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The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins - Religion - Nairaland

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The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Rossikk(m): 7:16pm On Jun 20, 2013
Another Revolutionary sermon by Christian pastor turned Africanist Philosopher/Preacher, Pastor Ray Hagins.


...................................................
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqFtpV4i4zs

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Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Rossikk(m): 7:16pm On Jun 22, 2013
bump
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Rossikk(m): 1:28pm On Jun 23, 2013
Idiots...dem don run
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by honeychild(f): 3:57pm On Jun 23, 2013
I watched the video and I took up the pastor's challenge to cross check some of the assertions he made. I am not an historian or PH.d holder, so I decided to start with something I was a little familiar with: Arius.

Being an anti-trinitarian, I am somewhat familiar with Arius and what he stood for. Permit me to say that the good Dr. Pastor Ray Higgins was waaaaaaay off the mark in his understanding of Arius (the 'African' brutha from Libya).

At OP: please do some personal research and see if ur Dr Pastor was feeding you a load of B.S or not.
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Rossikk(m): 5:30pm On Jun 24, 2013
honeychild: I watched the video and I took up the pastor's challenge to cross check some of the assertions he made. I am not an historian or PH.d holder, so I decided to start with something I was a little familiar with: Arius.

Being an anti-trinitarian, I am somewhat familiar with Arius and what he stood for. Permit me to say that the good Dr. Pastor Ray Higgins was waaaaaaay off the mark in his understanding of Arius (the 'African' brutha from Libya).

At OP: please do some personal research and see if ur Dr Pastor was feeding you a load of B.S or not.

I did, and I saw no discrepancy at all.

Did you read up on Serapis?
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by honeychild(f): 6:32pm On Jun 24, 2013
I have started to read up on the Ptolemys and their Serapis.....will get back to you once I sufficiently understand it.

But as for Arius, the Dr. makes it sound as if Arius was debating the EXISTENCE of Christ. That is not true.
Arius point was this: [/b] the son of God came after God the father in time and substance and is therefore inferior to his father. He is not co-equal or co-eternal with him[b]

The debate at the Nicene council between Arius and his opposers was not about the EXISTENCE of Christ, but about whether Christ was equal to God or not.

I think the Dr. was being intellectually dishonest to try to make it something else. I also think he was relying on the fact that most of us are too lazy to do our own research and tend to swallow everything we are told, especially if the story teller has an impressive array of letters behind his name.

Will talk more on Serapis and the Ptolemy dynasty when I understand it

1 Like

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by okeyxyz(m): 6:59pm On Jun 24, 2013
Mehn!!! Dis Jesus don suffer oo. With the kain effort wey everybody dey put for work to prove say im no exist at all.. chaii!!! grin grin

3 Likes

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Emusan(m): 7:19pm On Jun 24, 2013
okeyxyz: Mehn!!! Dis Jesus don suffer oo. With the kain effort wey everybody dey put for work to prove say im no exist at all.. chaii!!! grin grin

I'm telling you.

1 Like

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by okeyxyz(m): 8:29pm On Jun 24, 2013
Rossikk: Idiots...dem don run

And how about you smart a.s.s!!!? So you do believe absolutely, completely, everything this guy says?? That Jesus never existed? @20:59-31:35 of the video.

The guy clearly makes good sense by exposing the origins of the catholic church but he goes on to spoil it with his own personal bias by absolutely declaring that Jesus never existed. And you believe this because?? According to him: there are no images or coins of Jesus?? You really don't see the flaw in this argument? Just think about it, then let us know why you think Jesus never existed. Either you are going strictly by his arguments or you want to make additional cases to support him. Let's see how well you (claim to) really think..

1 Like

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by plaetton: 9:02pm On Jun 24, 2013
Hagins or not, the fact remains that there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of Jesus.
The gospels , written by unknowns, do not meet the minimum criteria to be taken seriously as historical facts.

It is actually quite suspicious that Jesus, son of the creator of the universe, somehow forgot yo put his teachings in writing for posterity.

