I think mutual respect is needed in this site. We should all appreciate individual values.

I have this advice for car buyer

If a seller post a car without a VIN, please be very careful to do business with them. Why do they have the whole time in the world taking the car pics, uploading them and eventually post them but find it diffcult to post the VIN as well.

A competent and reasonable seller should be able to give the details about the car they are selling, that does not discourage buyer rather will get the seller more business because he/she is doing business with sincerity, trustworthiness and integrity. Let buyer know not only the advantage of the car they are buying also the risks incured.

Let there be business sanity

Be your customer's keeper

It is not how smart to cheat and decieve buyers that will make you prosperous but God's favor.

If you cheat a customer to make say 10,000K, somewhere sometimes you also will lose 100, 000K- Law of Business Retribution

Let honesty be the watchword

true word !

Thank you Big father! I think if we can put this into action, we all will see the new Nigeria were're dreaming of and anticipating

@ Big father
I second you.
No VIN number, no reply and no business!

i third oh

i support! car sellers please take note.

@braunyes,

pls reedit, yur post , make it bold and italics, i know what u do

thanks for been on d look see

God Bless all of una!! This is what we need in this forum. Quacks and dishonest car dealers must leave Nairaland and go elsewhere to cheat people. No VIN Number and No CARFAX report means RUN AWAY from that car dealer. Infact, not only that, CARFAX REPORT MUST MATCH VIN NUMBER otherwise, no business!

I think dealers should provide VIN only and not the Carfax report. Vins checks from guys like Sly, brauneyes and the likes will then serve as independent verification on the car. This is to avoid manipulations

Buyers should be weary of sellers that refuses to post VIN. Period. Also is there a way VIN numbers can be checked in Nigeria? I know all cars imported into
Nigeria(I mean those that cleared Customs) their VIN are with Nigeria Customs. If some company can collect these VIN/have a data base for Nigerians to be able to check the history of cars imported into Nigeria. This will go a long way in sanitizing this business. I know a lot of buyers will be willing to pay a nominal fee for this kind of service. Any ideas?

Personally, if I was selling a car, I would NOT post the VIN on an internet forum.

Here in the UK, sellers NEVER post VIN numbers on live forums, for obvious security reasons.
If a buyer is interested, the seller then makes the VIN and other necessary data available, so they can carry out an HPI check.
Interested parties contact the seller, express an interest, and that's the way it should be.
Only a lazy buyer want's the VIN posted online, so they don't have to take the extra time making the call.

The police and other bodies strongly discourage the posting of VIN numbers online.
Some dealers and private sellers used to do that years ago, and there was a spate of cloned cars floating around.

VIN data is almost as sensitive as your bank details, drivers licence or passport numbers.

A genuine buyer would understand that a VIN number is sensitive, and this would not deter them from making enquiries themselves.

@siena,

i would NEVER ever wanna, argue with u, but pls help on dis. u say vin numbers are hidden for security reasons in d uk.

but most us auction sites on d internet have their vin numbers made public, autotrader, craigs, jaywolfe, etc. why do they?

secondly if vin is so secure, why did d car makers make it open for all to see from d windsheild, should it not be hidden, pls

explain to me, so i understand,very well, thank u sir.

This is getting interesting. Oya, Siena let's hear from you.

Siena:

Personally, if I was selling a car, I would NOT post the VIN on an internet forum.

Here in the UK, sellers NEVER post VIN numbers on live forums, for obvious security reasons.
If a buyer is interested, the seller then makes the VIN and other necessary data available, so they can carry out an HPI check.
Interested parties contact the seller, express an interest, and that's the way it should be.
Only a lazy buyer want's the VIN posted online, so they don't have to take the extra time making the call.

The police and other bodies strongly discourage the posting of VIN numbers online.
Some dealers and private sellers used to do that years ago, and there was a spate of cloned cars floating around.

VIN data is almost as sensitive as your bank details, drivers licence or passport numbers.

A genuine buyer would understand that a VIN number is sensitive, and this would not deter them from making enquiries themselves.

Maybe Now that Sienna ( The Moderator ) and our GRAND FATHER on here has Explained,

It would make more Sense.

If You love a car so much, request for the VIN.

@ nkc.

How many car VIN Numbers can you store in your memory by mere Sighting ?

Are the Details on your Credit Cards, bank cards, Sensitive ? if it is why should anyone other than the owner be able to see it ?

And when we mean displays on VIN, we mean displays of VIN on the Internet,

Auction sites & examples you stated are bound by Rights of Use, Terms & Conditions and Maybe their legal Dept would Explain better.

@ ALL
We have all these fuss here 'because this is a free forum.

