I think a lot of them are quite jealous/envious of the very young team of RBR Racing. They have achieved so much over a very short period of time. I remember Hamilton saying they were "just a drinks company", funny though.
But, I think he is gradually getting his due respect even from haters. I bet RBR has paid a lot for his PR.

baby-boy:


Vettel victory in Italian GP back in 2008 it has an explanation. First of all Vettel was very talented but I think that he still had a few weaknesses back then, which by now he had managed to resolve. It was a wet race, including qualifying and we know that on these conditions we can see many surprising results, Perez nearly won last year Malaysian GP, only Alonso's driving skill negated him. Kovalainen could had beaten Vettel at Monza but you can't rely on him when you need to put something special.

Of course that was officially his rookie season so its to be expected that he had some weaknesses I don't think anyone would argue that Vettel's efficiency has vastly improved from where it used to be
I think Perez's case cannot be compared to Vettel's because Perez was not on pole
Kovalainen is an average driver who couldn't hack it even with superior machinery back in 08 no way would he have caught Vettel absolutely no way

baby-boy:

If I remember well all the STR and RBR cars managed to qualify in the top five-sixth, so they were pretty much suited to the conditions but neither of their drivers were as good as Vettel. I have to add that prior to 2010 the STR's were designed by Newey as well and back then (2008) he lamented about the deficiencies of the Renault engine, compared to the Ferrari on the back of the STR's.

I think back then (circa 2006) the RBR was a middling team as evidenced by their results which is why I always laugh when people attribute all of Vettel's success solely to Newey conveniently forgetting he was in that team for 3 years and RBR were not relevant

baby-boy:

After that Renault asked the FIA for a temporary unfreeze rule for the Renault engine in order to recover some of their deficit for 2009 and onwards. I remember Newey saying that his chassis has a lot of potential and if tailored around the Ferrari engine, they can fight with the teams ahead of them. By half season he concentrated on the development of STR and they managed to beat RBR at the end of the season and to win in Italy. Vettel drove very well (especially compared to Bourdais) that season, it was clear that he was a mercurial talent. I posted that to explain how STR managed to beat RBR that year, and it wasn't all about Vettel's talent.

It might not be all down to Vettel's talent but we can say this for just about every driver in F1. I still think based on the machinery available and Vettel's negligible experience he still finished as high as he could. We are not even factoring the fact that Vettel had to retire a whopping 6 times!!

That car wasn't all that if it was how did Bourdais finish 18th? And how was rookie Vettel able to finish ahead of vets like Webber and Coulthard in the RBR despite 6 retirements

baby-boy:

But in the rain Coulthard(RBR) and Vettel(STR) managed to get a podium once in 2008. But for most of the season the midfield was pretty much close, but some way behind Ferrari, McLaren and BMW Sauber, until Renault managed to join them at the end of the season. In 2008, all the teams got into the podium except FI, even Barrichello in the poor Honda RA108 got a podium in a rain soaked race, or Piquet Jr finished 2nd in the semi-chaotic german GP, or Glock in the Hungarian GP. That season opened many chances for all the drivers and Vettel was one of the drivers which delivered. This one isn't like 2008. Whatever a driver does is impossible to get a podium unless you are driving one of the top four teams. As I said Vettel performed very well in 2008, finishing 8th on the standings after the drivers of the top three teams and Alonso.

I think you need to apply some perspective here as neither Piquet,Barrichello or Timo Glock made pole like Vettel
And that race rain soaked as it was did not have safety cars! Only Vettel held his position and that says a lot

baby-boy:

To add something about 2008, Hamilton, Massa and Raikkonen were the only drivers which won races that year without neccesitating special conditions(like rain) or benefiting from rivals bad luck and capitalising on it(it doesn't mean that they didn't deserved their victories). Kubica won in Canada because the SC was deployed(remember SC rules at the time) and Hamilton crashed on Raikkonen at the pitlane. Kovalainen won because Hamilton's tyre and Massa's engine blew. Vettel won because of the rain and the bad luck of Hamilton in qualifying. Alonso won because of the crashgate in Singapore and because Hamilton messed up the field at the first corner in Japan.

This is correct but remember Vettel was in pole position at Monza I don't see the comparison to Kubica and Kovalainen who won with a huge slice of luck! Vettel won without any major catastrophe or underhand tactics so I disagree with the comparisons as that robs him the credit for his sublime driving effort

baby-boy:

As for the topic, Hamilton didn't had necessarily the best car in 2008. I think that Ferrari was stronger. But Massa wasn't consistent in the first half of the season, and Raikkonen form dropped badly in the second half. Lewis did a better job than them so he won the title.

07-08 was between Ferrari and McLaren no doubt. I think you could argue Hamilton had the best car on closer inspection for both years and those have been Hamilton's best years! Its not rocket science really! I don't think Ferrari was stronger they just had a better and more competitive pair

Massa is a better driver than Kovalainen

Darthmaul: I think a lot of them are quite jealous/envious of the very young team of RBR Racing. They have achieved so much over a very short period of time. I remember Hamilton saying they were "just a drinks company", funny though.
But, I think he is gradually getting his due respect even from haters. I bet RBR has paid a lot for his PR.

Isn't it ironic? cause word on the street was that Hamilton was begging to join Red Bull in 2011

See what sublime Vettel has turned F1 and even this thread into. Not a single comment the entire weekend.

I saw qualifying and the main race and it is clear that the others have all given up. These teams better be prepared next season cos Seb is like a machine, his consistency is scary.

montelik: See what sublime Vettel has turned F1 and even this thread into. Not a single comment the entire weekend.

I saw qualifying and the main race and it is clear that the others have all given up. These better be prepared next season cos Seb is like a machine, his consistency is scary.

The boy is getting better! I'm not sure he has made a mistake all season! I don't know what else the haters expect from him.

Alonso can always console himself with fastest lap! People will not point out that Massa has outqualified him in 5 of the last 6 races so I keep wondering what difference would it make if he had the same car as Vettel

montelik: See what sublime Vettel has turned F1 and even this thread into. Not a single comment the entire weekend.

I saw qualifying and the main race and it is clear that the others have all given up. These teams better be prepared next season cos Seb is like a machine, his consistency is scary.

i stumbled unto the race and it was a bore. his car was so fast that he was more than 20sec ahead of his closest rivals before the 15th lap. anyone dumb enough saying that the car isnt fastest out there is just too blinded to see the light. the RBR was so fast, his team told him to SLOW DOWN (which he did)

A-40:

The boy is getting better! I'm not sure he has made a mistake all season! I don't know what else the haters expect from him.

