The Quatrodeciman Issue - Religion - Nairaland
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| The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 5:29pm On May 09, 2013 |
I have noticed a trend on this forum on issues regarding grace and law, those against the law speak passionatly from the bible and rightly so But what about factual history? I think we all need to calm down and take a look at our past histories and see if we are missing anuthing per say. This theme of this post is to look into the historical evidence concerning the Passover in the early church, and see what all the controversy was about at that time. Few realize it, but there was an ongoing controversy from the first till the fifth centuries in the visible Church concerning Passover. That controversy has historically been referred to as the “Quartodeciman Controversy.” For all you Grace apologetics (Goshen and his gang)who project paul as the central theme in thier messages, I will like to start the discussion with a qoute from paul The apostle Paul wrote to the Corinthian Church these words: “For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth” (I Cor.5:7-8, NIV). Notice! Paul said plainly enough, “Let us KEEP THE FESTIVAL”! The footnote of the NIV Bible on this verse states: “Keeping the Feast of Unleavened Bread (which followed Passover) symbolizes living the Christian life in holy dedication to God.” Not only did Paul in this verse exhort the Corinthians – many of whom were Gentile believers – to observe this Passover festival season, but he himself did so, setting them an example. Notice again! Paul and his companions spent the Feast of Unleavened Bread at Philippi. The historian Luke records, “But we sailed from Philippi AFTER THE DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, and five days later joined the others at Troas, where we stayed seven days” (Acts 20:6). This clearly implies that Paul was still observing the festival ordained by God forever (Exo.12:15-18). At the Council of Nicaea in A.D. 325, during the reign of Emperor Constantine, the bishops of the Catholic Church decreed concerning the Passover that: “All the brethren in the East who formerly celebrated Easter [Passover] WITH THE JEWS [the Jews never celebrated what we call “Easter”], will henceforth keep it at the SAME TIME AS THE ROMANS, with us and with all those who from ancient times have celebrated the feast at the same time with us.” Emperor Constantine, having been totally disgusted with the disagreements and controversies within the Christian community regarding the date of “Easter,” then exhorted all the bishops of the universal Church to embrace “the practice which is observed at once in the city of Rome, and in Africa; throughout Italy, and in Egypt” (NPNF, 2nd, I, p.525). Henceforth the power of the Roman Empire was used to enforce Easter observance upon “Christians,” and to prohibit and forbid true Passover observance! Thus by 325 A.D. the true celebration of the ancient Passover, which had been the practice of the Jews, the family of Jesus, Jesus Himself, the apostles, and the early Church in Jerusalem, and throughout the region of Asia, as well as various other portions of the Empire, including some churches in Rome itself, was systematically rejected, repudiated and abolished, because of its connection with the hated and maligned Jews. Instead, the pagan worship of Easter Sunday observance was now transferred to the Church, supposedly in honor of Christ’s resurrection. Though its very name, “Easter,” is the name of a pagan goddess of spring and fertility, its very name emblematic of its true origin, it was cleverly slipped into the Church in the place of Passover observance. The long struggle between Passover and Easter was finally decided – by the power of Rome – in favor of Easter! True Passover observance, by Christians, was halted, ended, by the force and power of Imperial edict and decree of the apostate Church in the Roman Empire. By 364 A.D., at the Council of Laodicea, both the Passover and the Sabbath were completely abolished by the Roman state. The new state religion, a bizarre blending and amalgamation of paganism and Christianity, devoid of any remaining “Jewish” influences, became the dominant religious power in Europe for over one thousand years. Paganism, cloaked in outer "Christian" appearing clothing, triumphed over the truth. Satan's great deception was complete. The “Great LovePeddler” had triumphed. But only temporarily.the most high God is working and restoring His TRUE PASSOVER for all who desire to obey Him and keep His commandments! 1 Like |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by Nobody: 5:37pm On May 09, 2013 |
gy, are you an adventist? |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 5:45pm On May 09, 2013 |
olire: gy, are you an adventist? What does it matter what I am? The post is supposed to stimulate edifying discussions and not create boundaries. Lets hear your point of view if you have one. Peace, love and joy!! |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by AtheistD(m): 6:27pm On May 09, 2013 |
olire: gy, are you an adventist? Typical, why dont you answer his question.  |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 10:30am On May 10, 2013 |
Atheist:-D: Don't derail the discussion. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by AtheistD(m): 10:38am On May 10, 2013 |
MostHigh: You are derailing the discussion. Just stick to the topi and stop asking what denomination he is? |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by Nobody: 11:16am On May 10, 2013 |
PREACHHHHHHH SIRE. GOOD STUFF  |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by ninja4life(m): 12:03pm On May 10, 2013 |
Gosh all ye black christians slaves of rome and jews gods so d rome empire hav d power to change d doctrine of christianity and people still follow d roman empire edict and dey stop observing passover,smh for all dis confused people so does dat mean all those christians dat donot follow jesus teachings due to things like dis are going to hell or will god have mercy on them. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by AtheistD(m): 12:13pm On May 10, 2013 |