1 Like 1 Share

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by okeyxyz(m): 9:56pm On Jun 24, 2013
^^^
Yeah yeah, no evidence & blahblahblah

Are you not the same @plaeton who's tried so many times to hijack the same "non-existent" jesus and claiming he's a humanist rather than a christian? Why do use a fictional character to validate your humanist religion? You need to sort your confusion out first before being considered capable to participate in this debate. You just cannot hold two explicitly opposite positions of your own beliefs. It's called multiple personality disorder. SMH
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Rossikk(m): 9:58pm On Jun 24, 2013
okeyxyz:

And how about you smart a.s.s!!!? So you do believe absolutely, completely, everything this guy says?? That Jesus never existed? @20:59-31:35 of the video.

The guy clearly makes good sense by exposing the origins of the catholic church but he goes on to spoil it with his own personal bias by absolutely declaring that Jesus never existed. And you believe this because?? According to him: there are no images or coins of Jesus?? You really don't see the flaw in this argument? Just think about it, then let us know why you think Jesus never existed. Either you are going strictly by his arguments or you want to make additional cases to support him. Let's see how well you (claim to) really think..

You expect me to prove a negative? That would be quite a task. I'm sorry but the onus is on you to prove that Jesus existed.

And no... ''the bible says so'' is not proof.

Do you know there was no writer contemporaneous to the Jesus era who wrote a single word about Jesus? The Jewish/Greek hellenistic period was an era in which there were hundreds of writers who wrote even the most mundane records... yet, not one word about a 'Jesus'. All accounts of a 'Jesus' were written several decades after his 'ascension', and were based on HEARSAY, not eyewitness evidence.

Secondly, the Gospels are written by anonymous persons, at least 100 years AFTER the alleged events occurred. The scrolls were 'found' somewhere, and names like 'Matthew', 'Mark', 'Luke' etc attached to them, to give the impression, still held by most christians, that those characters actually wrote the respective volumes attributed to them.

But there's no evidence for the existence of a 'Luke', or a 'Mark', or 'John' who wrote any gospels. They are fictional characters. MIND YOU THESE THINGS I'M STATING ARE NOT CONTESTED BY THE CHURCH OR BY THEOLOGIANS OR RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS. They just don't go about publicizing these facts to the faithful.


Religious fusion in Ancient Egypt

http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/syncretism.html

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Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Emusan(m): 10:14pm On Jun 24, 2013
plaetton: Hagins or not, the fact remains that there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of Jesus.
The gospels , written by unknowns, do not meet the minimum criteria to be taken seriously as historical facts.

It is actually quite suspicious that Jesus, son of the creator of the universe, somehow forgot yo put his teachings in writing for posterity.

If there is no evidence for Jesus existence kindly change your date of Birth to **/**/100,198*.

The funny part of it even Dawnians date of Birth was taken after the Death of Christ (AD) even though he believe man has been in existence about thousands of years, have you asked youself why everything is taken from Christ date? i.e BC or AD!

Keep deluding yourself!

I will like unbelievers to change their date of Birth/calender to over hundred thousand years before I will join you people.

Don't forget this year you are in is 2013AD.
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by okeyxyz(m): 10:31pm On Jun 24, 2013
Rossikk:
You expect me to prove a negative? That would be quite a task. I'm sorry but the onus is on you to prove that Jesus existed.

And no... ''the bible says so'' is not proof.

There you go again with this "You can't prove a negative" mantra that drone atheists repeat when they have nothing insightful to say but would rather regurgitate the words of richard dawkins, christopher Hitchins, Sam Harris, etc. And I'd not asked you to prove anything, just for you to make arguments as to why you think Jesus never existed and what logic do you base this arguments on. Perhaps you mistake me for somebody else you have an unfinished debate with, thereby feeling the need to throw the "You can't prove a negative" line at me.