Alonso can always console himself with fastest lap! People will not point out that Massa has outqualified him in 5 of the last 6 races so I keep wondering what difference would it make if he had the same car as Vettel

brother A-40, you always seem to focus on stuff that makes absolutely no difference in F1, lol! how many times did Massa FINISH ahead of Alonso out of the 5 times he outqualified him?......................EXACTLY! what kind of driver would you rather have in your team: the strong qualifier that always finish poorly OR the one that isnt strong in qualifying but delivers (and make it count) on race day?

MRbrownJAY:

brother A-40, you always seem to focus on stuff that makes absolutely no difference in F1, lol! how many times did Massa FINISH ahead of Alonso out of the 5 times he outqualified him?......................EXACTLY! what kind of driver would you rather have in your team the strong qualifier that always finish poorly OR the one that isnt strong in qualifying but delivers (and make it count) on race day?

I dont know because if Ferrari didnt drag Massa in he will finish ahead of Alonso, but since Massa has vow to stand for himseld that means no more Fernando is faster than you move over now they using the pit stop, just like RBR not charging Mark Webbers KERS battery at the start of the race. Like I said some tracks if you qualify poorly theres no come back, this is my fear for both Kimi and Alonso next season

omar22:

I dont know because if Ferrari didnt drag Massa in he will finish ahead of Alonso, but since Massa has vow to stand for himseld that means no more Fernando is faster than you move over now they using the pit stop, just like RBR not charging Mark Webbers KERS battery at the start of the race

Yes, thats true, what Ferrari did was "strange" to say the least, and Massa should have been on soft tyres on his last stint. Ferrari explanation makes no damn sense.

as for the above in bold it is a giveaway man...... Webber's car strangely seem to have all the problems this season....i guess it is simple "bad luck", lol!

MRbrownJAY:

i stumbled unto the race and it was a bore. his car was so fast that he was more than 20sec ahead of his closest rivals before the 15th lap. anyone dumb enough saying that the car isnt fastest out there is just too blinded to see the light. the RBR was so fast, his team told him to SLOW DOWN (which he did)

Yes a bore for the Alonso brigade! I told you ninjas this year was not going to be close. I don't know if RBR should get any blame for doing their job and upgrading their car as the season went along! Because even the biggest cynic has to admit that there was no distinct advantage earlier in the season

Being told down isn't saying much as anyone who knows Vettel knows he is constantly searching for the fastest lap in any race whether he wins it or not he always pushes his car to the limit

MRbrownJAY:
brother A-40, you always seem to focus on stuff that makes absolutely no difference in F1, lol! how many times did Massa FINISH ahead of Alonso out of the 5 times he outqualified him?......................EXACTLY! what kind of driver would you rather have in your team: the strong qualifier that always finish poorly OR the one that isnt strong in qualifying but delivers (and make it count) on race day?

I'm saying if he was on RBR he would still not outqualify Vettel and would certainly find it impossible to outrace him because he would simply not have that straight line speed

^^i guess there are a lot of stuff in your crystal ball that we mere mortal cannot foresee. Unless we put anyone else in that RBR, there is no telling what Alonso, Massa, Hamilton (or myself for that matter) would do in a RBR. i only can say that someone like Alonso or Ham would drive the hell out of that machine and would fair much higher that Webber.

btw: is there anyone apart from the Vettel's cheerleaders who found the last race exciting? please, come and let yourself known.............. as i would really like to know what was exciting about that race. by the 25th lap, the bloody race was over and done, bwaaaaah!

MRbrownJAY: ^^i guess there are a lot of stuff in your crystal ball that we mere mortal cannot foresee. Unless we put anyone else in that RBR, there is no telling what Alonso, Massa, Hamilton (or myself for that matter) would do in a RBR. i only can say that someone like Alonso or Ham would drive the hell out of that machine and would fair much higher that Webber.

btw: is there anyone apart from the Vettel's cheerleaders who found the last race exciting? please, come and let yourself known.............. as i would really like to know what was exciting about that race. by the 25th lap, the bloody race was over and done, bwaaaaah!

You can keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. Vettel has proven himself season after season beyond doubt and in just 5 seasons with Red Bull Vettel has won 4 Championships already. Whatever Alonso,Hamilton do with their teams is their business perhaps if Emenike played for Barcelona he would also win the Balon D'or. Building cars for rivals is not part of Seb's job description

The race was good the battle was intriguing for the other positions and Vettel had to race from the back

^^^ what the hell are you on about? are you ok bro?

race was good?! what race? bwaaaah! there was NONE..... if the race happens at the back then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with F1.

A-40:

You can keep telling yourself that if it helps you sleep at night. Vettel has proven himself season after season beyond doubt and in just 5 seasons with Red Bull Vettel has won 4 Championships already. Whatever Alonso,Hamilton do with their teams is their business perhaps if Emenike played for Barcelona he would also win the Balon D'or. Building cars for rivals is not part of Seb's job description

The race was good the battle was intriguing for the other positions and Vettel had to race from the back

lol at intrigues for 2nd & below

choi... a vettel fan but the races are like watching paint dry

Saw the start ,,.. once he rounded off webber... went back to sleep n follow online

^^^thanks for your honesty, bro!
last yr was great, and Vettel won in fantastic fashion.......but we all have to be honest here and many of the Vettel cheerleaders dont know the meaning of the word.

the people who still say that it is exciting to watch F1 dont have a clue what motorsport is all about. some dude with a fast car puts his car on pole, then drives off into the sunset, and some clueless people are saying that this is exciting to watch?!?!?!?! bwaaah!

last year was sweet


alonso crash at spa

The retirement at Abu Dhabi or so?

made the last race worth watching especially the fuel debacle where he had to start from the pits

Ferrari and Merc wake upppp


Though im not happy with what is happening at Mercedes

Brawn is top notch

MRbrownJAY: ^^^thanks for your honesty, bro!
last yr was great, and Vettel won in fantastic fashion.......but we all have to be honest here and many of the Vettel cheerleaders dont know the meaning of the word.

the people who still say that it is exciting to watch F1 dont have a clue what motorsport is all about. some dude with a fast car puts his car on pole, then drives off into the sunset, and some clueless people are saying that this is exciting to watch?!?!?!?! bwaaah!

Nigga STFU! What is your point in all of this? Why not bash the rivals and their constructors for not stepping their game up
What does the "lack of excitement" have to do with Vettel

If you had an ounce of objectivity in your body you would respect and acknowledge the consistency he has shown over five years and the work he has put in instead of frothing at the mouth cos your boy can't cut it

MRbrownJAY: ^^^ what the hell are you on about? are you ok bro?

race was good?! what race? bwaaaah! there was NONE..... if the race happens at the back then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with F1.

