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Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa - Culture (9) - Nairaland

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Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 1:59pm On Apr 23, 2013
The king of Allada in 1900:

[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1161494&t=w[/img]

Le roi d'Allada. (1900)

Image Details

Image Title
: Le roi d'Allada.

Additional Name(s)
: Fonssagrives, Jean Baptiste Joseph Marie Pascal -- Author

Specific Material Type
: Prints

Item/Page/Plate
: 13

Source
: Notice sur le Dahomey. Publiee a l'occasion de l'Expostion universelle sous la direction de m. Pierre Pascal. Par m. Jean Fonssagrives.

Source Description
: 408 p. illus., ports., map. 24 cm.

Location
: Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture / General Research and Reference Division
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 2:14pm On Apr 23, 2013
Below is an image of a gate leading into the Yoruba town of Ketu in the Republic of Benin (formerly Dahomey). The photo is from 1909.



Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 2:27pm On Apr 23, 2013


Sculpted columns in the palace of the king of Ketu. The date is from between 1908 and 1912.
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 2:34pm On Apr 23, 2013


An image of a gate leading into Ketu, with different thatching on the roof. I'm not sure of the date of this photo unfortunately but I think it would be safe to assume it is also from the early 1900s. This gate is designated the "old gate" in the caption to the picture, so maybe this gate preceded the other one or maybe they were both around together but this one was older. Strangely, I only found this image on eBay (where someone is selling the postcard containing the image).


edit: Some interesting information about Ketu from Robert Smith's book Kingdoms of the Yoruba (1988):

"Today the most striking feature of Ketu, now a remote and neglected town, it its fortifications, comprising a circuit of massive earthen walls, still in some places over twelve feet in height and nearly as broad, outer ditches to a depth of some eight or nine feet and twenty feet wide, planted with thorns, and above all the great Idena ('Sentry') Gate, a fortress in itself with inner and outer covered gateways and a central courtyard, certainly the most impressive example of Yoruba military architecture in existence. Ketu historians attribute the building of these fortifications to Sha, the fourteenth Alaketu, and add that the oba himself supervised the work, which was accomplished by the townspeople with the aid of two giants living nearby. The Idena Gate is said to stand upon the place where Ede first entered the site of his new capital and where later a hunchbacked weaver, one of those already living on the spot when the immigrants from Ife arrived, was killed as a propitiatory sacrifice - a circumstance from which the town and the kingdom are said to derive their name (a proverb in the form of a riddle: Ke 'tu ike? Ke fo ilu?: 'Who can straighten a hunchback's hump? Who can break our town?'). Sha's successor, Alaketu Epo, completed the fortifications, and it is claimed that to give strength to the walls the clay was mixed with palm oil instead of water." - Kingdoms of the Yoruba, p.57

(Ede mentioned above was the seventh Alaketu, or king of Ketu.)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 2:44pm On Apr 23, 2013
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/6/0/40698_images_image_6010_medium.jpg[/img]

Publication: 1920. Schnee, Heinrich. "Togo." Deutsches Kolonial-Lexikon: III Band P-Z , Vol. 3.

Original language: German

Caption translation: In reference to the article: Togo. 7. Axe used to divert lightening (Ewe).

Text translation: The head of the axe (depicting a predator) used to divert lightening in fig. 7 and the rooster in fig. 10 are also technically remarkable. A few examples of the belief in the soul in nature can be seen in the colored plate Togo, fig. 7 … The strangely formed axe (see colored plate Togo, fig. 7) curiously functions to also divert lightening. It is fastened in tall trees very close to houses and is trusted to function. Perhaps this use originated when the axes were made of stone, but that the belief remained when the stone was replaced by metal.” (p. 513)

Illustration technique: studio photograph; color

Publication page: opp. 504

Publication plate/figure: plate; figure 7

Keywords:
• Togo (Country, region, place)
• pigment (Materials and techniques)
• metal (Materials and techniques)
• wood (Materials and techniques)
• open mouth (Notable features)
• figurated handle (Notable features)
• recade ? (Object name, type)
• ceremonial axe (Object name, type)
• kpo ? (Object name, type)
• Ewe (Style, culture group)


(I'm not sure if this is one of the 'mankpo' mentioned earlier by TerraCotta or if it's actually a tool the Ewe once used as some kind of lightning rod like the writer suggests, or if it is possibly both.)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 2:53pm On Apr 23, 2013
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/3/4/64697_images_image_3480_image.jpg[/img]

Publication: 1882. "Berichte der Reisenden der Gesellschaft. Die Buchner'sche Expedition." Mittheilungen der Afrikanischen Gesellschaft in Deutschland, Vol. III, No. 2 (April).

