JeSoul: [color=#006600] Psalm 139:15–16
15 You watched me as I was being formed in utter seclusion, as I was woven together in the dark of the womb. 16 You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed.

JeSoul:
My brother no wahala jare. I do have one wish of you though...that you'd be more selective about where you cast your pearls .

Image123: hope this will be of help, has helped me.
Some folks are in a walk to know/understand God more/better, while some are in a trek to undermine an understanding or attempted attempt to know God. The concepts of omnipotence, omniscience and omnipresence are attributes of God. These words are not exactly in the Bible, so its good to be careful to DEFINE them according to the attributes seen/observed IN scriptures, not just on what we feel.
Omnipotence for instance excludes God lying. God cannot lie, cannot sin, etc. yet He can do all things. The fact that He cannot lie doesn't invalidate His omnipotence, though our understanding and logic may want so.
Same way, omnipresence is basically that God is everywhere. The question may be is God in my phone, book, your spittle, urine, pot of soup etc since He's everywhere. Such assumptions show some form of logic but a dearth of the concept of omnipresence. That God isn't in your socks doesn't mean He's not omnipresent, the issue is a good grasp of the concept.
have to continue in my next post, on phone.

Ihedinobi:

You really can't help yourself, Lb, can you? You must peddle nonsense like your life depends on if, mustn't you?

So what if one person uses his free will to put himself in trouble? How does that take away from the fact that another person uses it to take hold of Life? One person who chooses Life, my friend, is worth more than a thousand thaf choose Death.

Now, let's hear that characteristically silly roar of outrage, mm.



Enyia, why does how God feels suddenly matter to you? How can He be feeling anything if He doesn't exist?

Anyway, how He feels will not make Him violate anybody's free will. Without free will, nobody could choose Life any more than they can chopse Death.

And what's that nonsense about a handful going to heaven? What are you reading? Toilet paper?

Logicboy03:



Cant and Wont


Omnipotence means that God can lie.......but he doesnt have to.

You cant even explain your own position.....smh

Image123: Omniscience is basically that God knows all things. This simply means He cannot be deceived as He can see both hidden and open. It also means that He CAN see the present, past and future. The analogy i said might help since it helped me is this. Its like we have many gadgets today like charts and graphs for projections and calculations and equipment that for instance tell that rain will fall, weather forecast, earthquake and sea tides, and medical test that say this person will be well/fit in six weeks or has three months to live, or will deliver male twins at so so date. Even so, God has a most sophisticated intelligence (omniscience) that sees the future, present and past, and can detect anything. Freewill is like when you tell a woman she's pregnant with healthy foetus and will give birth next month at time t, and then she gets careless with the pregnancy. The future may change, the baby may come earlier, or may come dead or deformed contrary to foreknowledge.If put under test again, projection will be different. This is sort of how omniscience works. This is not a teaching or doctrine, please. Just an analogy that might help. Its not in anyway perfect or exactly, God is greater.

Image123: ,
Hebrews6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was IMPOSSIBLE FOR GOD TO LIE, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us:

Logicboy03:

Do you people just say anything to make omniscience fit in with freewill?

An omniscient being's vision of the future is 100% certain

A projection is only an estimate for the future
========================


Your example in bold fails so hard
-God already knew that the woman will miscarry the baby even before the pregnancy came

truthislight: There are TOO MANY coinage of words/concepts in christiandom that are not found in the bible itself but Given a definition according to human understanding and then attempting to use the bible to justify them.

Are the following words found in the bible itself? :

1. Ominisciece
2. Omnipotent
3. Ominipresence
4. Rapture
5. Purgatry
6. Limbo
7. "Immortalsoul"
8. Transubstantiation
9. Easter/christmas(etc)
10. Trinity

(I stand corrected if those ^ exact words are found in the bible)

humans having coined out those words and defining them end up creating confussion for themselves and for the bible.

Then started the debate that detracts from the essence of the bible simple message = eternal life for humans.

Smh.

striktlymi: **Peeps, sees so many cooks sweating over one pot of soup...wonders what is said about too many cooks and a pot of soup...seats and waits for the outcome**

Image123:
and you're the one in charge of this right definition of omniscience. My post wasn't exactly directed at you anyway, that will be a waste. Let's patiently wait for its true recipients, pele.

Logicboy03:

Jesoul has told you to stop trolling.

If you had any sense, people are coming at omniscience from different perspectives. So it is not one pot of soup but many.

ekpa

striktlymi:

Butthurt!!!

Logicboy03:



In the words of my yoruba friends “ko wole”..........“ko jo”



Doesnt follow......wrong application of butthurt

Logicboy03:



Wow, bending logic to fit the bible?


