For some time now I hv been reading some amusing and quite interesting threads concerning d issue of Delta Igbos and Identity ish. Most of the points from both sides hv been sound and sensible. I might be wrong, but i hv observed tht majority, if not all igbos beliv all of the pple of Delta North are Igbos. Before I go on, I must add tht we r all entitled to our opinions no matter hw offensive.
Presently, i happen to live in d north and my experience here has made me to know d level of ignorance Nigerians tend to exhibit in d understnding of pple outside their ethnic grp. For example, to d average untravelled southerner, all northerners r Hausas, a complete fallacy that wud make the indigenes of entire states like Benue nd Plateau cringe(Idomas and Tivs don't even speak hausa). The northerner and Yorubas i met during service all believed tht if u r not a northerner nor Yoruba, u automatically r Igbo, a conclusion that is sickening to millions of pple down south.
Personally, i hv learned to live wit such fallacies but i hv not learned to be Igbo yet. Yes, being Igbo is a way of life, a way of life markedly different from my 'peoples way of life'. My people here refer to the people of Aboh, a distinct tribe wit a distinct language that is Igboid. I read somewhr an article wc stated tht language is very dynamicand tht d language of an entire people can change within 100yrs. The change in language doesnt make d people a 'new ethnic grp'. For example, its obvious tht a time, wud come wen some ethnic groups will lose their present languages because of d strong influence of English language, wud tht make them Englishmen? Today we celebrate Christmas and soon we might strt celebrating Halloween nd thanksgivin, wud tht make us Americans?
Are Abohs Igbos? The right person to ask is the Aboh man nd i bet u he'd say no. Are Asabas Igbos? I cnt speak for them cos i'm not Asaba. Yes, we(Abohs) share some similarities wit the ibos such as name, words(i am tempted to use language but it myt be misleading) and......hmmm....very little more, mayb masquerades but that doesnt make us same ethnic grp. We r more like two different pple tht met and shared ideas.
By d way, d term Delta ibo is only used for the sake of ease of description to refer to pple of delta state such as Abohs whose languages r similar to d igbo language.

The concept 'Delta igbo' is as a result of the igbo culture mixing with that of the binis,urhobos,igalas...

small boy how old are you? If i may ask which language do you speak? Which names do you bear? Please confirm from the elderly people in ur village b4 you respond to my questions.

For how long must we continue to see moronic threads as the one here?. Today, it's Abors are not Igbos, yesterday, it was Agbor is not Igbo, May be tomorrow it will be Igbo uzo or Akwukwu Igbo is not Igbo. So many idle brains here this days.
Yet Yorubas are not here to say, Ekiti is not Yoruba, Offa is not Yoruba, Ikorodu is not Yoruba etc.
This brainless thread deserves the waste bin Biko

Nwa oguta: small boy how old are you? If i may ask which language do you speak? Which names do you bear? Please confirm from the elderly people in ur village b4 you respond to my questions.

I doubt it if u read my post through cos if u did u wud hv found d ansas to ur questns except tht regarding my age. Anyway, to start wit, i am not a small boy. As for my name, i wud rather not disclose tht at this point cos its not necessary. I have my own questns for u, the name of the President of Nigeria is Goodluck Jonathan, does this in anyway make him English or Jewish/Hebrew?

oturugo: For how long must we continue to see moronic threads as the one here?. Today, it's Abors are not Igbos, yesterday, it was Agbor is not Igbo, May be tomorrow it will be Igbo uzo or Akwukwu Igbo is not Igbo. So many idle brains here this days.
Yet Yorubas are not here to say, Ekiti is not Yoruba, Offa is not Yoruba, Ikorodu is not Yoruba etc.
This brainless thread deserves the waste bin Biko