I should be asking you if you are ok! What is your point exactly? How is it Vettel's fault? Should he not win or intentionally lose races because he wants to make things interesting

A-40:

Nigga STFU! What is your point in all of this? Why not bash the rivals and their constructors for not stepping their game up
What does the "lack of excitement" have to do with Vettel

chill son, "our" point is that it is very boring to see one car simply being faster than the rest and thus making it UNINTERESTING to watch. the lack of excitement have ALL to do with RBR and Vettel. they have an OBVIOUS faster car, which means F1 today is more like watching a guy drive off into the sunset unchallenged. what kind of deluded person would think that this is EXCITING to watch?

If you had an ounce of objectivity in your body you would respect and acknowledge the consistency he has shown over five years and the work he has put in instead of frothing at the mouth cos your boy can't cut it

yes, i have ALWAYS respected the fact that the RBR car is above the rest, that the car cannot be matched by any other out there, that RBR has a good thing going on........ as for the work Vettel has put, abeg, WHAT WORK? putting the sun shades so that he can still view the sunset as he drives off bwaaaah! vettel rarely has work to do, he simply has to drive in "free air" unchallenged. the day you take the log out of your eyes and accept that fact, is the day we will have an unbiased discussion on this thread.....until then, keep fooling yourself.

I should be asking you if you are ok! What is your point exactly? How is it Vettel's fault? Should he not win or intentionally lose races because he wants to make things interesting

again, it is BORING to watch some guy drive unchallenged and with an obvious faster car..... thats the point here. if you want to attribute that to the sun, Vettel or even baba Ijebu, it is all up to you. i fully understand that vettel has to drive off and win, but that doesnt change the bloody point here: WATCHING VETTEL IN AN OBVIOUS FASTER CAR DRIVING UNCHALLENGED IS BORING TO WATCH. the fact that you think other constructors dont try their damn hardest to match RBR superiority is the joke of the day. abeg go drink some fruit juice, then come tell us what was GOOD (or exciting to watch) about that race!

MRbrownJAY:

chill son, "our" point is that it is very boring to see one car simply being faster than the rest and thus making it UNINTERESTING to watch. the lack of excitement have ALL to do with RBR and Vettel. they have an OBVIOUS faster car, which means F1 today is more like watching a guy drive off into the sunset unchallenged. what kind of deluded person would think that this is EXCITING to watch?

Of course boring to the oafs that thought last year's win was a fluke! You need to be mentally challenged to blame the RBR and Vettel for outperforming constructors like Ferrari,McLaren that are 3-4 times more valuable than they are

Phuck your feelings bruh! No one cares about them

MRbrownJAY:
yes, i have ALWAYS respected the fact that the RBR car is above the rest, that the car cannot be matched by any other out there, that RBR has a good thing going on........ as for the work Vettel has put, abeg, WHAT WORK? putting the sun shades so that he can still view the sunset as he drives off bwaaaah! vettel rarely has work to do, he simply has to drive in "free air" unchallenged. the day you take the log out of your eyes and accept that fact, is the day we will have an unbiased discussion on this thread.....until then, keep fooling yourself.

I'm sure you know better than the F1 experts and his colleagues that continuously laud his work ethic and dedication to his craft. Being the best for 4 years straight na beans?
It takes a very simple mind not to acknowledge that boy is pure genius

Phuck u and your unbiased discussion

MRbrownJAY:
again, it is BORING to watch some guy drive unchallenged and with an obvious faster car..... thats the point here. if you want to attribute that to the sun, Vettel or even baba Ijebu, it is all up to you. i fully understand that vettel has to drive off and win, but that doesnt change the bloody point here: WATCHING VETTEL IN AN OBVIOUS FASTER CAR DRIVING UNCHALLENGED IS BORING TO WATCH. the fact that you think other constructors dont try their damn hardest to match RBR superiority is the joke of the day. abeg go drink some fruit juice, then come tell us what was GOOD (or exciting to watch) about that race!

You are an epic phool! There I said it! We can also say since the Miami Heat and Bayern Munich have stacked up better players surely they are making the sports of basketball and football boring! Its illegal for one human being to possess such vast amounts of foolishness. The onus is on the other constructors to match Red Bull's superiority not whine about it you eediot!!! Its like year after year the excuses become more and more pathetic. We know for a fact that they are not breaking any rules so why are you grunting like a constipated pig?

MRbrownJAY:

chill son, "our" point is that it is very boring to see one car simply being faster than the rest and thus making it UNINTERESTING to watch. the lack of excitement have ALL to do with RBR and Vettel. they have an OBVIOUS faster car, which means F1 today is more like watching a guy drive off into the sunset unchallenged. what kind of deluded person would think that this is EXCITING to watch?

Of course boring to the oafs that thought last year's win was a fluke! You need to be mentally challenged to blame the RBR and Vettel for outperforming constructors like Ferrari,McLaren that are 3-4 times more valuable than they are

Phuck your feelings bruh! No one cares about them

MRbrownJAY:
yes, i have ALWAYS respected the fact that the RBR car is above the rest, that the car cannot be matched by any other out there, that RBR has a good thing going on........ as for the work Vettel has put, abeg, WHAT WORK? putting the sun shades so that he can still view the sunset as he drives off bwaaaah! vettel rarely has work to do, he simply has to drive in "free air" unchallenged. the day you take the log out of your eyes and accept that fact, is the day we will have an unbiased discussion on this thread.....until then, keep fooling yourself.

I'm sure you know better than the F1 experts and his colleagues that continuously laud his work ethic and dedication to his craft. Being the best for 4 years straight na beans?
It takes a very simple mind not to acknowledge that boy is pure genius

Phuck u and your unbiased discussion

MRbrownJAY:
again, it is BORING to watch some guy drive unchallenged and with an obvious faster car..... thats the point here. if you want to attribute that to the sun, Vettel or even baba Ijebu, it is all up to you. i fully understand that vettel has to drive off and win, but that doesnt change the bloody point here: WATCHING VETTEL IN AN OBVIOUS FASTER CAR DRIVING UNCHALLENGED IS BORING TO WATCH. the fact that you think other constructors dont try their damn hardest to match RBR superiority is the joke of the day. abeg go drink some fruit juice, then come tell us what was GOOD (or exciting to watch) about that race!

You are an epic phool! There I said it! We can also say since the Miami Heat and Bayern Munich have stacked up better players surely they are making the sports of basketball and football boring! Its illegal for one human being to possess such vast amounts of foolishness. The onus is on the other constructors to match Red Bull's superiority not whine about it you eediot!!! Its like year after year the excuses become more and more pathetic. We know for a fact that they are not breaking any rules so why are you grunting like a constipated pig?