Original language: German

Caption translation: Mittheilungen der Afrikanischen Gesellschaft in Deutschland, vol. III, plate 7. [Upper left:] Granary from the destroyed Ubaka. b Seal for the opening a;c Ladder. [Upper middle:] Kitchen in Ubaka [Upper right:] Details from the kitchen in Ubaka. [Below left:] Wall and gate in Labagu. (Fulde.) [Below middle:] Wall and gate in Tondi (Jaurie) [Below right:] Wall and gate in Dugu (border location in Jaurie.)

Text translation: "Plate 7. In the granary in Ubaka, Flegel noted that the lock equiped with a grip (b) was installed (a). In the kitchen he described (a) more large, built in containers, that serve brewed beers, (b) the fireplace, (c) a built in, granite plate to grind grain. The wall depicted below, next to the 'door house,' also lacks a commentary on the original sketch. It appears noteworthy, because the wall does not consist of a homogenous mass like common walls, but is made of irregular pieces. They are probably made of raw, unfired clay bricks." (p. 146)

Illustration technique: studio engraving; printed in sepia ink

Keywords:
• Nigeria (Country, region, place)
• Bida (Country, region, place)
• Ubaka (Country, region, place)
• Yauri (Country, region, place)
• earth (Materials and techniques)
• clay (Materials and techniques)
• architecture (Notable features)
• crocodiles (Notable features)
• house (Notable features)
• threshold (Object name, type)
• gateway ornament (Object name, type)
• pillars (Object name, type)
• relief figures (Object name, type)
• Hausa (Style, culture group)
• Nupe (Style, culture group)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 2:59pm On Apr 23, 2013
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/2/0/74520_images_image_2097_medium.jpg[/img]

Publication: 1904. Lönborg, Sven and Heinrich Schurtz. "Primitiva samhällen." YMER: Tidskrift, Utgifven af Svenska Sallskapet for Antropologi och Geografi, No. Heft 3.

Original language: Swedish

Caption translation: Fig. 6. The interior of a community house among the Yaunde in Cameroon. (After F. Hutter)

Text translation: The development into secret societies stands in very close connection to the belief in the deceased spirits and in the possibility of entering into a connection with them, and it is therefore not difficult to understand why Africa has become the classic ground for secret societies. [F/N 1] Especially in West Africa these societies have developed strongly. In northern Cameroon they grow “like mushrooms from the earth after a spring rain,” to disappear just as quickly.” (pp. 515-153) ------ [F/N 1] On this see Frobenius, Die Masken und Geheimbünde Afrikas (diss. German Imperial Academy, Halle 1898) and the presentation in his popular work “Aus den Flegeljahren der Menschheit” (From the Youth of Humanity), Hannover 1901.

Illustration technique: field engraving

Keywords:
• Cameroon (Country, region, place)
• pigment (Materials and techniques)
• wood (Materials and techniques)
• totemic (Notable features)
• figurated (Notable features)
• men's lodge (Notable features)
• column (Object name, type)
• pole (Object name, type)
• house post (Object name, type)
• Ewondo (Style, culture group)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 3:05pm On Apr 23, 2013
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/9/85831_images_image_955_medium.jpg[/img]

Publication: 1902. M'Keown, Robert L. In the Land of the Oil Rivers. The Story of the Qua Iboe Mission.

