Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 3,143,338 members, 7,780,888 topics. Date: Friday, 29 March 2024 at 02:55 AM

Myopia Of Atheism - Religion (7) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Myopia Of Atheism (8753 Views)

The Glamour Of Atheism / FAITH=DOUBT, RELIGIOUS FAITH= Extreme Form Of Atheism. We Are All Atheists(2) / The Cowardice Of Atheism (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje(m): 8:59pm On Apr 28, 2013
Freksy:

Wrong! The bible does not give a detailed account of how God created everything in seven days. The Genesis account was not written to show the "how" of creation. Rather, it covers major events in a progressive way, describing what things were formed, the order in which they were formed and the time interval, or "day," in which each first appeared. In the first craetive day, light started to appear. You can't have light without the source.

It does, it talks about how god created everything according to the knowleged of the people that wrote the creation myth. . .


The translation by Benjamin Wills Newton gives the same picture of continuing development of a process once started.

Rotherham, in a footnote on "Luminaries" in the Emphasised Bible, says: "In ver. 3, 'ôr ['ohr], light diffused." Are they also "apologetic nonsense"?

Yep, they are apologetic nonsense, Benjamin wells was just giving his own opinion, and it counts for nothing. . .Because that is not what the original hebrew meant. . .The genesis 1 creation account in REALITY is a rabbincal commentry on the genesis 2 creation account which was written much ealier. . .Rabbi Boteach a professor of Jewish religious history in New York has a youtube video on it, i will look it up and post it here. . .He is a practicing Jew that knows the actual history of how the hebrew bible was complied and written. . .He himself know the truth and says its an allegory. . .


When examining the Genesis account, it is helpful to keep in mind that it approaches matters from the standpoint of people on earth. So it describes events as they would have been seen by human observers had they been present. This can be noted from its treatment of events on the fourth Genesis "day." There the sun and moon are described as great luminaries in comparison to the stars. Yet many stars are far greater than our sun, and the moon is insignificant in comparison to them. But not to an earthly observer. So, as seen from the earth, the sun appears to be a 'greater light that rules the day' and the moon a 'lesser light that dominates the night.'—Genesis 1:14-18.

Your own making and your own lies. . .The passage does NOT say any of the lies you are spewing here. . .It only says that the , moon, earth and stars were created on the 4th day of creation. . .It says they were created and placed in the firmament to give light into the earth on the fourth day. . .You can lie all you want but it is there in the bible. . .I have shown that to you already. . .

Gen. 1:1 says "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth".
The heavens had bodies and the earth had crust and water covering it. When God called for light to appear in the first creative day, light gradually came forth, not from the earth, but from the light source(s) in the heaven which were later made to appear on creative day 4.

Another lie, you keep lying to yourself. . .No where in the account does it say the heavens had any bodies, that is your own making, yopu are just using scientific knowledge and trying to force the mythoilogy to agree with it. . .It just said let there be light and there was light and god seperated the light into day and night. . .It never said the light appeared from a light source. . .In many places the bible talks about a new heaven and new earth that does not require the light of the sun. . .

When God made lights, one to rule over the day and the other, the night (Gen. 1:14-18), it wasn't announcement of the birth of the sun, moon and stars, for they had been in existence for untold number of years prior to day 4.The main emphasis were on their appearance and more functions. Where do you think the light on creative day one (Gen. 1:3,5) came from?

Where was it written in the bible that they were in existence for untold number of years before the fourth creative day. . .Where was it written, show me?. . .

When God made the dry land to appear on creative day 3 (Gen.1:9,10), that was not announcement of the birth of the earth's crust, for it had been in existence for untold number of years prior to day 3.- Gen 1:1

Where was this written in the creation account?. . .You think the writer of the genesis myth knows anything about the earth crust?. . .You are a joker. . .Show me where any of the nonsense you wrote appears in the creation account in the bible. . .

Contrary to your claim, the bible does not give a detailed account of how God created everything in 7 days. Also, it was not written as a science book, but has given us the order in which things were formed/made to appear, and the time interval, or "day," in which each first appeared - like the sun, moon and stars that first appeared on creative day 4, though had been in existence for untold number of years.