LMAO. Mr Super intelligent I'm sori to announce to u tht we r not Igbos, we have never been nd will neva be. I doubt it if u hv eva bin to Aboh, but if u hv u'd most likely hv heard d Aboh man say 'kene bu onyi-igbo omari ni Aboh su' meaning: 'this one is an Igbo man, he doesnt knw hw to speak Aboh'. Innately, we don't even imagine ourselves as Igbos in d least sense. You dnt knw so just chill man

clefstone: LMAO. Mr Super intelligent I'm sori to announce to u tht we r not Igbos, we have never been nd will neva be. I doubt it if u hv eva bin to Aboh, but if u hv u'd most likely hv heard d Aboh man say 'kene bu onyi-igbo omari ni Aboh su' meaning: 'this one is an Igbo man, he doesnt knw hw to speak Aboh'. Innately, we don't even imagine ourselves as Igbos in d least sense. You dnt knw so just chill man

Boy, stop displaying further stupidity here. Onitsha people call Obosi and their neighbours nwonyeigbo, does that mean they are not Igbo people. Do you want to tell me that Ifeajuna or Zik is not Igbo. Am happy you are not Igbo but do not make it seem as if Abors are not Igbo.
Why are Yorubas not insane to create threads saying Osogbos are not Yorubas, Egbas are not Yorubas, Remos are not Yorubas etc.
I don't know what fools derive in creating idiotic divisions among Igbo groups. Shameful.

clefstone: LMAO. Mr Super intelligent I'm sori to announce to u tht we r not Igbos, we have never been nd will neva be. I doubt it if u hv eva bin to Aboh, but if u hv u'd most likely hv heard d Aboh man say 'kene bu onyi-igbo omari ni Aboh su' meaning: 'this one is an Igbo man, he doesnt knw hw to speak Aboh'. Innately, we don't even imagine ourselves as Igbos in d least sense. You dnt knw so just chill man

The modern Igbo identity developed from Aboh. Your language is the same with Imo State people. You'll likely greet "Ajee" like us. Ethnicity is dynamic just like language and I won't be surprised if quest for political convenience and acceptability in the South-south has also infested Aboh. Aboh which started the Igbo thing will today be a distinct minority group of Igbo speakers while others that never used the name are the new Igbos.

A NARRATIVE

OF THE

EXPEDITION

SENT BY HER MAJESTY'S GOVERNMENT
TO

THE RIVER NIGER

IN 1841

UNDEK THE COMMAND OF

CAPTAIN H. D. TROTTER

BY

WILLIAM ALLEN

AND

T. R. H. THOMSON



At noon we passed a large village called Utok,
inhabited by a mixture of the Ibu and Egaboh tribes.



During his approach, and while alongside, some musicians in the retinue performed the
royal air on the "ope", a sort of wind instrument formed
by hollowing out a young elephant's tusk : an oblong
hole is bored at the upper third,


The Benin people cannot come to Ibu(Igbo), as there is perpetual war between them and the tribes at Ejoh(Ijaw), which the traders must pass to reach Ibu.



Commissioners. — Do they sacrifice human beings
in the Ibu country ?

Obi (rather embarrassed). — They do not sacrifice
human beings ; only animals — sheep, goats, fowls, &c.



We ascertained that the name Ibu belongs to a large
tract of country lying on both sides of the Niger, but
is more extensive to the eastward of it, and containing
possibly many independent tribes, of which Obi rules
over the villages in the immediate neighbourhood of the
river, and it appears that his power does not extend
much beyond the reach of his canoes. The real name
of his chief town, we find, is Aboh, and not Ibu or
Eboe, as Lander called it.

Obi is called the Ezzeh Obi Osai. The first being
his title, answering to king or chief; the second his
patronymic, and the last his cognomen. His sovereignty
is acknowledged for about fifty-five miles along both sides
of the river ; Oni^h being his lowest village on the right
bank, near the Benin branch ; Owiah Okbe, the highest.
On the left bank, fi-om Ip^tanih upwards to Akra-atan,
near the Onechk River, and all the villages included
between these.

http://www.archive.org/stream/narrativeofexped01alle/narrativeofexped01alle_djvu.txt

I'm really amazed at the intelligence of these Europeans. They were able to observe that most Igbo speaking people existed as independent groups and that more are on the East of the Niger than the West.

oturugo:
Boy, stop displaying further stupidity here. Onitsha people call Obosi and their neighbours nwonyeigbo, does that mean they are not Igbo people. Do you want to tell me that Ifeajuna or Zik is not Igbo. Am happy you are not Igbo but do not make it seem as if Abors are not Igbo.
Why are Yorubas not insane to create threads saying Osogbos are not Yorubas, Egbas are not Yorubas, Remos are not Yorubas etc.
I don't know what fools derive in creating idiotic divisions among Igbo groups. Shameful.