Original language: English

Caption: Members of a Secret Society Masked and Dressed for a Play

Text: “Free-Masonry in Ibibioland. The great feature in the life of the Ibibios is the existence of so many secret societies. Some of these, like the great, dread, Akpan-Oyoho, are civil in their functions, the members framing and executing the laws of the district; others, like the Idiong, are of a religious nature, and carry on sacrifices and rites connected with worship. Then there are the Ekpo, and the Ekong, and many others, even the women having an order all to themselves. Initiation into any of these societies mentioned here is extremely costly, but the fee for entrance into some of the others is very trifling. The members of all these societies spend much of their time in native plays.” (pp. 38-39)

Illustration technique: b/w studio photograph

Publication page: 109

Keywords:
• Nigeria (Country, region, place)
• fabric (Materials and techniques)
• feathers (Materials and techniques)
• pigment (Materials and techniques)
• carved wood (Materials and techniques)
• feathered headdress (Notable features)
• masqueraders (Notable features)
• masks (Object name, type)
• masquerade costumes (Object name, type)
• Ibibio-Efik (Style, culture group)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 3:08pm On Apr 23, 2013
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/4/1/51591_images_image_4143_medium.jpg[/img]

Publication: 1900. Marriott, H.P. Fitz-Gerald. "A West African Tribe and its Secret Societies." The English Illustrated Magazine, Vol. XXII, No. 198.

Caption: Initiation Dress of the Egbo Secret Society of the Ibibio Tribe

Text: In most West African districts, you will find that the boys of the better classes are taken away at a certain age--between ten or fourteen--to prepare them for the responsibilities of manhood. They are placed in the charge of those leaders of the tribe who direct the initiation ceremonies of the secret society....The boys are kept in a portion of the forest sacred to the society where none dare go but the members....Here the lads are kept for a period varying...from several weeks to a year. Whenever they leave the sacred bush with the rest of the procession they are disguised in their initiation dresses , such as the one in our Illustration. This belonged to the Egbo of the Ibibio tribe; it is composed of twisted fibre of the Raffia palm closely knitted together, a pattern being produced by some of the threads being dyed red and others black. Together with its hood, it is all made in one piece, and you slip into it though a hole at the chest. The hands and feet are hidden in a thick fringe of grass, and falling over the shoulders and mask is a mane of the same herb. The wooden masks that these initiates wear are either white or coloured, but not pure black all over; the latter are only worn by the full Egbo members. One of the white masks is seen worn by the boy in the initiation dress. (pp570-571)

Illustration technique: b/w studio photograph

Publication page: 571

Keywords:
• Nigeria (Country, region, place)
• raffia (Materials and techniques)
• carved wood (Materials and techniques)
• fiber netting (Materials and techniques)
• pigment (Materials and techniques)
• fringe (Notable features)
• Ekpo mask (Object name, type)
• masquerade costume (Object name, type)
• Ibibio (Style, culture group)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 3:13pm On Apr 23, 2013
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/4/7/68212_images_image_4725_medium.jpg[/img]

Publication: 1900. Webster, W.D. Illustrated Catalogue of Ethnological Specimens. European and Eastern Arms and Armour. Prehistoric and Other Curiosities, Vol. vol 4, No. 25.

Caption: 34. (8831) Carved wood figure with movable joints, pounding corn, decorated in black and white, 13 inches high. (Niger Protectorate)

Illustration technique: b/w studio photograph

Publication plate/figure: plate 31; fig. 34

Keywords:
• Nigeria (Country, region, place)
• pigment (Materials and techniques)
• carved wood (Materials and techniques)
• movable joints (Notable features)
• pounding corn (Notable features)
• articulated limbs (Notable features)
• puppet (Object name, type)
• sculpture (Object name, type)
• seated figure (Object name, type)
• Anang (Style, culture group)
• Ibibio (Style, culture group)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 3:15pm On Apr 23, 2013
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/3/8/61487_images_image_3893_medium.jpg[/img]

Publication: 1913. Oldman, W.O. Illustrated Catalogue of Ethnographic Specimens, Vol. X, No. 125 (August).

Caption: AFRICA. FETISH MASKS ETC. 5 (30987) Ditto; circular, light wood coloured yellow, black and white. Slightly pierced with worm holes. Fibre bindings on back. 22cm dia. S. Nigeria.

Illustration technique: studio photograph

Keywords:
• Nigeria (Country, region, place)
• raffia (Materials and techniques)
• carved (Materials and techniques)
• pigment (Materials and techniques)
• wood (Materials and techniques)
• round (Notable features)
• mask (Object name, type)
• Eket (Style, culture group)
• Ibibio (Style, culture group)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 3:22pm On Apr 23, 2013
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/5/1/46467_images_image_5126_medium.jpg[/img]

Publication: 1908. Rütimeyer, L. "Weitere Mitteilungen über West-Afrikanische Steinidole (Mit Tafel VIII & IX, sowie zwei Abb. im Text)." Internationales Archiv für Ethnographie., Vol. Bande XVIII.

