We atheists ask questions and challenge our thinking all the time. That is how we learn. That is how we function.

advocate666:

Not at all.
We atheists ask questions and challenge our thinking all the time. That is how we learn. That is how we function.

A million likes...

advocate666: I have often wondered why we put our faith in doctors even though they are very similar to pastors.
What brought about this faith? We have proofs everyday of doctors misdiagnosing and even prescribing drugs they know little about. They just trust what the pharmaceutical companies tell them, just as pastors trust what the bible tells them. But we still believe in whatever they tell us and swallow chemicals everyday just because a doctor said so. How are we different from people that go hungry all day because a pastor told them to?

Pastors Pray, hope, and wait

Doctors actually do something

advocate666:

Not at all.
We atheists ask questions and challenge our thinking all the time. That is how we learn. That is how we function.

Nice! Erm... Christians ask questions too.

Bélla3: Nice! Erm... Christians ask questions too.

Yea.. but you guys stop there.. it continues to say "challenge our thinking all the time"

Area_boy:

Yea.. but you guys stop there.. it continues to say "challenge our thinking all the time"

Yeah... Christians challenge thinking too. There are many christians who went through the 'cleansing' phase in atheism or satanism...

Chubhie: my brother, you said that your doctors make mistakes and should be forgiven even when such mistakes lead to death becouse they are humans and prone to such

No I didn't say that. In fact, some mistakes aren't forgiven. That is why there's a justice system and medical ethics committee that looks into these sorts of cases.

Chubhie:
On the level of success, you said docs are 50% right??Thats 50% failure right?

I didn't say that either. I said they're generally right more than 50% of the time.

Chubhie:
For you,pastors prayers fail often cos they dont have any special trainning and yet your docs that are professional in their fields have 50% failure rate

I didn't say this too. I said their prayers fail and that they don't have any special training. I didn't say one caused the other. Please don't put words into my mouth.

Chubhie:
Even if the docs sucess rate is 99% why put 'medical' faith in something thats not hunderd percent when lives are at stake?

If the success rate were 99% (which it is in some cases), where else would you place your trust? I hope you're aware that people die everyday whether or not some pastors pray but you can be sure that more people will die if those medical professionals were to close up shop. What system do you know that assures you of 100% success even when lives are at stake? Is it the pastors prayer that will fail? Or is it relying on God who has already designed the world to kill you? Or is it the medical professional who has made it his duty to save lives to the best of their abilities?

You should also slow down and read what I've actually said so your responses would be more relevant.

advocate666:

Do you believe in placebo effects?

Yes I do

manmustwac: Yes I do

So, don't you think that the "holy water" or "annointing oil" of some pastors actually have some placebo healing effects on their members? You have to note that mosts placebos work depending on the faith the receiver places on the giver.

It boils down to the scientific method.

You know a doctors methods are based on the scientific method, while those of a priest are based on blind faith. By their very nature the priests recommendations are based on chance. The doctors? no.

Despite this, you still don't put 100 percent faith in the doctor, or even the scientific method, but it's by far and away the most practical way to resolve whatever the problem is. If problems persist, you start to question the doctor, get a second opinion from other doctors, verify his background, asses whatever his diagnosis is, etc etc. Or you can even do all this from the onset, but that wouldn't be too practical in most situations.

So all this is just being practical, with the pastor? No, not so much.

Tldr; Blind chance vs the scientific method.

advocate666:

So, don't you think that the "holy water" or "annointing oil" of some pastors actually have some placebo healing effects on their members? You have to note that mosts placebos work depending on the faith the receiver places on the giver.

Ok let me just agree with you. Yes i do believe in the placebo effect as described by you but then all those miracles you see them performing on stage in front of TV audience are all STAGED! Also Doctors can administer medicine to their patients with the same effect even you and i should be able to do the same thing in the right circumstances

manmustwac: Ok let me just agree with you. Yes i do believe in the placebo effect as described by you but then all those miracles you see them performing on stage in front of TV audience are all STAGED! Also Doctors can administer medicine to their patients with the same effect even you and i should be able to do the same thing in the right circumstances

Yes, the TV shows are staged. Many medecines also work by some known processes. These are not disputed. What I am trying to get at is this: when you are not feeling well, you do not self-medicate. You go and see another man and beleive what this man tells you. You apply the remedies this man gives you; sometimes to your detriment. You do not know how this remedy came about but you trust in the trainning and process this man used to arrive at the conclusion that his prescription is the best thing for your ailment.
Here is the thing. Somehow, his "remedy" works, even when it shouldn't (placebo). Your trust now becomes almost total. This is what happens with doctors (placebo and homeopathy). This is what is happening with pastors and christians.
So, should we discard the placebo effects of things in our lives because there is no scientific proof?