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We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs - Islam for Muslims (16) - Nairaland

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Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by Nobody: 10:01pm On Feb 07, 2013
Are some Nigerians from the Middle-East?
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by ghostofsparta(m): 12:10am On Feb 08, 2013
all4naija: Are some Nigerians from the Middle-East?

It seems so, the likes of seunajia, maclatunji and justadaq, etc are happy to link their ancestors to the middle east. Even White Europeans don't trace their links to Israel, much less Black Africans.

imagine seunajia saying "according to Yoruba oral tradition, the Yorubas emigrated from Mecca. You have a problem with that?"

Can he quote an Ifa passage (odu) to support his 'mecca theory' claim?

Eni to ba pa iro, yo ja ole(A habitual liar will end up a thief)
Eni to ba ja ole, ko ni oju ti(A thief has no shame)
Eni ti ko ni oju ti, yi o pa eniyan(A shameless person will commit murder)

1 Like

Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by BetaThings: 6:08am On Feb 08, 2013
ghostofsparta:

What I meant is, you are one of those Yorubas who believe the Yorubas came from Mecca. Since you kept acknowledging Islamic religion which is parallel with the Arabs. Isn't it absurd for a seemingly pro-Yoruba like you and justadaq and yet claims Islam of the Arab at the same time? How does one reconcile it? Wouldn't it be odd for Budhist-born, imagine a Cantonese speaking Chinese believing in the religious doctrines of Judaism and Yawheh or Tibetans proudly claiming that they are Christians believing in the Heaven and hell-fire. I hope you get the point now?

There have been Chinese Budhists that converted to Christianity or Islam.
I have even posted one here in one of the previous pages
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by justaqad(m): 6:57am On Feb 08, 2013
Anvaller:

If according to ur claim, Islamic name is different from Arabic name (though not admitting that there is anything as such) can u then prove to me why must an Islamic name be an Arabic name since u have stated that the two are not the same?



And this is where the problem is, would u use this verse to justify the bone of contention...? Does this give a specific obligation for us to bear arabic names? If u want to use this verse to justify ur claim, then every single muslim's name should be Muhammed. Any other name short of that does not conform to this verse and must be rejected cause such names were not of the prophet. U can not quote a verse away from the total context to justify a narrow claim. This is exactly the same kind of scenario that cultivate inspirations for the suicide bombers. Those guys also look for some verses to justify their belief haphazardly and they are genuinely convinced that they will automatically transition into heaven immediately after being shattered by a bomb that would kill several innocent others. Let's be careful in our thinking.


well said..
couldn't have said better
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 8:14am On Feb 08, 2013
ghostofsparta:

It seems so, the likes of seunajia, maclatunji and justadaq, etc are happy to link their ancestors to the middle east. Even White Europeans don't trace their links to Israel, much less Black Africans.

imagine seunajia saying "according to Yoruba oral tradition, the Yorubas emigrated from Mecca. You have a problem with that?"

Can he quote an Ifa passage (odu) to support his 'mecca theory' claim?

Eni to ba pa iro, yo ja ole(A habitual liar will end up a thief)
Eni to ba ja ole, ko ni oju ti(A thief has no shame)
Eni ti ko ni oju ti, yi o pa eniyan(A shameless person will commit murder)

Stop being finicky man. I already explained earlier that my religion and my origin are two mutually exclusive things. Is it now wrong for a Yoruba man to be a muslim?

There are three accounts to the origin of the Yorubas according to the Yoruba oral tradition. All these I learnt from home and also school. Every true Yoruba man is aware of atleast two of these accounts.

The first account is strictly oral tradition. Lamurudu is the father of Yoruba, a tradition religionist who lived in Mecca (some have said it's Sudan, but I learnt Mecca in school). Lamurudu's son Oduduwa fled from Mecca to Ile-Ife as a result of religious issues and persecution. He brought with him the Ifa religion and started a new dynasty. The Ifa religion is still enshrined in Yorubaland today. Oduduwa begot an only son Okanbi who had 7 children (Omo meje Okanbi): Oranmiyan, Onipopo ti Popo (Benin republic), Onisabe ti Sabe (Benin republic), Orangun Ile-Ila, Oba Ibini (Benin), Alaketu ti Ketu and Olowu of Owu.