^^^^i can see i have hurt your feelings, let me apologise if i did.....that was not my intention. you seem to be the one foaming from the mouth suddenly...... chill, we are having a discussion and bringing our views to the table. if thats something you are not able to do, then i do feel a bit sorry for your kind....again go drink a nice juice, breathe, and then when you have calmed down, come back for more discussion.

now let me get back to the subject at hand:
we have all said it (at least I MBJ did) that last year was a fair and square win by RBR and Vettel. if anyone said it was fluke, then by all means, address THEM directly. again, pls do not misquote me, i dont blame RBR and Vettel for outperforming the others, i blame them for making the sport BORING TO WATCH. kudos to RBR for having a faster machine, outperforming the rest. we all want that for the team we support.

please, care to show us where is the "genius" you are talking about? you must be talking about A. Newey, right? yes, Vettel won 4 yrs in a row, does that make him a motorsport genius? not in my (and most F1 pundit) books. but dont despair, we all agree on the fact that the car is a work of art!

now, if any SPORT team in this world (whether Bayern or Jaguda FC), wins over the competition, by a silly margin EACH AND EVERY GAME, then they will undoubtedly make watching of this sport BORING TOO, duh! at least to the most of us, as people like you enjoy watching such uninteresting and unchallenged display.

the competition indeed tries to better themselves and they probably will, but it doesnt change the damn fact that TODAY F1 IS BORING TO WATCH.

MRbrownJAY: ^^^^i can see i have hurt your feelings, let me apologise if i did.....that was not my intention. you seem to be the one foaming from the mouth suddenly...... chill, we are having a discussion and bringing our views to the table. if thats something you are not able to do, then i do feel a bit sorry for your kind....again go drink a nice juice, breathe, and then when you have calmed down, come back for more discussion.

Hurt my feelings? Phool please get over yourself! Its like water on a duck's back no effect at all

Your problem is your difficulty to stomach other opinions that are not in unison with yours. When you chat shyte like RBR are responsible for F1s "boring state" we have to question your sanity and it begs the question what are the other 10 odd teams doing about it?

MRbrownJAY:
now let me get back to the subject at hand:
we have all said it (at least I MBJ did) that last year was a fair and square win by RBR and Vettel. if anyone said it was fluke, then by all means, address THEM directly. again, pls do not misquote me, i dont blame RBR and Vettel for outperforming the others, i blame them for making the sport BORING TO WATCH. kudos to RBR for having a faster machine, outperforming the rest. we all want that for the team we support.

Why are you blaming RBR and Vettel for making the sport boring to watch? How does this even make sense? Like I said before everyone knows that up till the Hungarian GP it was still a scrap at the top for the fastest car the only difference is that RBR constantly looks to improve their machine while the others play sitting duck! Whose fault?

MRbrownJAY:
please, care to show us where is the "genius" you are talking about? you must be talking about A. Newey, right? yes, Vettel won 4 yrs in a row, does that make him a motorsport genius? not in my (and most F1 pundit) books. but dont despair, we all agree on the fact that the car is a work of art!

Why not tell us how many races A.Newey won at Red Bull prior to Vettel's arrival? This is exactly why I'm convinced you are mentally challenged! Going by your logic Kobe and Jordan are not greats because they never won another title outside Phil Jackson's coaching! In that case why didn't Webber or Coulthard win titles?

Keep arguing till you are blue in the face! BBC as at last year put Vettel at #8 in their list of all-time greats higher than Hamilton and ALONSO

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/10421744/Lewis-Hamilton-must-change-or-risk-falling-further-behind-Sebastian-Vettel-says-Formula-One-legend-Alain-Prost.html

I'm sure you and your band of pundits are more knowledgeable than Alan Prost who has forgotten more about F1 than you can ever remember

www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97020

www.espn.co.uk/lotusf1/motorsport/story/129035.html

Peers and past drivers alike are all queuing to pay homage to greatness and one ignorant nucca is here chatting megedefegede. Like your opinion or that of any halfwitted pundit is worth a damn

MRbrownJAY:
now, if any SPORT team in this world (whether Bayern or Jaguda FC), wins over the competition, by a silly margin EACH AND EVERY GAME, then they will undoubtedly make watching of this sport BORING TOO, duh! at least to the most of us, as people like you enjoy watching such uninteresting and unchallenged display.

the competition indeed tries to better themselves and they probably will, but it doesnt change the damn fact that TODAY F1 IS BORING TO WATCH.

Sucks for you then! But the sensible thing to do would be to criticize the other teams for not doing enough

Not even the most jaundiced Alonso or Hamilton fanboy should be questioning the Vettelmeister by now! The achievements are there for all to see

I love it when people talk in the air trying to make the most noise while not saying a DAMN Thing to corroborate their claim...... at least bring some valid points to the table, or simply keep quiet.

now since you seem to be simply foaming and not making any sense, let ME (MBJ) bring some very valid point to my claim.......people, gather around for this one as it is going to be swift and brutal:

let us all use OUR BRAINS to analyze something; the RBR car became highly competitive from 2009 (RB5) thanks to the design brought along by Newey and co. Sadly, thats the year the Vet joined the team so we have nothing to compare him with........BUT, if we look at Webber's performance, we can clearly see that the car is what improved greatly.
just follow me guys.............. Webber was at RBR for TWO LONG YEARS prior to 2009. during that time his record was 3rd place finish ONCE, 4th place finish ONCE and 5th place finish ONCE. thats his record for 2007 and 2008 at RBR. in MBJ's understanding thats a very POOR record, but again, thats my opinion. then, RBR brings along the RB5 in 2009 and Webber suddenly wins 2 races, finish 2nd FOUR TIMES, and finish third TWICE in one year.

now, you guys dont have to be brain scientist to understand that the CAR became mighty fast and thats the reason a common driver like Webber is now fighting for the championship.......UNLESS, of course, you people believe that Webber became a highly skilled fantastic driver overnight?!

so, all you people can sing praises to the Vet (yes he won 4 champs), but i will reserve my judgment as to his "greatness" until i see driving SKILLS and not just someone driving into the sunset unchallenged because his car his simply faster than the rest. thats certainly NOT driving skills to me.....but hey, thats MY opinion, and that does not take away the fact that he won 4 times thanks to the faster car he drives.

I congratulate RBR for their achievements in bringing a car into F1 that no other team on the grid can compete with....but equally lift my finger towards them for making F1 very boring to watch, thanks to their dominance. if i already know who is going to win a race then there is no point in anyone watching.

let me bow out of this discussion......until next season.

A-40:

Hurt my feelings? Phool please get over yourself! Its like water on a duck's back no effect at all

Your problem is your difficulty to stomach other opinions that are not in unison with yours. When you chat shyte like RBR are responsible for F1s "boring state" we have to question your sanity and it begs the question what are the other 10 odd teams doing about it?