Do you know there was no writer contemporaneous to the Jesus era who wrote a single word about Jesus? The Jewish/Greek hellenistic period was an era in which there were hundreds of writers who wrote even the most mundane records... yet, not one word about a 'Jesus'. All accounts of a 'Jesus' were written several decades after his 'ascension', and were based on HEARSAY, not eyewitness evidence.

Ok. So who are these contemporary writers of Jesus's era, and who else of comparable stature and influence as Jesus did they write about while excluding Jesus? and by which you conclude that Jesus never existed? What other ordinary, low class Jewish citizen or teacher, without social, political or religious office, just like Jesus, did they write about? That way we can reason logically that if such person(s) in Israel could be mentioned by historians, then why not jesus.



Secondly, the Gospels are written by anonymous persons, at least 100 years AFTER the alleged events occurred. The scrolls were 'found' somewhere, and names like 'Matthew', 'Mark', 'Luke' etc attached to them. MIND YOU THESE THINGS I'M STATING ARE NOT CONTESTED BY THE CHURCH OR BY THEOLOGIANS OR RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS.

SO where is YOUR proof that Jesus ever existed?

OK, Just to make you happy.., F@ck!! the gospels of mathew, mark, luke and John. How about the letters of Paul, peter, John? These were contemporaries of Jesus, Who either interracted with him when he was alive or heard of him and referred to him in their writings? Are you gonna tell me now that Peter, John and Paul never existed too? Do you mean to tell us that these guys threw away their lives, became outcast of Judaism, were subject to Roman persecution and ultimately martyred for a fictional character?

3 Likes

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Emusan(m): 10:37pm On Jun 24, 2013
Rossikk:

You expect me to prove a negative? That would be quite a task. I'm sorry but the onus is on you to prove that Jesus existed.

And no... ''the bible says so'' is not proof.

Do you know there was no writer contemporaneous to the Jesus era who wrote a single word about Jesus? The Jewish/Greek hellenistic period was an era in which there were hundreds of writers who wrote even the most mundane records... yet, not one word about a 'Jesus'. All accounts of a 'Jesus' were written several decades after his 'ascension', and were based on HEARSAY, not eyewitness evidence.

Secondly, the Gospels are written by anonymous persons, at least 100 years AFTER the alleged events occurred. The scrolls were 'found' somewhere, and names like 'Matthew', 'Mark', 'Luke' etc attached to them, to give the impression, still held by most christians, that those characters actually wrote the respective volumes attributed to them.

But there's no evidence for the existence of a 'Luke', or a 'Mark', or 'John' who wrote any gospels. They are fictional characters. MIND YOU THESE THINGS I'M STATING ARE NOT CONTESTED BY THE CHURCH OR BY THEOLOGIANS OR RELIGIOUS SCHOLARS. They just don't go about publicizing these facts to the faithful.


Please where the idea of our calender came from if Jesus didn't exist?

Again you said no record of Jesus Christ was kept.

If I'm charge to court of committen an offence:
*If I said I'm not guity! It doesn't hold any truth because I won't like see myself in jail.
*If any of my family says I'm not guity, perhaps he/she loves me and try to prevent me of going to jail.
*If my best friend says I'm not guity, well maybe is because he's my best friend and never want me to rot in jail.
*But what if my worst enemy now says I'm not guity (probably he/she will want me to rot in jail). Then I'm not guity.

What does the above mean?
One of the greatest enemy of early christians is Lucian of Samosata : THE PASSING OF PEREGRINUS. If Samosata could clearly state in his book that Jesus was crucified I think no arguement should go beyond that.

Samosata 11. “It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians, by associating with their priests and scribes in Palestine. And—how else could it be?—in a trice he made them all look like children, for he was prophet, cult-leader, head of the synagogue, and everything, all by himself. He interpreted and explained some of their books and even composed many, and they revered him as a god, made use of him as a lawgiver, and set him down as a protector, next after that other, to be sure, whom 11 they still worship, the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world.

