Evil Confirms Absence Of God. - Religion (5) - Nairaland
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| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 7:25pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
aManFromMars:  |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 7:31pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Joshthefirst:Dwell on it. It will make sense after a while. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 7:34pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
aManFromMars:smh. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 7:39pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: smh.You need help figuring it out? What is a god? |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 7:45pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
aManFromMars:a supreme being. That's what that verse was talking about isn't it(its an innocent question). noun 1. the one Supreme Being, the creator and ruler of the universe. 2. the Supreme Being considered with reference to a particular attribute: the God of Islam. 3. one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 8:02pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: a supreme being. Apply the 3rd definition to Jesus's quote I posted. ''Ye are gods'' Gen 1 26 Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.” 27 So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them. 28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” 29 Then God said, “I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds in the sky and all the creatures that move along the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food.” And it was so. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 8:09pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
aManFromMars:so?? What are you driving at? |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 8:11pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: so?? Was man created with a power to create, subdue and rule? Was God aware of what this power could do? THE IMPACT it could have if used wrongly? |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 8:15pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
aManFromMars:man only makes from available resources, not creates. And yes, God was and is still very aware of this formidable power and the consequences of using this power wrongly. God created man with an intellect. A superior one. One that connotes his very image. PS: this debunks every single claim that our intellect would be useless in heaven. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 8:18pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: man only makes from available resources, not creates. of course God is aware of the formidable power of man's creative ability.....God was scared of the tower of babel....  |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 8:20pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Logicboy03:I've explained the tower of babel issue many times. I'm sure enough people have grabbed the truth. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 8:22pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: I've explained the tower of babel issue many times. I'm sure enough people have grabbed the truth. What truth? that god was offended by the men's ability to build a tower into the sky? |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 8:27pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Logicboy03:why would almighty God be offended by their ability to build a tower? When men are busy building towers and entering space? Try to use energy to ask rational questions about Gods motives and judgements and decisions instead of wasting useful brainpower trying to discredit God . You just end up wasting your time sounding absurd and falling flat on your face like I said.1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 8:30pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: why would almighty God be offended by their ability to build a tower? When men are busy building towers and entering space? So what was the reason (pls back it up with scripture) God gave for spoiling the effort to build the tower |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Kay17: 8:44pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
@joshthefirst Since God is the ONLY creator and he is perfect/good, how then did evil/imperfection get into the world without another God? 1 Like |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 8:45pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Logicboy03: Genesis 6:The Wickedness and Judgment of Man 1 Now it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born to them, 2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men, that they were beautiful; and they took wives for themselves of all whom they chose. 3 And the Lord said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.” 4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. 5 Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. 6 And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” Sin grieves God, men's sin grieved God because he would have to judge them. Men were a single culture and on the basis of this, unrighteousness spread so much that it affected all except noah, who walked with God, and all men perished in the flood except him. The same thing was about to happen in the account of the tower. They were establishing themselves as one culture and people, and unrighteousness was bound to occur once more like before. God would have to judge them like before. To prevent them, he scattered them. It's better to scatter them and judge them differently and singly as different groups of peoples, than wipe most of humanity out again. Genesis 11:The Tower of Babel 1 Now the whole earth had one language and one speech. 2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there. 3 Then they said to one another, “Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar. 4 And they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth.” The bolded is what you should focus on. If they were allowed to be one people, if unrighteousness multiplied, they would have to be judged as one people, resulting in something like the flood disaster all over again. Genesis 11: 5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built. 6 And the Lord said, “Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them. 7 Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” 8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city. Do you see now? In scattering them, God prevented a world wide judgement from occuring again, at least before its time, in accordance with his promise to noah. Do you understand now? Any objections? |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 8:50pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Kay 17: @joshthefirsthookay!!! I now see where manfrommars was driving to! The bible says man became the god of this world, ie he had dominion over the earth. And he had freewill, that's how evil entered this world, through man's sin. Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28 Then God blessed them, and God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it; have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over every living thing that moves on the earth.” 29 And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so. 31 Then God saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Kay17: 11:02pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
