okine4real:

information reaching me these morning saying grass cutters has starting eating the palms. Please i want to erect scare crows in the farm. Do you think these would scare the grass cutters away? if do i go for the net they where talking about? if i use net how much would each cost?

@felixzol pls send me your phone no
@cordj2 pls send me your phone no

mine email is okine4real@yahoo.com

Thanks.

the grass cutters are the first enemy of this business and there is not much you can do to this, using net apart from the cost ( u need to peg round each of the tree b4 rolling d net round d palm seedling), will affect the growth of the seedling, erect scare crows will not do much rather because that is mostly use for birds.
one thing that mostly work is keep the farm clear of weed and let those looking after it visit the farm as much as possible.

this buz require money but worth it

@ igbonla. nice one! thanks 4 ur enlightment. did u say 10,000 or 1,000 trees of plaintain on an acre of land.? sorry, i no dis is nt a plantain thread, but since it has it own added advantages in supporting young oil palm plantation, i think there's need 2 share some vital inform on it. plss. igbonla, let me hear 4rm u.

igbonla: Nice thread, but felixzo1's gave the most accurate information. Young farmers should be careful when starting out otherwise wrong fram practices will lead to immeasurable losses that would send anybody out of business.

Learning is the first step in any business endeavor, go ask my friend, Nnamdi, at Alaba.

I wanted to attach a document from FAO as a guide but I am unable to attach it, Nairaland says I cannot attach anything bigger than 200kb. Document is 984kb, let me know how to attach it if you have an idea.
Don't expect a good yield if you don't follow established guidelines. You dont need to pay for any feasibility study document that is coming from somebody who may not have any practical experience.

Okine4real is contending with grasscutters attacking his young palms, pretty hilarious that he plan on using scarecrow. Scarecrow are for birds not grasscutters and he must not replaced the palms until he has the metal protector. Do not use net, as recommended in the attached document, except if the net is made of stainless steel. Most net materials in the market will rust out before the end of the raining season this year.
Spacing is critical and the same poster got it wrong, please do not proceed without correcting this error. Palm trees need the space otherwise the competition for nutrients will kill them off and kill your investments.

Maintenance of the plantation is critical, very critical to its survival and achievement of your revenue projection, Farming is hard but rewarding work, just do it right.

By all means, please introduce plantain into your palm tree plantation when starting out. It helps kill the weeds as the plantain grows up (it is generally used in growing cash crops that require some years to reach maturity - cocoa, etc). And guess what, the plantain provide the cash to maintain the farm and also pay for the original investment. Please do the analysis based on about 10,000 plantains per acre and tell me you wont make your money back in one year.

Pardon any typos.

hi bro, kindly mail me the report/study about the plantation.
canonbj66@gmail.com

Pls I need copy of the report. My email is segunsam2002@yahoo.co.uk

Now talking about the spacing... Do you people know what 9 Meter spacing is? i know some of us know, but not all. See the standard plot is 120 feet by 60 feet. 60 feet is 6 meter, So for you to get 9 meter spacing half plot is gone, then you also have to add another 20 feet to the 60 feet before you can get 9 meter spacing.... So when they say 9 meter people please you need to understand what 9 meter is.

Now also if people are using 9 meter, the first thing you should ask is, what is the whole 9 meter meant for. Dont just let people tell you things and you swallow them. Am not saying 9 meter spacing is wrong but if you know why people are using 9 meter spacing then you understand the spacing more, then also you can reduce the spacing by cutting out some amount of space in the 9 meter because you know that you dont need some amount of the space.

let me break it down for you guys. When a palm is lets say 35 years oil, the palm leave is around 1.5 meter. So if you have two trees standing lets say tree A and tree B. Tree A palm leave stretch to Tree B consuming 1.5 meter out of the 9 meter. Now Tree B palm leave stretch back to Palm A consuming another 1.5 meter there by consuming another 1.5 meter out of the 9 meter. Now with this stage you are left with 6 meter in between both trees. The 6 Meter is meant for what?? that is the first question you ask yourself. Now the 6 meter is meant for tractors, trailers that would be moving in between your plantation. But as an entrepreneur or as a small scale farmer you might not have money to buy or hire a tractor or you might not want to use a trailer, so you look for other means in which you would move your palm fruits from the plantation to the milling factory.