Original language: German

Caption translation: Basalt stones from Agba (South Nigeria) decorated with sculptures. From Partridge, Cross River Natives P. 269.

Text translation: “The interesting question of who the producers of these stone pictures were unfortunately remains unanswered in these new findings. But in one important regard I must modify the view I expressed in 1901, that an old stonework from Mendi Land was an isolated instance of a real Negro tribe creating sculpture from stone. This view has meanwhile been surpassed by the interesting finding of Partridge, Assistant District Commissioner in South Nigeria, who in 1905 discovered and described the strange monolithic ring stones in the region of the Cross River at the tributary of the Aweyong. It is at these holy places that generally conical, 3 – 5 foot high stone columns are placed, usually around a large central tree. These stones are basalt, which comes from surrounding gravel in streams. Many of these are decorated with chiseled human figures, depicted until just below the navel. The figures are mostly stylized; here the prominent navel and tribal markings are typical.” (p. 174)

Illustration technique: b/w field photograph

Keywords:
• Cross River (Country, region, place)
• agba (Country, region, place)
• Nigeria (Country, region, place)
• basalt (Materials and techniques)
• incised (Materials and techniques)
• carved (Materials and techniques)
• anthropomorphic (Notable features)
• monolith (Object name, type)
• protruding navel (Object name, type)
• stone monument (Object name, type)
• ancestor memorial (Object name, type)
• Ejagham (Style, culture group)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsMHD(m): 3:27pm On Apr 23, 2013
[img]http://raai.library.yale.edu/web/art/5/1/20854_images_image_5128_medium.jpg[/img]

Publication: 1908. Rütimeyer, L. "Weitere Mitteilungen über West-Afrikanische Steinidole (Mit Tafel VIII & IX, sowie zwei Abb. im Text)." Internationales Archiv für Ethnographie., Vol. Bande XVIII.

Original language: German

Illustrator: , Bottom right reads: Lichtdruckanstalt Alfred Ditishein, Basel [Alfred Ditishein Institute for Photolithography, Basel]

Illustration technique: b/w studio photograph

Keywords:
• Sierra Leone (Country, region, place)
• Cameroon (Country, region, place)
• steatite (Materials and techniques)
• carved stone (Materials and techniques)
• soapstone (Materials and techniques)
• wood (Materials and techniques)
• clasped hands (Notable features)
• crouching (Notable features)
• double figure (Object name, type)
• head (Object name, type)
• bust (Object name, type)
• janus figure (Object name, type)
• nomoli (Object name, type)
• pomdo (Object name, type)
• sculpture (Object name, type)
• statuette (Object name, type)
• Bakundu ? (Style, culture group)
• Kissi (Style, culture group)
• Mende (Style, culture group)
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by Nobody: 3:43pm On Apr 23, 2013
Africans love their wrapper! kiss
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by esere826: 9:54pm On Apr 23, 2013
@Physicsqed

Any idea on when Nigerians started making fabric?
What type of fabric was being made?
Before fabric, what was being used for clothes?
arond what period did the change in material come abour?

Tnx
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 7:22am On Apr 24, 2013
esere826: @Physicsqed

Any idea on when Nigerians started making fabric?
What type of fabric was being made?
Before fabric, what was being used for clothes?
arond what period did the change in material come abour?

Tnx

I honestly don't have clear answers to these questions, but I would assume that the Nok culture or whatever preceded the Nok culture probably had nobles/elites/rulers who wore fabric of some sort, although I doubt that any of it would have survived up to this day without disintegrating and becoming dirt.

1 Like

Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 7:24am On Apr 24, 2013
When I return to this thread, more images of 19th century Timbuktu and some historical images of Djenne will be posted.
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PAPAAFRICA: 7:30am On Apr 24, 2013
PhysicsQED: When I return to this thread, more images of 19th century Timbuktu and some historical images of Djenne will be posted.
Why were you banned from historum?
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 8:41am On Apr 24, 2013
PAPA AFRICA: Why were you banned from historum?

lol, some mod must not have liked my post responding to some British guy who wrote a bunch of garbage about certain precolonial African states in one thread there. I certainly can't think of any other reason.