^^ But how can Good be the source of Evil, since man was good via God. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 11:24pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
Kay 17: ^^man was good and has freewill. He chose to do evil. God is not the source of evil. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by MrTroll(m): 11:43pm On Nov 17, 2013 |
| My forehead is now red and my palms are sore. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 2:50am On Nov 18, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: I just knew that you would fail so hard if I asked you to defend your point using scripture. I like how you first started wtih a chapter that had nothing to do with the incident and tried to link it with the chapter that tqalked about the incident. The builders of the Tower of babel commited no sin apart from trying to build the highest tower.....God was scared of man's ingenuity. Sir, you are a remixer of the bible.....you cant even point out what sine these people committed... |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by DeepSight(m): 3:43am On Nov 18, 2013 |
Logicboy03: Actually it is better than that. My claim is that he did not understand or grasp the import of his own point, not mine. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 3:53am On Nov 18, 2013 |
Deep Sight: Yawn |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by DeepSight(m): 4:50am On Nov 18, 2013 |
plaetton: Now let us take a fine comb through this matter once and for all. The thread in question was one in which I posted some pictures and invited the thought's of viewers on the pictures: seeking an excercise in thought through pictorial arguments. You responded (in fact were the first to respond) by saying (i paraphrase you), that minds only see what they are conditioned to see, and as such, nothing objective could be deduced from the exercise. This is the prime reason that I contend that you do not even grasp your own statement: your statement devolved on mind, and its capacity to perceive and observe. Your statement was a comprehensive statement: you asserted that everything we see, is simply and only what we are conditioned to see. That which I have placed in red bold in the paragraph above is of critical importance in understanding this issue and should not be glossed over. For emphasis, I REPEAT: you asserted that everything we see, is simply and only what we are conditioned to see. And further: to buttress and prove your statement, i extract the exact quote of yours, word for word: and please note the bold - plaetton: May I be permitted to say that unlike modern computer hardware, the mind did not evolve a firewall to protect it from outside interference, influence or access. Mr. Queen, sir - I cannot over-emphasize the bold: and it is that which both yourself and those who agree with your take, miss entirely. I am not minded towards careless assumptions, and I take every element of a debate, discourse or argument seriously and into context. This, with respect, is exactly what you have failed to do: and this is why I say for the umpteenth time that you do not grasp the very import of your own words here. This is made worse by the trajectory of your post, in which you gave a historic-evolutionary context to your comments: thereby slamming your point home that the mind, as evolved, can only see that which it is conditioned to see. I am gratified that your comment takes note of the fact that it is the mind that actually sees, and not the eyes, and in so saying you therefore contend that everything that we see, is only what we have been conditioned to see. So now, settle down carefully: here is the simple point that I have labored to make from that thread all the way to this thread: if everything that we see (and remember it is the mind that sees) is only what we have been conditioned to see, please tell me what can ever be objectively known as true: remember - EVERYTHING (your words) that we see, is only what we have been conditioned to see. Indeed, you went so far as to describe what you meant by saying that external influence is critical in this "conditioning". My dear Plaetton, what is so sad in all of this is the fact that you completely miss my point. Did I revert to you arguing that the foregoing is not true? No! Indeed, my very first response to you stated clearly that all of that is in fact true. I however went further to point out that as a response, it nullifies every possible discussion, and applies equally to every possible contention. Indeed, I went so far as to point out to you that it is even good grounds to question our very existence, and even the objective existence of the world. If everything we see is only what we have been conditioned to see, then there is nothing in the world around us that we can determine objectively exists. Nothing whatsoever. It is all, and only, what we have been conditioned to see. This is why I argued very clearly that your contention was meaningless and escapist: for it applies equally to every fundamental statement of our existence that could possibly ever be made: if you come across me in the street today, and see me live and direct: it could be argued that that is only what you have been conditioned to see. Even this post sef, and every word you are reading herein, is only what you have been conditioned to see. Whatever affirmations you hear from other people, are also only what you have been conditioned to hear. Remember, it is still the mind at play here, as you stated: and its conditioning. I fervently hope you see the point here now: and duly recognize that there is nothing frivolous in my objections to your contentions: they are objections that show clearly why your point is moot: and serves to render everything truly meaningless, as I said in the other thread. Therefore I will now address your last post in terms of what I have explained above and with my explanation above, I hope you will recognize that I am not trying to be funny, or make jest of the discussion, but that the ridiculous comments I must make below: are rather the comments that should hold true and normal: if your contention is accepted - - -> plaetton: That is what you have been conditioned to see it as. I see that it indisputably silver in color- That what you have been conditioned to see it as. all will agree with me on that. - All have also been conditioned to see it that way or worse - - -> - YOU have been conditioned to see all others affirming what you have been conditioned to see It is very light in weight. That is what YOU have been conditioned to feel it as. And all other people have been conditioned to feel it that way. An ant, would certainly regard it as heavy, no? But i could weigh it on a small scale to determine it's actual weight and that would be verifiable. Even the scale and the result it shows is only what you have been conditioned to see. If it perfectly circular. I could measure it's circumference and it's radius. That would also be verifiable. Verifiable HOW? ? ? Whatever verification you get - be it affirmation from other people or affirmation by computers, these all remain what you have been conditioned to see. what if the other people and the machines are not really there: but only some software you have been conditioned to see as such? What if the scale is actually just a virtual reality projection that YOU have been conditioned to see as a scale? If I wish and had the tools, I could determine it's density, it's component materials, etc. and these would also be verifiable. Same thing. What if all these are simply VR software that you have been CONDITIONED to see as such? You see, this is why I told you that you yourself have not grasped the depth and enormity of the implications of your statement. Obviously. So, I can objectively classify the physical attributes of this disc and it would be easily verified by anyone else in the world. No you cannot: it is possible that no one else actually exists and that every other person in the world is a figment of your imagination which you have been CONDITIONED to see as such. Now you can see very clearly the problems with your argument: which of course you willfully ignored and made sweeping and careless assumptions on. It befuddles me that I have to go to this trouble to explain all of this for you: while you sit aside and cry about losing respect for people. Teeeeesh! Now let me come to the "subjective" part of your comment: Now, if I put this disc on my wall and begin to subjectively dwell on it's importance and meaning to me, I most likely would begin to see or imagine things that no other person might see. These are your thoughts: and they are indeed the subjective thoughts that were invited by the thought-exercise I set up in that thread. I made it clear enough that I was interested in people's subjective thoughts. And there is nothing wrong with such an exercise: as far as I know, there is no one who looked at, for example: the picture of the stone, and declared that it was a dog, or other living thing. Therefore in terms of your declamations to the effect that "everyone could verify" this or that - I am sure you would agree that everyone could verify that the stone is not an image of a living thing. Unless, of course, you wish to quibble pedantically - that that is only what they have been conditioned to see. Those pictures were for open discussion: on images that we are ALL familiar with. If you could not see the proper issues of existentialism, cosmology, evolution, science, and much more; that were thereby elicited: and properly and intelligently engage those issues: but rather stop the discussion at the meaningless point that everything we see is that which we have been conditioned to see - then no probs - I cannot help you. Thanks. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Kay17: 6:38am On Nov 18, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: man was good and has freewill. He chose to do evil. God is not the source of evil. Only if freewill means ability to wish the impossible like God or his pure creation being the source of Evil |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 7:32am On Nov 18, 2013 |
Logicboy03:no. I rightly divided the word of God. I didn't remix it. 2 Timothy 2:15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. I expected the baseless rebuttal shaa. You accepting what God actually did at the tower of babel will threaten your beliefs and your intentional false image you have created of him in your head. Whatever helps you sleep at night.  |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 7:34am On Nov 18, 2013 |
Kay 17:smh. Freewill means man had to choose whom he would give his alleigance to. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 8:49am On Nov 18, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: no. I rightly divided the word of God. I didn't remix it. See remixer of the bible- The verse in the key word is not DIVIDING!!!!! Chei....you lie so much!!!! Here is the verse; 2 Timothy 2:15 New International Version (NIV) 15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 Living Bible (TLB) 15 Work hard so God can say to you, “Well done.” Be a good workman, one who does not need to be ashamed when God examines your work. Know what his Word says and means. You used the KJV version that says "divide". However, "divide" in that context would mean to share and understand the gospel.....not "divide" i the dubious way you mean it to be- cutting and pasting from one chapter to the other. See liar........you keep thinking falsely that atheists do not read the bible and you keep getting served |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Joshthefirst(m): 9:20am On Nov 18, 2013 |
Logicboy03:I also mean sharing and understanding the bible. Not copying and pasting, but comparing scripture with scripture. Smh. 2 Timothy 2:15 Study and be eager and do your utmost to present yourself to God approved (tested by trial), a workman who has no cause to be ashamed, correctly analyzing and accurately dividing [rightly handling and skillfully teaching] the Word of Truth. 2 timothy 2:15 Do your best to win full approval in God's sight, as a worker who is not ashamed of his work, one who correctly teaches the message of God's truth. |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Nobody: 2:31pm On Nov 18, 2013 |
Joshthefirst: I also mean sharing and understanding the bible. lol.....nice try |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by DeepSight(m): 9:36pm On Nov 19, 2013 |
So obvious that when folly is broken down thoroughly and revealed for what it is, the purveyors of folly retreat, tails between legs. . . . |
| Re: Evil Confirms Absence Of God. by Revolva(m): 12:08am On Nov 20, 2013 |
pictures: God allowed evil to test the heart and loyalty of man,whether man is loyal hahahah ridiculous and you say he is the omnipotent omniscience..all those thing na wash.....jare.... |
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