Now as for me, since i know that i only need 3 meter spacing in between two trees, i dont want to use a tractor and i dont want to use a trailer in between by plantation. So what did i do, i would use a manual or semi manual means of transporting mine palms to the side of the plantation, once i have achieve that, then mine trailer would be waiting at the sides of the plantation. I dont know if you guys understand what am saying... If you leave 3 meter spacing in between each palm, then you cant drive your cars in between the plantation that's all.

My mothers brother has a plantation of about 150 palms. he used 3 meter spacing.. they use will barrow to transport the palm fruits out of the plantation to his house then he sells the palm fruit in his house. his trees are about 35 years old now, the leaves are almost torching each other now... So if the plantation is 35 years old and the palm leaves are not torching each other... then any body that wants to use 3 meter spacing should not be afraid.. Also 3 meter spacing is equal to 10 feet.

The key is... go and see a plantation that is 35 years old, look at the spacing and know if it would work or not.. But you must have it in mine that, how you would transport that palms fruit from the plantation to your milling factory... once you have device a good strategy then, just start counting your millions.. This is all i have to say for now... More question and i would answer.

henrimoto: @ igbonla. nice one! thanks 4 ur enlightment. did u say 10,000 or 1,000 trees of plaintain on an acre of land.? sorry, i no dis is nt a plantain thread, but since it has it own added advantages in supporting young oil palm plantation, i think there's need 2 share some vital inform on it. plss. igbonla, let me hear 4rm u.

I apologize for the typo, it is 10,000 plantain per hectare (2.5 acres). I have corrected the info in the earlier post.

Thanks for pointing it out. Not sure of what else to share on the plantain but it is pretty straightforward once you get the real suckers and there are many good sources around.
I have another manual on that but it is too bulky to be attached here, still waiting for ideas on how to make it smaller by those experienced in such.

okine4real: Now talking about the spacing... Do you people know what 9 Meter spacing is? i know some of us know, but not all. See the standard plot is 120 feet by 60 feet. 60 feet is 6 meter, So for you to get 9 meter spacing half plot is gone, then you also have to add another 20 feet to the 60 feet before you can get 9 meter spacing.... So when they say 9 meter people please you need to understand what 9 meter is.

Now also if people are using 9 meter, the first thing you should ask is, what is the whole 9 meter meant for. Dont just let people tell you things and you swallow them. Am not saying 9 meter spacing is wrong but if you know why people are using 9 meter spacing then you understand the spacing more, then also you can reduce the spacing by cutting out some amount of space in the 9 meter because you know that you dont need some amount of the space.

let me break it down for you guys. When a palm is lets say 35 years oil, the palm leave is around 1.5 meter. So if you have two trees standing lets say tree A and tree B. Tree A palm leave stretch to Tree B consuming 1.5 meter out of the 9 meter. Now Tree B palm leave stretch back to Palm A consuming another 1.5 meter there by consuming another 1.5 meter out of the 9 meter. Now with this stage you are left with 6 meter in between both trees. The 6 Meter is meant for what?? that is the first question you ask yourself. Now the 6 meter is meant for tractors, trailers that would be moving in between your plantation. But as an entrepreneur or as a small scale farmer you might not have money to buy or hire a tractor or you might not want to use a trailer, so you look for other means in which you would move your palm fruits from the plantation to the milling factory.

Now as for me, since i know that i only need 3 meter spacing in between two trees, i dont want to use a tractor and i dont want to use a trailer in between by plantation. So what did i do, i would use a manual or semi manual means of transporting mine palms to the side of the plantation, once i have achieve that, then mine trailer would be waiting at the sides of the plantation. I dont know if you guys understand what am saying... If you leave 3 meter spacing in between each palm, then you cant drive your cars in between the plantation that's all.

My mothers brother has a plantation of about 150 palms. he used 3 meter spacing.. they use will barrow to transport the palm fruits out of the plantation to his house then he sells the palm fruit in his house. his trees are about 35 years old now, the leaves are almost torching each other now... So if the plantation is 35 years old and the palm leaves are not torching each other... then any body that wants to use 3 meter spacing should not be afraid.. Also 3 meter spacing is equal to 10 feet.

The key is... go and see a plantation that is 35 years old, look at the spacing and know if it would work or not.. But you must have it in mine that, how you would transport that palms fruit from the plantation to your milling factory... once you have device a good strategy then, just start counting your millions.. This is all i have to say for now... More question and i would answer.

