Alright some of ya playas don't buy the law of retribution. I might open a thread on it, not necessarily in this section or in a couple of days, so that both muslims and christians can contribute their respective quotas. I wouldn't want to derail this thread. Just chew on this for now:
Every wrong deed or crime has a punishment. The law of causation, the law of action and reaction, the law of compensation all tie into Law of Retribution.

Nairatalks: Stop this falsehood. There are female scholars in Islamic history but I doubt it is in the thousands that you claim. The Quran, Hadith and Arab history are there. I challenge you to get past 100 female scholars in Islamic history.

Also, there is no fashion that falls outside the boundaries of islam (except Unclothedness). Islam permits modest dressing. An unbiased person would know that "modest" varies and a sensible approach would be to accept all fashions except those which expose private parts.

It seems you just like claiming falsehood. Unfortunately many muslims are not aware of this fact. We have had over 8,000 popular (to varying degrees) female scholars in our history.

Islam gave women scholarship. Our history is filled with women who have dedicated their lives to teaching Islamic sciences. Have you ever heard of Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr? She was a scholar who was born around the year 522. Her father, Sa`d al Khayr, was also a scholar. He held several classes and was “most particular about [his daughters] attending hadith classes, traveling with them extensively and repeatedly to different teachers. He also taught them himself.” Fatimah studied the works of the great al-Tabarani with the lead narrator of his works in her time. You know who that lead narrator was? The lead narrator of Fatimah’s time was not named Abu someone (the father of someone, indicating that he was a male). The leading scholar of her time was a woman. Her name was Fatimah al-Juzadniyyah and she is the scholar who men and women alike would study under because in that era, she was the greatest and most knowledgeable in some of the classical texts. Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr eventually married and moved to Damascus and eventually to Cairo and she continued to teach. Many scholars travelled specifically to her city so they could study under her.

Fatimah was brought up in a family that valued the education and knowledge of a woman to the point that her father was the one who would ensure she studied with scholars from a young age. Before marriage, she was not told to sit around and be inactive in the community out of fear that some men would find an educated woman unattractive or intimidating and would not want to marry her. She was not going through the motions of studying random things in college because she was stalling until she got married. She sought scholarship and Allah (swt) blessed her with a husband who was of her ranking, who understood her qualifications and drive, and who supported her efforts to continue teaching this religion even after marriage. She left a legacy we unfortunately have most likely never heard about because we rarely hear about the over eight thousand female scholars of hadith who are part of our history.

Why do we never hear about Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr and the thousands of female scholars who were like her? I think that one of the reasons—and it’s just a personal theory—that as a community, we are so focused on grooming our women to be wives and mothers that we lose sight of the fact that this is not even our number one role.

I have a lecture at home that talks of the Female Islamic scholars of the past.

Nairatalks:

Incomplete theology and misinterpretation of the Quran. While we were created to worship God, we have 3 options;
-worship him in sadness
-worship him in happiness
-worship him with a neutral state of mind.

The Quran does not say that we should worship in sadness

Imagine someone losing his whole family to a hurricane on Thursday, do you honestly expect to see him in the mosque on Friday? He has to grieve and take time to calm down. The hurricane deaths have affected his ability to worship, so your distinguishing between secondary and primary purposes of human life is not as black and white as you see it.

The order to worship has no conditions, it is irrespective of your condition. You should read your Quran, more. I am serious. So that you do not make statements like: 'The Quran does not say that we should worship in sadness'

Infact, the Quran promises you difficult times in this life:

We shall certainly test you with fear and hunger, and loss of property, lives, and crops. But [Prophet], give good news to those who are steadfast, 156 those who say, when afflicted with a calamity, ‘We belong to God and to Him we shall return.’ These will be given blessings and mercy from their Lord, and it is they who are rightly guided. (Surah 2:155-157)

Your patience and recognition of your primary purpose is important, here. Nobody said a test is easy but life is full of them. We have to recognise that we can not despair too much over our losses but be thankful for the gifts.