ninja4life: Gosh all ye black christians slaves of rome and jews gods so d rome empire hav d power to change d doctrine of christianity and people still follow d roman empire edict and dey stop observing passover,smh for all dis confused people so does dat mean all those christians dat donot follow jesus teachings due to things like dis are going to hell or will god have mercy on them.Interesting ...... |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 12:22pm On May 10, 2013 |
bullocks...bro go and study,why is your neck so stiff na. “For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed. Therefore let us keep the Festival, not with the old yeast of malice and wickedness, but with bread without yeast, the bread of sincerity and truth” (I Cor.5:7-8, NIV). in this age and the present dispensation, Christ is our passover and bread represents the word of God. the yeast represents adulteration of the word of God. Everything that happened in the old points back to Christ, understand it that way and you will have a clearer picture of the entire book. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by AtheistD(m): 12:29pm On May 10, 2013 |
shdemidemi: bullocks...bro go and study,why is your neck so stiff na. Hmmm..... interesting. It still doesnt state (or mean) that the original passover must be neglected. 1 Like |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 12:39pm On May 10, 2013 |
shdemidemi: bullocks...bro go and study,why is your neck so stiff na.Here comes the magician again trying transmute lead to gold Like I told you before shdemidemi, a people without a knowledge of their past is like a tree without roots. Pure lawlessness. Even when faced with the facts some individuals would rather ramble on like someone with multiple personality disorder Here we go again. shdemidemi For a man that has openly denied Christ as his king on this forum [b][/b]I beg of you please stop calling his name in vain. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 12:42pm On May 10, 2013 |
ninja4life: Gosh all ye black christians slaves of rome and jews gods so d rome empire hav d power to change d doctrine of christianity and people still follow d roman empire edict and dey stop observing passover,smh for all dis confused people so does dat mean all those christians dat donot follow jesus teachings due to things like dis are going to hell or will god have mercy on them. The most high God will show them his grace once they turn from their ways Else its a fiery judgement nukes and all. Peace Love and joy!!! 1 Like |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 12:57pm On May 10, 2013 |
MostHigh: joker..tell me the significance of the blood of christ? was the blood mentioned in mathew mark luke and john? if not,do you know why it wasn't? don't just be spitting what you know next to nothing about. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 1:05pm On May 10, 2013 |
shdemidemi: I don't know if you noticed but we are talking about factual history here, the Passover and how it was relegated by force by the DRAGON. The issue here is not the blood of Yashua the Christ If you do not agree with the post at least be mature enough to state why, clearly. and stop rambling like some old school pastor fellow. Should we all disregard history because of shdemidemi? Stop calling Yashua's name in vain. You Christ hater you... Lawless man. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 1:06pm On May 10, 2013 |
Atheist:-D: Everything that happened in the old were mysteries according to the scriptures that are revealed now. 26 This message is the secret truth that was hidden since the beginning of time. It was hidden from everyone for ages, but now it has been made known to God’s holy people. i don't take anything that happened in the old testament literally or naturally but spiritually because the bible says 2 Corinthians 5:16-18 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV) 16 From this time on we don’t think of anyone as the world thinks of people. It is true that in the past we thought of Christ as the world thinks. But we don’t think that way now. 17 When anyone is in Christ, it is a whole new world.[a] The old things are gone; suddenly, everything is new! |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 1:09pm On May 10, 2013 |
MostHigh: if you can come up with this false , rubbish OP. i assume you should be able to answer my question. tell me the significance of the blood of christ? was the blood mentioned in mathew mark luke and john? if not,do you know why it wasn't? |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 1:13pm On May 10, 2013 |
shdemidemi: Sometimes I wonder how you stay vertical with so much confusion going through your head. Like we said before if you disagree with the post then address it in the right context instead of quoting scriptures out of context. Christ hater like you. Lawlessnes |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 1:18pm On May 10, 2013 |
MostHigh: i am sorry..pls answer my question. tell me the significance of the blood of christ? was the blood mentioned in mathew mark luke and john? if not,do you know why it wasn't? |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 1:21pm On May 10, 2013 |
shdemidemi: shdemidemi What does the blood of yashua have to do with some military drunkards changing the Laws and times of the Most hight God Dan 7:25 And he shall speak [great] words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time. Is the above bolded not directly related to what we are discussing? Is the little Horn not your father? you both preach the same gospel (the truth is dead and done away with, now there is a new god) Clearly here we see the words TIMES and LAWs You are beginning to sound like that scratched CD again |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 1:36pm On May 10, 2013 |