Why are you blaming RBR and Vettel for making the sport boring to watch? How does this even make sense? Like I said before everyone knows that up till the Hungarian GP it was still a scrap at the top for the fastest car the only difference is that RBR constantly looks to improve their machine while the others play sitting duck! Whose fault?


Why not tell us how many races A.Newey won at Red Bull prior to Vettel's arrival? This is exactly why I'm convinced you are mentally challenged! Going by your logic Kobe and Jordan are not greats because they never won another title outside Phil Jackson's coaching! In that case why didn't Webber or Coulthard win titles?

Keep arguing till you are blue in the face! BBC as at last year put Vettel at #8 in their list of all-time greats higher than Hamilton and ALONSO

www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/motorsport/formulaone/lewishamilton/10421744/Lewis-Hamilton-must-change-or-risk-falling-further-behind-Sebastian-Vettel-says-Formula-One-legend-Alain-Prost.html

I'm sure you and your band of pundits are more knowledgeable than Alan Prost who has forgotten more about F1 than you can ever remember

www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/97020

www.espn.co.uk/lotusf1/motorsport/story/129035.html

Peers and past drivers alike are all queuing to pay homage to greatness and one ignorant nucca is here chatting megedefegede. Like your opinion or that of any halfwitted pundit is worth a damn


Sucks for you then! But the sensible thing to do would be to criticize the other teams for not doing enough

I won’t say it’s boring but it is boring on the other hand, but it is what it is; I could remember the Michael Schumacher era, every year the FIA brought in new rules just to curb Schumacher’s dominance, but each year Schumacher comes out on top but in the new tyre rules went in favour of the cars on Michelin tires and this gave Alonso and Kimi the early advantage and the following year Benetton with the Mass Damper. But they race hard against each other but now its about EBD, Diffuser, DRS, KERS etc
The Vettel era is different because of the level of financial commitment from a huge amount of sponsors all over the globe, the problem here is that When Scuderia Ferrari was dominating they still had a very good PR despite the fact that they told Ruben to slow down in Australia in 2002 or 3 so that Michael could win the race. But RBR and the way they have been treating Webber got fans booing them and Vettel on the podium at every race since Seipang, Malaysia up to Suzuka. Now sponsor have got Bernie running from here to there due to the alarming rate of viewers and sponsors who are moving away from the sport.

The engineering, sales and marketing boss of Red Bull Formula 1 sponsor Infiniti has admitted Sebastian Vettel’s current dominance is bad news for the firm at the moment

I can't think of anything much more boring than this season F1 races. I watched most races from hospital alongside my good friend Professor Sid Watkins and I have to say I wasn't impressed.
The concern is that we could miss out on a fantastic season of motor racing. There are so many great drivers in competitive cars but it is near impossible for them to actually race against each other. - Sir S Moss

MRbrownJAY: I love it when people talk in the air trying to make the most noise while not saying a DAMN Thing to corroborate their claim...... at least bring some valid points to the table, or simply keep quiet.

Will you STFU! What a douchegoblin! What point have you made besides display your blatant and idiotic bias and refusing to give credit where it is due?

MRbrownJAY:
now since you seem to be simply foaming and not making any sense, let ME (MBJ) bring some very valid point to my claim.......people, gather around for this one as it is going to be swift and brutal:

let us all use OUR BRAINS to analyze something; the RBR car became highly competitive from 2009 (RB5) thanks to the design brought along by Newey and co. Sadly, thats the year the Vet joined the team so we have nothing to compare him with........BUT, if we look at Webber's performance, we can clearly see that the car is what improved greatly.

You must be very dyslexic! What an eediot! Which of this case scenario cannot be applied to any other driver in F1? So why hasn't Webber been in the championship picture apart from 2010 despite a less restrictive driver dynamic compared to say Ferrari?

100 Adrian Newey's will not win Webber a title

It takes an uncommon eediot to not acknowledge that a quality driver like Vettel also had a hand in the improvement of fortunes at Red Bull afterall they were not winning before he got there! They did not win a single race!

MRbrownJAY:
just follow me guys.............. Webber was at RBR for TWO LONG YEARS prior to 2009. during that time his record was 3rd place finish ONCE, 4th place finish ONCE and 5th place finish ONCE. thats his record for 2007 and 2008 at RBR. in MBJ's understanding thats a very POOR record, but again, thats my opinion. then, RBR brings along the RB5 in 2009 and Webber suddenly wins 2 races, finish 2nd FOUR TIMES, and finish third TWICE in one year.

This guy is ret@rded! My question is why didn't Newey design a title-winning car in Vettel's absence? Afterall he was there for two years with Webber surely since he farts diamonds he should be capable of developing a car that should challenge regardless of who mans the steering

MRbrownJAY:
now, you guys dont have to be brain scientist to understand that the CAR became mighty fast and thats the reason a common driver like Webber is now fighting for the championship.......UNLESS, of course, you people believe that Webber became a highly skilled fantastic driver overnight?!

Webber might be a limited driver but he wasn't a complete mug! You are not saying anything new anyway because we've seen average joe's like Massa,Barrichello,Button contest for titles in good cars so thank you Captain Obvious! What we didn't see them do however is win 4 titles in a row

MRbrownJAY:
so, all you people can sing praises to the Vet (yes he won 4 champs), but i will reserve my judgment as to his "greatness" until i see driving SKILLS and not just someone driving into the sunset unchallenged because his car his simply faster than the rest. thats certainly NOT driving skills to me.....but hey, thats MY opinion, and that does not take away the fact that he won 4 times thanks to the faster car he drives.

That is your opinion and sadly its not worth a damn! There's not a champion in the last 25 years that has not won with one or two of the fastest cars on the grid armed with that fact we can basically question the greatness of every driver within that era Prost,Senna,Mansell,Villeneuve,Schumacher,Alonso,Kimi etc so really you have made as much sense as a candle in the sun

MRbrownJAY:
I congratulate RBR for their achievements in bringing a car into F1 that no other team on the grid can compete with....but equally lift my finger towards them for making F1 very boring to watch, thanks to their dominance. if i already know who is going to win a race then there is no point in anyone watching.

let me bow out of this discussion......until next season.