Do people think they will be left alone after saying ‘We believe’ without being put to the test? We tested those who went before them: God will certainly mark out which ones are truthful and which are lying. (Surah 29:2-3)

It is easy to believe when everything is rosy, what happens to that belief when something happens. That is the test of faith. That will determine how deep you faith runs.

Incomplete theology again. Yes, God tests us but is that all? How do we know when we are tested? To describe somebody losing his whole family to a hurricane as a test from God is borderline psychopathic. We dont know if it is a test or just the way God created the earth to function. Who knows if it is all science and the earth needs such a strong water cycle to keep on surviving as a planet.

I am not saying that God cant test us with hard times. The fact is that we dont know when we are tested and how God tests us. It is rather more reasonable to assume that God tests us with our faith directly rather than with machinations of biology, physics and geology of our bodies and our planet----- I am not sure of this but it seems more sensible

You should look at the points as a whole , which one be incomplete theology?? I wrote more than one point.

A person losing his whole family is a test. The world is not the end point. The Quran talks of people facing such desperate times:

Do you suppose that you will enter the Garden without first having suffered like those before you? They were afflicted by misfortune and hardship, and they were so shaken that even [their] messenger and the believers with him cried, ‘When will God’s help arrive?’ Truly, God’s help is near. (Surah 2:213-214)


As muslims, we believe that the laws of biology, physics and geology are completely in the control of Allah. So He determines whether a tsunami hits a place or just misses it. Misfortune itself is a test of faith.

Suffering adds to the experience no doubt.

But if there is a thing like unnecessary suffering then it doesnt bring us closer to God.


Also sins have nothing to do with hurricanes and earthquakes

Well there is suffering in which man inflicts on himself by his own greed.

Sin is one of the reasons for destroyed nations in the past according to the Quran. Ofcourse, it is not the only reason. Sometimes things happen for reasons, we can't fathom. It is beyond our pay grade.

Allah has set the laws of the universe and he determines what happens on it.

Nairatalks:

Some lessons in history should never be forgotten.


However, your comment in bold is interesting. Wouldnt you rather say that they were trying to find Allah through the wrong avenue of politics and power instead of finding Allah in the diverse nature of people and the wonders of the world through science and technology?

No. And they dare not search Allah in diverse nature of people. The people will become too free and too knowledgeable. Free thinking people with knowledge are not easy to control. And to remain relevant in politic, u need the people. Yerima the senator from zanfara is a good example of some one who plays religious politics by focusing the people's minds on on religion

Nairatalks:


Sorry, I do not understand.

What are you trying to say? Please explain.

what I am trying to say is pretty much simple and obvious, there's compulsion in religion.

tbaba1234:

It seems you just like claiming falsehood. Unfortunately many muslims are not aware of this fact. We have had over 8,000 popular (to varying degrees) female scholars in our history.

Islam gave women scholarship. Our history is filled with women who have dedicated their lives to teaching Islamic sciences. Have you ever heard of Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr? She was a scholar who was born around the year 522. Her father, Sa`d al Khayr, was also a scholar. He held several classes and was “most particular about [his daughters] attending hadith classes, traveling with them extensively and repeatedly to different teachers. He also taught them himself.” Fatimah studied the works of the great al-Tabarani with the lead narrator of his works in her time. You know who that lead narrator was? The lead narrator of Fatimah’s time was not named Abu someone (the father of someone, indicating that he was a male). The leading scholar of her time was a woman. Her name was Fatimah al-Juzadniyyah and she is the scholar who men and women alike would study under because in that era, she was the greatest and most knowledgeable in some of the classical texts. Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr eventually married and moved to Damascus and eventually to Cairo and she continued to teach. Many scholars travelled specifically to her city so they could study under her.

Fatimah was brought up in a family that valued the education and knowledge of a woman to the point that her father was the one who would ensure she studied with scholars from a young age. Before marriage, she was not told to sit around and be inactive in the community out of fear that some men would find an educated woman unattractive or intimidating and would not want to marry her. She was not going through the motions of studying random things in college because she was stalling until she got married. She sought scholarship and Allah (swt) blessed her with a husband who was of her ranking, who understood her qualifications and drive, and who supported her efforts to continue teaching this religion even after marriage. She left a legacy we unfortunately have most likely never heard about because we rarely hear about the over eight thousand female scholars of hadith who are part of our history.