Go to Proper Nigerian Car Websites like www.1000carsales.com, www.motorlinksng.com, www.caradore.com, www.autotraderng.com etc to Question Car Sellers/Dealers there why VIN are not posted across with Adverts.

When a seller refuses to supply VIN after a request, then you can start raising suspicions.

Siena:

Personally, if I was selling a car, I would NOT post the VIN on an internet forum.

Only a lazy buyer want's the VIN posted online, so they don't have to take the extra time making the call.

I Love That,

@inspired,

my bro, i understand u, when u say that how many can i memorize(if u refer to me as a person-i can memorize all, mind u i

memorized ur number in a second from tokunbo ng site even before i called u, so as for me, my memory is rocket, i own a

thuraya,imagine d pain in memorizing dat stupid number) but to d main question, what we r trying to say, is that if a

crime

wants to be commited on a vin number , i can go to a car i like on d street and copy d vin, and go ahead with my plan, so

my point is that vin number for as long as it is visible from d windshield, should not be an important issue, if someone

requests a vin from a dealer/seller, he or she should provide before d deal goes down, so d person can cross

check,if

there are records on it, if not , as i said earlier, go with a mechanic , if u like what u see, den buy and go home.

Hope u understand my point?

nkc I understand you, I have always understood you.

your last paragraph is the point i have been emphasizing before Sienna came to my rescue.

nkc:

if someone

requests a vin from a dealer/seller, he or she should provide before d deal goes down, so d person can cross

check,if

there are records on it, if not , as i said earlier, go with a mechanic , if u like what u see, den buy and go home.

Hope u understand my point?

Thats Common Sense, and thats exclusively for Nigerians

@inspired,

Thanks.

The Thing is most naija people dont know that rule, although they preach they r sharp ,someone can come to this our site and just buy because he was referred to here, thats what some people are angry, saying that at least if someone as a dealer/seller has an idea of any problem on a car he should inform d buyer of it, if the buyer understands you, both of u can seal a deal, knowing fully well that there's mutual understanding.
broda, i know its not easy, even me sef fit no do am, but u agree if its done, it goes along way to show sign off superior dealership,u knw we nigerians are quick to judge when we are sidelined, but if we understand from onset, theres usually no shaking. I OWN A 2002 NISSAN INFINITI QX4, IF I TELL U IT HAS BEEN IN AN ACCIDENT U WONT EVER BELIEVE, EVEN ME WITH MY TURBO EYES COULD NOT SEE ANYTHING, AN UNCLE GOT IT FROM D STATES, BUT WHEN I CHECK CARFAX, THEY SAID IT HAD AN ACCIDENT, BUT ITS OKAY COS ITS FIXED, AT A POINT I SAID CARFAX THEY LIE, UNTIL I DECIDED TO SIT FOR ONE WHOLE DAY AROUND D ACCIDENT AREA AND AFTER,MICROSCOPIC VIEWING,I NOTICED SOME TOUCH UP, BUT TO BE FRANK IF NOT, CARFAX SAID SO, TILL DATE,NO ONE WILL EVER KNOW.like viperman will say if engine and gearbox is alright, all well and good

Nairalanders,

Wonders will never cease!! Now people are comparing VIN number with Credit Card, haba!! Please note that there are a lot of intelligent people reading the postings on this forum. Inspired_m refered to websites like www.1000carsales.com, www.motorlinksng.com, www.caradore.com, www.autotraderng.com etc , maybe he should go and advertise his cars there. A lot of the cars on those websites are junk, please don't get me wrong, there are some good ones there o, but there are a whole lot of junk cars mixed in there as well.

As far as I can see, if we want to last long in nairaland, we should not categorize oursleves with www.1000carsales.com, www.motorlinksng.com, www.caradore.com, www.autotraderng.com etc . This should be a forum of high standards where buyers can come without any fear of being duped. What's the point of going to a forum where you will have to pray and fast for 7 days before you buy car so that you don't end up with junk? IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE, POST YOUR VIN NUMBER AND/OR CARFAX REPORT jare! Otherwise, go to those other forum and advertise there. Nairaland shall not be hijacked by quacks by God's grace.

Attention Siena!

l strongly disagree with you. I live and doing business in UK, I frequently travel to Eastern Europe, Japan and Korean and have business associate in US and Germany.

When it gets to the issue of auctioning cars, the VIN, CARFAX are posted. The first authentic report the seller will give you is the risks and details of the car report. You will be told outrightly what's gone wrong with the car and why they are auctioning it. Then you will be later told what yo can do to correct the defects should you're willing to go on with the deal.

All our (Nigerian) car dealers are supplied and furnished with enough information about cars they are buying and shipping. Most of these car dealers are clearly aware of all the cars they are shipping to Nigeria, as a matter of fact, that is one of the major reasons they are buying at a very cheap price.

