Logicboy03:


Good, Bella..........good.

Bélla3: I guess i need prayers coz am entirely lost here.
Are you trying to say that God knows the future, bt at the same time isnt sure it'll come to pass? I dont know how an author can know how a story will end, at thesame time gives his characters freewill.
If God is omiscient, then he knows those destinied for hell.
I guess this isnt something you understand by mere common sense. Is there a particular verse that says God is omniscient? Thanks for all the humble replies, very much appreciated.

Pastor Olu T:

From your own very words sis, spiritual things can only be spiritually discerned. Though this things are not difficult to comprehend but we sure do no have a perfect knowledge concerning it, when you trust Him enough you will know enough to understand there is no contradiction.

My advice to you is that you focus on your personal growth in Him and grow in grace 2 Peter 3:18.

Bélla3: Lately i have been doing alot of thinking because of this question: 'how can God give freewill, at thesame time be omniscient (ie be know all things- past, present and future)?'

JeSoul: Striktlymi...your pictures again common now...lets not trash out the topic - this is how it starts. Thank you sir!

Ihedinobi:

I'm not sure it's my post you're responding to, Bella, but I think I have something to say to the above.

The starting point for the believer is this: God cannot lie. If God says that we are to choose our own path, then it must be true that we have the facility to make choices. And if God says to that He knows the end from the beginning, then God must know our future. That is where a believer naturally begins.

Now, if the believer is hard-pressed to see how the two can meet, he can ask questions as you have and seek understanding in the place of communion with the Lord, although this is not that important a question at all and hardly warrants that much attention except for the purpose of shutting the mouths of the Lord's accusers. Edit: but the believer does not accommodate at all doubt as to the veracity od what God says. To the believer, God is always true even if everything has to be a lie for it to be so.

God knows the future because He exists outside time. He knows what you'll do and what you'll choose because He's in the future with you seeing you do and choose it. Time is like a video showing all of its frames at once to the Lord so He has perfect knowledge of all that's happening in it without having to determine any of it. Do you understand that, Bella?

Qkeyxyz:

Two issues here: free will and omniscience.

Free will is the freedom to choose; you are free to choose good, you are also free to choose evil. A man who shoots himself in the head clearly has the intention to die right. Likewise, a man who chooses armed robbery as a "profession" knows that he might wind up in jail or dead. SO free will is the freedom to choose as path or pattern of behaviour as well as it's destination or consequences.

Omniscience: Has god not said "if you choose this and that, then such and such will be the consequences...". This is omniscience. ie: knowing the end(consequences) from the beginning(choices).

Bélla3: I guess i need prayers coz am entirely lost here.

Are you trying to say that God knows the future, bt at the same time isnt sure it'll come to pass? I dont know how an author can know how a story will end, at thesame time gives his characters freewill.

If God is omiscient, then he knows those destinied for hell.

I guess this isnt something you understand by mere common sense.

Is there a particular verse that says God is omniscient?

Thanks for all the humble replies, very much appreciated.

striktlymi:

Evening Jesoul,

Are pictures prohibited? But LB has his very own pics and nothing was said about it. I thought you were only particular about the size...

JeSoul: No oga sir, pictures are not prohibited - derailing a thread is what I'm refering to in this case. Whether it is pictures, gifs or cartoons. Thank you dude, highly appreciated.

JeSoul: You're not "lost" sis. Sometimes, truth takes time. You're asking questions and thinking - you're on the right track.

No, not quite sis. Consider these two statements at the heart of your question...(I'll provide scripture verses in a sec)

¹God is omniscient & knows all things - past, present & future.
²God gave human beings freewill to make independent choices

So how can an Omniscient God simultaneously also permit freewill? The two statements overlap - but they don't contradict. God knows what you will do, and the choices you will make - and He works within those choices that Bella will make to bring about His ultimate plan. This is very different from saying He controls or determines Bella's will. I hope you see this subtle but very important distinction. He will weave the choices that Bella makes, into the choices that Jesoul makes, into the choices that Ihedinobi makes - into a woven fabric that represents His ultimate will. He can and does this because He is God, and nothing is impossible for Him to do.

Logicboy03:



Limiting God again? God works within choices?

Why would an omnipotent being work within choices when he knows the path from beginning to end? In reality no one truly makes any choice if there is an omnipotent being.


Bella wants to maker her hair- fringe vs dreads. Bella chooses a fringe.

Bella didnt make a choice as God knew that she would make a fringe hairstyle on that day even before she was born

striktlymi:

Sorry Jesoul but I really got to say this:

LB, your logic up there is NOT sound and kinda disappointing...