Why do we never hear about Fatimah Sa`d al Khayr and the thousands of female scholars who were like her? I think that one of the reasons—and it’s just a personal theory—that as a community, we are so focused on grooming our women to be wives and mothers that we lose sight of the fact that this is not even our number one role.

I have a lecture at home that talks of the Female Islamic scholars of the past.

Just pitiful. Here I was thinking that you were really great in islamic history and knowledge.

All I see in this comment is someone who told an untruth and is scrambling to continue the lie. Your 8,000 femalse muslim scholars is an unverifiable claim. Please, stop the falsehood

tbaba1234:

The order to worship has no conditions, it is irrespective of your condition. You should read your Quran, more. I am serious. So that you do not make statements like: 'The Quran does not say that we should worship in sadness'

Infact, the Quran promises you difficult times in this life:

We shall certainly test you with fear and hunger, and loss of property, lives, and crops. But [Prophet], give good news to those who are steadfast, 156 those who say, when afflicted with a calamity, ‘We belong to God and to Him we shall return.’ These will be given blessings and mercy from their Lord, and it is they who are rightly guided. (Surah 2:155-157)

Your patience and recognition of your primary purpose is important, here. Nobody said a test is easy but life is full of them. We have to recognise that we can not despair too much over our losses but be thankful for the gifts.

Do people think they will be left alone after saying ‘We believe’ without being put to the test? We tested those who went before them: God will certainly mark out which ones are truthful and which are lying. (Surah 29:2-3)

It is easy to believe when everything is rosy, what happens to that belief when something happens. That is the test of faith. That will determine how deep you faith runs.



You should look at the points as a whole , which one be incomplete theology?? I wrote more than one point.

A person losing his whole family is a test. The world is not the end point. The Quran talks of people facing such desperate times:

Do you suppose that you will enter the Garden without first having suffered like those before you? They were afflicted by misfortune and hardship, and they were so shaken that even [their] messenger and the believers with him cried, ‘When will God’s help arrive?’ Truly, God’s help is near. (Surah 2:213-214)


As muslims, we believe that the laws of biology, physics and geology are completely in the control of Allah. So He determines whether a tsunami hits a place or just misses it. Misfortune itself is a test of faith.



Well there is suffering in which man inflicts on himself by his own greed.

Sin is one of the reasons for destroyed nations in the past according to the Quran. Ofcourse, it is not the only reason. Sometimes things happen for reasons, we can't fathom. It is beyond our pay grade.

Allah has set the laws of the universe and he determines what happens on it.

I have truly come to conclude that you are used to preaching to people here without any criticism. Why would you tel me to read the Quran? Are you the only muslim here that has a copy or are you some final authority?

I dont understand the God you are describing in your comment. The God I know is reasonable and doesnt give us more than we can tolerate.

For you to claim that you know when God tests us, it shows your arrogance. I am sorry to say that but I can no longer hold it in. You behave like someone who doesnt like to be questioned. How can you make such a comment that God is testing someone when a hurricane kills his own family? Who died and made you a speaker for God? May Allah have mercy on you for this shirk you are engaging in.

rhymz: what I am trying to say is pretty much simple and obvious, there's compulsion in religion.

No problem then!

Nairatalks:


Just pitiful. Here I was thinking that you were really great in islamic history and knowledge.

All I see in this comment is someone who told an untruth and is scrambling to continue the lie. Your 8,000 femalse muslim scholars is an unverifiable claim. Please, stop the falsehood

What is unverifiable about the claim?? It is better for you to say : I don't know...

Now go to Youtube: Type Women scholars of Islam by Dr. Hesham al-Awadi

Better still watch it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_BzMwnGsE8

It is a four part series.

Also Read: Nadwi, Mohammad Akram, Al Muhadithaat, Interface Publications, (2007)

And please do not make statements from ignorance.