This is why the world gasps in awe at your phoolishness! Why should you lift your leprous fingers at them when they've followed all rules and are merely reaping rewards for their diligence

I'm sure at school you also ask the most brilliant student in your class to reduce the number of hours he studies so a halfwit like you can catch up

For questioning Vettel's abilities you already look phoolish but blaming RBR for simply staying ahead of the pack due to their sweat and hard work puts you in another universe of pathetic

baby-boy:

I won’t say it’s boring but it is boring on the other hand, but it is what it is; I could remember the Michael Schumacher era, every year the FIA brought in new rules just to curb Schumacher’s dominance, but each year Schumacher comes out on top but in the new tyre rules went in favour of the cars on Michelin tires and this gave Alonso and Kimi the early advantage and the following year Benetton with the Mass Damper. But they race hard against each other but now its about EBD, Diffuser, DRS, KERS etc

I think its just excuses from the rivals that simply aren't doing the necessary to stay ahead! There's only so much technology you can put in! On a level ground someone still has to drive the car faster than the other. In Vettel's 4 seasons as Champion I can think of only one season (2011) that Vettel's car was head and shoulders ahead of the rest from start to finish

baby-boy:

The Vettel era is different because of the level of financial commitment from a huge amount of sponsors all over the globe, the problem here is that When Scuderia Ferrari was dominating they still had a very good PR despite the fact that they told Ruben to slow down in Australia in 2002 or 3 so that Michael could win the race. But RBR and the way they have been treating Webber got fans booing them and Vettel on the podium at every race since Seipang, Malaysia up to Suzuka. Now sponsor have got Bernie running from here to there due to the alarming rate of viewers and sponsors who are moving away from the sport.

The engineering, sales and marketing boss of Red Bull Formula 1 sponsor Infiniti has admitted Sebastian Vettel’s current dominance is bad news for the firm at the moment

Vettel was not booed at Suzuka

Its one thing to say the sport is boring which is understandable if you are an Alonso,Hamilton fanboy but to not take a second to acknowledge Vettel's genius is laughable and when a spaz like MrBrownjay blames Red Bull for creating this scenario instead of blasting rivals for not keeping up and raising their game then that is pushing sanity past its elastic limit

It begs the question should Red Bull and Vettel intentionally tank next season just to make the sport competitive or do the other teams emulate the Red Bull and look for ways to break this chain? Ferrari the F1 team is worth over a billion dollars ditto McLaren are these the guys we should feel sorry for?

Bernie doesn't give a shyte! He goes where the money is! Bahrain,Abu Dhabi these aren't exactly F1 mad countries. Next year's race has 22 provisional races but would likely be reduced to 20. F1 is still in pretty healthy shape despite the rumors swirling round

A-40

Look, am not here to throw insults at anyone, I have been watching F1 since the late 80s during the turbo engine era and I started supporting Lewis after Schumacher retired.

If you say because I support Lewis then am jealous of Vettels achievement then you’re very wrong! I started supporting Lewis because the way he drives, Lewis came from a Karting back ground, that likes to glides into corners, and that was his driving style. The moment F1 became a place where you have to nurse your tires, that’s when I knew Lewis won’t win another WDC why because of his driving style and he drove for McLaren!

The same McLaren who lacks reliability from top to bottom and the last time McLaren won anything was when Mika Mika Häkkinen was driving a Adrian Newey (Shocked) designed McLaren racing car that practically wiped the floor with Schumacher and the rest of the field it was don’t to driving Errors from Mika and Driving Ability that gave Schumacher the 2000s WDC.

When you look at Schumacher who won the 1994 WDC with a V8 Ford Zetec engine when the most powerful engine that season was Williams Renaults V10 3.5 engine, Ferrari had the V12 3.5 engine, in 1995 Benetton switched to the same engine as the Williams and Schumacher made a mockery of the Williams drivers. Schumacher was told to prove he is not another Jackie Stewart who drove the Lotus that sometimes lap a driver 2 or 3 times in one race.

I could understand MRbrownJAY point, that RBR was so poor that Christien Hoerner was a season away from the sack before Adrian Newey joined them. Adrian was paid 10m to design both cars, Adrian made more mistakes on the RBR and that’s why Adrian moved the STR’s chassis across from STR to RBR. Thats why I laugh when people talked about Vettel's performance with STR, because the STR was faster than the RBR.

The problem here is that Dr Dietrich Mateschitz hated Webber saying he is not good enough to drive for a top team, but When Webber joined RBR wasn’t a top team. RBR harldy complete their race and when Vettel collided with Webber in Turkey 2012, that’s when the decision was made that the car will be built around Vettel’s driving style. The 2010 title was won on a counter, from Japan another team would have support Webber but RBR did what Ferrari did to Eddie Irvine in 1999, when they had the chance to help Eddie to win the WDC after Schumacher broke his legs, instead of asking Schumacher to let Eddie pass and take 2nd place and win the title, but they said “they will wait another year” so that Schumacher could win the WDC. RBR did the same, it was a title that had both Lewis and Vettel as an outside bet to win the title, RBR tactically screwed Webber by calling him in early for a pit stop knowing that both Rosberg, Petrov, both STR drivers and another have pitted after the safety car and knowing that they are on tires that’s going to take them to the end of the race, and the fools Ferrari tried to cover Webbers and pitted Alonso and got him also into the same mess.

The magnificent RB7 that had everything blowing everywhere to maximise the down force of the car, flexible wing front wing etc. a car designed to Vettel’s driving style, cruised to the title but some interesting incidents also happened that season, in the Wet at Silverstone Vettel has destroyed his tires but Webber was told to maintain his distance some laps to the end of the race and the same at Suzuka Japan when it look like Webber could snatch 3rd place from Vettel despite the fact that the title has been won. In Korea Jaime Alguersuari contract wasn’t renewed because he couldn’t get out of the way when Vettel was doing his flying lap and prevented Vettel getting pole, Dr Dietrich Mateschitz showed his displeasure towards the Spaniard and the young driver lost his seat.

because of Webber's size and weight he gets a smaller KERS battery, his clutch bit is different because of his height but all in all he was royally screwed by Hoener and Dr Dietrich Mateschitz for the German driver


In 2012 the EDB was banned and uptil Singapore when Adrian Newey built a new rear wing that was blowing like an EBD Vettel (but was legal) Vettel was trailing Alonso and McLaren with who had reliability issues mostly with pit stops and Lewis announcing that he was leaving got them to shift attention away from Lewis to Button and kept Lewis away from the garage from seeing what’s being developed because had 3 retirements from winning positions, but the new wing gave Vettel all the advantage in the world to win in Singapore, Japan, India.

All in all you could see that apart from the rocket, the RB7 that flew through the season, without the team using Webber as a guinea-pig in 2010 or the new wing in 2012 that saved Vettels season, even this season (2013) up-till the tyre change in Canada that got both Hoener and Newey crying like a canary mostly after the Spanish GP (Mercedes also cried as well) Vettel has been blowing hot and cold, Last years tires was brought in and this brought Vettel back into play.

Yes Vettel is a very good driver but just like MBJ has said let’s see him in another car without the brains of the genius called Adrian Newey and they way the treated Webber leaves a bitter taste but Alonso and Ferrari are also the same thats why I was happy Vettel won the 2010 title after what happened in Germany with Ferrari asking Massa to move over.

A-40:

Will you STFU! What a douchegoblin! What point have you made besides display your blatant and idiotic bias and refusing to give credit where it is due?