The second is based on Yoruba Mythology. This tradition speaks of the ‘the beginning of time’ probably the pluvial period when Eledumare (Supreme Being) sent messengers (immortals) to the surface of the earth to create the world. At the head of this party was Obatala. The myth tells of God lowering a chain at Ile-Ife, down which they came with Oduduwa, the ancestor of all people. In his possession were lump of sand and a chicken with which they were to create the world. Before his landing, the lump of sand was set down, and, chicken was placed to spread the sand. Thus began the creation of the world from Ile-Ife where the immortals landed.

The third account is that of sayensi (science). I can't recall this, sadly.

Here is a link from Wikipedia which gives some semblance of authenticity to what was passed down through oral tradition. I lean more to what was passed down by my ancestors though.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oduduwa
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by BetaThings: 8:30am On Feb 08, 2013
ghostofsparta:

It seems so, the likes of seunajia, maclatunji and justadaq, etc are happy to link their ancestors to the middle east. Even White Europeans don't trace their links to Israel, much less Black Africans.

imagine seunajia saying "according to Yoruba oral tradition, the Yorubas emigrated from Mecca. You have a problem with that?"

Can he quote an Ifa passage (odu) to support his 'mecca theory' claim?

Eni to ba pa iro, yo ja ole(A habitual liar will end up a thief)
Eni to ba ja ole, ko ni oju ti(A thief has no shame)
Eni ti ko ni oju ti, yi o pa eniyan(A shameless person will commit murder)

In other words, everyone who dresses indecently, or more appropriately, who engages in se.xua.lly explicit acts for public viewing is a potential murderer
I also believe that some people actually lie to avoid shame
Some of these aphorisms can indeed be misleading
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 9:45am On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

How do you know this? Proof? undecided

BTW, according to Yoruba oral tradition, the Yorubas emigrated from Mecca. You have a problem with that?



Islamic religion is parallel with arabs? Do you know the meaning of parallel? SMH



Why should my belief be dependent on my origin? AFAIC, religion is based on conviction and has absolutely nothing to do with my origin. You have no point brah.

And for your info there are Chinese muslims (Huizhou ~= 9.8m people) living in the heart of China.

those are ot pure Han Chinese. those muslims are Uyghurs who are half-bred arabs, tajiks, mongols , persians and han, who mixed and itermarriedd during the SIlk ROad Trade Route in the medieval times.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 9:55am On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

Stop being finicky man. I already explained earlier that my religion and my origin are two mutually exclusive things. Is it now wrong for a Yoruba man to be a muslim?

There are three accounts to the origin of the Yorubas according to the Yoruba oral tradition. All these I learnt from home and also school. Every true Yoruba man is aware of atleast two of these accounts.

The first account is strictly oral tradition. Lamurudu is the father of Yoruba, a tradition religionist who lived in Mecca (some have said it's Sudan, but I learnt Mecca in school). Lamurudu's son Oduduwa fled from Mecca to Ile-Ife as a result of religious issues and persecution. He brought with him the Ifa religion and started a new dynasty. The Ifa religion is still enshrined in Yorubaland today. Oduduwa begot an only son Okanbi who had 7 children (Omo meje Okanbi): Oranmiyan, Onipopo ti Popo (Benin republic), Onisabe ti Sabe (Benin republic), Orangun Ile-Ila, Oba Ibini (Benin), Alaketu ti Ketu and Olowu of Owu.


what religion dide he follow there? Pre-islamic Arab Traditional Religion?


The second is based on Yoruba Mythology. This tradition speaks of the ‘the beginning of time’ probably the pluvial period when Eledumare (Supreme Being) sent messengers (immortals) to the surface of the earth to create the world. At the head of this party was Obatala. The myth tells of God lowering a chain at Ile-Ife, down which they came with Oduduwa, the ancestor of all people. In his possession were lump of sand and a chicken with which they were to create the world. Before his landing, the lump of sand was set down, and, chicken was placed to spread the sand. Thus began the creation of the world from Ile-Ife where the immortals landed.

The third account is that of sayensi (science). I can't recall this, sadly.