Nairatalks:


I have truly come to conclude that you are used to preaching to people here without any criticism. Why would you tel me to read the Quran? Are you the only muslim here that has a copy or are you some final authority?

I dont understand the God you are describing in your comment. The God I know is reasonable and doesnt give us more than we can tolerate.

For you to claim that you know when God tests us, it shows your arrogance. I am sorry to say that but I can no longer hold it in. You behave like someone who doesnt like to be questioned. How can you make such a comment that God is testing someone when a hurricane kills his own family? Who died and made you a speaker for God? May Allah have mercy on you for this shirk you are engaging in.

If i engage in shirk, then Ameen. But Allah Himself told us that we would be tested with difficult times. I did not claim to know the unseen. I specifically said that some things are above our pay grade.

Sin is one of the reasons for destroyed nations in the past according to the Quran. Ofcourse, it is not the only reason. Sometimes things happen for reasons, we can't fathom. It is beyond our pay grade.

You made statement like the Quran said something without actually knowing what it says.

Maybe, i was not clear. The fact you are given a test means you can handle it because Allah has promised that You might not know that you can but you can.

Maybe, i am a bit harsh. Forgive me for that. If i make an error, correct me, i am not perfect, if i recognize the error, i correct myself.. Do not say i spread falsehood without providing your evidence for it. That is not criticism, you are accusing me of lying.

If you make a good argument with evidence, i will accept it. Do not say, i am spreading falsehood.

Our tests are different, some are tested with luxury and others with difficulty.

Everyone have a blessed ramadan.

Nairatalks:


Just pitiful. Here I was thinking that you were really great in islamic history and knowledge.

All I see in this comment is someone who told an untruth and is scrambling to continue the lie. Your 8,000 femalse muslim scholars is an unverifiable claim. Please, stop the falsehood

. Just passing by and learning

@Tbaba1234 and Nairatalks, what brought the issue of female Islamic scholars? Am not disputing the issue of 8000 female scholars versed in Qur'an and Hadith. We, however were talking about backwardness of the muslim in terms scientific application and technological invention. You guys should give response to why the east is lagging behind when it comes to innovations. Why do they have to import most of their electronics,vehicles or computers? Why dont we have anything in our countries like Nigeria imported from them?

usermane: @Tbaba1234 and Nairatalks, what brought the issue of female Islamic scholars? Am not disputing the issue of 8000 female scholars versed in Qur'an and Hadith. We, however were talking about backwardness of the muslim in terms scientific application and technological invention. You guys should give response to why the east is lagging behind when it comes to innovations. Why do they have to import most of their electronics,vehicles or computers? Why dont we have anything in our countries like Nigeria imported from them?

Brother, Ramadan Mubarak

There is a myriad of problems, some of which we have already highlighted. Let's make dua that some of the muslim nations wake up. There is nothing we can do here.

tbaba1234:

What is unverifiable about the claim?? It is better for you to say : I don't know...

Now go to Youtube: Type Women scholars of Islam by Dr. Hesham al-Awadi

Better still watch it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_BzMwnGsE8

It is a four part series.

Also Read: Nadwi, Mohammad Akram, Al Muhadithaat, Interface Publications, (2007)

And please do not make statements from ignorance.

So, you are now pointing me to videos of people that brainwashed you with an unverifiable claim? Why not use Islamic historical documents to prove your claims? Quran, Hadith or other historical documents.

8,000 female muslim scholars with no evidence whatsoever. Kindly admit that you made a false claim

tbaba1234:

If i engage in shirk, then Ameen. But Allah Himself told us that we would be tested with difficult times. I did not claim to know the unseen. I specifically said that some things are above our pay grade.



You made statement like the Quran said something without actually knowing what it says.

Maybe, i was not clear. The fact you are given a test means you can handle it because Allah has promised that You might not know that you can but you can.

Maybe, i am a bit harsh. Forgive me for that. If i make an error, correct me, i am not perfect, if i recognize the error, i correct myself.. Do not say i spread falsehood without providing your evidence for it. That is not criticism, you are accusing me of lying.