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/lucian/peregrinus.htm

He even recognises the remaining 11 desciples of Jesus Christ. Then shall we say Jesus didn't exist?

It's up to you to judge!
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by plaetton: 10:49pm On Jun 24, 2013
Emusan:

If there is no evidence for Jesus existence kindly change your date of Birth to **/**/100,198*.

The funny part of it even Dawnians date of Birth was taken after the Death of Christ (AD) even though he believe man has been in existence about thousands of years, have you asked youself why everything is taken from Christ date? i.e BC or AD

Keep deluding yourself!

I will like unbelievers to their date of Birth/calender to over hundred thousand years before I will join you people.
.
Don't forget this year you are in is 2013AD.
So Jesus Jesus exists because the calendar says?
Don't even insult kindergarten children with that silly logic

1 Like

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Emusan(m): 11:01pm On Jun 24, 2013
plaetton:
So Jesus Jesus exists because the calendar says?
Don't even insult kindergarten children with that silly logic

Not only because calendar says so, but where the idea of everything dated on earth is either BC or AD came from?

That's the question you should ask yourself.
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by plaetton: 3:36am On Jun 25, 2013
Emusan:

Not only because calendar says so, but where the idea of everything dated on earth is either BC or AD came from?

That's the question you should ask yourself.

So, the idea of AD and BC came from the calendars of christian European emperors, therefore the the story of jesus must be true? That is the best you can come up with? shocked

Honestly, I shake my head in sadness and shame when I read some of your posts.
The shame of trying to debate with a slowpoke is what really gets to me.

2 Likes

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by plaetton: 3:45am On Jun 25, 2013
okeyxyz: ^^^
Yeah yeah, no evidence & blahblahblah

Are you not the same @plaeton who's tried so many times to hijack the same "non-existent" jesus and claiming he's a humanist rather than a christian? Why do use a fictional character to validate your humanist religion? You need to sort your confusion out first before being considered capable to participate in this debate. You just cannot hold two explicitly opposite positions of your own beliefs. It's called multiple personality disorder. SMH

Ha ha ha.
Comprehension problems?
The bible describes a character named Jesus and gives him certain attributes. The Jesus character portrayed in bible, whether real or fictitious, is open to study, critical analysis and debate, much in the same way that the shakespearian characters, although fictitious, are also studied and critically analysed by students of English literature.
Same rule applies to Homer Simpson.

So, whether Jesus or Homer Simpson, I am competent to study and critically analyse their characters as they are portrayed.

Comprehend?
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by okeyxyz(m): 4:38am On Jun 25, 2013
plaetton:

Ha ha ha.
Comprehension problems?
The bible describes a character named Jesus and gives him certain attributes. The Jesus character portrayed in bible, whether real or fictitious, is open to study, critical analysis and debate, much in the same way that the shakespearian characters, although fictitious, are also studied and critically analysed by students of English literature.
Same rule applies to Homer Simpson.

So, whether Jesus or Homer Simpson, I am competent to study and critically analyse their characters as they are portrayed.

Comprehend?

^^^ chai!! see @plaetton with intellectual epilepsy grin grin grin

Let me put you right. You see, I enjoy reading and analyzing batman, x-men and superman comics and I place them in the proper context of fiction. I certainly don't aspire to be a batman or superman, why?? because they are fiction and impossible situations. So for me it's just an fantasy indulgence. But you!! You go about urging and fighting to establish jesus as a humanist, you urge people to emulate Jesus Christ, his values and lifestyle, You use him as the template to conform to in your walk of humanism. This same fictional jesus?? Chai!! problem dey oo. Surely you have demonstrated that you don't know the difference between reality and fiction. Again, a case of MPD grin grin grin
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Nobody: 5:37am On Jun 25, 2013
plaetton:

So, the idea of AD and BC came from the calendars of christian European emperors, therefore the the story of jesus must be true? That is the best you can come up with? shocked

Honestly, I shake my head in sadness and shame when I read some of your posts.
The shame of trying to debate with a slowpoke is what really gets to me.