Your analysis is partially correct but dealt with just one side..the space allow tractors quite all right but you need to study how each palm draw nutrients from the ground and why spacing less than 9m will reduce nutrients available for optimal growth and fruting of the palm. The roots get in each others way when the trees are too close, thereby reducing the yield (not that you wont harvest something but it will be reduced)
The yield from the palm trees that are too close to each other will be significantly lower than when you observe the right spacing. You can use 4.5m by 7.8m like in the extract I attached earlier and you will still get good results but the best result comes from 9m by 9m.

The local, old farmers used to be happy with just 2, 3 bunches per palm tree but times have changed. We now make projections based on yield per hectare and expect 10 bunches per tree!

Will try get the link to the document on the web and post here so folks can directly access it. I am not able to email it as I do not have a dummy email address for these kind of request.

igbonla:

Your analysis is partially correct but dealt with just one side..the space allow tractors quite all right but you need to study how each palm draw nutrients from the ground and why spacing less than 9m will reduce nutrients available for optimal growth and fruting of the palm. The roots get in each others way when the trees are too close, thereby reducing the yield (not that you wont harvest something but it will be reduced)
The yield from the palm trees that are too close to each other will be significantly lower than when you observe the right spacing. You can use 4.5m by 7.8m like in the extract I attached earlier and you will still get good results but the best result comes from 9m by 9m.

The local, old farmers used to be happy with just 2, 3 bunches per palm tree but times have changed. We now make projections based on yield per hectare and expect 10 bunches per tree!

Will try get the link to the document on the web and post here so folks can directly access it. I am not able to email


it as I do not have a dummy email address for these kind of request.

hi bro,
cant see any attachment on this forum.
why not attach it to my mail and send.
canonbj66@gmail.com

thanks

igbonla:

Your analysis is partially correct but dealt with just one side..the space allow tractors quite all right but you need to study how each palm draw nutrients from the ground and why spacing less than 9m will reduce nutrients available for optimal growth and fruting of the palm. The roots get in each others way when the trees are too close, thereby reducing the yield (not that you wont harvest something but it will be reduced)
The yield from the palm trees that are too close to each other will be significantly lower than when you observe the right spacing. You can use 4.5m by 7.8m like in the extract I attached earlier and you will still get good results but the best result comes from 9m by 9m.

The local, old farmers used to be happy with just 2, 3 bunches per palm tree but times have changed. We now make projections based on yield per hectare and expect 10 bunches per tree!

Will try get the link to the document on the web and post here so folks can directly access it. I am not able to email it as I do not have a dummy email address for these kind of request.

Its a plus for me... that you said part of mine write up is partially correct. All i but here was something i read and researched mine self.... I was just saying a farmer can twist things to his own advantage thats all. As for the way the palms absorb nutrients... I was told by one of mine consultant that, the main reason why most people dont water palms when they plant them or even when there is dry season is because, as the palm grow, there root go straight down to the water table... The root dont grow side ways.... 90% of there root go inside the ground. Also am not still quoting you wrong but look at it dis way.

if i have 200 hectare of land.. i can plant 30,000 palm according to the normal 150 palms per hectare. but with lets say 30 hectares i can also plant the said 30,000 palm.. if i follow your saying which you said if you reduce the spacing, one would get a slight reduced palm fruit.... I think am okay with that... If i have 200 hectares and i plant 30,000 and every year i get 100,000 liters of oil, if then have 30 hectares and i have 30,000 palms and i get 90,000 or 95,000 liters of oil, i think the business is worth it, because instead of buying 200 hectares which would cost me lets say 10M, i would buy just 30 hectares for just 1M or less.

But the main issue here is, people should know that, they can reduce the space in between. But am happy that, you really agreed with mine write up.. because since you agree, then it means am making sense.. Thanks Boss

just to chip in an advice, has anyone tried those villagers and enquire on how its done traditionally , especially the spacing and produce per tree.

u guys are great, i'm seriously learning.

mine feasibility report just dropped in mine mail. i dont know if these business is blood money but am seeing 60M Net profit. And from his analysis the land is just 25 acre which means its just 1500 palms trees. How can 1500 palm trees give you 60M net profit? even if its from the 8 year one start making these kind of profit, is it possible?