Here is a link from Wikipedia which gives some semblance of authenticity to what was passed down through oral tradition. I lean more to what was passed down by my ancestors though.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oduduwa

The above 2 are possible. The first account is not to be taken literally as os obvious. it has a double meaning.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 9:56am On Feb 08, 2013
BetaThings:

In other words, everyone who dresses indecently, or more appropriately, who engages in se.xua.lly explicit acts for public viewing is a potential murderer
I also believe that some people actually lie to avoid shame
Some of these aphorisms can indeed be misleading


stop taking things literally. you spoil the essence! angry
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 10:38am On Feb 08, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


those are ot pure Han Chinese. those muslims are Uyghurs who are half-bred arabs, tajiks, mongols , persians and han, who mixed and itermarriedd during the SIlk ROad Trade Route in the medieval times.

I'm not referring to the Uyghurs. The Uyghurs do not obvious speak Mandarin. They have their Turkic language. The Huizhou people also known as the Hui, are Chinese people who speak Chinese (Mandarin).

Now the Uyghurs; whether or not they are original chinese; are Chinese. They have been there over 1400 years! How dare anyone say they are not Chinese? Pure ko pure ni. lol Even the Americans are yet to spend 1400years in America.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 10:54am On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

I'm not referring to the Uyghurs. The Uyghurs do not obvious speak Mandarin. They have their Turkic language. The Huizhou people also known as the Hui, are Chinese people who speak Chinese (Mandarin).

Now the Uyghurs; whether or not they are original chinese; are Chinese. They have been there over 1400 years! How dare anyone say they are not Chinese? Pure ko pure ni. lol Even the Americans are yet to spend 1400years in America.


Hui muslims are also mixed between Persian/Arab Khwarezmi traders and HAn, etc. , Chinese.

ofc They are not Chinese. CHina was formed barely 70 years ago!
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 11:03am On Feb 08, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


what religion dide he follow there? Pre-islamic Arab Traditional Religion?



The above 2 are possible. The first account is not to be taken literally as os obvious. it has a double meaning.


Yes sir! There is evidence to that. For example they were 365 days and 365 gods in pre-Islamic Arabia. The Yorubas too had/have 365 deities worshiped each day.

According to what I heard, people used to have tribal marks in old Arabia too. Infact, the Sudanese still have the same Ijebu/oyo tribal marks till date.

Also, there is this way of wrapping an iro (wrapper) around yourself, in Yoruba it is called "Pakaja". It was a common place in the Arabia of old and even that of today. For example the Hiram dressing by Al-hajs. Etc. Where are the historians in the house?

The Yoruba oral tradition is subject to a lot of debate as with all oral histories.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 11:14am On Feb 08, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:



Hui muslims are also mixed between Persian/Arab Khwarezmi traders and HAn, etc. , Chinese.

ofc They are not Chinese. CHina was formed barely 70 years ago!

Bros this your logic is very funny gan o. You mean after spending over 1400 years old (lol) they are not still Chinese? shocked In your books the AAs sef are not Americans since they have mixed blood too undecided and the Jewish-Americans too, the Hispanics, infact the whole world sef lipsrsealed

China is 70years old? undecided Epic!

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki Timeline_of_Chinese_history
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 11:47am On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

Yes sir! There is evidence to that. For example they were 365 days and 365 gods in pre-Islamic Arabia. The Yorubas too had/have 365 deities worshiped each day.

According to what I heard, people used to have tribal marks in old Arabia too. Infact, the Sudanese still have the same Ijebu/oyo tribal marks till date.

Also, there is this way of wrapping an iro (wrapper) around yourself, in Yoruba it is called "Pakaja". It was a common place in the Arabia of old and even that of today. For example the Hiram dressing by Al-hajs. Etc. Where are the historians in the house?

The Yoruba oral tradition is subject to a lot of debate as with all oral histories.

why does this so called evidence not prove that the Arabians migrated from Yorubaland

2 Likes

Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 11:53am On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

Yes sir! There is evidence to that. For example they were 365 days and 365 gods in pre-Islamic Arabia. The Yorubas too had/have 365 deities worshiped each day.

According to what I heard, people used to have tribal marks in old Arabia too. Infact, the Sudanese still have the same Ijebu/oyo tribal marks till date.

Also, there is this way of wrapping an iro (wrapper) around yourself, in Yoruba it is called "Pakaja". It was a common place in the Arabia of old and even that of today. For example the Hiram dressing by Al-hajs. Etc. Where are the historians in the house?

The Yoruba oral tradition is subject to a lot of debate as with all oral histories.

can you name all the 365 Yoruba Gods?