Dude, do me a favor. Stop using Yoruba as beacon for what should or shouldn't be applied here.

Address the issue directly by drawing core facts within the context of Igbo cultural institutions instead of using what foreigners in Yorubaland do as a parity for what must obtain here on this issue.

If Aboh bear Igbo names and speak Igbo and are custodians of Igbo masquerade cults, then there is a footprint of shared identity and the depth and broadness of that presence needs to be tracked and accounted for. Dont you think?

Leave Yoruba out of this my brother.

Dudu_Negro:

Dude, do me a favor. Stop using Yoruba as beacon for what should or shouldn't be applied here.

Address the issue directly by drawing core facts within the context of Igbo cultural institutions instead of using what foreigners in Yorubaland do as a parity for what must obtain here on this issue.

If Aboh bear Igbo names and speak Igbo and are custodians of Igbo masquerade cults, then there is a footprint of shared identity and the depth and broadness of that presence needs to be tracked and accounted for. Dont you think?

Leave Yoruba out of this my brother.

Am sorry Negro nts, I so much admire the mentality of the Yorubas here that's why I use it as an example.
Am sure if you are an Igbo like me you will be annoyed with people always coming up with craps every week that this and that is not Igbo. Don't be surprised to see one demented poster here one day claiming that Okigwe is not Igbo.

oturugo:
Am sorry Negro nts, I so much admire the mentality of the Yorubas here that's why I use it as an example.
Am sure if you are an Igbo like me you will be annoyed with people always coming up with craps every week that this and that is not Igbo. Don't be surprised to see one demented poster here one day claiming that Okigwe is not Igbo.

The funny part is tht you have made no valid point yet u rant abuses at d slightest opportunity. Whts d cause of ur hate?

Dudu_Negro:

Dude, do me a favor. Stop using Yoruba as beacon for what should or shouldn't be applied here.

Address the issue directly by drawing core facts within the context of Igbo cultural institutions instead of using what foreigners in Yorubaland do as a parity for what must obtain here on this issue.

If Aboh bear Igbo names and speak Igbo and are custodians of Igbo masquerade cults, then there is a footprint of shared identity and the depth and broadness of that presence needs to be tracked and accounted for. Dont you think?

Leave Yoruba out of this my brother.

Thnk you for helping someone reason logically. Mr Dudu negro, as much as we share some cultural traits wit d Igbos we also share so many others wit d izons, binis, isokos nd even Urhobos. But d value system of d Abohs is a sharp contrast from any so called 'Igbo group'

Abagworo:

The modern Igbo identity developed from Aboh. Your language is the same with Imo State people. You'll likely greet "Ajee" like us. Ethnicity is dynamic just like language and I won't be surprised if quest for political convenience and acceptability in the South-south has also infested Aboh. Aboh which started the Igbo thing will today be a distinct minority group of Igbo speakers while others that never used the name are the new Igbos.




http://www.archive.org/stream/narrativeofexped01alle/narrativeofexped01alle_djvu.txt

We don't greet Ajee. I'l study this though

clefstone: Thnk you for helping someone reason logically. Mr Dudu negro, as much as we share some cultural traits wit d Igbos we also share so many others wit d izons, binis, isokos nd even Urhobos. But d value system of d Abohs is a sharp contrast from any so called 'Igbo group'

For God's sake, shut up your stinking mouth boy. Arochukwu shares a lot with Ejagham, Ibibio, Annang etc, yet they are not insane to disclaim Igbo.
Stop it now.

oturugo:
For God's sake, shut up your stinking mouth boy. Arochukwu shares a lot with Ejagham, Ibibio, Annang etc, yet they are not insane to disclaim Igbo.
Stop it now.

thats cos they r Igbos influenced by those oda cultures. On d other hands Abohs were only influenced by Igbos. U r just workin urself up ova pple tht don't see u as their brodas

oturugo:
Am sorry Negro nts, I so much admire the mentality of the Yorubas here that's why I use it as an example.
Am sure if you are an Igbo like me you will be annoyed with people always coming up with craps every week that this and that is not Igbo. Don't be surprised to see one demented poster here one day claiming that Okigwe is not Igbo.