I only registered on there to correct some trash that some very ill-informed British guy was writing about Benin (the kingdom, not the country), the kingdoms of the western Sudan (ancient Ghana, Mali and Songhai), and African art and architecture in general, etc. After that, I would have been done posting on that forum. I had come across the forum before that but left and never registered because it was mostly about European history (the way the subsections of the world history section are divided is proof enough of that) and not really all of world history, and also it's kind of a boring and slow moving forum.

I noticed a few spelling and punctuation errors in the long first post that I made there responding to the British guy, and I could no longer modify the original post, so I just added a post below indicating what the correct spellings and punctuation should have been in the long post that I made immediately above.

Then one random moderator (who I had never interacted with before) banned me for "trolling" without giving any kind of warning or explanation or even mentioning which post it was that I made which qualified as "trolling". I don't think there's anywhere else I've come across where anyone would be silly enough to claim that indicating what spelling and punctuation errors were made in a long earlier post that can't be corrected is some form of trolling.

And in another section of the forum, they had an entire thread devoted to defining what actually constitutes "trolling," (apparently it's a big issue over there) and after several pages of discussion and argument, they still couldn't reach a consensus.

I think a lot of the posters on that forum are actually old guys (one guy even posted a picture of himself in a project/experiment he was working on about ancient painting techniques and he was old and had grey hair in the picture) and they don't understand some of the "newfangled" internet lingo younger people are using, such as the word "trolling." Maybe they think that if someone posts something that you just don't like then that person is trolling. grin

Anyway, I have another completely different username on that site, so if I suddenly decide to go back there to post something, I can still post there anyway. grin grin

1 Like

Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by pleep(m): 6:24pm On Apr 24, 2013
^ haha, that sounds like an interesting sight tho

Do they have good debates about military tactics and weapons? that kinda stuff is hard to bring up on nairaland.
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 11:27pm On Apr 24, 2013
pleep: ^ haha, that sounds like an interesting sight tho

Do they have good debates about military tactics and weapons? that kinda stuff is hard to bring up on nairaland.

There is a subsection dedicated specifically to military history and some of the threads in sections outside of that sub-forum occasionally mention or segue into military history as well. They do have some interesting debates about military tactics and weapons, and some of the information about Middle Eastern and east or south Asian military or political history is occasionally interesting (although the focus of the forum is still primarily on European/western history), but like I said before, it is a slow moving forum. So if you engage in a drawn out debate with somebody about something, a response might not come for hours.

Another problem is that many of the posters there who do comment on Africa - even seemingly intelligent and rational ones - seem to have a pretty distorted view of the history and capabilities of many precolonial African societies, so it would be a bit frustrating to even bother attempting to correct every misconception they have. I've seen a few black posters there attempting to overturn the tide of ignorance in some threads, but that might have little effect overall. If it were up to me, everyone who commented seriously on African history there would have to have at least read the first 6 volumes of the 8 volume Cambridge History of Africa, if they've read nothing else on African history. I say this only because some people who stumble on the site like I did might take some of the claims ill informed people make on that forum as factual or as informed opinions when some of the posters there commenting on Africa (especially pre-colonial Africa) have clearly read little to nothing on African history.

One thing I will admit that I thought was nice were the "titles" for posters. Members have titles under their names based on the number of posts they have (or at least I think that's what it's based on), such as "citizen" (lowest title), "academician" (slightly higher), "historian", "archivist", "contrarian", etc. I know this title/rank stuff is done on many other forums as well and that it has no real significance on that forum or elsewhere, but I did like the particular names they chose for the different titles.
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by esere826: 12:30am On Apr 25, 2013
PhysicsQED:

I honestly don't have clear answers to these questions, but I would assume that the Nok culture or whatever preceded the Nok culture probably had nobles/elites/rulers who wore fabric of some sort, although I doubt that any of it would have survived up to this day without disintegrating and becoming dirt.

Tnx
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by pleep(m): 2:03am On Apr 25, 2013
PhysicsQED:

There is a subsection dedicated specifically to military history and some of the threads in sections outside of that sub-forum occasionally mention or segue into military history as well. They do have some interesting debates about military tactics and weapons, and some of the information about Middle Eastern and east or south Asian military or political history is occasionally interesting (although the focus of the forum is still primarily on European/western history), but like I said before, it is a slow moving forum. So if you engage in a drawn out debate with somebody about something, a response might not come for hours.