@okine... Thank you for this thread. Am opting to give this biz a lot. Am looking at ika and oshimili to set up the biz. Am from kwale. The fund was originally to buy d state fertilizer plant in nasarawa, but my people pulled out, cos of recent security challenge. Am to present something in d region of 1.5 m usd. Can I secure an appropriate area of land around these place? Have u worked on the processing part, I would like to kick off with dt too. My experience with export makes me know the very vast market for its related products. Can I integrate groundnut? As I have great market for that too. I don't think plantain of that magnitude can have ready market but @Igonla, you can help with that. Also, how many times does this nifor specie fruit in a year? Thank you

kunlekunle:



hi bro,
cant see any attachment on this forum.
why not attach it to my mail and send.
canonbj66@gmail.com

thanks

There is an attachment in one of my posts; Sorry, I am unable to email it but you can get the full document and more from the links below.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/t0309e/t0309e00.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/y4355e/y4355e03.htm

Best of luck!

okine4real: mine feasibility report just dropped in mine mail. i dont know if these business is blood money but am seeing 60M Net profit. And from his analysis the land is just 25 acre which means its just 1500 palms trees. How can 1500 palm trees give you 60M net profit? even if its from the 8 year one start making these kind of profit, is it possible?

Plz, can you help me with the report? Hailzukky2@gmail.com

@okine4real, 60 feet is actually 18 meters, not 6 meters.

okine4real:


Its a plus for me... that you said part of mine write up is partially correct. All i but here was something i read and researched mine self.... I was just saying a farmer can twist things to his own advantage thats all. As for the way the palms absorb nutrients... I was told by one of mine consultant that, the main reason why most people dont water palms when they plant them or even when there is dry season is because, as the palm grow, there root go straight down to the water table... The root dont grow side ways.... 90% of there root go inside the ground. Also am not still quoting you wrong but look at it dis way.

if i have 200 hectare of land.. i can plant 30,000 palm according to the normal 150 palms per hectare. but with lets say 30 hectares i can also plant the said 30,000 palm.. if i follow your saying which you said if you reduce the spacing, one would get a slight reduced palm fruit.... I think am okay with that... If i have 200 hectares and i plant 30,000 and every year i get 100,000 liters of oil, if then have 30 hectares and i have 30,000 palms and i get 90,000 or 95,000 liters of oil, i think the business is worth it, because instead of buying 200 hectares which would cost me lets say 10M, i would buy just 30 hectares for just 1M or less.

But the main issue here is, people should know that, they can reduce the space in between. But am happy that, you really agreed with mine write up.. because since you agree, then it means am making sense.. Thanks Boss

Bros, I will be a billionaire if it works like that! Using your analogy, you will be lucky to get 30,000 liters if you squeeze same 30,000 palms into 30 hectares instead of 200 ha.

You should fire your consultant that claimed the root of oil palm tree grow down to the water table, pretty ridiculous explanation as to why the oil palm tree is not watered. The root is best classified as fibrous, never tap root.
Here is a quote from a research document on the root of oil palm trees; "Field observations showed that roots could grow vertically, either upwards or downwards, horizontally, or without any specific direction in relation to gravity. In the oil palm root system, all root types maintain the same direction of growth throughout their life span, and branching angles are always very close to 90 degree, irrespective of topological order".

okine4real: mine feasibility report just dropped in mine mail. i dont know if these business is blood money but am seeing 60M Net profit. And from his analysis the land is just 25 acre which means its just 1500 palms trees. How can 1500 palm trees give you 60M net profit? even if its from the 8 year one start making these kind of profit, is it possible?

60M net profit from 25 acres! Too good to be true and you should be careful with some of these projections.

You can make your own projections from little information available on yield and cost of investment, the only challenge will be how to estimate your yield/ha since you are using different spacing from what is in the literature.

igbonla:

There is an attachment in one of my posts; Sorry, I am unable to email it but you can get the full document and more from the links below.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/006/t0309e/t0309e00.htm
http://www.fao.org/docrep/005/y4355e/y4355e03.htm

Best of luck!

cheers man

DueTime: @okine4real, 60 feet is actually 18 meters, not 6 meters.