Its okay man, i understand the frustration of dealing with unpatriotic elements within the fold and you dont have to apologize. Its important to keep derailers out of your discussion, repeated mention and rference to Yoruba will divert discussions.

On Aboh being Igbo or not, personally I have no opinion but it strikes as odd that a culture in which the tongue and cults and naming all follow that of a parent cannot then dispute its roots, unless it can prove that it came into the tribal family by way of adoption. In that case a deeper inspection is needed to answer question about the roots.

Don't you guys ever get tired of arguing the same thing over-and-over again?

odumchi: Don't you guys ever get tired of arguing the same thing over-and-over again?

I wonder o, my brother. Some people just derive joy in creating Igbo vs not-Igbo threads and the ensuing arguments that follow. And the image they create of such threads on nairaland are usually far from the reality in life.

The white man who presented a full speech in Igbo in year 18xx or so to the Obi of Aboh by collecting extensive igbo words from igbo slaves in sierra leone in preparation for the coming of Christianity to Igboland wouldn't have attempted presenting it at all in Aboh if he felt or sensed that the people weren't Igbo or Igbo-speaking.

When all these Igbo-denying people come out denying Igbo, one begins to wonder what's wrong with being Igbo? The Igbo people that are very much comfortable in their own skin that walk around everyday going their daily duties, have they died since? Have they been stoned to death since?

I sense that state boundaries are really the cause of this confusion. People use state boundaries which are mere artificial constructs to determine who's Igbo or not. Dismantle all the 36 states and a whole different concept will come into mind. Reorder the boundaries and create new states and you'll see the Igbo groups adjusting to what they've been put into. You'll find out that its just a case of mere physical boundaries. Adjust the western and southern boundaries of Anambra state to include parts of Delta Igbo and Ndoni in Rivers state respectively you'll see that suddenly all the Igbo denial from there will stop. It will be unlikely to hear someone from the new Anambra state claiming 'I am from Anambra state but I'm not Igbo'. The newly included people will now feel relaxed and feel a more sense of belonging that they are now with their brothers who they are more closely related to. Extend the southern boundary of Imo state to include Etche, Egbema, Omumma and all the Igbo denial coming from that axis will stop. Extend the south-western boundary of Abia state to include Obigbo and all the anti-igbo segments from there will stop. Case closed. All the identity problem has been solved. Then you'll find out that state boundary all along has been the main cause of denial which is a very little problem to solve. Gowon saw this right from the onset and used it to create disunity within the Igbo group to which our people fell heavily for it.

Meet any igbo-denying person and ask him why he says he's not Igbo and the next thing he'll tell you is, 'I'm not from the south-east', or 'I'm not from the east'. East/south east have now become the determining factor in deciding who is Igbo or not. Which means that if parts of Anambra, Imo and Enugu at the boundaries(of which the people are proud Igbos today) are carved out from their present locations into adjacent bordering states, the people will suddenly stop being Igbo and instead identify with the name of their native clans.

If state boundaries are the yardstick to which Igbo-denying people use to determine who's Igbo or not, fine, give it to them the way they want it. Adjust the boundaries accordingly and solve their identity crisis problem.

@Op...if you discredit using language to determine your Igbo ancestry, now tell me, what is the unifying language factor that makes the Onicha man and the Owerri man, who both speak totally different dialects, Igbo? These two people speak almost mutually unintelligible dialects but today see themselves as one. Please tell me, if not language, what else unifies these two people to classify them as Igbo?

I'm waiting for your reply.

bigfrancis21:

I wonder o, my brother. Some people just derive joy in creating Igbo vs not-Igbo threads and the ensuing arguments that follow. And the image they create of such threads on nairaland are usually far from the reality in life.