None of the Arab tribals have tribal markings. only mixed (AL Mahrah) Sudanese Arabs have tribal marks due to close proximity with Africans.

Turbans are worn everywhere, from Africa to India and as far as Malaysia and Indonesia. this is no justification.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 11:55am On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

Bros this your logic is very funny gan o. You mean after spending over 1400 years old (lol) they are not still Chinese? shocked In your books the AAs sef are not Americans since they have mixed blood too undecided and the Jewish-Americans too, the Hispanics, infact the whole world sef lipsrsealed

China is 70years old? undecided Epic!

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki Timeline_of_Chinese_history

My point is CHina is 70 years old. it didnt exist before that. There were many lesser Kingdoms, warlords ,etc. in the end, it all comes down to ethnicity.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 11:55am On Feb 08, 2013
cry Aribisala
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 12:07pm On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia: cry Aribisala

cry seunaija
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 12:08pm On Feb 08, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


can you name all the 365 Yoruba Gods?

None of the Arab tribals have tribal markings. only mixed (AL Mahrah) Sudanese Arabs have tribal marks due to close proximity with Africans.

Turbans are worn everywhere, from Africa to India and as far as Malaysia and Indonesia. this is no justification.


Manasir
The Manasir people (Arabic: ﺍﻟﻤﻨﺎﺻﻴﺮ) constitute one of many Sunni Arab riverine tribes of Northern Sudan. They are not to be confused with the Al Manaseer of the Gulf region in the
Arabian Peninsula based mainly in the United Arab Emirates. They inhabit the region of the Fourth Cataract of the Nile and call their homeland Dar al-Manasir. Similar to their neighbouring tribes, the upstream Rubatab
(ﺍﻟﺮﺑﺎﻃﺎﺏ) and the downstream Shaiqiyah
(ﺍﻟﺸﺎﻳﻘﻴﺔ), the Manasir are indigenous nile
culture who adapted Islam and became Arabic speakers. Unlike other riverain tribes of the Sudan a considerable part of their population actually lives as Bedouins in the adjacent Bayudah Desert. The nomadic life of herding their stock of goats, sheep and camels in desert valleys is however limited for many to the rainy season, coinciding with the annual inundation of the Nile. Origin Similar to other Arab tribes, the people trace their origins back to one historical ancestor. According to the current oral tradition of many Manasir this person is called Mansur and belongs to the line of descendants of al-'Abbas, the uncle of Muhammad.

Tribal marks
Like other tribes in Sudan, most Manasir of the grown-up generations have tribal marks (Shilukh, ﺍﻟﺸﻠﻮﺥ) which possibly originate from a Sheikh's animal burning mark (Wasm, ﻭﺳﻢ). The tribal marks are cut with a razor on the cheeks of a child to mark it belonging to a specific tribe.
Among the Donqolawi and the Shaiqiya these marks usually consist of three horizontal scars, among the Rubatab and the Ga'aliin the lines are vertical, the scars in the case of the Rubatab
being rather larger and closer together (cf. CROWFOOT 131-132). The Manasir do not have a unique design of tribal marks, but copy either the upstream or downstream neighbouring tribes.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manasir

Turban is not Pakaja. I don't know what it's called in English.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 12:10pm On Feb 08, 2013
aribisala0:

cry seunaija

I won't lick your a.rse, but that question is unlike you.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 12:26pm On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

I won't lick your a.rse, but that question is unlike you.
I take it you are thinking aloud and NOT trying to communicate with me as your words are indecipherable
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 12:27pm On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

Manasir
The Manasir people (Arabic: ﺍﻟﻤﻨﺎﺻﻴﺮ) constitute one of many Sunni Arab riverine tribes of Northern Sudan. They are not to be confused with the Al Manaseer of the Gulf region in the
Arabian Peninsula based mainly in the United Arab Emirates. They inhabit the region of the Fourth Cataract of the Nile and call their homeland Dar al-Manasir. Similar to their neighbouring tribes, the upstream Rubatab
(ﺍﻟﺮﺑﺎﻃﺎﺏ) and the downstream Shaiqiyah
(ﺍﻟﺸﺎﻳﻘﻴﺔ), the Manasir are indigenous nile
culture who adapted Islam and became Arabic speakers. Unlike other riverain tribes of the Sudan a considerable part of their population actually lives as Bedouins in the adjacent Bayudah Desert. The nomadic life of herding their stock of goats, sheep and camels in desert valleys is however limited for many to the rainy season, coinciding with the annual inundation of the Nile. Origin Similar to other Arab tribes, the people trace their origins back to one historical ancestor. According to the current oral tradition of many Manasir this person is called Mansur and belongs to the line of descendants of al-'Abbas, the uncle of Muhammad.