If you make a good argument with evidence, i will accept it. Do not say, i am spreading falsehood.

Our tests are different, some are tested with luxury and others with difficulty.

Salaam,

All I will say is that I have never seen a man who has lost his wole family and isnt mentally damaged beyond repair from the loss. Also, that you would make a terrible friend to any person who has lost family members by telling them that it is a "test". May Allah save you from the person retaliating by throwing you out of his house and calling it a "test".

usermane: @Tbaba1234 and Nairatalks, what brought the issue of female Islamic scholars? Am not disputing the issue of 8000 female scholars versed in Qur'an and Hadith. We, however were talking about backwardness of the muslim in terms scientific application and technological invention. You guys should give response to why the east is lagging behind when it comes to innovations. Why do they have to import most of their electronics,vehicles or computers? Why dont we have anything in our countries like Nigeria imported from them?

The issue is very simple-

People like Tbaba and other islamic leaders/govt will prefer to preach more religion (which they think they are an authority on) rather than focus on solutions that work.

Imagine Tbaba claiming that the solution is more Islam. Was that the solution that gave the West technological advancement? More islam? Tbaba is living in some past glory of the Arab golden age.


More religion is not the answer. More science, more sensible laws, more education and more sensible investments are the key to catching up with the west. I am a religious person myself but religion is not everything. God is! And I believe God is in each and every hardworking man who wants to progess in th world

There is something theologically wrong and even creepy in claiming that when evil and horrible things happen to people, it is a test from God. That has got to be the most wicked analysis of the mystery of evil phenomenon to anyone grieving from a loss of loved ones or properties.

Such analysis only portrays God as some sadistic supreme bully playing practical jokes on his creation to see how much hurt they can take to recognize his supremacy over them.
If God is an all knowing supreme being that knows what you are about to do even before you do it, then what is the essence of giving a test to which he already knows the outcome, let alone give one that he knows is insurmountable for the person getting such test.
Such position totally renders his omniscient nature untenable.

It is even more absurd to attribute evil phenomenon to past sins cos there are cases where it is obviously clear that some sufferings are just not the direct consequences of any sin committed knowingly or unknowingly, how do you explain children born with genetic disorder or pathological disease that can't be explained even by almighty science. I believe in the concept of direct happenstance as well as random happenstance, evil or bad phenomenon can happen to anyone even an innocent baby, it does not necessarily need to be a test or the direct consequences of Some past sin.
I think it is best to leave things we can't actually explain why they happen or the way they happen, instead of trying to spin as some divine test or punishment for sins committed in the past as if God is some vindictive being that claims to have forgiven but still goes ahead yo punish.

This is an excellent thread

Great points, Nairatalks and rhymz

NL member: This is an excellent thread

Great points, Nairatalks and rhymz

Thanks bro

Nairatalks:



The issue is very simple-

People like Tbaba and other islamic leaders/govt will prefer to preach more religion (which they think they are an authority on) rather than focus on solutions that work.

Imagine Tbaba claiming that the solution is more Islam. Was that the solution that gave the West technological advancement? More islam? Tbaba is living in some past glory of the Arab golden age.


More religion is not the answer. More science, more sensible laws, more education and more sensible investments are the key to catching up with the west. I am a religious person myself but religion is not everything. God is! And I believe God is in each and every hardworking man who wants to progess in th world

Are you a muslim?

alexis:

Are you a muslim?

A muslim convert. Yes, I am a muslim.