Another problem is that many of the posters there who do comment on Africa - even seemingly intelligent and rational ones - seem to have a pretty distorted view of the history and capabilities of many precolonial Africa societies, so it would be a bit frustrating to even bother attempting to correct every misconception they have. I've seen a few black posters there attempting to overturn the tide of ignorance in some threads, but that might have little effect overall. If it were up to me, everyone who commented seriously on African history there would have to have at least read the first 6 volumes of the 8 volume Cambridge History of Africa, if they've read nothing else on African history. I say this only because some people who stumble on the site like I did might take some of the claims ill informed people make on that forum as factual or as informed opinions when some of the posters there commenting on Africa (especially pre-colonial Africa) have clearly read little to nothing on African history.

One thing I will admit that I thought was nice were the "titles" for posters. Members have titles under their names based on the number of posts they have (or at least I think that's what it's based on), such as "citizen" (lowest title), "academician" (slightly higher), "historian", "archivist", "contrarian", etc. I know this title/rank stuff is done on many other forums as well and that it has no real significance on that forum or elsewhere, but I did like the particular names they chose for the different titles.
@ The bolded, you have read all that? hmmmm... you are defintely by far the most learned person on African history i have ever encountered. And your posts are fact based and generally seem to be free of Afrocentric "black jesus" fluff.

Were your posts seen as un-credible?

Is that how these people perceive any information that deviates from the standard "Africa was always a jungle" narrative?

Unfortunately that is how African history seems to be veiwd by alot of people. Basically as revisionist black pride, and thats why i try to avoid the subject

Anyway i think i will check that forum out, western history has always been my forte. Been looking for a place to discuss my theory on why Napoleon was a fool for not attacking Saint Petersberg instead of Moscow.

Oh what fun that will be grin
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 2:38am On Apr 25, 2013
pleep: @ The bolded, you have read all that? hmmmm... you are defintely by far the most learned person on African history i have ever encountered. And your posts are fact based and generally seem to be free of Afrocentric "black jesus" fluff.

lol, thanks but history isn't my focus professionally and there are definitely people who know much more than me - usually African history professors, lecturers, grad students, etc. so if you meet some of those people at a university with a good program on African history, you'll almost certainly have automatically met people who are more learned than me on African history. And yes, I've read that series (all 8 volumes). It's a very good read and I strongly recommend it. I doubt that it's flawless or anything, but it does seem to have few errors or mistakes for such a lengthy work, and it has a great deal of interesting information. Another good series of general history books is UNESCO's General History of Africa series, which also seems to not have many errors in each volume for such a lengthy series.

Were your posts seen as un-credible?

I only made a few posts there before that one random mod banned me, and only one of them (the first post I made) was really a detailed post on history. The other posts, besides that spelling/punctuation post, were just casual comments on other things. Nobody in that thread attempted to rebut the first post that I made (I don't see how they could have anyway, since I relied entirely on facts) and the posters that commented on the thread after my post generally continued the discussion in another direction, leaving the issue of precolonial African development, architecture, art, etc. alone and discussing more current affairs.

Is that how these people perceive any information that deviates from the standard "Africa was always a jungle" narrative?

Not necessarily. There were a few more objective comments that I came across from the non-black posters, but I didn't read the entire forum or anything. It's just that there seem to be many posters there who seem clueless about even the basics of African history yet insist on commenting on it or using it to make comparisons. It was usually the few black posters on that site that I saw correcting those other posters when something ridiculous or blatantly and obviously false was said, but I think it's really a pointless uphill battle.

Unfortunately that is how African history seems to be veiwd by alot of people. Basically as revisionist black pride, and thats why i try to avoid the subject

This is basically true, unfortunately. From some experiences I've had on this forum and in real life, I've learned that even some Africans and black people in the West will act as if you're exaggerating or engaging in revisionism when you talk about African history, unless you show them eye witness descriptions and accounts from centuries ago that prove what you're talking about or show impressive images that corroborate what you're trying to get across. And even then, a few people, whether black or non-black, will deny the evidence and act like you're engaging in some sort of revisionism.