And there seems to be a whole lot of them on this board these days.
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Emusan(m): 7:07am On Jun 25, 2013
plaetton:

So, the idea of AD and BC came from the calendars of christian European emperors, therefore the the story of jesus must be true? That is the best you can come up with? shocked

Honestly, I shake my head in sadness and shame when I read some of your posts.
The shame of trying to debate with a slowpoke is what really gets to me.

@bold- I can see there's tiny membrane that covered your eyes which couldn't allow you to see my quote with Rossik. What can you say about that?

You call it Christian European Calendar but remember is universal.

Why Pleatton choose to allow his date of birth to come from Christian calendar?
Why Dawnians didn't create his own calendar despite that he believed human has been in existence over hundred thousand years ago?
Why Jesus date was taken and universal despite there're many prominent people and religion before His birth? There are many chances for the birth of Christ to be cancelled as a reference to another people or event but isn't possible because His prophesy must be fulfilled.
It was after the Birth and Death of Jesus that wisdom and knowledge begin to increased.
Isaiah 33:6 "And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times,......."

I know you can't see these as a prove because the truth is far away fron you.

1 Like

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by honeychild(f): 7:10am On Jun 25, 2013
oh no!! where did you all come from? I was looking forward to a nice, polite discussion with my new friend Rossikk and now all you insult slinging adversaries have come to muddle up the whole thread! sad
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by okeyxyz(m): 10:30am On Jun 25, 2013
Why do I have a funny feeling that @Frosbel and @Obadiah will love this Ray Hagins guy?? grin grin
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by honeychild(f): 12:28pm On Jun 25, 2013
@Rossikk:
Anyway in the hopes that this thread can still be salvaged grin grin (insult spewing antagonists on both sides please keep off!!) Here is what I have found out about Serapis:

1. Serapis was an amalgamation of various Graeco-Roman and Egyptian dieties, which eventually became the major cult between the 2nd century bc and the 3rd century c.e.

2. The image of Serapis has an unmistakable similarity to the pictures of Jesus that abound in the 'christian' world. To be honest, I do not need anyone to tell me that the picture of Jesus we have today is based on that of Serapis.

3. There is a letter dated to the 2nd century c.e. in which emperor Hadrian is purported to have said that the worshippers of Serapis in Egypt call themselves christians.

4. Therefore based on the above (especially 2 and 3) many have concluded that the entire 'Jesus' entity was fabricated.

How about an alternative view? (ironically, I got a glimpse of this explanation from the web site you directed us to in one of your posts: www.jesusneverexisted.com/syncretism.html:

'In their first two centuries, the followers of Christ had no particular image of their god. Emerging as they did from Judaism, they disdained 'idol worship'. They were even accused of being atheists. But once the break with Judaism was complete the christ worshippers rapidly made up the deficiency by adapting for Christian use, pagan images, rituals, sacred sites, and symbols.'

i.e. for the first two hundred years of Christian history, there were no images of Christ, because the early christians obeyed the Biblical commands to 'flee from idolatory'. By the time they decided that they wanted to be like the rest of the religions around them they decided to 'borrow' images, rituals and symbols from the pagan religions around them.
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by honeychild(f): 1:05pm On Jun 25, 2013
Ray Higgins asks in the video: Why weren't you taught this? You grew up in the church?

My answer is: Perhaps you grew up in the wrong church! grin

As one of Jehovah's Witnesses, the basic information that the Christianity practiced by the Apostles and disciples of Christ was in later years tainted by pagan influences is most certainly not new information to me! Witnesses have been trying to tell other Christians this for decades. A lot of the beliefs found in the orthodox churches have no basis in the bible. They are pagan imports.

The question is, why did this happen?

"Then by watering down the truth they made it more pleasing, appealing and unobjectionable to the pagan mind, to attract more people and thereby attain greater political power. As a consequence, Christendom grew more and more Babylonized and degraded as history went along."
-The Watchtower, May 1st 1966 p. 279 Is Christendom Truly Christ’s Domain?