Nairatalks:

Salaam,

All I will say is that I have never seen a man who has lost his wole family and isnt mentally damaged beyond repair from the loss. Also, that you would make a terrible friend to any person who has lost family members by telling them that it is a "test". May Allah save you from the person retaliating by throwing you out of his house and calling it a "test".

it seems u have never heard of prophet Muhammad pbuh. u have a lot in common with dummyboy or what's that his name again? as typical making an argument that relies on emotional appeal, as thathaba.point is puts the how a Muslim is suppose to react to calamity which is captured best as a test from Allah,no one prays for misfortune but Muslims must rely on the Qur'an for guidance both in times of comfort and adversity. as thaba rightly captured, the decadence and failing in Muslim land is as a result of deviation from Islam, a society can only be as good as the system it's runs, most Muslim dominated country r running a system that is alien to Islam, nd ur talk of theocraticies r quite false , only two countries that r Muslims claim to b such, Iran & SAudi.now Iran has done a lot in the field of science, as it remains one of the few countries where disel engines r produce and saudi Aramco oil one of the world most highly organized oil company has actually patented some technology it invent, they r many more, but the bottomline is the was plainly myopic and clearly did bring to context other issues involved, we can start by asking why is Nigeria not technologically advanced? I hope u won't blame Muslims for it too?

vedaxcool:

it seems u have never heard of prophet Muhammad pbuh. u have a lot in common with dummyboy or what's that his name again? as typical making an argument that relies on emotional appeal, as thathaba.point is puts the how a Muslim is suppose to react to calamity which is captured best as a test from Allah,no one prays for misfortune but Muslims must rely on the Qur'an for guidance both in times of comfort and adversity. as thaba rightly captured, the decadence and failing in Muslim land is as a result of deviation from Islam, a society can only be as good as the system it's runs, most Muslim dominated country r running a system that is alien to Islam, nd ur talk of theocraticies r quite false , only two countries that r Muslims claim to b such, Iran & SAudi.now Iran has done a lot in the field of science, as it remains one of the few countries where disel engines r produce and saudi Aramco oil one of the world most highly organized oil company has actually patented some technology it invent, they r many more, but the bottomline is the was plainly myopic and clearly did bring to context other issues involved, we can start by asking why is Nigeria not technologically advanced? I hope u won't blame Muslims for it too?

it is obvious you are the one arguing from the standpoint of emotions and unbridled religious alignment. If you think it has to be your fault or a test from God that terrible sufferings happen to somebody then there's something fundamentally wrong with such belief system. As far as religious rectitude goes, torture is no means to test anybody's loyalty or obedience to God.

rhymz: it is obvious you are the one arguing from the standpoint of emotions and unbridled religious alignment. If you think it has to be your fault or a test from God that terrible sufferings happen to somebody then there's something fundamentally wrong with such belief system. As far as religious rectitude goes, torture is no means to test anybody's loyalty or obedience to God.

from a Muslim standpoint our guidance is based on the holy qur'an not your opinion or ur logic.hence save ur rhetoric another thread. thank u.

vedaxcool:
from a Muslim standpoint our guidance is based on the holy qur'an not your opinion or ur logic.hence save ur rhetoric another thread. thank u.

Well, there you have it rhymz, you have to put common sense and reason aside if you want to understand the Islamic explanation

^
yes only one who has no understanding of what commonsense and reasoning is,would make such a statement that epitomize drunken stupor.

vedaxcool:

it seems u have never heard of prophet Muhammad pbuh. u have a lot in common with dummyboy or what's that his name again? as typical making an argument that relies on emotional appeal, as thathaba.point is puts the how a Muslim is suppose to react to calamity which is captured best as a test from Allah,no one prays for misfortune but Muslims must rely on the Qur'an for guidance both in times of comfort and adversity. as thaba rightly captured, the decadence and failing in Muslim land is as a result of deviation from Islam, a society can only be as good as the system it's runs, most Muslim dominated country r running a system that is alien to Islam, nd ur talk of theocraticies r quite false , only two countries that r Muslims claim to b such, Iran & SAudi.now Iran has done a lot in the field of science, as it remains one of the few countries where disel engines r produce and saudi Aramco oil one of the world most highly organized oil company has actually patented some technology it invent, they r many more, but the bottomline is the was plainly myopic and clearly did bring to context other issues involved, we can start by asking why is Nigeria not technologically advanced? I hope u won't blame Muslims for it too?

Sir,

Please what are you talking about? You seem to be talking with misguided anger.