Turban is not Pakaja. I don't know what it's called in English.

sorry i meant MANASIR not MAHRA, i admit my mistake. i couldnt remember the name so i got confused between the two. infact this further proves my claim. The Manasir have many cusutms similiar to the Beja and their burials are similar to Nubians. they are not pure Arabs if Arabs at all. probably an arabized Nubian offshoot. They dont even look Arab. They are Nile indigenes.

The Arabs dont wear Pakaja.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 12:40pm On Feb 08, 2013
aribisala0:

why does this so called evidence not prove that the Arabians migrated from Yorubaland


I wouldn't think you would ask this. Anyway that's what the evidence says. I don't suppose you don't know the history of the Arabs, but here you have it. www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/31568/history-of-Arabia
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 12:52pm On Feb 08, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


sorry i meant MANASIR not MAHRA, i admit my mistake. i couldnt remember the name so i got confused between the two. infact this further proves my claim. The Manasir have many cusutms similiar to the Beja and their burials are similar to Nubians. they are not pure Arabs if Arabs at all. probably an arabized Nubian offshoot. They dont even look Arab. They are Nile indigenes.

The Arabs dont wear Pakaja.

The link I posted tells you everything. Which other tribe from Yorubaland towards the East to Arabia has such distinctive tribal marks?

According to the current oral tradition of many Manasir this person is called Mansur and belongs to the line of descendants of al-'Abbas, the uncle of Muhammad.

Arabs don't Pakaja?

Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 1:31pm On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

I wouldn't think you would ask this. Anyway that's what the evidence says. I don't suppose you don't know the history of the Arabs, but here you have it. www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/31568/history-of-Arabia
Do you know me to know how I think?

"THE EVIDENCE" ? such an arrogant phrase and all you have to offer is an encyclopaedic entry.

Anyway I ask questions when I do not know or when there is no satifactory explanation. That is my style. I do not pretend to have knowledge that I do not have.I responded directly to what is reproduced below


seunajia:

Yes sir! There is evidence to that. For example they were 365 days and 365 gods in pre-Islamic Arabia. The Yorubas too had/have 365 deities worshiped each day.

According to what I heard, people used to have tribal marks in old Arabia too. Infact, the Sudanese still have the same Ijebu/oyo tribal marks till date.

Also, there is this way of wrapping an iro (wrapper) around yourself, in Yoruba it is called "Pakaja". It was a common place in the Arabia of old and even that of today. For example the Hiram dressing by Al-hajs. Etc. Where are the historians in the house?

The Yoruba oral tradition is subject to a lot of debate as with all oral histories.

You state that The above is evidence that the Yorubas came from Arabia and I question why it is not evidence that the Arabians came from Africa. This is a question of the logic of your reasoning and deduction in interpreting the above. It does not need and is not further butresssed by any more entries. I have not even offered any opinion. Just asking that ; in observing the same tribal marks in the two we MUST conclude that Yorubas came from there and Not the other way round. Or even that they both came from another(the same) place not known
Why must we draw that particular inference that you seem to prefer. This is a matter of logic and the mechanics of thinking. So your Additional encyclopaedia entry is tangential and not helpful.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 2:12pm On Feb 08, 2013
aribisala0:
Do you know me to know how I think?

"THE EVIDENCE" ? such an arrogant phrase and all you have to offer is an encyclopaedic entry.

Anyway I ask questions when I do not know or when there is no satifactory explanation. That is my style. I do not pretend to have knowledge that I do not have.I responded directly to what is reproduced below




You state that The above is evidence that the Yorubas came from Arabia and I question why it is not evidence that the Arabians came from Africa. This is a question of the logic of your reasoning and deduction in interpreting the above. It does not need and is not further butresssed by any more entries. I have not even offered any opinion. Just asking that ; in observing the same tribal marks in the two we MUST conclude that Yorubas came from there and Not the other way round. Or even that they both came from another(the same) place not known
Why must we draw that particular inference that you seem to prefer. This is a matter of logic and the mechanics of thinking. So your Additional encyclopaedia entry is tangential and not helpful.


