ijawkid:

Lol....NO...Jesus is the beginning of Gods creation..........

Somebody create Jesus......

You would have to erase Jesus being the beginning of and firstborn of Gods creation from the bible to escape this glaring truth....

Make I paste the definition of procreate from thasaurus...

procreate
Parts of Speech: verb
Definition: reproduce
Synonyms: beget, breed, conceive, create,
engender

beget
Parts of Speech: verb
Definition: create, bear
Synonyms: afford, breed, bring, bring about,
cause

breed
Parts of Speech: verb
Definition: generate, bring into being
Synonyms: bear, beget, bring about, bring forth,
cause


Which ever way u want am scriptures full ground berekete to show you the truth.........

benalvino:

could you do me a favor and create a kid that have 7 hands?

Oboy you have been dodging right left and center......

BERNIMOORE:

benalvino is a real dodger, you cant blame him, all what he is been writing about the trinity issue he cannot defend them personally, he need to learn but adamant with a short sight arrogance, he cant just answer

ijawkid:

Oboy you have been dodging right left and center......

I asked you to give me examples of where the expreSsion beginning of is used with respects to living things but you have refused to....all u did was define what arche is and ran away....I have given you scriptural definitions and you say pro creation and creation is not the same........

And then I made the outstanding point that if parents pro create ofcourse God creates and so is Jesus being created by God.......

But no way you won't agree because you just can't bear the fact that Jesus had a beginning.......benimoore even quoted scriptures to show who wisdom is but you shove them aside.....you blind fold your eyes to the verses where wisdom unequivocally says ""I was born"........and lo and behold that wisdom is the beginning of Gods creation.....a perfect definition of the expression we've been considering.......

You can keep yapping awake,Watchtower and JW that's your business.....many on this site who love truths would go back home and do there home work.......

Keep struggling with truth until it dawns on you........

I wrote this specifically for you as you came yapping about colossians and firstborn instead of doing as I say go back and read what we have already said you refuse. so I post this and no matter what you do I wont say anything here concerning that matter if you want to know my stance on firstborn go here https://www.nairaland.com/1318212/firstborn-does-it-mean-first else forget...

BERNIMOORE:

sorry, i dont know you from Adam, so also you dont know me, but a reasonable approach is to ask if im a jehovahs witnesses or not, maybe they are the ones pushing you to the limit in every corner you seems to hide is not my problem, your earlier discussion that you posted are with holes as i have noted and have read similar things on other trinity treads expecially olaadegbu and i have battled to a stand still, so you only show the weakness in you by dodging the questions posed as the ones discussed earlier on the tread has not satisfied the truth or left with exegical holes, and even those who started the tread responded that you still get the collossian issue confused, but thinking that you have buried the truth, it pops up again and again but you held on to a weak defence in desperation.

benalvino:

earlier I told you procreate means reproduce and your definition states same thing... you trying to make it sound like the father of the baby is a creator he creates his children when the verse you quote is talking about reproductive power... go into the world and multiply man and women mate the product is a baby.

dogs fly fish birds do it. how is it special or close to how God creates us? am saying if your firend Bernimoore says the father creates or is the creator of the child to support Colossians then make that father create the child from dust give him wings to fly.

how am I dodging anything? the example you give no change my argument and if you define procreation as reproduce am ok with it.

there are thousands of post here and I have posted over 200 am just tired going back to explain stuffs I have done with lengthy post over and over again all in the name of someone just come and try to draw me back

ijawkid:

Simple analogies has become so hard........

And the definition of pro-creation still means to create....it goes both ways........

The Father of the baby is the sole owner of the baby...abi you no dey read bible again??.......

Cheiii.........

Why you think say na males God dey put for front since??........


its like you have taken Gods power away to create............

Why is it hard for you to agree Jesus was brought forth,created,formed,produced,??...why...even when scripture don tell you tire......

benalvino:

we are still saying same thing... it also mean reproduce which fits into the context. if it means create as you say am asking you to create a baby or kid with 7 hand that's all.

goldplated: ah ah common sense will tell you to give birth you got to create. english or in any language, having a firstborn means creating and giving birth to your first child.

ijawkid: Na God here we dey talk about........

CREATE na him be God work........