The bible very clearly use the word made(created), it does NOT use the word appear, it is your own making. . God made the firmament on the second day, it does not say it appeared on the second day. he made the sun, the moon and the stars on the fourth day and he placed them in the elusive firmament to give light to the earth. . .That is what was written. . .Forcing scientific knowledge to agree with the creation myth is pure dishonesty. . .


Why wouldn't there be grasses in day 3? Light gradually appeared from creative day 1 - Gen.1:3. The diffused light would have become quite strong by then, ample for the process of photosynthesis so vital to green plants.

Sure, light had already appeared, but it was not from the sun. . . .The bible never says that. . .


Lol.. you have omitted the greatest myth - undirected explosion.

undireacted explaosin is what gave birth to our own star, after a supernova, new stars are born, the debris, and dust later come together to form planets. . .So yes, explosions do give birth to order, because even our own sun and planets came as a result of a supernova explosion. . .
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by DeepSight(m): 9:03pm On Apr 28, 2013
thehomer:

Then why do we need your God?

Because matter being mutable cannot be self existent - - - as said already a zillion times.

1 Like

Re: Myopia Of Atheism by ijawkid(m): 9:13pm On Apr 28, 2013
mazaje:



undireacted explaosin is what gave birth to our own star, after a supernova, new stars are born, the debris, and dust later come together to form planets. . .So yes, explosions do give birth to order, because even our own sun and planets came as a result of a supernova explosion. . .

I'm sorry to say this mazaje..but I'll have to say it...........

You must be a grown azz fool to believe in the bolded...grincheesy.........

Explosion giving birth tÓ order??.....

Make I laugh my belle full abeg....gringrin......

3 Likes

Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje(m): 9:25pm On Apr 28, 2013
Freksy:

The science of mathematical probability offers striking proof that the Genesis creation account must have come from a source with knowledge of the events. The account lists 10 major stages in this order: (1) a beginning; (2) a primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water; (3) light; (4) an expanse or atmosphere; (5) large areas of dry land; (6) land plants; (7) sun, moon and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning; ( cool sea monsters and flying creatures; (9) wild and tame beasts, mammals; (10) man.

You remain a liar, because non of what you wrote is to be found in the bible. . .primitive earth and darkness with heavy gases?. . .Where did that appear in any part of the creation account?. . .Expanse of atmosphere?. . .You are just a liar. . .

(1) a beginning heaven and earth were created at the begining...................................................................................................1:1

(2) ..... God created light divided the light from the darkness. God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night1:2. . .

Day One

(3) Firmament: God said let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters above from the waters below.And God called the firmament Heaven................................................................................................1:3,5

Day Two
(4) ..............................................................................1:6-8

Day Three
(5) And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so......................................................................................1:9,10
(6) And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and] the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.........................................................................................................1:11

Day Four
(7) And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day(sun), and the lesser light to rule the night(moon): he made the stars also, And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, ........1:14-16

Day Five
( cool And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good......................................................................1:20,21

Day Six
(9) And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that [it was] good..........................................................................1:24
(10)
man.....................................................................................................................1:26,27

I have fixed it for you. . .

Science agrees that these stages occurred in the above general order. What are the chances that the writer of Genesis just guessed this order? The same as if you picked at random the numbers 1 to 10 from a box, and drew them in consecutive order. The chances of doing this on your first try are 1 in 3,628,800! So, to say the writer just happened to list the foregoing events in the right order without getting the facts from somewhere is not realistic. To say it is false will make one a blatant liar before others.

which order are you talking about?. . .The other that the earth was in existence before the sun and stars were made?. . .
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by thehomer: 9:28pm On Apr 28, 2013
Deep Sight:

Because matter being mutable cannot be self existent - - - as said already a zillion times.

How exactly does your God then come into play when something has to exist? Energy and space aren't aren't matter.
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje1: 9:32pm On Apr 28, 2013
ijawkid:

I'm sorry to say this mazaje..but I'll have to say it...........

You must be a grown azz fool to believe in the bolded...grincheesy.........

Explosion giving birth tÓ order??.....

Make I laugh my belle full abeg....gringrin......

