murtalaa: @Poster

If you think you will get a pat from these bigots on NL you are sadly mistaken. You will never get anything short of ridicule. let me tell you why you should be proud of your Arabic name: 1. Our beloved prophet was an Arab 2. Qur'an was revealed in Arabic 3. Arabic would be the language of the hereafter.If you don't find these reasons enough to be proud of your Arabic name then you have no besiness identifying yourself as muslim. When people mistake you for hausa, does that implies that you are loosing your identity to Arab? when have Hausas become Arabs?

may Allah reward u wit good. This is d angle I have been wanting him to look at. May Allah let him c it bfor its late

It would have been more lovely compared to what we are losing to The West(Europe and America).

To avoid being banned, please ensure that your post is not offensive to Islam.What is offensive to islam?

justaqad:

Abraham and Jesus submitted to the will of ALLAH.thats the prime for being a muslim.

You are contradicting yourselves
So you do NOT have to even KNOW about the prophet Mohammed to be a muslim ?

maclatunji:

If you lived and died before him, your answer is a big no. Topic for another thread. In fact, over-debated on this website already.

this was your answer to the question whether you need to accept that Muhammed is THE prophet ...... thereabouts



my response to this is to ask, what is then the basis of the kalimaatuul Shaadah? (sorry dont exactly know the proper spelling)?

Are you saying that one can be a muslim without believing, accepting and proclaiming, "Lailah il allahu, muhammadu rasullilahi, salallhu aleim waa'salaam"

forgive my spellings, im quite rusty nowadays.


seems Islam has moved on a bit from when last i studied it


aha, now i remember, @murtala has jogged my memory

the preachers claimed that Arabic would be the language of aljannah, angels only spoke arabic etc etc.


i dont know about you man, but all the Arabic in the world will not convert a Chinese man to an Arab.
what that implies is that Al jannah is designed and purpose built for Arabs, apparently the "naturalized by remote learning" ones will try to get in too.

4llerbuntu:
i dont know about you man, but all the Arabic in the world will not convert a Chinese man to an Arab.
what that implies is that Al jannah is designed and purpose built for Arabs, apparently the "naturalized by remote learning" ones will try to get in too.

Never say never

Why a Former Buddhist Christian accepted Islam

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvCU-4TE-ec

Many muslims try to extend the term BELIEVER to mean ONLY muslims.

Then extend this argument to mean Abraham must have been a muslim.The difficulty for them is Abraham died before Muhammad so if Abraham was a muslim that means it is possible to be a muslim without even knowing about Muhammad

hadbak: may Allah reward u wit good. This is d angle I have been wanting him to look at. May Allah let him c it bfor its late

you are only looking without seeing.

murtalaa:

If you think you will get a pat from these bigots on NL you are sadly mistaken. You will never get anything short of ridicule. let me tell you why you should be proud of your Arabic name: 1. Our beloved prophet was an Arab

i am oruba.no amount of arabic will make me arab.

hadbak:
2. Qur'an was revealed in Arabic

i did not say otherwise

hadbak:
3. Arabic would be the language of the hereafter.If you don't find these reasons enough to be proud of your Arabic name then you have no besiness identifying yourself as muslim. When people mistake you for hausa, does that implies that you are loosing your identity to Arab? when have Hausas become Arabs?

stop painting ALLAh arab. can you back up your claim with the quran?

i wonder the way most muslims reason. wel the reason is not far fetched. ........

aribisala0: Many muslims try to extend the term BELIEVER to mean ONLY muslims.

Then extend this argument to mean Abraham must have been a muslim.The difficulty for them is Abraham died before Muhammad so if Abraham was a muslim that means it is possible to be a muslim without even knowing about Muhammad

that is another dogma. this is the correct testimony as sanctioned by ALLAH

Verse 3:18 states the First Pillar of Islam (Submission):

"God bears witness that there is no other god besides Him, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge."

شَهِدَ اللّهُ أَنَّهُ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَالْمَلاَئِكَةُ وَأُوْلُواْ الْعِلْمِ قَآئِمَاً بِالْقِسْطِ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

aribisala0: Many muslims try to extend the term BELIEVER to mean ONLY muslims.