Anyway i think i will check that forum out, western history has always been my forte. Been looking for a place to discuss my theory on why Napoleon was a fool for not attacking Saint Petersberg instead of Moscow.

Oh what fun that will be grin

lol, alright. Good luck with that forum. Hope you get into some interesting debates.
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 5:44pm On Apr 28, 2013
[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1267699&t=w[/img]

Jenne (1897)

Image Details

Image Title
: Jenne.

Additional Name(s)
: Dubois, Félix, b. 1862 -- Author

Item/Page/Plate
: p. 139

Source
: Timbuctoo the mysterious / by Felix Dubois; translated from the French by Diana White ...

Source Description
: xi, 377 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 23 cm.

Location
: Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture / General Research and Reference Division
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 5:44pm On Apr 28, 2013
[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1267685&t=w[/img]

House in Jenne. (1897)

Image Details

Image Title
: House in Jenne.

Additional Name(s)
: Dubois, Félix, b. 1862 -- Author

Item/Page/Plate
: p. 84

Source
: Timbuctoo the mysterious / by Felix Dubois; translated from the French by Diana White ...

Source Description
: xi, 377 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 23 cm.
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 5:45pm On Apr 28, 2013
[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1267687&t=w[/img]

House in Jenne. (1897)

Image Title
: House in Jenne.

Additional Name(s)
: Dubois, Félix, b. 1862 -- Author

Item/Page/Plate
: p. 86

Source
: Timbuctoo the mysterious / by Felix Dubois; translated from the French by Diana White ...

Source Description
: xi, 377 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 23 cm.
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 5:46pm On Apr 28, 2013
[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1267688&t=w[/img]

A street in Jenne. (1897)

Image Title
: A street in Jenne.

Additional Name(s)
: Dubois, Félix, b. 1862 -- Author

Item/Page/Plate
: p. 87

Source
: Timbuctoo the mysterious / by Felix Dubois; translated from the French by Diana White ...

Source Description
: xi, 377 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 23 cm.


Subjects and Names

Cities & towns -- Africa
Djenné (Mali)
Dubois, Félix
Streets
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 5:47pm On Apr 28, 2013
[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1267690&t=w[/img]

Houses in Jenne. (1897)

Image Title
: Houses in Jenne.

Additional Name(s)
: Dubois, Félix, b. 1862 -- Author

Item/Page/Plate
: p. 92

Source
: Timbuctoo the mysterious / by Felix Dubois; translated from the French by Diana White ...

Source Description
: xi, 377 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 23 cm.

Subjects and Names

Cities & towns -- Africa
Djenné (Mali)
Dubois, Félix
Dwellings -- Africa
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 5:48pm On Apr 28, 2013
[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1267693&t=w[/img]

A house in Jenne. (1897)

Image Title
: A house in Jenne.

Additional Name(s)
: Dubois, Félix, b. 1862 -- Author

Item/Page/Plate
: p. 108

Source
: Timbuctoo the mysterious / by Felix Dubois; translated from the French by Diana White ...

Source Description
: xi, 377 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 23 cm.


Subjects and Names

Djenné (Mali)
Dubois, Félix
Dwellings -- Africa
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 5:50pm On Apr 28, 2013
[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1267694&t=w[/img]

View of Jenne. (1897)

Image Title
: View of Jenne.

Additional Name(s)
: Dubois, Félix, b. 1862 -- Author

Item/Page/Plate
: p. 111

Source
: Timbuctoo the mysterious / by Felix Dubois; translated from the French by Diana White ...

Source Description
: xi, 377 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 23 cm.


Subjects and Names

Cities & towns -- Africa
Djenné (Mali)
Dubois, Félix
Re: Interesting Images From Precolonial And Early Colonial Africa by PhysicsQED(m): 5:50pm On Apr 28, 2013
[img]http://images.nypl.org/index.php?id=1267695&t=w[/img]

A corner in Jenne. (1897)

Image Title
: A corner in Jenne.

Additional Name(s)
: Dubois, Félix, b. 1862 -- Author

Item/Page/Plate
: p. 119

Source
: Timbuctoo the mysterious / by Felix Dubois; translated from the French by Diana White ...

Source Description
: xi, 377 p. : ill., maps, plans ; 23 cm.

Subjects and Names

Cities & towns -- Africa
Djenné (Mali)
Dubois, Félix

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