Abi u tie God hand??.....

benalvino:



you see how created and birth argument start? he is talking about humans... he says to give birth you got to create!!! now am saying if that is the case create a child with 7 hand. because you as the creator you have to decide what features to give your creation something like 8 eyes 6 legs 3 brain etc. you get my point?

benalvino:

you are busy reading magazines instead of bible. if you want to learn read from the start ok... I don't want to explain to you again I have already done that... from the way you understand what I wrote I refuse to continue with you. if you wan to learn about colosians I just posted and article goto https://www.nairaland.com/1318212/firstborn-does-it-mean-first you will learn something.

[size=13pt]The Deceptive Triune God[/size]


As I looked, thrones were placed and one that was ancient of days took his seat; his raiment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like pure wool" (Daniel 7:9).

The Trinitarian God is a new god. A three person god was not the God of the Israelites nor was a three person being the God of Jesus. We have absolutely no reason to believe the Old Testament Jews, or Jesus, knew anything about serving a three person God. The Israelite God was not a three person God. Jesus, an Israelite, also served a one person God, his Father and only his Father.

"My Father and your Father, my God and your God." - Jesus

When confronted with the very serious gravity of this problem, Trinitarians contrive a response that usually goes something like "God had not fully revealed Himself" to anyone before the birth of Christ. In other words, God told the truth, just not the "whole truth." Does such a claim really pan out? Did God simply refrain from revealing the number of persons of God? Or is this a disingenuous claim of a people worshiping a disingenuous God created by men? Did the one God of Israel indeed represent himself as one singular person to the people of Israel? Yes, He most certainly did.

Let us suppose, for the sake of argument, the God which Old Testament Jews worshiped was indeed a three person God. Now let us suppose this three person God never once even offered a hint as to the number of persons that constituted the entity known as "God." And let us suppose the Chosen people of God, the Israelites, had absolutely no evidence whatsoever to indicate how many persons God was. Let us suppose that no evidence at all from God existed that would lead the Israelites to believe one way or the other. If that were the case, then could we say that God simply "did not fully reveal" the number of persons that made up the entity "God?" Yes we could. If that was indeed the case, one could claim "God had not fully revealed himself" just as Trinitarians do. But was this the case? No, it is most certainly not.

This new Trinitarian three person God is a very disingenuous God. He is downright deceptive. In the Old Testament, we find the one God of Israel led His people to think that he was simply one person, the Father, and the Spirit of God was what he was, His divine power, energy and presence, the Holy Spirit of the Holy God. But the Trinitarian would have us believe that we are to understand the Old Testament Holy Spirit was a third divine person of the Triune Godhead in addition to God the Father and Jesus. God just coyly forgot to mention this three person multiplicity to the thousands of people who lived, and followed Him, and died believing He was one person. This three person God spent an inordinate amount of effort revealing everything under the sun to the Israelites but forgot to mention what Trinitarians claim is the most important doctrine of the faith: that God was three persons and not one.

Trinitarians attempt to say that God simply refrained from revealing all the facts and this is His perogative. But that is not the situation we have and the situation is much, much worse than God refraining from telling His chosen people the whole truth about Himself. The Triune God knowingly led his people to think otherwise. This is deception. The three person God was a deceptive God representing himself himself as one person when He was actually three all along. He spoke of Himself profusely with the singular personal pronouns "I," and "Me," and inspires his prophets to describe Him with the singular personal pronouns "He," and "Him," even though he was a three person being all along. God knows very well that humans understand this kind of language is used to refer to a single person. If indeed God was three persons he was knowingly misleading his own people.

And God represented himself as a singular person by invoking anthropomorphic terminology as well. He portrayed himself in terms of a single human person. Of course we all know he wasn't trying to convey he was a human being of flesh. But it is also quite plain that God fully intended to give the Jews the notion that he was one person by describing himself in this manner. He describes himself as "a soul," the Hebrew word for a person. He went for walks in the Garden of Eden like a singular human person would; He portrays himself with the visual images of singular person who has eyes, ears and a heart, arms and fingers, a back, the white hair of an old man, and sits on a throne in heaven surrounded by angels, the Father of his chosen people, the Israelites being His firstborn son. These are all things we are conditioned to ascribe to a singular person. And of course this is something God knows. And God also knows that it is absolute deception to know that such language would cause people to think one thing if indeed another thing was actually the truth. The Trinitarian three person God is an extremely disingenuous God who misled His own people into believing He was one person when He never was. All along while the faithful Israelites chanted the Shema, "the LORD our God, the LORD is one" and thought to themselves that God was one singular person because He had presented Himself to them as one person in many and various ways, Trinitarians would have us believe that He was actually one trio of three persons all along. The new Trinitarian God is a very deceptive God.


Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God (Acts 7:56).

The Trinitarian God finds no problem with creating total chaos and confusion among His own chosen people due to the fact he regularly represented himself in a way that He knew would lead His people to think He was one person. In the Old Testament, Yahweh identifies Himself in singular person terminology and as the Father of His Chosen People and they are all commanded to remember that "the Lord our God the Lord is One" with all these singular person images implanted in their minds by God Himself. In fact, Yahweh, explicitly identifying himself as the Father, told the Israelites there was no other God besides "Me." How misleading. This "Father" was a three person being all along. The prophesied Messiah is understood to be the son of Yahweh and begotten of Yahweh. Who was this one God who would beget this Son? A three person being? Jesus is the Son of God Most High and identifies his God as his Father and his Father as his God. Indeed, we too are sons of this God. Who is this God who begets these sons? A three person God? We are told even further that the one God is the Father of the spirits of all men and all men are his offspring who live and move and have their being in Him. A three person God? The Lord and God of Jesus was Yahweh God and He still is the Lord and God of Jesus. Who was Jesus' God? One person or three? Jesus' apostle, Paul, refers to the Father as "the one God" and Jesus is the mediator between men and this one God. We are told that the Father of Jesus is the only one who possesses self-immortality. Jesus' apostle, Jude, describes the Father as "the only God." God's Son Jesus describes the Father as "the only God." John describes the Father as "the true God." Paul describes the Father as the "living and true God." Jesus refers to His Father as "the only true God." But according to Trinitarians, we are not to understand that any of these statements mean that the Father alone is the only true God. No, no, don't be silly. We are to believe that God Most High is a three person being who had unfortunately led the naive Israelites into supposing he was one person, their Abba Father, and in spite of the plain fact that this supposed three person God is not once reported anywhere in the Scriptures.


We have one Father - God (John 8:41).

Did a three person God simply refrain from "fully revealing" His true identity? No. Nothing could be further from the truth. The God of the Old Testament revealed himself to the Israelites in many and various ways that normally indicate one singular person to people. If indeed He is one person He was being quite truthful with everyone. But if He is actually three persons this God was being totally deceptive. The Triune God knew all along these representations would lead his people into thinking he was one person, just as they do to this very day. The Trinitarian three person God is a very deceptive God.

http://www.angelfire.com/space/thegospeltruth/trinity/articles/disingenuousgod.html

Boomark: Godhead

trinitarians need to ask themselves:
what is all fullness?
What is Godhead?

Col 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fullnessof the Godhead bodily.

Note carefully that Godhead is dwelling in Christ. He is not part or in Godhead but it dwells in him. Godhead means God's nature, divine qualities. Research it.

Colossians 1:19-20
New International Version (NIV)
19 For God was pleased to have all
his fullness dwell in him, 20 and
through him to reconcile to himself
all things, whether things on earth
or things in heaven, by making
peace through his blood, shed on
the cross.

For it pleases the Father to have the fullness of His nature(Godhead) in Christ. So that through Christ God will reconcile everything back to Himself and no other person.

Romans 1:19-20
King James Version (KJV)
19 Because that which may be
known of God is manifest in them;
for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him
from the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being understood by
the things that are made, even his
eternal power and Godhead; so
that they are without excuse:

This one will help you understand that eternal power and Godhead is something that belongs to the Father and not that He is in it or part of it.

Ephesians 1:22-23
New International Version (NIV)
22 And God placed all things under
his feet and appointed him to be
head over everything for the
church, 23 which is his body, the
fullness of him who fills everything
in every way.

It is God that gave Christ the authority he has by putting all things under his feet. But you are mistaken by making him equal to God after seeing the authority he possess. It is God that fills everything He pleases with His fullness.
Godhead is not made up 3 persons but God's nature or qualities.