The problem is that we have pictures and images of such explosions taken by the hubble space telescope, do you know anything about a nebulae? it is not something that I believe, it is something that evidence has been provided for, go and have a look at the images that hubble space telescope has taken, and stop yapping like a fool. . .You can see pictures of new stars that formed after old stars explode. . .Kepler has images of new planets forming out of the dust and debris. . .Keep believing in fairy tales that talk about some imaginary deity speaking things into existence in the hebrew language. . .You can't even show any picture or image. . The scietist have their images and pictures to show you of nebulae and planets forming. . .
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje1: 9:51pm On Apr 28, 2013
Freksy:

The science of mathematical probability offers striking proof that the Genesis creation account must have come from a source with knowledge of the events. The account lists 10 major stages in this order: (1) a beginning; (2) a primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water; (3) light; (4) an expanse or atmosphere; (5) large areas of dry land; (6) land plants; (7) sun, moon and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning; (cool sea monsters and flying creatures; (9) wild and tame beasts, mammals; (10) man.

This is your own making and remains a lie, you actually copied this aplogist material from cosmic fingers website. ..they are the authors making and have nothing to do with what was written in genesis. . .heavy gases, eh?. ..where does heavy gases appear in genesis?

(1) a beginning ....................................................................................................1:1
(2) a primitive earth in darkness and enshrouded in heavy gases and water .....1:2

Day One
(3) light .................................................................................................................1:3,5

Day Two
(4) an expanse or atmosphere ..............................................................................1:6-8

Day Three
(5) large areas of dry land ......................................................................................1:9,10
(6) land plants ........................................................................................................1:11

Day Four
(7) sun, moon and stars discernible in the expanse, and seasons beginning ........1:14-16

Day Five
(cool sea monsters and flying creatures .....................................................................1:20,21

Day Six
(9) wild and tame beasts, mammals .........................................................................1:24
(10) man.....................................................................................................................1:26,27

You are just lying here and you know it. . .Nothing you have up there reads like what appears in genesis creation account. . .

Science agrees that these stages occurred in the above general order. What are the chances that the writer of Genesis just guessed this order? The same as if you picked at random the numbers 1 to 10 from a box, and drew them in consecutive order. The chances of doing this on your first try are 1 in 3,628,800! So, to say the writer just happened to list the foregoing events in the right order without getting the facts from somewhere is not realistic. To say it is false will make one a blatant liar before others.

Sciences agrees with which stages?. . .the stage that says the earth was in existence before the sun and stars were made?. . .
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by ijawkid(m): 9:58pm On Apr 28, 2013
mazaje1:

The problem is that we have pictures and images of such explosions taken by the hubble space telescope, do you know anything about a nebulae? it is not something that I believe, it is something that evidence has been provided for, go and have a look at the images that hubble space telescope has taken, and stop yapping like a fool. . .You can see pictures of new stars that formed after old stars explode. . .Kepler has images of new planets forming out of the dust and debris. . .Keep believing in fairy tales that talk about some imaginary deity speaking things into existence in the hebrew language. . .You can't even show any picture or image. . The scietist have their images and pictures to show you of nebulae and planets forming. . .
And how does thi§ show that all planetarÝ bodies came into existencÉ through an explosion??........

I can see maybe planet earth was formed as a result of the explosion of a star and when that happened we coincidentally found ourselves inside the earth.........

Formation of gas dust as a result of the explosion of a star or stars in no way explains the origin of the universe.........

Maybe you can show us a photo taken 13 billion years back.........can you??......ask your scientists to provide it........
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by DeepSight(m): 9:59pm On Apr 28, 2013
thehomer:

How exactly does your God then come into play when something has to exist?

That is exactly what the permanent "necessary" IS.

Energy and space aren't aren't matter.

If you say this, then you accept that non material things exist. Progress.
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by ijawkid(m): 10:11pm On Apr 28, 2013
And mazaje you also said or scientists said that our earth,the moon and the sun all came about through the formation of Gases...........can you please show us a photograph too of that??............

And have at the back of your mind that what you call explosions aren't just mere random explosions....we've seen how explosions here on earth leads to total chaos and not orderliness.........whÉn the twin tower was exploded new towers werent formed nor was there orderliness.......

Someone is behind what ever your scientists are viewing out there..........and you know who that is.........
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje1: 10:19pm On Apr 28, 2013
ijawkid:
And how does thi§ show that all planetarÝ bodies came into existencÉ through an explosion??........