The reasons those words do not appear in the bible because the bible was written by unsophisticated Jewish barbarians who had a very rudimentary language.

Scribes, linguists and historians from the 11th century upwards till now have been updating the bible to make it seem relevant.

Just like how christians now say that God is behind the big bang. Could Moses explain space talkeless of the big bang?

Atheist:-D:


Surely you dont buy all this stuff you just mentioned? Please tell me you dont?

If God had so much love for us that He needed to create us then why didnt He do the LOVING thing and remove sin from us rather than killing us and committing all out genocide due to His fury at our weakness which He created in us. As our creator He is at fault for our evils nad sins. We should be allowed to sue Him for our ills in life.

Atheist:-D:


Surely you dont buy all this stuff you just mentioned? Please tell me you dont?

If God had so much love for us that He needed to create us then why didnt He do the LOVING thing and remove sin from us rather than killing us and committing all out genocide due to His fury at our weakness which He created in us. As our creator He is at fault for our evils nad sins. We should be allowed to sue Him for our ills in life.

Logicboy03:



Seriously, bro?

musKeeto: All the unnecessary obfuscations... Well, it was to be expected.


let's assume we have 5 points

A B C D E

God being God, knows that given an option to pick 3, a man might decide to pick any in whatever permutation. But this isn't omniscient.

Being omniscient means God knows exactly what options he will pick, and in what order. e.g B A C or D B A.

Like I said on an earlier thread, omnisicient isn't just about probabilities. God knows FOR CERTAIN WHAT will happen else, he fails to be OMNISCIENT.


The problem is this knowledge isn't limited to the now. GOD, BEING OMNISCIENT KNOWS WHAT MY UNBORN DESCENDANT 3 GENERATIONS AWAY WOULD DO.

They've not been born, yet their actions have already been known. By knowing, God has made them set. If they deviate from what God already knows, then God seizes to be omniscient. Else, their 'freewill' is just an illusion. They're only acting according to God's foreknowledge, just like the characters in a story must bend to the will of the writer.

truthislight: There are TOO MANY coinage of words/concepts in christiandom that are not found in the bible itself but Given a definition according to human understanding and then attempting to use the bible to justify them.

Are the following words found in the bible itself? :

1. Ominisciece
2. Omnipotent
3. Ominipresence
4. Rapture
5. Purgatry
6. Limbo
7. "Immortalsoul"
8. Transubstantiation
9. Easter/christmas(etc)
10. Trinity

(I stand corrected if those ^ exact words are found in the bible)

humans having coined out those words and defining them end up creating confussion for themselves and for the bible.

Then started the debate that detracts from the essence of the bible simple message = eternal life for humans.

Smh.

Ubenedictus: your understanding of language is just disturbing!

Very disturbing!

You don't need the exact words to be in the bible! Omniscient-know all thing, do you need the word omniscient to be there before you believe God is omniscient?? No. Does the bible say God know all things? Yes. Does that mean he is omniscient? Yes!

So how come you need the word omniscient in the bible?

musKeeto: @Ube: I posted this on an earlier thread discussing same issue..
Maybe my analogy is wrong... would like your views..

truthislight:

The truth is very simple, if those words are not found in the bible they are not bible words simple!

"No long thing".

striktlymi:

Ubenedictus: your understanding of language is just disturbing!

Very disturbing!

You don't need the exact words to be in the bible! Omniscient-know all thing, do you need the word omniscient to be there before you believe God is omniscient?? No. Does the bible say God know all things? Yes. Does that mean he is omniscient? Yes!

So how come you need the word omniscient in the bible?

truthislight: There are TOO MANY coinage of words/concepts in christiandom that are not found in the bible itself but Given a definition according to human understanding and then attempting to use the bible to justify them.

Are the following words found in the bible itself? :

1. Ominisciece
2. Omnipotent
3. Ominipresence
4. Rapture
5. Purgatry
6. Limbo
7. "Immortalsoul"
8. Transubstantiation
9. Easter/christmas(etc)
10. Trinity

(I stand corrected if those ^ exact words are found in the bible)

humans having coined out those words and defining them end up creating confussion for themselves and for the bible.

Then started the debate that detracts from the essence of the bible simple message = eternal life for humans.

Smh.

Ubenedictus: "bible word"?

Ubenedictus: *waving and smiling*

truthislight:

Keep disturbing yourself, those words are not found in the bible, or, why not show us those words in the bible if they are bible words?

If you cannot show us those words in the bible, then, everly keep your peace cause those are not bible words. QED.