Looool.

I brought up "The evidence" to back up my post on the origin of the Yoruba according to oral tradition that states the Yorubas came from Mecca. The Yorubas are making/made the claim. Thus I didn't expect to be asked such a question or be asked to explain why the "so called evidence not prove that the Arabians migrated from Yorubaland"
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 3:01pm On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

Looool.

I brought up "The evidence" to back up my post on the origin of the Yoruba according to oral tradition that states the Yorubas came from Mecca. The Yorubas are making/made the claim. Thus I didn't expect to be asked such a question or be asked to explain why the "so called evidence not prove that the Arabians migrated from Yorubaland"

"The Yorubas are making" the claim or some Yorubas make the claim ?


There is a huge difference between the two.
Do they make other claims as well. or is it just Mecca. As far as I know they have always claimed to come from the "East" and this has been interpreted in several ways.
Are there not other general claims that ALL humanity originated in Africa.?
How do we juxtapose all these?

Why not cite as evidence the fact that the Yorubas give themselves names or cook their food with fire or bury their dead in the ground as evidence of Arabian origin since Arabians do the same?

Does coming from Mecca mean the same thing as Being of Arabian Origin? Are Arabians the only ones or the first to live in Mecca.?

Take some time to think about what you say. Always there is so much we do not know compared to what we know and that should remain a source of intellectual humility

1 Like

Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 3:15pm On Feb 08, 2013
aribisala0:

"The Yorubas are making" the claim or some Yorubas make the claim ?


There is a huge difference between the two.
Do they make other claims as well. or is it just Mecca. As far as I know they have always claimed to come from the "East" and this has been interpreted in several ways.
Are there not other general claims that ALL humanity originated in Africa.?
How do we juxtapose all these?

Why not cite as evidence the fact that the Yorubas give themselves names or cook their food with fire or bury their dead in the ground as evidence of Arabian origin since Arabians do the same?

Does coming from Mecca mean the same thing as Being of Arabian Origin? Are Arabians the only ones or the first to live in Mecca.?

Take some time to think about what you say. Always there is so much we do not know compared to what we know and that should remain a source of intellectual humility


Really? undecided

The story of Lamurudu is oral tradition, I didn't manufacture it and clearly stated this.

There are three accounts to the origin of the Yorubas according to the Yoruba oral tradition. All these I learnt from home and also school. Every true Yoruba man is aware of atleast two of these accounts.

The first account is strictly oral tradition. Lamurudu is the father of Yoruba, a tradition religionist who lived in Mecca (some have said it's Sudan, but I learnt Mecca in school). Lamurudu's son Oduduwa fled from Mecca to Ile-Ife as a result of religious issues and persecution. He brought with him the Ifa religion and started a new dynasty. The Ifa religion is still enshrined in Yorubaland today. Oduduwa begot an only son Okanbi who had 7 children (Omo meje Okanbi): Oranmiyan, Onipopo ti Popo (Benin republic), Onisabe ti Sabe (Benin republic), Orangun Ile-Ila, Oba Ibini (Benin), Alaketu ti Ketu and Olowu of Owu.

If you are interested in knowing why they don't bury their dead in one way or why they don't eat a particular kind of food, please you're a Yoruba man do the research and post it here on NL let's learn from you. This is what I learnt/know.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by aribisala0(m): 3:29pm On Feb 08, 2013
seunajia:

Really? undecided

The story of Lamurudu is oral tradition, I didn't manufacture it and clearly stated this.

If you are interested in knowing why they don't bury their dead in one way or why they don't eat a particular kind of food, please you're a Yoruba man do the research and post it here on NL let's learn from you.


No one said the story of Lamurudu is a musical one nor that you made it up However there are so many versions and other conflicting stories that do not recognize Lamurudu at all. In fact the preeminent Yoruba tradition or Ifa Tradition is that Life started at Ile-Ife for anyone to insist it(Lamurudu tradition) constitutes "evidence" is disingenuous if I am to be polite
You mentioned aspects of human anthropology that are universal to Africa e.g Tribal marks as evidence of Arabian origin when this is clearly bogus.
There is no ONE form of Tribal mark that is uniquely Yoruba in the first place and there are great similarities with many non-Yoruba neighbours in Nigeria without having to look to Sudan or Mecca.Allthe early bronze castings unearthed by archaeologists which date to the 1st century AD showcase a range of marks many of which are not around today.