MostHigh: you think you understand the book of Danie without the new testament,ye right? Even Daniel himself did not understand. 8 I heard the answer, but I really didn’t understand. So I asked, “Sir, what will happen after all this comes true?” 9 He answered, “Go on about your life Daniel. The message is hidden. It will be a secret until the time of the end. 10 Many people will be made pure—they will make themselves clean. But evil people will continue to be evil. And those wicked people will not understand these things, but the wise people will understand them. answer my question please. if you can't,then you have no business propagating the gospels and attacking people trying to teach you. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by AtheistD(m): 1:36pm On May 10, 2013 |
shdemidemi: Ok.... Hmmm.... Food for thought  However, the passover was celebrated in the old testament. Not to nag but the new testament never actually stated that it should not be celebrated. I think you need to look closer to the ecumenical council of Nicaea to get a more direct answer. A lot of aspects to modern Christianity were brought in around that time... and the purpose was to make Christians distinct from the Jews. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 1:39pm On May 10, 2013 |
Atheist:-D: I wonder why the bolded is not within the consciousness of most Christians today? Or why they fail to appreciate what that event truly means. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by AtheistD(m): 1:46pm On May 10, 2013 |
MostHigh: Exactly. Jews and Christians had constantly had beef with each other. Apparently Nero executed Christians on the behest of Jews. Would it not be likely that Christians would want to be distinct once the persecutions started to die out. They only started to have proper rights during Constantines reign. Prior to that they were still persecuted. Has anyone asked why they were so persecuted? Well, according to Jews, certain Christian rites etc were heretical and punishable by death. It was easy to target the non distinct Christians as they were similar to Jews and hence the Jews could claim that they were heretics as opposed to a new religion. By being made distinct as a separate religion they at least had some protection under Constantines reign. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 1:52pm On May 10, 2013 |
shdemidemi: Na you get your mouth. And which question does the Christ hater want me to answer? |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 2:00pm On May 10, 2013 |
bro,the christians are a separate entity from jews.When i say jew, i mean the 'nation' as a whole and not individuals. The christaians are a spiritual elect of God, while the jews are earthly elects. Every christian is a part of Christ, a collection of us makes up his mystical body and he is the head of the church but to the jews, Christ is their king and they are his subject. @mosthigh, address my question-what is the significance of the blood of christ? was the blood mentioned in mathew mark luke and john? if not,do you know why it wasn't? |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 2:06pm On May 10, 2013 |
Atheist:-D: Under Christ, the wall of partition has been broken. No more rituals of any form. All you need do as a christian is 'believe' in Christ and renew your mind through scriptures. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 2:13pm On May 10, 2013 |
Atheist:-D: Constantine claimed Christianity After declaring his conversion in A.D. 313, Constantine declared continuing support for and honour to all other current religions in Rome at the time and through his councils was able to setup a monster religion, AKA Christianity as we know it today. This monster religion encompassed all their belief systems of the religions combined. (council of laodacia) Furthermore, in A.D. 315, he issued coins with his head on one side and the motto, Sol Invictus, on the obverse, reaffirming his position as high priest of the cult of Mithris. (Sun god worship AKA luciferian worship) If you remember correctly all the apostles prophets and even Yashua the Christ were JEWS. So at least we can agree that the early Christians were JEWS and the case of Christians persecuting Jews sounds more like a case of divide and rule. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 2:15pm On May 10, 2013 |
@mosthigh, address my question-what is the significance of the blood of christ? was the blood mentioned in mathew mark luke and john? if not,do you know why it wasn't? |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 2:22pm On May 10, 2013 |
shdemidemi: @mosthigh, address my question-what is the significance of the blood of christ? was the blood mentioned in mathew mark luke and john? if not,do you know why it wasn't? shdemidemi what connection does that have to do with what we are discussing here? The Passover being changed by Rome is the discussion we are having here Are you trying to derail this thread? |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by shdemidemi(m): 2:40pm On May 10, 2013 |
I have noticed a trend on this forum on issues regarding grace and law, those against the law speak passionatly from the bible and rightly so For all you Grace apologetics (Goshen and his gang)who project paul as the central theme in thier messages, I will like to start the discussion with a qoute from paul My question has everything to do with your false start to the entire thread. Address that and we can mopve to the other parts. So, answer the questions. |
| Re: The Quatrodeciman Issue by MostHigh: 2:43pm On May 10, 2013 |
shdemidemi: I have noticed a trend on this forum on issues regarding grace and law, those against the law speak passionatly from the bible and rightly so Mr man you missed out the bolded below always try to reason in context, how many times shall the spirit remind thee Don't just talk for talking sake. I think we all need to calm down and take a look at our past histories and see if we are missing anything per say Also. please I aint no mind reader, can you explain yourself a bit more or get one of your brethren to try and explain what you are saying cause seems like your speaking in tounges |
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