The white man who presented a full speech in Igbo in year 18xx or so to the Obi of Aboh by collecting extensive igbo words from igbo slaves in sierra leone in preparation for the coming of Christianity to Igboland wouldn't have attempted presenting it at all in Aboh if he felt or sensed that the people weren't Igbo or Igbo-speaking.

When all these Igbo-denying people come out denying Igbo, one begins to wonder what's wrong with being Igbo? The Igbo people that are very much comfortable in their own skin that walk around everyday going their daily duties, have they died since? Have they been stoned to death since?

I sense that state boundaries are really the cause of this confusion. People use state boundaries which are mere artificial constructs to determine who's Igbo or not. Dismantle all the 36 states and a whole different concept will come into mind. Reorder the boundaries and create new states and you'll see the Igbo groups adjusting to what they've been put into. You'll find out that its just a case of mere physical boundaries. Adjust the western and southern boundaries of Anambra state to include parts of Delta Igbo and Ndoni in Rivers state respectively you'll see that suddenly all the Igbo denial from there will stop. It will be unlikely to hear someone from the new Anambra state claiming 'I am from Anambra state but I'm not Igbo'. The newly included people will now feel relaxed and feel a more sense of belonging that they are now with their brothers who they are more closely related to. Extend the southern boundary of Imo state to include Etche, Egbema, Omumma and all the Igbo denial coming from that axis will stop. Extend the south-western boundary of Abia state to include Obigbo and all the anti-igbo segments from there will stop. Case closed. All the identity problem has been solved. Then you'll find out that state boundary all along has been the main cause of denial which is a very little problem to solve. Gowon saw this right from the onset and used it to create disunity within the Igbo group to which our people fell heavily for it.

Meet any igbo-denying person and ask him why he says he's not Igbo and the next thing he'll tell you is, 'I'm not from the south-east', or 'I'm not from the east'. East/south east have now become the determining factor in deciding who is Igbo or not. Which means that if parts of Anambra, Imo and Enugu at the boundaries(of which the people are proud Igbos today) are carved out from their present locations into adjacent bordering states, the people will suddenly stop being Igbo and instead identify with the name of their native clans.

If state boundaries are the yardstick to which Igbo-denying people use to determine who's Igbo or not, fine, give it to them the way they want it. Adjust the boundaries accordingly and solve their identity crisis problem.

@Op...if you discredit using language to determine your Igbo ancestry, now tell me, what is the unifying language factor that makes the Onicha man and the Owerri man, who both speak totally different dialects, Igbo? These two people speak almost mutually unintelligible dialects but today see themselves as one. Please tell me, if not language, what else unifies these two people to classify them as Igbo?

I'm waiting for your reply.

. Mr. Big francis, i hv pondered ova most of these points u hv analysed so many times in d past but they stil do not prove much.
On creation of states creating artificial boundaries and causing identity crisis, my grandma who is stil alive today was born way b4 any state or regional boundary was created in Nigeria and yet doesnt beliv she is Igbo. On d contrary, i beliv creation of regional boundary has made some tribes in d east identify as Igbos as a way of strenghtenin nd unifyin the region. Aboh, wit a very rich culture and proud of her past has refusd to abandon her identity in d name of unificatn, wc in itself is not a bad thing. I must admit tht it wud be politically favourable in d present times to unify wit d Igbos but d price to pay wud b a loss of our ancestral identity, too huge a price to pay.
Sometin u must consider before any conclusion is, how did these pple live before d colonial times?
Concernin language, no need to dwell on this one for too long, culture is not equal to language. The Scots r not Englishmen though they speak English nd r politically united

clefstone: . Mr. Big francis, i hv pondered ova most of these points u hv analysed so many times in d past but they stil do not prove much.
On creation of states creating artificial boundaries and causing identity crisis, my grandma who is stil alive today was born way b4 any state or regional boundary was created in Nigeria and yet doesnt beliv she is Igbo. On d contrary, i beliv creation of regional boundary has made some tribes in d east identify as Igbos as a way of strenghtenin nd unifyin the region. Aboh, wit a very rich culture and proud of her past has refusd to abandon her identity in d name of unificatn, wc in itself is not a bad thing. I must admit tht it wud be politically favourable in d present times to unify wit d Igbos but d price to pay wud b a loss of our ancestral identity, too huge a price to pay.
Sometin u must consider before any conclusion is, how did these pple live before d colonial times?
Concernin language, no need to dwell on this one for too long, culture is not equal to language. The Scots r not Englishmen though they speak English nd r politically united