Then extend this argument to mean Abraham must have been a muslim.The difficulty for them is Abraham died before Muhammad so if Abraham was a muslim that means it is possible to be a muslim without even knowing about Muhammad

@bolded, absolutely! If you lived and died before him becoming Prophet.

maclatunji:

@bolded, absolutely! If you lived and died before him becoming Prophet.

So the moment he became a prophet any other Believer any where on the Planet had to change their GOD BROWSER or was there a changeover period ??

justaqad:
what you think of me does not affect me. admiring someones zeal is not a crime or is it? vedaxcool was being deceitful,and i did not call him a hypocrite.
Good
there's no justification my friend.stop looking for excuses.
Muhammad was taunted more,yet he did not kill. what makes you feel you can protect islam better than ALLAH?
Good.

So you are happy to declare that if Christians insult the Prophet, women will become widows. When you are given evidence to the contrary, you go into denial
On page 12 of this thread is the declaration by @alomoh that somebody wrote a book to insult the Prophet (PBUH) and Allah
That is a book enthusiastically recommended by Christians to themselves
You kept quiet about it. Muslims should just accept your statement in the face of evidence to the contrary

Your hatred for Islam should not stop you, out of self respect, from admitting the truth

Like the dua in Tabarani


"Oh Allah, I seek refuge in you from ...............
my neighbour.....
such that if he sees something good, he buries it,
and if he sees something bad he spreads it"

aribisala0:
You are contradicting yourselves
So you do NOT have to even KNOW about the prophet Mohammed to be a muslim ?

this is the correct shahadah. prophet Muhammad (saw) was not he first muslim

Verse 3:18 states the First Pillar of Islam (Submission):

"God bears witness that there is no other god besides Him, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge."

شَهِدَ اللّهُ أَنَّهُ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَالْمَلاَئِكَةُ وَأُوْلُواْ الْعِلْمِ قَآئِمَاً بِالْقِسْطِ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

justaqad:

that is another dogma. this is the correct testimony as sanctioned by ALLAH

Verse 3:18 states the First Pillar of Islam (Submission):

"God bears witness that there is no other god besides Him, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge."

شَهِدَ اللّهُ أَنَّهُ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَالْمَلاَئِكَةُ وَأُوْلُواْ الْعِلْمِ قَآئِمَاً بِالْقِسْطِ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

Your post has nothing to do with my post.It is irrelevant totally.Please read carefully what I said . The question is not whether submission to Allah is a pillar of Islam but can one submit and be something else that is not a muslim Like a Jew or Sabaen or Even Abraham .

The prophet kept company of men who were Jews did he not?

2.62
Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabians - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. (62)

BetaThings:

So you are happy to declare that if Christians insult the Prophet, women will become widows. When you are given evidence to the contrary, you go into denial

the best approach is to let them know where and how they are erring.prophet Muhammad was taunted more, yet he refrained from violence.unlike some muslims today who would go on killing spree when islam is insulted.that was not the approach of the holy prophet.

BetaThings:
On page 12 of this thread is the declaration by @alomoh that somebody wrote a book to insult the Prophet (PBUH) and Allah
That is a book enthusiastically recommended by Christians to themselves

why should it hurt you when its all lies. years ago americans were told lies about islam,as time unfolds they found out the truth.approach them polite despite the mockery.

BetaThings:
You kept quiet about it. Muslims should just accept your statement in the face of evidence to the contrary

ALLAH knows best

BetaThings:
Your [b]hatred for Islam should not stop you, out of self respect, from admitting the truth[/b]

i laugh at the bolded. because it is a blatant lie. ALLAH knows best

BetaThings:
Like the dua in Tabarani


"Oh Allah, I seek refuge in you from ...............
my neighbour.....
such that if he sees something good, he buries it,
and if he sees something bad he spreads it"

AMEEN.

aribisala0:
Your post has nothing to do with my post.It is irrelevant totally.Please read carefully what I said . The question is not whether submission to Allah is a pillar of Islam but can one submit and be something else that is not a muslim Like a Jew or Sabaen or Even Abraham .

The prophet kept company of men who were Jews did he not?

you said this

aribisala:
Many muslims try to extend the term BELIEVER to mean ONLY muslims.

Then extend this argument to mean Abraham must have been a muslim.The difficulty for them is Abraham died before Muhammad so if Abraham was a muslim that means it is possible to be a muslim without even knowing about Muhammad

and i said

justaqad:

that is another dogma. this is the correct testimony as sanctioned by ALLAH

Verse 3:18 states the First Pillar of Islam (Submission):

"God bears witness that there is no other god besides Him, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge."