You seem to have the same arrogance with Tbaba. First Tbaba tells me to read the Quran and then you claim that I did not use the Quran to justify my reasoning. You also ask me if I have heard of Muhammad (Pbuh)? Do you have any idea how this is insulting to a practicing muslim?

You dont even understand the point of the thread. You even missed where I used the Quran and theology to explain why Tbaba's answers were incomplete.

Nairatalks:

I just researched on Hamza Tzortzis after going to that website. He is a good philosopher. But I want to play the devil's advocate here with some of the points;





Incomplete theology and misinterpretation of the Quran. While we were created to worship God, we have 3 options;
-worship him in sadness
-worship him in happiness
-worship him with a neutral state of mind.

The Quran does not say that we should worship in sadness

Imagine someone losing his whole family to a hurricane on Thursday, do you honestly expect to see him in the mosque on Friday? He has to grieve and take time to calm down. The hurricane deaths have affected his ability to worship, so your distinguishing between secondary and primary purposes of human life is not as black and white as you see it.




Incomplete theology again. Yes, God tests us but is that all? How do we know when we are tested? To describe somebody losing his whole family to a hurricane as a test from God is borderline psychopathic. We dont know if it is a test or just the way God created the earth to function. Who knows if it is all science and the earth needs such a strong water cycle to keep on surviving as a planet.

I am not saying that God cant test us with hard times. The fact is that we dont know when we are tested and how God tests us. It is rather more reasonable to assume that God tests us with our faith directly rather than with machinations of biology, physics and geology of our bodies and our planet----- I am not sure of this but it seems more sensible




Suffering adds to the experience no doubt.

But if there is a thing like unnecessary suffering then it doesnt bring us closer to God.


Also sins have nothing to do with hurricanes and earthquakes

vedaxcool: ^
yes only one who has no understanding of what commonsense and reasoning is,would make such a statement that epitomize drunken stupor.

Behave yourself, please.

Nairatalks:

Behave yourself, please.

Funny thing is, if I had insulted any muslim here the way vedaxcool insulted me the comment would have been hidden and maybe I would have been banned.



Islam is a just religion!
Allahu Ackbar!!!!!

@NL Member: Islam is the yardstick of reason to know who is a muslim and or committed a msulim is to the faith. Muslim is not the yardstick with a reason to know the quality of Islam. one have to be deceptive to say Muslim is bad, hence Islam is, too.

Islam is the Quality control manual of muslim. You dont fault the Quality control manual if the product line of product is faulty bases on one thing or many. Humans are faulty,in spite of claims of belief and effort in obedience. We are not angels so there is a route to returning.this route is repentance. If a muslim does not commit big sins, he may make many small sins without realizing. so he seek forgiveness, constantly even when it is obvious that he has erred.

Being a believer does not mean you can not be under the yoke of disbelievers. While muslims must strive to make this world a better place, have a goodly share of it, the world is truly a prison compared to Paradise.

If muslims were to be practicing Islam properly, they would have been the trailblazer in every field that brings progress to mankind. Think of it, something of it in a general overview is in the manual of this religion; that would have led any who read and wishes to pursue it to specific inquiries on it, leading to intensive research and discoveries.

Suffering could be a punishment or test. After all Prophet Job [as] was tested. Before it the then muslim community under Moses [as] was punished when they erred to worship idol.

RoyPCain: @NL Member: Islam is the yardstick of reason to know who is a muslim and or committed a msulim is to the faith. Muslim is not the yardstick with a reason to know the quality of Islam. one have to be deceptive to say Muslim is bad, hence Islam is, too.

Islam is the Quality control manual of muslim. You dont fault the Quality control manual if the product line of product is faulty bases on one thing or many. Humans are faulty,in spite of claims of belief and effort in obedience. We are not angels so there is a route to returning.this route is repentance. If a muslim does not commit big sins, he may make many small sins without realizing. so he seek forgiveness, constantly even when it is obvious that he has erred.

Please don't derail the thread, jazakumullah.
I never said Islam should be judged by the actions of muslims. I said Islam is a just religion.