Well, you should know that 100 years ago and beyond, all Igbo clans existed and bore the respective names of their clans. The onicha people identified as onicha, the awka man identified himself as awka, the ikwerre man said he's ikwerre, the owerre man said he's owerre and so on. The general name, 'igbo' was non-existent then and was NEVER used to classify these peoples. The same thing was also observed during the slave trade when 'igbo' slaves were taken from different clans in 'igboland' and when they arrived the americas and were asked their tribes, they mentioned instead their clan names such as etche, arondizuogu, isuama, omumma, okigwe, etc. How the whites got to call these language-related clans Igbo, no one knows. And when they were called Ebo by the whites the slaves were very much surprised as they had never heard the name before while back in their homeland. The term 'Igbo' might be a name borne out of slavery during the slave trade. In Asaba Igbo, 'Igbo' the way it is natively pronounced with down accents means 'slave' in their dialect while in other dialects it means nothing but the Igbo as we know it today whether tribe or language. Whether these delta igbo people used it to refer to other clans east of the niger who sold their people out to slavery as 'igbo'(slaves), I don't know, and maybe its there the name stuck up, nobody knows. But the name was carried over to the americas where the whites grouped all these clans speaking a common language together under one umbrella called 'Ebo'. Thank God they did if not the Igbo presence and identity in the slave trade would have forever been lost in the annals of history.

The usage of Igbo in Nigeria is only a recent construct that started in the 1920s. A newspaper of 1924 carries a story of an awka man and an onitsha man discussing over a new unfamiliar name the whites who had come into Nigeria were calling them. And when they prodded the whites further to ask them why they were being called a name they were not used to instead of their clan names as usual, the whites explained to them that because he the awka man speaks a language which the onicha man also speaks and understands then both clans must be related and are brothers so they will be called one name which is 'Igbo'. And they said 'ok'.

The whites used 'Igbo' to classify together all language-related clans in 'Igboland' who happened to be speaking variations of basically the same language for harmony and ease of identity. Apparently, 92% of these clans accepted their new identity. However, their former historical identity was never wiped away and was still preserved as village name or LGA name as we see today. The clan of Abia state called 'Igbere' (corrupted anglicised version of Igbo ere or Igbo ereghi) had their name borne during the slave trade when neighbouring clans tried to invade their clan to capture their children and people and sell them away as slaves. The Igbere natives fought back furiously and chased away the invaders and were very proud of their feat that they termed themselves, 'Igbo ereghi' meaning 'Igbo couldn't sell us'. Apparently, they didn't see themselves as 'Igbo' but instead the clans around them were 'Igbo' not them. Similar trend is still found in our times now, the Aboh for example.

As observed in current times, a few clans will rather stick to their native name and reject the general name classification of which they were classified under based on linguistic similarities.

The scots that you gave an example of still have their own native language called 'scottish'. But due to the terrifying language spread from their nearby english-speaking neighbours, English has crept into every nook and cranny of the land of the scots and almost uprooted their language, thus leaving most of them speaking English and less scottish. However, the people who speak English, in addition to their own native language, either monolingually or bilingually still identify as scots. The same is happening in the country of Australia today whereby the people's native language is Maori but due to the invasion and colonization of the English-speaking people in Australia coupled with the banning of Maori-speaking and the imposition of English as the sole official language in Australia, Maori language is fast becoming extinct as only less than 15% of the millions of Maorians in Australia can actually speak Maori. The 15% which when translated to numbers yields about 4,000 people only. However, the people don't identify as English but Maori.