شَهِدَ اللّهُ أَنَّهُ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَالْمَلاَئِكَةُ وَأُوْلُواْ الْعِلْمِ قَآئِمَاً بِالْقِسْطِ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

aribisala0: So the moment he became a prophet any other Believer any where on the Planet had to change their GOD BROWSER or was there a changeover period ??

Not exactly as simplistic as you want to put it. However, every individual who comes across the message is duty bound to research it. There will be no excuse for "lack of knowledge" if you know Islam exists and never bothered to research it independently. It is on record that the Prophet (SAW) wrote letters to leaders of the known world during his time explaining the details of Islam and how and why they should accept it.

It is this marketing strategy of the completed form of Islam that helped it spread faster than any other religion you can think of.

The largest celebration in Islam is Eid-ul-Adha and it his practically 100% about Abraham and Ishmael, nobody would bother much about the event other than narrate it in stories had God not made it an essential part of what Prophet Muhammad's message was and it becomes incumbent on most Muslims (those who can afford it) to slaughter Rams on the date of its commomeration.

There is no other religious text that venerates all the other Prophets (PBUT) like Islam does, why? We see no difference between us except for the evolution of Islam through the ages. However, there is one constant factor that cannot be questioned in the slightest amongst all of them. The uncompromising belief in the oneness of God as being our creator and being All-powerful with everything else subservient to him.

justaqad:

you said this



and i said

So how does that deal with what I said ? surely in some recess in your mind maybe.
I do not get your point AT ALL and fail to see the link

aribisala0:
So how does that deal with what I said ? surely in some recess in your mind maybe.
I do not get your point AT ALL and fail to see the link

now lets do this slowly. you said

aribisala0:
Many muslims try to extend the term BELIEVER to mean ONLY muslims.

Then extend this argument to mean Abraham must have been a muslim.The difficulty for them is [b]Abraham died before Muhammad so if Abraham was a muslim that means it is possible to be a muslim without even knowing about Muhammad

now this is where i come in. i am trying to let you understand that, to be a muslim,you must believe in the oneness of ALLAH, which Abraham did.so he was a muslim even without knowing prophet Muhammad (saw)

maclatunji:

Not exactly as simplistic as you want to put it. However, every individual who comes across the message is duty bound to research it. There will be no excuse for "lack of knowledge" if you know Islam exists and never bothered to research it independently. It is on record that the Prophet (SAW) wrote letters to leaders of the known world during his time explaining the details of Islam and how and why they should accept it.

It is this marketing strategy of the completed form of Islam that helped it spread faster than any other religion you can think of.

The largest celebration in Islam is Eid-ul-Adha and it his practically 100% about Abraham and Ishmael, nobody would bother much about the event other than narrate it in stories had God not made it an essential part of what Prophet Muhammad's message was and it becomes incumbent on most Muslims (those who can afford it) to slaughter Rams on the date of its commomeration.

There is no other religious text that venerates all the other Prophets (PBUT) like Islam does, why? We see no difference between us except for the evolution of Islam through the ages. However, there is one constant factor that cannot be questioned in the slightest amongst all of them. The uncompromising belief in the oneness of God as being our creator and being All-powerful with everything else subservient to him.

,

1. Are muslims duty bound to read the Psalms and the Torah and the Gospel having come across their mention so many times in the Quran.

2.It is on which record that he wrote letters.Please share that record with us

3The uncompromising belief in the oneness of God as being our creator and being All-powerful with everything else subservient to him. Your words) has been around and practised long before Muhammad by people who do NOT and never claimed to be muslims.My point is this belief is not exclusive to Islam or moslems and indeed predates it.It is disingenuous to then say it is an exclusive thing of muslims. A person who practises this is HANIF and NOT NECESSARILY "MUSLIM"
4. The only addition I see is the acknowledgement of Muhammad as a messenger and are muslims now being to say like Christians that if one does not acknowledge Muhammad he cannot be HANIF
5. Finally are Sikhs believers?

justaqad:

now lets do this slowly. you said


now this is where i come in. i am trying to let you understand that, to be a muslim,you must believe in the oneness of ALLAH, which Abraham did.so he was a muslim even without knowing prophet Muhammad (saw)

That is absolute rubbish . Abraham was Hanif and was referred to as a "believer" What you are trying to say is any who person accepted God almighty and submitted to him by definition is muslim. This is wrong and unsustainable. There is no where in the Quran where Abraham was called a muslim. None.