@ okine4real, take note of this.. what is d standard measurement of a plot of land? is it 120 ft by 60 ft or 100 meters by 100 meters. ? secondly, weather u like it or not. its better u starts now 2 plan and consider d future changes and developments dat will surely occur inside d oil palm plantation. u 're starting on a small scale now should nt mean u should close up d plan 4 a tractor- way inside and around d plantation in d nearest future. with d kind of large projections we 're aiming at here, it's nt d type dat manual labour or crude implements will aid.

Am still trying to understand his feasibility report ohh. The report they make me do like say i nor sabi read book again. I dont understand what the man wrote ohh. But i went through the feasibility report again, i saw where he wrote 20 hectares. and as we all know, even if you plant 150 palms per hectare then you would have 3000 palms on 20 hectares. Now this is where the maths is.. When the palms are about 9 to 10 years old, the palms would have matured... From mine calculation and from what some people on these thread told me on the phone via discussion, they said a tree can give 40 liter of palm oil per year. which means 40 liters multiplied by 3000 palms would give you 120,000 liters per year dont forget in the 9th year upwards. Dont forget, you would get the amount of oil when your tree reach about 9 years. So divide 120,000 by 25 assuming you want to sell your oil in 25 liter gallon you would have 4,800 gallons. Now multiply 4,500 naira per 25 liter gallon by 4800 gallons you would get 21,600,000 Naira. now these is just for the palm oil only. i dont know how much palm kernel oil one can get from these 3000 palms yet, but i know one can get like 5M or more. So if you put everything to 27M, now your running expenses can be put to 10M may be or less, so if you keep like 17M, please house is these a good business?
Also @igbonla is these projections reasonable? since you are more practical in the business now...

igbonla:

I apologize for the typo, it is 10,000 plantain per hectare (2.5 acres). I have corrected the info in the earlier post.

Thanks for pointing it out. Not sure of what else to share on the plantain but it is pretty straightforward once you get the real suckers and there are many good sources around.
I have another manual on that but it is too bulky to be attached here, still waiting for ideas on how to make it smaller by those experienced in such.

@ igbonla. can u please share d soft copy of ur plantain manual with? it will be of great help to me. ... here is my mail. henrimoto@rocketmail.com thanks!

henrimoto: @ okine4real, take note of this.. what is d standard measurement of a plot of land? is it 120 ft by 60 ft or 100 meters by 100 meters. ? secondly, weather u like it or not. its better u starts now 2 plan and consider d future changes and developments dat will surely occur inside d oil palm plantation. u 're starting on a small scale now should nt mean u should close up d plan 4 a tractor- way inside and around d plantation in d nearest future. with d kind of large projections we 're aiming at here, it's nt d type dat manual labour or crude implements will aid.

Am from ibusa Delta state and the standard plot side is 100 feet by 100 feet. I dont need tractors to drive in between the plant. i have mine calculation on how to transport the palms, not manual per say.... But i would update on that later...

okine4real:

Am from ibusa Delta state and the standard plot side is 100 feet by 100 feet. I dont need tractors to drive in between the plant. i have mine calculation on how to transport the palms, not manual per say.... But i would update on that later...

Bros, u no answer me again? Plz, reply

like as i said... i paid 10k for the report... If you where the initial person that paid for the feasibility report and i tell you to send it to me free of charge, you would not agree, because you paid for it... Even all i have wrote here, if it where someone that wants to hide information, he would not put them up there. All i have written here is first class information. These are practical information. If you want to start up yours just use what i wrote as guideline and your cash wastage would reduce. If you need the feasibility report pay 5k, then i would mail it to you. Then if another person as you to send it to him, charge them also because you paid for it. Abi i do bad?

DueTime: @okine4real, 60 feet is actually 18 meters, not 6 meters.

Yes you are correct. Its these whole calculation that is disrupting mine head.

Am looking at buying 100 plots now of 100 feet by 100 feet per plot. Am looking at planting 10,000 palms.. and i would use 3 meter spacing... i dont need trailers moving in between my plantation. All i want is transfer all mine harvest to either the left or right hand side of the plantation. Once all the palms are there... then mine trailer would load from there.