What is this?. . .Google the images of nebulae taken by the hubble space telescope, you will see that is is obviously an explosion. . .Dust every where, and new stars every where as well. . .You can ever see it from their brighness that they are not so bright. . .The images speak for themselves. . .How the supanova explosion gives rise to new stars is not yet know, even though so many theories are being floated around, but we know that new stars arise after a super nova explaosion, there are way to many pictures taken by hubble. . .

I can see maybe planet earth was formed as a result of the explosion of a star and when that happened we coincidentally found ourselves inside the earth.........

Stars are formed after a super nova explosion. . .The debris and dust come together after many many years to form planets. . .Through collision under the force of gravity. . .An american scietist tried the experiment with grains of salt in outer space, in the international space center. . .he put many gains of salt in a glass bottle, and they all came together and formed a round ball. . .The videos are on youtube

Formation of gas dust as a result of the explosion of a star or stars in no way explains the origin of the universe.........

Who is talking about the origin of the universe, you keep shifting the goal post. . .I was just trying to show Freksy,that explosions do bring about order, since our own solar system came about as a result of the explosion of another star. . .

Maybe you can show us a photo taken 13 billion years back.........can you??......ask your scientists to provide it........

What is this?. . .Scientist have shown images, what have you guys shown?. . .Writings of primitive men that thought the earth was made before the sun?. . .
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje1: 10:47pm On Apr 28, 2013
ijawkid: And mazaje you also said or scientists said that our earth,the moon and the sun all came about through the formation of Gases...........can you please show us a photograph too of that??............

We don't have the image of how our solar system came about but we can see how other solar systems are forming. . .We can also make calculated deductions from what we see around. . .Take a look at our solar system. . .Where do you take all the asteriods and comets came from?. . .they are obviously a result of the left over materials from super nova explosion that formed our solar system. . .

And have at the back of your mind that what you call explosions aren't just mere random explosions....we've seen how explosions here on earth leads to total chaos and not orderliness.........whÉn the twin tower was exploded new towers werent formed nor was there orderliness.......

Who told you that the universe must behave like the human society?. . .

Someone is behind what ever your scientists are viewing out there..........and you know who that is.........


WHO?
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by ijawkid(m): 11:08pm On Apr 28, 2013
mazaje1:

What is this?. . .Google the images of nebulae taken by the hubble space telescope, you will see that is is obviously an explosion. . .Dust every where, and new stars every where as well. . .You can ever see it from their brighness that they are not so bright. . .The images speak for themselves. . .How the supanova explosion gives rise to new stars is not yet know, even though so many theories are being floated around, but we know that new stars arise after a super nova explaosion, there are way to many pictures taken by hubble. . .
And this process never had a beginning??......

That is my question mr man.......

What could make the disintegration of a star to form new stars??.....what could be responsible??.....NOTHING??.......

Start thinking......

I have googled it o my bro...and what I googled does not in anyway show me that our Sun that is so freaking Hot, that gives us light duriÑg the day and that also supports the growth of plants came from that explosive process..............



mazaje1:

Stars are formed after a super nova explosion. . .The debris and dust come together after many many years to form planets. . .Through collision under the force of gravity. . .An american scietist tried the experiment with grains of salt in outer space, in the international space center. . .he put many gains of salt in a glass bottle, and they all came together and formed a round ball. . .The videos are on youtube

My bro all starts were not formed through what NASA tells you or sees..............someone kick started what you see as stars and what ever explosion or disintegration that is still in motion down till this moment......

What your scientists see didn't come about by random chance.........do you agree??....

Even the american scientist who had to use grains of salt for his expe®iment had to be the one doing the experiment....the salt and the glass used didn't just get there(to space) by random chance........




mazaje1:

Who is talking about the origin of the universe, you keep shifting the goal post. . .I was just trying to show Freksy,that explosions do bring about order, since our own solar system came about as a result of the explosion of another star. . .
Our solar system came Àbout by explosion,the earth came about by explosion,then we inside the earth nkor??........smdh!!!!

mazaje1:

What is this?. . .Scientist have shown images, what have you guys shown?. . .Writings of primitive men that thought the earth was made before the sun?. . .

Scientists have proved nothing about how these stars were kick started........

There research works only proves one thing.....that there is a creator and not some confused explosion bringing about our planet and life in it....