I refer you once again to the quote from the 'Jesus never existed' web page:

"In their first two centuries, the followers of Christ had no particular image of their god. Emerging as they did from Judaism, they disdained 'idol worship'. They were even accused of being atheists. But once the break with Judaism was complete the christ worshippers rapidly made up the deficiency by adapting for Christian use, pagan images, rituals, sacred sites, and symbols."

In the words of a Catholic cardinal:

"feeling ..... that they must invent what they needed, if they did not use what they found; ....... the rulers of the Church from early times were prepared, should the occasion arise, to adopt, to imitate, or sanction the existing rites and customs of the populace, as well as the philosophy of the educated class."
- Catholic Cardinal John Henry Newman - Essay on the Development of Christian Doctrine,” published in 1878.

In other words, by the time of Constantine, the Christians were tired of being persecuted and hated everywhere they went because they were different. They were ready to become like the rest of the world. When Constantine offered them a lifeline, most of them with a few exceptions, jumped at it. They accepted pagan doctrines like the Trinity, and an immortal soul, adopted the use of images like the cross, the mother and child goddesses, (and of course Serapis! grin). They adopted pagan practices like December 25th as the birthday of their Savior and Easter (the goddess Ishtar or Eostre) etc.

And now it has come back to haunt us - those who would malign and discredit Christianity have ample 'evidence' with which to browbeat us.

3 Likes

Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by plaetton: 1:15pm On Jun 25, 2013
Emusan:

@bold- I can see there's tiny membrane that covered your eyes which couldn't allow you to see my quote with Rossik. What can you say about that?

You call it Christian European Calendar but remember is universal.

Why Pleatton choose to allow his date of birth to come from Christian calendar?
Why Dawnians didn't create his own calendar despite that he believed human has been in existence over hundred thousand years ago?
Why Jesus date was taken and universal despite there're many prominent people and religion before His birth? There are many chances for the birth of Christ to be cancelled as a reference to another people or event but isn't possible because His prophesy must be fulfilled.
It was after the Birth and Death of Jesus that wisdom and knowledge begin to increased.
Isaiah 33:6 "And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times,......."

I know you can't see these as a prove because the truth is far away from you.

Just to educate you, the terms BC and AD are no longer used for the very same reasons I have mentioned here: There is no historical validity to the existence of Jesus.
For several decades now, these terms have been discarded from historical and academic literature .
They have been replaced by BCE( Before The Common Era) and CE(Common Era).
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by honeychild(f): 1:32pm On Jun 25, 2013
plaetton: Hagins or not, the fact remains that there is absolutely no evidence for the existence of Jesus.
The gospels , written by unknowns, do not meet the minimum criteria to be taken seriously as historical facts.

It is actually quite suspicious that Jesus, son of the creator of the universe, somehow forgot yo put his teachings in writing for posterity.

How much evidence do you have for the existence of Socrates?
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Emusan(m): 1:36pm On Jun 25, 2013
plaetton:

Just to educate you, the terms BC and AD are no longer used for the very same reasons I have mentioned here: There is no historical validity to the existence of Jesus.
For several decades now, these terms have been discarded from historical and academic literature .
They have been replaced by BCE( Before The Common Era) and CE(Common Era).


Era of what oooo plaetton?

Era-"A system of chronology dating from a particular noteworthy event" please which event is noteworthy in 2000years ago?

If the BC and AD is being discarded, can they discard the year derived in it. Remember 2013AD is at the middle very soon 2014AD will come.

Plato, Julius Ceaser, Homer are prominent people that did great thing and they live before Christ yet their event or time was not taken, why Jesus?

Is like you're dudging this post let me repost it again.

If I charge to court of committen an offence:

*If I said I'm not guity! It doesn't hold any truth because I won't like see myself in jail.

*If any of my family says I'm not guity, perhaps he/she loves me and try to prevent me of going to jail.