You must be very dyslexic! What an eediot! Which of this case scenario cannot be applied to any other driver in F1? So why hasn't Webber been in the championship picture apart from 2010 despite a less restrictive driver dynamic compared to say Ferrari?

100 Adrian Newey's will not win Webber a title

It takes an uncommon eediot to not acknowledge that a quality driver like Vettel also had a hand in the improvement of fortunes at Red Bull afterall they were not winning before he got there! They did not win a single race!


This guy is ret@rded! My question is why didn't Newey design a title-winning car in Vettel's absence? Afterall he was there for two years with Webber surely since he farts diamonds he should be capable of developing a car that should challenge regardless of who mans the steering


Webber might be a limited driver but he wasn't a complete mug! You are not saying anything new anyway because we've seen average joe's like Massa,Barrichello,Button contest for titles in good cars so thank you Captain Obvious! What we didn't see them do however is win 4 titles in a row


That is your opinion and sadly its not worth a damn! There's not a champion in the last 25 years that has not won with one or two of the fastest cars on the grid armed with that fact we can basically question the greatness of every driver within that era Prost,Senna,Mansell,Villeneuve,Schumacher,Alonso,Kimi etc so really you have made as much sense as a candle in the sun


This is why the world gasps in awe at your phoolishness! Why should you lift your leprous fingers at them when they've followed all rules and are merely reaping rewards for their diligence

I'm sure at school you also ask the most brilliant student in your class to reduce the number of hours he studies so a halfwit like you can catch up

For questioning Vettel's abilities you already look phoolish but blaming RBR for simply staying ahead of the pack due to their sweat and hard work puts you in another universe of pathetic

We dont need to insult each other its a civil discussion you have to agree with it

baby-boy:
A-40

Look, am not here to throw insults at anyone, I have been watching F1 since the late 80s during the turbo engine era and I started supporting Lewis after Schumacher retired.

I might not have been old enough to follow F1 since the 80's but 2 decades means I'm hardly a JJC to the sport

baby-boy:

If you say because I support Lewis then am jealous of Vettels achievement then you’re very wrong! I started supporting Lewis because the way he drives, Lewis came from a Karting back ground, that likes to glides into corners, and that was his driving style. The moment F1 became a place where you have to nurse your tires, that’s when I knew Lewis won’t win another WDC why because of his driving style and he drove for McLaren!

Have I accused you of anything or is guilty conscience at work? Why are you putting words in my mouth?

Nursing your tires is part of the sport and no driver was born with that inherent ability! Its acquired! If he can't nurse them let him try drag racing
Its the same way a long distance runner has to pace himself over the course of a race so he doesn't tire out. Whose fault is it that 6 seasons in he has refused to adapt?

If Lewis never wins another WDC then Que Sera he is simply not good enough

baby-boy:

The same McLaren who lacks reliability from top to bottom and the last time McLaren won anything was when Mika Mika Häkkinen was driving a Adrian Newey (Shocked) designed McLaren racing car that practically wiped the floor with Schumacher and the rest of the field it was don’t to driving Errors from Mika and Driving Ability that gave Schumacher the 2000s WDC.

The same McLaren that was the fastest car in 07 and 08 as well? Didn't Hamilton come 2nd in his rookie year and win the title in his sophomore? Was that car designed by Newey too? 2010 and 2012 McLaren also had a very good car if they were not reliable its hardly Vettel's fault he also had reliability issues

baby-boy:

When you look at Schumacher who won the 1994 WDC with a V8 Ford Zetec engine when the most powerful engine that season was Williams Renaults V10 3.5 engine, Ferrari had the V12 3.5 engine, in 1995 Benetton switched to the same engine as the Williams and Schumacher made a mockery of the Williams drivers. Schumacher was told to prove he is not another Jackie Stewart who drove the Lotus that sometimes lap a driver 2 or 3 times in one race.

Who were the elite drivers at the time? Surely you have to agree that the quality on the field now is not what it was then

You can never please everyone in sport! Opinion will always be subjective even if Vettel wins in another car he will always be questioned

baby-boy:

I could understand MRbrownJAY point, that RBR was so poor that Christien Hoerner was a season away from the sack before Adrian Newey joined them. Adrian was paid 10m to design both cars, Adrian made more mistakes on the RBR and that’s why Adrian moved the STR’s chassis across from STR to RBR. Thats why I laugh when people talked about Vettel's performance with STR, because the STR was faster than the RBR.

So we can admit that Adrian is human that can make mistakes and he is also fallible! The way people went on here I could be forgiven for thinking he shat diamonds and farted roses

Can you categorically tell us that Coulthard,Webber or any other person on both teams would consistently challenge for the title every season?

You can laugh about people lauding Seb's performance in the STR but a lot of truth is said in jest! Its only Vettel's exceptional performances that made people see anything good in that car in the first place

baby-boy:

The problem here is that Dr Dietrich Mateschitz hated Webber saying he is not good enough to drive for a top team, but When Webber joined RBR wasn’t a top team. RBR harldy complete their race and when Vettel collided with Webber in Turkey 2012, that’s when the decision was made that the car will be built around Vettel’s driving style.

So how was Webber able to last 7 years at Red Bull if Dr Mateschitz hated him so much? Do you have any direct quotes or are these just rumors?
I'm sure Dr Mateschitz was also the reason why Webber could only qualify 5th in the most important race of his career? He is also the reason why he was stuck behind Alonso and Petrov for over 30 laps as well?
You are not an insider at Red Bull so there is no way on earth you can prove to me the car was designed to suit Vettel since their crash at Turkey also assuming the car was designed to suit Vettel then how is it that he was trailing Webber even up till the race at Abu Dhabi?

Why won't you guys just admit Vettel is the better driver! He has proven it too many times

baby-boy:

The 2010 title was won on a counter, from Japan another team would have support Webber but RBR did what Ferrari did to Eddie Irvine in 1999, when they had the chance to help Eddie to win the WDC after Schumacher broke his legs, instead of asking Schumacher to let Eddie pass and take 2nd place and win the title, but they said “they will wait another year” so that Schumacher could win the WDC. RBR did the same, it was a title that had both Lewis and Vettel as an outside bet to win the title, RBR tactically screwed Webber by calling him in early for a pit stop knowing that both Rosberg, Petrov, both STR drivers and another have pitted after the safety car and knowing that they are on tires that’s going to take them to the end of the race, and the fools Ferrari tried to cover Webbers and pitted Alonso and got him also into the same mess.