Ihedinobi: @JeSoul

Darling sis, I believe you understood her need better than I did. Grace be multiplied to you, sis.

@Lb

What's with the pic?

And, uh, stop making such a joke of yourself. Just a lil friendly advice regarding your answers to JeSoul

Logicboy03:

Good but omniscience is more than knowing consequences and choices.......it is knowing everything and hence, there is no real choice with God. He knows the path you will take and the exact time you will die

Logicboy03:



Lol........maybe you missed Bellas reply to Jesouls first post.

I am enjoying this....you guys failing to answer Bellas question.


As for the pic, i could only laugh at your bumbling sophistry

Qkeyxyz:

Everything in existence is based on path(pattern, choices) & consequences\destination. From sex to pregnancy, birth, growing, living and death. mathematics, physics, chemistry, etc. Everything has a pattern leading to a defined outcome. This is the principle of God's omniscience. Knowing the end from the beginning.

striktlymi:

Okay ma'am...I will keep quiet and just observe...

Ihedinobi: @JeSoul

Darling sis, I believe you understood her need better than I did. Grace be multiplied to you, sis.

JeSoul: Uncle don't keep quiet now lol. Just focus replies on Bellas question and we can all discuss and get something profitable out of it. We can all learn from each other, all the side-shows are not worth it . Muchos gracias sir.

Ihedinobi: Hi Bella3

Um, quite a question you have there. I hope the "skepticism" of the unbelievers is not getting to you. Even if it is, the Lord is more than able to keep them that have trusted in Him.
.

So I'll say first of all that even if God made His Creation deterministic by nature or semi-deterministic, He's got every right in the book to do so. After all, it's His Creation.

Second, the answer to your question, dear sis, is that God is not at all subject to time. In His reality, He does not have to look forward to a future or backward to a past. He commands time. Thus, He sees everything happening at all times as though it were all happening at once. He knows what decisions you will make in your future because He is watching you make them in the future at the very same time that you make them. So He does not "predict" the future as we would, rather, He witnesses it.

Ihedinobi:

I'm not sure it's my post you're responding to, Bella, but I think I have something to say to the above.

The starting point for the believer is this: God cannot lie. If God says that we are to choose our own path, then it must be true that we have the facility to make choices. And if God says to that He knows the end from the beginning, then God must know our future. That is where a believer naturally begins.

Now, if the believer is hard-pressed to see how the two can meet, he can ask questions as you have and seek understanding in the place of communion with the Lord, although this is not that important a question at all and hardly warrants that much attention except for the purpose of shutting the mouths of the Lord's accusers. Edit: but the believer does not accommodate at all doubt as to the veracity od what God says. To the believer, God is always true even if everything has to be a lie for it to be so.

God knows the future because He exists outside time. He knows what you'll do and what you'll choose because He's in the future with you seeing you do and choose it. Time is like a video showing all of its frames at once to the Lord so He has perfect knowledge of all that's happening in it without having to determine any of it. Do you understand that, Bella?

Pastor Olu T: [/quote]thanks![quote author=Qkeyxyz]

Two issues here: free will and omniscience.

Free will is the freedom to choose; you are free to choose good, you are also free to choose evil. A man who shoots himself in the head clearly has the intention to die right. Likewise, a man who chooses armed robbery as a "profession" knows that he might wind up in jail or dead. SO free will is the freedom to choose as path or pattern of behaviour as well as it's destination or consequences.

Omniscience: Has god not said "if you choose this and that, then such and such will be the consequences...". This is omniscience. ie: knowing the end(consequences) from the beginning(choices).

Bélla3: I'd be lying if i say i do, but, ISORIT.

JeSoul: You're not "lost" sis. Sometimes, truth takes time. You're asking questions and thinking - you're on the right track.

No, not quite sis. Consider these two statements at the heart of your question...(I'll provide scripture verses in a sec)

¹God is omniscient & knows all things - past, present & future.
²God gave human beings freewill to make independent choices

So how can an Omniscient God simultaneously also permit freewill? The two statements overlap - but they don't contradict. God knows what you will do, and the choices you will make - and He works within those choices that Bella will make to bring about His ultimate plan. This is very different from saying He controls or determines Bella's will. I hope you see this subtle but very important distinction. He will weave the choices that Bella makes, into the choices that Jesoul makes, into the choices that Ihedinobi makes - into a woven fabric that represents His ultimate will. He can and does this because He is God, and nothing is impossible for Him to do.

Thanks for the opportunity to divide God's word unto the edification of the saints . Godbless!

Logicboy03:


I love you Bella

Bélla3: AM LOST ON THE BOLD.

Bélla3: which kin love first? Person wife...