If VIN should remain secret or like credit card, why then is possible for someone to have access to check it even when you are not the buyer and when the car is not in your possession?

All we're saying is that a dealer without hidden agenda should be able to provide freely without any fear VIN. The car manufacturer make it public why are you car dealers concealing it?

My advice is that a buyer of car without VIN posted on this forum but privately sent to him/her should make the seller swear to affidavit at a copetent court of law that the VIN/CARFAX is not manipulated and should the VIN/CARFAX be later cross examined or checked and found manipulated, the seller should be prosecuted and pay fine! Thank you forumnites that are striving to make Nigeria great!

Renny, I agree with you - to an extent.

Yes, VIN's are visible in the corner of the windscreen (have been since 1996).

But, in terms of displaying on the web, which is worldwide, not always a good idea.

Yes, a potential buyer can request the VIN of a car he / she is interested in, and get it. Fact.
The risk of "ringing" is small.
If a potential buyer requests a VIN, and the seller's not forthcoming with the information, then that's different.
Alarm bells may start ringing.

I have sold cars in the UK, but NEVER posted the VIN in the advert.
Some buyers have requested the VIN details, which I have given willingly. That's the way it works.
The VIN is a vehicle's "birth certificate", so to speak, and should be given out only on demand, if you feel the requester is genuine.
Besides, including the VIN in an advert, does NOT guarantee the car is straight.
The final decision is when the potential buyer come to view the car.
If it's cloned, or the VIN belongs to a car with clean title, issues may NOT be immediately apparent.

I could view an advert with the VIN included, go to view the car, find out the owner's details.
Then leave, and advertise a similar, stolen / bent car, but include the VIN of the car I'd viewed, which may have probably have not been sold.
A potential buyer enquires, sees the VIN, does a check, and of course, the car comes up straight.
The point I'm also making is, the VIN at this point, is NO guarantee the car's legit! It could be sold, and it could be days / weeks before the buyer realises the car he / she's bought, is not what it seems! It could be a stolen / written-off car with the VIN from a straight car.

A VIN that's on the net is a larger risk. Cars being transported on trucks in the UK, mostly have the licence plates concealed, to reduce the risk of cloning, (a global issue).

There have been many a car that have had their identities copied, and cars HAVE been exported with the VIN of legitimate cars, while the owner's have been blissfully unaware of what was taking place.

Bottom line is - do your homework, know your onions, and you're not likely to get burnt.
I've been buying cars for over 15 years, alongside my regular performance conversions, and have never been caught out.
It also pays if you know the little, sometimes "invisible" changes that occur on various models during production, that become glaringly obvious when spotted on the wrong year of car.

@sienna

i rest my case, your last paragraph coupled with a true or fake vin report will help us in nigeria, hope u agree?

Siena,

I have lived in the UK in the past for several years so I am very informed about that market. I am sorry, I do not see any logic in what you are saying. But let us start from the US. - What we are saying on this forum is that at least 70% of cars advertised here are from the US.  and over there (in the US.), it is ILLEGAL i.e. it is a CRIMINAL offence to try and sell any vehicle without displaying the VIN number PUBLICLY. That is RULE NO. 1 for car dealers in America! If dealer gives you VIN number and you match it with the CARFAX report (I'm still talking about cars from the US.) won't you the buyer see the VIN number physically on the vehicle before paying for it? How come thieves have not cloned all the VIN numbers on the internet? Abeg, give us some intelligent logic here. Are you saying the Americans are dumb for making public display of VIN numbers mandatory? Nice try but your argument doesn't fly.

Zion, I don't understand the "nice try" in your above post.

I don't need to try anything, it's not like I'm selling cars.
Have you ever seen me advertising cars for sale here?
What do I stand to gain from making up stories?

Laws of trade vary from country to country.
The fact it's the law in the US to display VIN's does not mean they're daft. It's just following protocol.
Nairaland is NOT an auction website.
Selling cars privately in the UK, or through certified dealerships, does not require VIN's to be posted.

VIN's are only posted in selected auction houses in the UK, where most of the buyers / sellers are traders.

Siena,

I mean "nice try" for your logic that posting VIN number publicly has some kind of security implications for the seller. By the way, posting VIN number publicly in the US is not "just following protocol" it is to maintain the integrity of the business.

ziontrain:

Siena,

I mean "nice try" for your logic that posting VIN number publicly has some kind of security implications for the seller. By the way, posting VIN number publicly in the US is not "just following protocol" it is to maintain the integrity of the business.

I must have misunderstood you, then.
You said it was a criminal offence not to display the VIN, in a sales ad.

Either way, I have no idea what's involved, in terms of trade law, in buying / selling automobiles in the US.