Why support Webber when Vettel was still in with a fighter's chance? From the sheer number of poles it was obvious the kid could drive
Had Red Bull backed Webber they would have lost that Championship! Its as simple as that! Claiming RBR screwed Webber is laughable since he had zero chance of winning that race! He struggled all weekend and could only qualify 5th! Come race day he was busy staring at Alonso and Petrov's exhaust pipes so how he was screwed beggars belief as Vettel led for 39 laps and was certainly not under any threat from Webber. I fail to find any correlation with Eddie Irvine's example

baby-boy:

The magnificent RB7 that had everything blowing everywhere to maximise the down force of the car, flexible wing front wing etc. a car designed to Vettel’s driving style, cruised to the title but some interesting incidents also happened that season, in the Wet at Silverstone Vettel has destroyed his tires but Webber was told to maintain his distance some laps to the end of the race and the same at Suzuka Japan when it look like Webber could snatch 3rd place from Vettel despite the fact that the title has been won. In Korea Jaime Alguersuari contract wasn’t renewed because he couldn’t get out of the way when Vettel was doing his flying lap and prevented Vettel getting pole, Dr Dietrich Mateschitz showed his displeasure towards the Spaniard and the young driver lost his seat.

Haba! Which kin zobo be dis? So RBR would not renew a driver's contract because of a single racing incident and not because of a more plausible reason which was because he couldn't hack it?
If he was not a mediocre driver why has no other team signed him? Surely a young promising driver would not be approaching his 3rd year without a team

Webber had his chance to win it all with both drivers on equal footing yet Vettel outperformed him on both occasions

baby-boy:

because of Webber's size and weight he gets a smaller KERS battery, his clutch bit is different because of his height but all in all he was royally screwed by Hoener and Dr Dietrich Mateschitz for the German driver

Conspiracy theory at best! Nobody was screwed! Vettel is the better driver

Every car is usually tailored to each driver's preference! Red Bull have nothing to gain by screwing Webber as they need his points to win the Constructor's Championship

baby-boy:

In 2012 the EDB was banned and uptil Singapore when Adrian Newey built a new rear wing that was blowing like an EBD Vettel (but was legal) Vettel was trailing Alonso and McLaren with who had reliability issues mostly with pit stops and Lewis announcing that he was leaving got them to shift attention away from Lewis to Button and kept Lewis away from the garage from seeing what’s being developed because had 3 retirements from winning positions, but the new wing gave Vettel all the advantage in the world to win in Singapore, Japan, India.

Was that the sole reason he was trailing?

baby-boy:

All in all you could see that apart from the rocket, the RB7 that flew through the season, without the team using Webber as a guinea-pig in 2010 or the new wing in 2012 that saved Vettels season, even this season (2013) up-till the tyre change in Canada that got both Hoener and Newey crying like a canary mostly after the Spanish GP (Mercedes also cried as well) Vettel has been blowing hot and cold, Last years tires was brought in and this brought Vettel back into play.

Loool @ Webber being used as a guinea pig in 2010 this is simply not true! How can you even suggest that Red Bull gave preferential treatment to a driver that never led the title race till the final day?
This does not make sense in any universe

So if something so simple as a wing could change the course of a whole season don't you think other rivals could have given it a shot? You are over simplifying things!

No mention of Alonso's retirements? And Vettel who had alternator issues that put him in that deficit as well? These things even themselves out!

What do you mean by brought Vettel back into play? At what point in this season was he out of play? Up to the Spanish GP he had two wins! Was coasting to victory till his car let him down at Silverstone so what do you mean by hot and cold? Everyone was complaining about the tyres even Ferrari were among the biggest complainants

Please let's be objective with our analysis here

baby-boy:

Yes Vettel is a very good driver but just like MBJ has said let’s see him in another car without the brains of the genius called Adrian Newey and they way the treated Webber leaves a bitter taste but Alonso and Ferrari are also the same thats why I was happy Vettel won the 2010 title after what happened in Germany with Ferrari asking Massa to move over.

Vettel does not have to go to any car to prove himself! Vettel has nothing to prove even if he never wins a title he is going down in F1 folklore. Alonso,Hamilton,Raikkonen have also not won with other cars yet I don't see anyone questioning their talent

Newey has lost to other designers in his career! F1 is a team sport no driver deserves sole credit same way no designer deserves sole credit

Interesting

If Lewis never wins another WDC then Que Sera he is simply not good enough

Thats fair enough, James Hunt only one WDC in an epic battle against Lauda, John Surtee won one title, one Indy 500, Moto GP 250, 500, Le Mans............. Mansell won 1 title

The same McLaren that was the fastest car in 07 and 08 as well? Didn't Hamilton come 2nd in his rookie year and win the title in his sophomore? Was that car designed by Newey too? 2010 and 2012 McLaren also had a very good car if they were not reliable its hardly Vettel's fault he also had reliability issues

Wow as they say Knowledge is power!

The McLaren MP4-21 that was designed by Adrian Newey for Kimi was slightly altered for the McLaren MP4-22 that was driven by Lewis Hamilton in 2007, the 2008 McLaren MP4-23 still had features of the McLaren MP4-21 but due to the allegation of the Ferrari details been found with McLaren employees they had to design a new car but still using the old chassis. McLaren wasnt the fastest car in 2008 McLaren had 3 fastest laps in 18 races compared to Ferrari's 13 and BMW's 2, in 2007 Ferrari had 11 to McLaren's 6

Who were the elite drivers at the time? Surely you have to agree that the quality on the field now is not what it was then

Really!!!!

They had faster cars, with more powerful engines back then, No KERS, No Traction system, No DRS, No differentials, refuelling and harder tyres, dear devil driving. To win with a Ford Zetec V8 engine when the rest of the field was using either a V10 or V12 Ferrari or Renault engine.

The current car engine is a 2.4 V8, so do you think Vettel could win in a 2.4 V6 engine?

Hell No he would struggle to beat a Catenham!

Why support Webber when Vettel was still in with a fighter's chance?

Like I said the 2010 WDC was more like a title Alonso handed over due to the brain fart in the team because Alonso started in 3rd position he only needed 5th position to win the WDC but finished 7th.....

he had zero chance of winning that race!

Really? Webber didn't need to win the race, to win the title he only need 3rd place and be ahead of Alonso, so tell why did they bring him in on lap 11 on a tyre that his rivals took to lap 25 to 30 (Button used his tires to lap 40) common that's been royally screwed!!!

Every car is usually tailored to each driver's preference! Red Bull have nothing to gain by screwing Webber as they need his points to win the Constructor's Championship

Oh dear!!!

Up to the Spanish GP he had two wins

Name the 2 wins Vettel had before Catalunya race in 2012? or you talking about 2013

Silverstone Ross Brawn said it would have been an easy win for Lewis

Everyone was complaining about the tyres even Ferrari were among the biggest complainants

That was Redbull and Merc, Ferrari only complained about the Merc illegal testing

Like I said Vettel very good driver, but