1 Like

Re: Myopia Of Atheism by ijawkid(m): 11:18pm On Apr 28, 2013
mazaje1:

We don't have the image of how our solar system came about but we can see how other solar systems are forming. . .We can also make calculated deductions from what we see around. . .Take a look at our solar system. . .Where do you take all the asteriods and comets came from?. . .they are obviously a result of the left over materials from super nova explosion that formed our solar system. . .
your calculations are based on assumptions bro......I cannot simply say because today humans give birth to there kind therefore the first humans who ever existed were giving birth to........my problem here is the origin........not all stars were formed from an explosive process.....

My point is the earth we live in and the stars that makes lÍfe thrive aren't results of an explÓsive process
........that is why we humans are in it..........







mazaje1:

Who told you that the universe must behave like the human society?. . .


Isn't the earth part of the universe??...don't we experience the force of gravity here too??.......
mazaje1:

WHO?


I guess you know......

Na for my mouth you wan hear say black man yansh BLACK?....wink...grin
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by Freksy(m): 11:32pm On Apr 28, 2013
mazaje:

undireacted explaosin is what gave birth to our own star, after a supernova, new stars are born, the debris, and dust later come together to form planets. . .So yes, explosions do give birth to order, because even our own sun and planets came as a result of a supernova explosion. . .


Explosion usually is chaotic, like the explosion of a nuclear bomb. Naturally, do they result in better organization? Do the bombs that fall on cities in wartime produce superbly designed buildings, streets and signs with traffic laws? On the contrary, such explosions cause wreckage, disorder, chaos, disintegration. And when the explosive device is nuclear the disorganization is total, as experienced by the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945.

A mere "explosion" could not create our awesome universe with its amazing order, design and law. Only a mighty organizer and lawmaker could direct the powerful forces at work so that they would result in superb organization and law. Scientific evidence only provides solid backing for the Bible's declaration:

"The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.."—Psalm 19:1(New American Standard Bible)
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by Freksy(m): 12:30am On Apr 29, 2013
mazaje1:

This is your own making and remains a lie, you actually copied this aplogist material from cosmic fingers website. ..they are the authors making and have nothing to do with what was written in genesis. . .heavy gases, eh?. ..where does heavy gases appear in genesis?

You are just lying here and you know it. . .Nothing you have up there reads like what appears in genesis creation account. . .

Sciences agrees with which stages?. . .the stage that says the earth was in existence before the sun and stars were made?. . .

Lol. You have seen it all. That's a perfect order of how the things you see today on earth came to be. Recall that it was presented by one of those some of you describe as "ape-man" and "illiterate". It staggers you so much that you begin to say I am lying, that none of those things read like what happens in genesis creation account. You failed to see that I provided scriptural reference(s) for each of those stages, and anyone can look them up and see you as a blatant liar.

1 Like

Re: Myopia Of Atheism by thehomer: 9:58am On Apr 29, 2013
Deep Sight:

That is exactly what the permanent "necessary" IS.

Huh? How do you know that your God isn't dead or didn't die with the beginning of the universe?

Deep Sight:
If you say this, then you accept that non material things exist. Progress.

They're still physical but aren't matter.
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by DeepSight(m): 1:43pm On Apr 29, 2013
thehomer:

Huh? How do you know that your God isn't dead or didn't die with the beginning of the universe?

Self existent necessaries are instrinsically eternal.

They're still physical but aren't matter.

Then should not matter to you; aside from the fact, of course, that the point remains the same with this answer.
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by plaetton: 2:22pm On Apr 29, 2013
Deep Sight:

Because matter being mutable cannot be self existent - - - as said already a zillion times.

That matter is mutable is an accepted truth. But how does that fact negate the possibility that matter itself is self existent?
Since matter is basically condensed energy, and matter and energy are convertible to one another, why can't matter be said to be self-existent just like energy?
Besides the duality of matter/energy, what else do we have in existence?

The idea that there must be an inmutable self-existent god that begat matter is actually illogical. It negates all our scientific understanding of the universe.

The notion of an inmutable god creating a super dynamic universe, presumably from nothing, is glaringly contradictory.

The only metric to define existence is motion. In otherwords, mutability. All that exists are in motion.
A self existent entity existing outside the universe and therefore outside space and time is a very far stretch of the imagination, considering what we know so far.
But in simpler terms, if the immutable( state of permanent stasis) god exists outside the universe, then we can easily infer that god does not exist in the universe. And if god doesn't exist in the universe, the universe should not care.
That is the atheist's position.
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by Kay17: 2:43pm On Apr 29, 2013
Deep Sight:

Self existent necessaries are instrinsically eternal.