In fact the Quran goes on to argue that Abraham could not be a Jew nor a Christian because the Torah and Gospel were revealed AFTER him.

3 : 65-67
O People of the Scripture! Why will ye argue about Abraham, when the Torah and the Gospel were not revealed till after him? Have ye then no sense? (65) Lo! ye are those who argue about that whereof ye have some knowledge: Why then argue ye concerning that whereof ye have no knowledge? Allah knoweth. Ye know not. (66) Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.

The Quran acknowledges that the Gospel and Torah were from God so those who followed those were Believers but NOT muslims.

2.62

Lo! Those who believe (in that which is revealed unto thee, Muhammad), and those who are Jews, and Christians, and Sabians - whoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - surely their reward is with their Lord, and there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve. (62)

How then can Abraham be a Muslim when the Quran TOO was revealed after him.
I have already posted the Suras on this thread.

In summary according to the Quran a believer may be a Jew,Christian,Sabaean or Muslim. Whati s key is that they Surrender to Allah .What distinguishes Muslims is acknowledging Muhammad

alomoh: Allah does not Speak any other Language yet he is said to be all knowing. what kind of Allah will impose Arab to English speaking countries or French speaking countries? The fact that Arabs want others to speak their murderous Language shows how unenlightened Islamic Allah is, unfortunately he even gets professors to follow him. GJO moshay in His Who is this allah finished the Muslims, exposed allah and Muslim are still deceived to follow a man who copied passages from the Bible, Lied that Koran was handed by angel, Defiled children assault people, orders his followers to kill and maim his handiwork as if he were weak himself to kill them. wrote several contradiction with a bad use of language helped by unenlightened translators to make incoherent English translation of koran and made several offenders handicapped, instructed promiscuity and abuse of women and several other vices that allah followers allows, What manner of allah is this?

These are quotes from the Bible. Show me where the Qur'an has plagiarised the Bible
The Bible has finished Christianity

Exodus 31 : 17
It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed

Qur'an 50: 38
And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness

Genesis 32:28
“Your name will no longer be Jacob,” the man told him. “From now on you will be called Israel,* because you have fought with God and with men and have won.”

Quran 85 : 13 - 16
Indeed, it is He who originates [creation] and repeats.
And He is the Forgiving, the Affectionate
Honorable Owner of the Throne
Doer of what He intends

BetaThings:

These are quotes from the Bible. Show me where the Qur'an has plagiarised the Bible
The Bible has finished Christianity

Exodus 31 : 17
It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed

Qur'an 50: 38
And We did certainly create the heavens and earth and what is between them in six days, and there touched Us no weariness

Genesis 32:28
“Your name will no longer be Jacob,” the man told him. “From now on you will be called Israel,* because you have fought with God and with men and have won.”

Quran 85 : 13 - 16
Indeed, it is He who originates [creation] and repeats.
And He is the Forgiving, the Affectionate
Honorable Owner of the Throne
Doer of what He intends

well said

justaqad:
why should it hurt you when its all lies. years ago americans were told lies about islam,as time unfolds they found out the truth.approach them polite despite the mockery.

I see. You support CAN getting angry. I do too. And they are now saying next time El Rufai safety will not be guaranteed. You don't censure them for that possible recourse to violence
But you don't want me to get angry at insults on the Prophet (PBUH) even if I don't intend to fight over the matter
Whether true or not, EVERY muslim MUST get angry at insults to the Prophet (PBUH)
Of course non-muslims don't know why

I am yet to see any normal human being who does not get angry when his parents are abused.
So what is the status of the Prophet (PBUH) vis-a-vis our parents?

justaqad:
i laugh at the bolded. because it is a blatant lie. ALLAH knows best

I stand by it nevertheless
At least see how you stoutly defend your friends in the hatred against Islam

justaqad:
most muslims despise non-muslims.
you dont need lectures on this

Convinced muslim, defender of non-muslims!!!!!
I don't despise you, but I find your antics distasteful

BetaThings:

I see. You support CAN getting angry. I do too. And they are now saying next time El Rufai safety will not be guaranteed. You don't censure them for that possible recourse to violence

are you insinuating el-rufai would err the second time?