So am looking at making mine mail money from the 10, 000 palms not the 1,900 palms i have planted.

prologue: @okine... Thank you for this thread. Am opting to give this biz a lot. Am looking at ika and oshimili to set up the biz. Am from kwale. The fund was originally to buy d state fertilizer plant in nasarawa, but my people pulled out, cos of recent security challenge. Am to present something in d region of 1.5 m usd. Can I secure an appropriate area of land around these place? Have u worked on the processing part, I would like to kick off with dt too. My experience with export makes me know the very vast market for its related products. Can I integrate groundnut? As I have great market for that too. I don't think plantain of that magnitude can have ready market but @Igonla, you can help with that. Also, how many times does this nifor specie fruit in a year? Thank you

this business does not have quick returns, it is a longterm thing.and you will not be making any income for 4 years,just take note, 4 years is not 4 months.if you want to recover your investment fast,this business is not for you

okine4real:

Yes you are correct. Its these whole calculation that is disrupting mine head.

Am looking at buying 100 plots now of 100 feet by 100 feet per plot. Am looking at planting 10,000 palms.. and i would use 3 meter spacing... i dont need trailers moving in between my plantation. All i want is transfer all mine harvest to either the left or right hand side of the plantation. Once all the palms are there... then mine trailer would load from there.

So am looking at making mine mail money from the 10, 000 palms not the 1,900 palms i have planted.

a friend of mine was telling me how his uncle planted oil palm at 3 meters spacing, when the palm were 4 years old , they did not produce any fruits but keep growing taller. some that had fruits, the fruits were very small in size. the man had to kill some of the trees before they started producing optimally .i will strongly such you plant at recommended densities in future.you are risking the yields of your plantation entirely.

felixzo1: this business does not have quick returns, it is a longtime thing.and you will not be making any income for 4 years,just take note, 4 years is not 4 months.if you want to recover your investment fast,this business is not for you

I noticed that too. Though its a good biz, I will haVe to wait awhile.
Tnx

Ok good then. That's why i opened the thread any way.. I wanted to get more practical knowledge from people that are directly in the business. I would re strategise. I think i would go for 6 Meter spacing in mine next plantation. But I still say it that, mine uncle has a plantation and he used 3 meter spacing... But just that i dont know how productive the plantation is, when compared to someone that used 9 meter spacing. But @felix01, if i use 6 meter spacing triangle what do you think?

okine4real: Ok good then. That's why i opened the thread any way.. I wanted to get more practical knowledge from people that are directly in the business. I would re strategise. I think i would go for 6 Meter spacing in mine next plantation. But I still say it that, mine uncle has a plantation and he used 3 meter spacing... But just that i dont know how productive the plantation is, when compared to someone that used 9 meter spacing. But @felix01, if i use 6 meter spacing triangle what do you think?

@ okine4real.. bros. u sound as if u ve nt done enough research 2 justify u using 3 meters in-between trees on ur oil palm plantation. u ve nt observed very well, d productive capacity of ur uncles oil palm farm dat used 3 meters apart,.... pls,take ur time to observe other oil palm plantation with standard measurement or wider measurement to dat of ur uncle's own.

naijababe: Very impressive. This used to be one of my interests and I hope to be able to pursue it one day. Goodluck boys.

Palm Oil - OYEL - not Palm WINE. Omuti.

henrimoto: @ okine4real.. bros. u sound as if u ve nt done enough research 2 justify u using 3 meters in-between trees on ur oil palm plantation. u ve nt observed very well, d productive capacity of ur uncles oil palm farm dat used 3 meters apart,.... pls,take ur time to observe other oil palm plantation with standard measurement or wider measurement to dat of ur uncle's own.

I HAVE SPEND MORE THEM 3.5M AS WE SPECK. THERE IS KNOW WAY I WOULD NOT DO RESEARCH BEFORE GOING INTO IT, BUT THE PROBLEMS IS, I DID NOT KNOW I WAS DEALING WITH FOOLS... I THINK FOOL IS AN UNDERSTATEMENT...JUST DONT KNOW WHAT TO CALL MINE UNCLE RIGHT NOW.. AS AT NOW.. THERE IS FIRE ON THE MOUNTAIN OHH. I WOULD HAVE TO TRAVEL SOON TO IBUSA AND PUT THING IN ORDER. THATS WHY ITS GOOD NEVER LEAVE YOUR BUSINESS IN THE HAND OF NONPROFESSIONAL. I STILL AGREE ANY WAY SO I CANT REALLY PUT THING HERE NOW. HOPE I HAND THE MINE TO DO THAT VERY SOON BECAUSE AS SPECK AM PISSED OFF.

BYE FOR NOW