Then should not matter to you; aside from the fact, of course, that the point remains the same with this answer.

What do you think about potentials.
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje1: 6:29pm On Apr 29, 2013
Freksy:

Lol. You have seen it all. That's a perfect order of how the things you see today on earth came to be. Recall that it was presented by one of those some of you describe as "ape-man" and "illiterate". It staggers you so much that you begin to say I am lying, that none of those things read like what happens in genesis creation account. You failed to see that I provided scriptural reference(s) for each of those stages, and anyone can look them up and see you as a blatant liar.


The truth is what they wrote down is not what you copied from the christian apologetic website, by the way, what you posated is NOT you own making or writing, you copied it from the cosmic finger website a website I am already familiar with. . .So, stop claiming that you wrote it. . .Its not your writing but a copy paste. . .The author completely tries to force the bible to agree with what mordern science has revealed. . .He even lies againt the bible. . .the bible is very clear, it talks about non existening things like a firmament that was created on the second day of creation to divide the waters above and the waters below, it talks about god creating the sun, stars and moon on the 4th day of creation and placing them in the firmament to give ligft unto the earth and other nonsense. . The author whose writing you copied, used scientific knowledge and tried to force it to blend with the bible by changing everything, he talked about clouds of dust, eaarths core etc, things the writers of the genesis myth never knew. . .Christians and Jews that are honest and know better just say it is an allegory, instead of lying to themselves and trying to force what science has revealed to agree with the bible which is actually a dishonest thing to do. . .
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje1: 6:35pm On Apr 29, 2013
Freksy:


Explosion usually is chaotic, like the explosion of a nuclear bomb. Naturally, do they result in better organization? Do the bombs that fall on cities in wartime produce superbly designed buildings, streets and signs with traffic laws? On the contrary, such explosions cause wreckage, disorder, chaos, disintegration. And when the explosive device is nuclear the disorganization is total, as experienced by the Japanese cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in 1945.

A mere "explosion" could not create our awesome universe with its amazing order, design and law. Only a mighty organizer and lawmaker could direct the powerful forces at work so that they would result in superb organization and law. Scientific evidence only provides solid backing for the Bible's declaration:

"The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.."—Psalm 19:1(New American Standard Bible)

The conditions on earth is VERY different from out there in space, the universe is not a human society or the earth and as such has no reason to behave like the earth, you can not even survive a second in space, but you survive here on earth, so i don't even know what you are talking about. . . .Supa novas do happen and they give birth to new stars, which then give birth to new solar systems, our own solar system came about as a result of a super nova explosion . .. there are picture evidence available taken but observatory like the hubble space telescope for all to see. . .You can keep shouting that scintific evidence provides backing for the biblical declaration but it doesn't make it so. . .
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje1: 6:56pm On Apr 29, 2013
ijawkid:
your calculations are based on assumptions bro......I cannot simply say because today humans give birth to there kind therefore the first humans who ever existed were giving birth to........my problem here is the origin........not all stars were formed from an explosive process.....

The first humans that existed were given birth to . . .Sure, not all stars were formed by explosive process, but many stars were formed that way. . .I was just trying to counter Freksy's point that explosion can not result to order . . .

My point is the earth we live in and the stars that makes lÍfe thrive aren't results of an explÓsive process
........that is why we humans are in it..........

How do you know this?. . .There could be life on other planets out there from other stars that were born from explosive processes, we just do not have the ability to know if there is life on other planets that orbit other distant stars out there for now. . . .

Isn't the earth part of the universe??...don't we experience the force of gravity here too??.......

The earth is very different from space, the conditions here on earth allows you to walk and not to be in a weightless condition. . .Here on earth when you throw something up it must come down, but out there is space it will keep going up and never come down. . .The envirments are vert different, life can survive here on earth but life can not survive out there is space for more than 120 seconds on average . . .Your entire body will just disintegrate . . .The conditions here on earth are very different from what is out there in space. . .I told you about a NASA scientist that put some grains of salt together in a glass bottle out there in space in the international space center and the grains of salt clumped together and formed a round like ball . ..Here on earth when you put salt in a glass bottle you particles act very differently. . .Out there in space is not a the earth and as such comparing events that happen here on earth to what happens out there is a dumb thing to do. . .