BetaThings:
Whether true or not, EVERY muslim MUST get angry at insults to the Prophet (PBUH)
Of course non-muslims don't know why

of course,but it is mandatory to control your temper.

BetaThings:
I am yet to see any normal human being who does not get angry when his parents are abused.
So what is the status of the Prophet (PBUH) vis-a-vis our parents?

"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (Quran, 33:40)

BetaThings:
I stand by it nevertheless
At least see how you stoutly defend your friends in the hatred against Islam.

Convinced muslim, defender of non-muslims!!!!!
I don't despise you, but I find your antics distasteful

you are pathetic. *spits*

aribisala0:
You are contradicting yourselves
So you do NOT have to even KNOW about the prophet Mohammed to be a muslim ?

Chairman,
U ve derailed this thread enough Haba,create a Thread for ur arguement, give us a LINK here and let us meet u there!!!

justaqad: are you insinuating el-rufai would err the second time?

Allaah knows best
How can I say? Did he not retweet that original statement. I can only speak for myself. There are limits I as a person will dare not cross

justaqad:
of course,but it is mandatory to control your temper.

Which I have always done. It is that right to anger that you are trying to remove that will not pass with me

justaqad:
"Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but (he is) the Apostle of God, and the Seal of the Prophets: and God has full knowledge of all things. (Quran, 33:40)

So now use the Qur'an to explain his (PBUH) status. Anyone can quote Qur'an. Google is very friendly

justaqad:
you are pathetic. *spits*

Hahahahaahahahaahahahahahahah
Peculiar adab

BetaThings:

So now use the Qur'an to explain his (PBUH) status. Anyone can quote Qur'an. Google is very friendly

hehehehehehehehehehehe. so you want to fault the quran now?
prophet Muhammad is not my/your father. i believe you are not Anabi Isa.you must have a father

[quote author=aribisala0],

1. Are muslims duty bound to read the Psalms and the Torah and the Gospel having come across their mention so many times in the Quran.

2.It is on which record that he wrote letters.Please share that record with us

3The uncompromising belief in the oneness of God as being our creator and being All-powerful with everything else subservient to him. Your words) has been around and practised long before Muhammad by people who do NOT and never claimed to be muslims.My point is this belief is not exclusive to Islam or moslems and indeed predates it.It is disingenuous to then say it is an exclusive thing of muslims. A person who practises this is HANIF and NOT NECESSARILY "MUSLIM"
4. The only addition I see is the acknowledgement of Muhammad as a messenger and are muslims now being to say like Christians that if one does not acknowledge Muhammad he cannot be HANIF.
5. Finally are Sikhs believers?[/quote

You get time for argument abi? Fortunately or unfortunately for you, I don't have the time today. Each one of those your questions you can Google if it is answers you seek. I know you are looking for a debate though... sorry try another day or create a thread for them. I am sure some people will have your time.

Thank you.

P.S: You did make a request I find worthy of attending to though. The Prophet's letters, knock-yourself out with this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_letters_to_the_Heads-of-State

maclatunji: You get time for argument abi? Fortunately or unfortunately for you, I don't have the time today. Each one of those your questions you can Google if it is answers you seek.tongue I know you are looking for a debate though... sorry try another day or create a thread for them. I am sure some people will have your time.

Thank you.

P.S: You did make a request I find worthy of attending to though. The Prophet's letters, knock-yourself out with this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad%27s_letters_to_the_Heads-of-State

Did I call you out or did you call me out on these issues?
So he sent letters to his neighbours = "Sent letters to the world"
Certainly no letters were sent to white people,black people,Chinese people or Indian people just his NEIGHBOURS
What an empty vessel !!!

@Poster, The first verse in the Holy Qur'an demands us to seek knowledge. I want to believe you lack Islamic knowledge and that is the basis behind your mode of thinking. The Holy prophet was Arab, Holy Qur'an was revealed in Arabic and while praying all recitations are done in Arabic. Therefore, eventhough as a Muslim one must bear Arabic name but there is beauty in it. In Islam an Arab is not better than you and I before Allah except he is the most righteous. However, Arabic must be cherished by all Muslims. My brother in Islam, go and seek knowledge!!!