So
I take it you have nothing more to offer but breezy bluster which is fine because I shall not respond to you any more.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by Nobody: 3:55pm On Feb 08, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


can you name all the 365 Yoruba Gods?

None of the Arab tribals have tribal markings. only mixed (AL Mahrah) Sudanese Arabs have tribal marks due to close proximity with Africans.

Turbans are worn everywhere, from Africa to India and as far as Malaysia and Indonesia. this is no justification.

Seriously, tribes in Nigeria have indentity problem. From Igbo people claiming to be Jews to Yorubas claiming to be similar to Arabs.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 4:01pm On Feb 08, 2013
aribisala0:

No one said the story of Lamurudu is a musical one nor that you made it up

Typical! Do I also expect that you turn it into a "Yo momma" contest? Yes.

However there are so many versions and other conflicting stories that do not recognize Lamurudu at all. In fact the preeminent Yoruba tradition or Ifa Tradition is that Life started at Ile-Ife for anyone to insist it(Lamurudu tradition) constitutes "evidence" is disingenuous if I am to be polite

Whose fact? What evidence?

You mentioned aspects of human anthropology that are universal to Africa e.g Tribal marks as evidence of Arabian origin when this is clearly bogus.
There is no ONE form of Tribal mark that is uniquely Yoruba in the first place and there are great similarities with many non-Yoruba neighbours in Nigeria without having to look to Sudan or Mecca.

Again, I met this claim on earth.

But Please Aribisala, enlighten me. Name the neighbors who have the same type of tribal marks?


Allthe early bronze castings unearthed by archaeologists which date to the 1st century AD showcase a range of marks many of which are not around today.

The people just stopped drawing marks on themselves? How come the Yorubas still have some people with marks?

So
I take it you have nothing more to offer but breezy bluster which is fine because I shall not respond to you any more.

I really should stop now because I know what's coming next. Curses, especially Yo momma and Poppa ones. I don't play like that tongue

Have a nice day sir!
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by seunajia: 4:31pm On Feb 08, 2013
BTW, this is a similar account by the Ajase Ipos. I hope they are not making "bogus" claims too? lipsrsealed

YORUBA IN NIGERIA IGBOMINA Yorubas migrated to Ife-land (Nigeria) from around Saudi Arabia and North West Africa through Bornu, Hausa-land and finally settled at Ile-Ife in the
South West Zone and parts of North Central Zone of Nigeria.There were aboriginal inhabitants who occupied ( Ife-land) the locality when Oduduwa
and his followers arrived. The aborigines who were represented by AGBO-NIREGUN in the legend of origin were a kin to the Baribas and the
Nupes people. Oduduwa settled at Ife-land with his followers. Oduduwa had a son called prince OKANBI who had seven children who were PRINCES AND PRINCESSES of Yoruba land.
They are: 1. First Daughter - Olowu of Owu 2. Second Daughter - Alaketu of Ketu 3. First Son - Akenzua of Benin 4. Second Son - Orangun of Ila 5. Third Son - Onisabe of Sabe 6. Fourth Son -
Olupopo of Popo 7. Fifth Son -Oranmiyan of Oyo Two sons and daughters are now in Dahomey (Benin Republic). A son - Olupopo of Popo A son - Onisabe of Sabe A Daughter - Alaketu of Ketu OYO KINGDOM Prince Oranmiyan left Ife-land on a mission to revenge the insult of his fore-fathers in Saudi Arabia or North East Africa. Prince Oranmiyan left Ife with most of Yoruba
Kingdoms or compounds at Ife, namely, Ifes, Ekitis, Ijeshas, Egbas, Ijebus, Igbominas, Ondos, Sabes, Ketus, Benins, Owus, Popos, and some other Kingdoms or compounds. The rest of the Kingdoms above were still at Ile-Ife catering and looking after their communities. Prince Oranmiyan could not reach his revenge mission, but stopped at Bariba and Nupe land, where he established his Kingdom in 1100 A.D., called Oyo- Ile at KATUNGA through the permission of
Bariba King.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajasse_Ipo

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