I guess you know......

Na for my mouth you wan hear say black man yansh BLACK?....wink...grin

Na so grin
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by honeychild(f): 7:53pm On Apr 29, 2013
mazaje:

There is NO evidence what so ever to show that human consciousness survives bodily death. . . .

@ mazaje,
Not to derail this thread, but when you were a Christian, did the Jehovah's Witnesses ever read Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6 and 10 to you? And if they did, what was your response to them?

Eccl 9:5, 6- for the living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, THEY ARE CONSCIOUS OF NOTHING AT ALL.

2 Likes

Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje1: 8:03pm On Apr 29, 2013
honeychild:

@ mazaje,
Not to derail this thread, but when you were a Christian, did the Jehovah's Witnesses ever read Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6 and 10 to you? And if they did, what was your response to them?

Eccl 9:5, 6- for the living are conscious that they will die, but as for the dead, THEY ARE CONSCIOUS OF NOTHING AT ALL.


But the same bible says that the dead in christ will be risen again. . . .
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by DeepSight(m): 8:21pm On Apr 29, 2013
plaetton:

That matter is mutable is an accepted truth. But how does that fact negate the possibility that matter itself is self existent?

A self existent thing cannot change.

Since matter is basically condensed energy, and matter and energy are convertible to one another, why can't matter be said to be self-existent just like energy?

Self existent things are intrinsically permanent in nature. That is the very quality of self existence.

Besides the duality of matter/energy, what else do we have in existence?

Permanent intangible self existent things. Such as infinite time, infinite space and infinite permutations.

The idea that there must be an inmutable self-existent god that begat matter is actually illogical. The notion of an inmutable god creating a super dynamic universe, presumably from nothing, is glaringly contradictory.

The reasoning is that -

1. At all events, some thing or the other must self exist for anything to exist.

2. This is because something cannot emerge from nothing.

3.That which self exists can only be that which is permanent, non contingent, intrinsically necessary, and could not but exist: and as such, exists by default.

4. It is not reasoned that this factor is mutable: it is reasoned that this factor is the permanent somethingness which is the seed of reality as we know it.

5. As such it is the effects from the cause that infinitely change and not the the cause that changes.

It negates all our scientific understanding of the universe.

We have very little scientific understanding of the universe as yet.

The only metric to define existence is motion. In otherwords, mutability. All that exists are in motion.

This is very well said and profound. I will have to ask you however if time and space exist, and then I will have to ask you if they move: or if we move in them.

But in simpler terms, if the immutable( state of permanent stasis) god exists outside the universe, then we can easily infer that god does not exist in the universe. And if god doesn't exist in the universe, the universe should not care.
That is the atheist's position.

That is the agnostic's position.
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by honeychild(f): 8:33pm On Apr 29, 2013
mazaje1:

But the same bible says that the dead in christ will be risen again. . . .

You did not answer my question. You asserted that there is no consciousness after death. I tell you some people have been trying for decades to show you that same truth from the Bible.

I ask this because you were a Pentecostal Christian. When the JWs showed you that scripture in your bible reading days, how did you react?
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by mazaje1: 8:38pm On Apr 29, 2013
honeychild:

You did not answer my question. You asserted that there is no consciousness after death. I tell you some people have been trying for decades to show you that same truth from the Bible.

I ask this because you were a Pentecostal Christian. When the JWs showed you that scripture in your bible reading days, how did you react?

JW have never shown that to me specifically . . .The bible says the dead will rise again for judgement . . . .Its appointed unto man once to die and after that judgement. .Is it the unconscious that will be judged?. . .

1 Like

Re: Myopia Of Atheism by honeychild(f): 8:48pm On Apr 29, 2013
mazaje1:

JW have never shown that to me specifically . . .The bible says the dead will rise again for judgement . . . .Its appointed unto man once to die and after that judgement. .Is it the unconscious that will be judged?. . .

o.k.. so now that you have come across it, what do you think?