*If my best friend says I'm not guity, well maybe is because he's my best friend and never want me to rot in jail.

*But what if my worst enemy now says I'm not guity (probably he/she will want me to rot in jail). Then I'm not guity.


What does the above mean?

One of the greatest enemy of early christians is Lucian of Samosata : THE PASSING OF PEREGRINUS. If Samosata could clearly state in his book that Jesus was crucified I think no arguement should go beyond that.
Samosata 11. “It was then that he learned the wondrous lore of the Christians, by associating with their priests and scribes in Palestine. And—how else could it be?—in a trice he made them all look like children, for he was prophet, cult-leader, head of the synagogue, and everything, all by himself. He interpreted and explained some of their books and even composed many, and they revered him as a god, made use of him as a lawgiver, and set him down as a protector, next after that other, to be sure, whom 11 they still worship, the man who was crucified in Palestine because he introduced this new cult into the world.

http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/lucian /peregrinus.htm

He even recognises the remaining 11 desciples of Jesus Christ. Then shall we say Jesus didn't exist?

In his book he mocked Christianity but it's a great evidence to prove that Jesus actually exist.

I will like you to disprove this, the website is there too.
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by honeychild(f): 2:04pm On Jun 25, 2013
@ Plaetton:
and how about the references to Jesus by Tacitus and Josephus?

"Consequently, to get rid of the report,[that the fire in Rome came was actually a direct order from Nero himself] Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilatus."
- Tacitus, the Annals 15:44

"AND now Caesar, upon hearing the death of Festus, sent Albinus into Judea, as procurator. But the king deprived Joseph of the high priesthood, and bestowed the succession to that dignity on the son of Ananus, who was also himself called Ananus. Now the report goes that this eldest Ananus proved a most fortunate man; for he had five sons who had all performed the office of a high priest to God, and who had himself enjoyed that dignity a long time formerly, which had never happened to any other of our high priests. But this younger Ananus, who, as we have told you already, took the high priesthood, was a bold man in his temper, and very insolent; he was also of the sect of the Sadducees,[23] who are very rigid in judging offenders, above all the rest of the Jews, as we have already observed; when, therefore, Ananus was of this disposition, he thought he had now a proper opportunity [to exercise his authority]. Festus was now dead, and Albinus was but upon the road; so he assembled the sanhedrim of judges, and brought before them the brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James, and some others, [or, some of his companions]; and when he had formed an accusation against them as breakers of the law, he delivered them to be stoned-

Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews (Book 20 chapter 9)

Joseph lived from 37 C.E to c 100 C.E and Tacitus from 56 C.E to 117 C.E.
Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Nobody: 2:56pm On Jun 25, 2013
okeyxyz: Mehn!!! Dis Jesus don suffer oo. With the kain effort wey everybody dey put for work to prove say im no exist at all.. chaii!!! grin grin

If its not the questioning of God's existence today, tommorrow is the existence of Christ Jesus, then later the existence of the supernatural... gush trully dat na wa oh... make una dei come bring on... grin grin grin

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Re: The Council That Created Jesus - By Former Pastor, Ray Hagins by Nobody: 2:58pm On Jun 25, 2013
Emusan:

@bold- I can see there's tiny membrane that covered your eyes which couldn't allow you to see my quote with Rossik. What can you say about that?

You call it Christian European Calendar but remember is universal.

Why Pleatton choose to allow his date of birth to come from Christian calendar?
Why Dawnians didn't create his own calendar despite that he believed human has been in existence over hundred thousand years ago?
Why Jesus date was taken and universal despite there're many prominent people and religion before His birth? There are many chances for the birth of Christ to be cancelled as a reference to another people or event but isn't possible because His prophesy must be fulfilled.
It was after the Birth and Death of Jesus that wisdom and knowledge begin to increased.
Isaiah 33:6 "And wisdom and knowledge shall be the stability of thy times,......."

[/b]
I know you can't see these as a prove because the truth is far away fron you.

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