In answer to your question, this is the order in which the Bible says things occur after death:

1. Death: a state of total unconsciousness; the absence of life. - Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10

2. A Resurrection: a standing up of the dead PHYSICALLY. This will happen at the 'last day'

3. Then comes the judgement.
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by ijawkid(m): 8:49pm On Apr 29, 2013
mazaje1:

The first humans that existed were given birth to . . .Sure, not all stars were formed by explosive process, but many stars were formed that way. . .I was just trying to counter Freksy's point that explosion can not result to order . . .

The first humans that existed were given birth to BY WHO??........

And I'm happy you know not all stars were formed from the explosion of other stars....and such planetary bodies are the earth,sun and moon..........

These bodies were made for US........


mazaje1:

How do you know this?. . .There could be life on other planets out there from other stars that were born from explosive processes, we just do not have the ability to know if there is life on other planets that orbit other distant stars out there for now. . . .
Why are we humans here on earth??.........why earth??........


You can keep on searching for Life in other planets,but I would want you to answer why we humans are on planet earth....why earth..?




mazaje1:

The earth is very different from space, the conditions here on earth allows you to walk and not to be in a weightless condition. . .Here on earth when you throw something up it must come down, but out there is space it will keep going up and never come down. . .The envirments are vert different, life can survive here on earth but life can not survive out there is space for more than 120 seconds on average . . .Your entire body will just disintegrate . . .The conditions here on earth are very different from what is out there in space. . .I told you about a NASA scientist that put some grains of salt together in a glass bottle out there in space in the international space center and the grains of salt clumped together and formed a round like ball . ..Here on earth when you put salt in a glass bottle you particles act very differently. . .Out there in space is not a the earth and as such comparing events that happen here on earth to what happens out there is a dumb thing to do. . .

I know conditions here on earth are different from that in space....that I know!!!!..........

My point is if that scientist did not carry out that experiment would the grain of salt and the bottle have gone to space by itself??.........

Someone had to kick start the experiment abi??..........


mazaje1:

Na so grin

Na so o my bro....grin
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by plaetton: 9:04pm On Apr 29, 2013
Deep Sight:

A self existent thing cannot change.

If it cannot change, then it lacks the quality of being in existence in the first place.


Self existent things are intrinsically permanent in nature. That is the very quality of self existence.

What in nature, is intrinsically permanent? What exactly in nature is self -existent?
There is nothing I can think of.
Pls help me out.



Permanent intangible self existent things. Such as infinite time, infinite space and infinite permutations.

Infinite time and infinite space? These are abstract notions. They are projections of the imagination, usually in religious lore.





The reasoning is that -

1. At all events, some thing or the other must self exist for anything to exist.

More like imaginations than reasoning.



2. This is because something cannot emerge from nothing.

Except ofcourse, god. Right? See the contradiction?

3.That which self exists can only be that which is permanent, non contingent, intrinsically necessary, and could not but exist: and as such, exists by default.

Matter/energy can neither be created nor destroyed.- Elementary school science.
If we accept that, then we can say that matter/energy fits very well with all the above.



4. It is not reasoned that this factor is mutable: it is reasoned that this factor is the permanent somethingness which is the seed of reality as we know it.

The notion of a permanent somethingness which is the seed of reality is imaginary and contradictory. By your own words, to be the seed of reality implies that it must be outside of reality. If so, then it does not exist in reality. Does that make some sense?

5. As such it is the effects from the cause that infinitely change and not the the cause that changes.

Again, a contradiction. You cannot be the cause of an effect and at the same time be immutable. shocked
If you are capable of causing an effect, then you are mutable, because, the effect for which you have caused is itself a change from a prior position of equilibrium.



We have very little scientific understanding of the universe as yet.
But we are moving along just fine


This is very well said and profound. I will have to ask you however if time and space exist, and then I will have to ask you if they move: or if we move in them.



That is the agnostic's position.
Re: Myopia Of Atheism by thehomer: 9:22pm On Apr 29, 2013
Deep Sight:

Self existent necessaries are instrinsically eternal.

Now you're just making things up or making a word salad. Can you please expatiate on what you mean?

Deep Sight:
Then should not matter to you; aside from the fact, of course, that the point remains the same with this answer.


Why shouldn't it matter to me? When I confronted you with the idea of God being physical, you danced away now you're telling me it shouldn't matter? Come on.

(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (Reply)

Is It Scriptural To Pray Against Our Enemies? / Is Jesus Enough? - Andrew Wommack / Kinds Of Spiritual Garments

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 135
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.