But the case of the Igbo people is different as virtually all Igbo clans existed as well-delineated republican groups presided over a council of elders. And the Igbo people were never known to be colonialists who were won't to invade other people's lands and impose their language on them like the English. Never was that recorded in history of the Igbo people. That is why anybody who speaks an Igbo dialect today is automatically considered an Igbo person, because he is not speaking an imposed language on him but rather a language passed down to him by his ancestors which is part of his ancestral heritage acquired by the ancestors by their own self will.

If any of these Igbo clans want to claim the case of the Scottish or Maori, then let them step up and tell us what their original language was before igbo colonization wiped it away. Let them also show us at least one surviving speaker of such proto language as valid proof of their so-called Igbo colonization. I bet 1000% no one can't come up with such evidence. As strong as English is in Australia and Scotland, coupled with the voluntary imposition of English on the people, yet their original language still managed to survive and are being spoken by a few percentage of the whole populace as evidence that they ARE NOT ENGLISH people, as they still have their original language. Then why can't the same be said for Aboh, Ikwerre, Ika etc?

I understand full well that its not a must an Igbo clan accepts the general 'Igbo' classification they have been given, and that each clan has a right to stick to its usual ancestral first clan name. But then it should be noted that the classification was done MAINLY on linguistic grounds as language is the strongest linking element between different set of peoples that is used to establish relations. Once two groups of peoples speak entirely different languages, then they cannot be related.

bigfrancis21:

Well, you should know that 100 years ago and beyond, all Igbo clans existed and bore the respective names of their clans. The onicha people identified as onicha, the awka man identified himself as awka, the ikwerre man said he's ikwerre, the owerre man said he's owerre and so on. The general name, 'igbo' was non-existent then and was NEVER used to classify these peoples. The same thing was also observed during the slave trade when 'igbo' slaves were taken from different clans in 'igboland' and when they arrived the americas and were asked their tribes, they mentioned instead their clan names such as etche, arondizuogu, isuama, omumma, okigwe, etc. How the whites got to call these language-related clans Igbo, no one knows. And when they were called Ebo by the whites the slaves were very much surprised as they had never heard the name before while back in their homeland. The term 'Igbo' might be a name borne out of slavery during the slave trade. In Asaba Igbo, 'Igbo' the way it is natively pronounced with down accents means 'slave' in their dialect while in other dialects it means nothing but the Igbo as we know it today whether tribe or language. Whether these delta igbo people used it to refer to other clans east of the niger who sold their people out to slavery as 'igbo'(slaves), I don't know, and maybe its there the name stuck up, nobody knows. But the name was carried over to the americas where the whites grouped all these clans speaking a common language together under one umbrella called 'Ebo'. Thank God they did if not the Igbo presence and identity in the slave trade would have forever been lost in the annals of history.

The usage of Igbo in Nigeria is only a recent construct that started in the 1920s. A newspaper of 1924 carries a story of an awka man and an onitsha man discussing over a new unfamiliar name the whites who had come into Nigeria were calling them. And when they prodded the whites further to ask them why they were being called a name they were not used to instead of their clan names as usual, the whites explained to them that because he the awka man speaks a language which the onicha man also speaks and understands then both clans must be related and are brothers so they will be called one name which is 'Igbo'. And they said 'ok'.

The whites used 'Igbo' to classify together all language-related clans in 'Igboland' who happened to be speaking variations of basically the same language for harmony and ease of identity. Apparently, 92% of these clans accepted their new identity. However, their former historical identity was never wiped away and was still preserved as village name or LGA name as we see today. The clan of Abia state called 'Igbere' (corrupted anglicised version of Igbo ere or Igbo ereghi) had their name borne during the slave trade when neighbouring clans tried to invade their clan to capture their children and people and sell them away as slaves. The Igbere natives fought back furiously and chased away the invaders and were very proud of their feat that they termed themselves, 'Igbo ereghi' meaning 'Igbo couldn't sell us'. Apparently, they didn't see themselves as 'Igbo' but instead the clans around them were 'Igbo' not them. Similar trend is still found in our times now, the Aboh for example.

As observed in current times, a few clans will rather stick to their native name and reject the general name classification of which they were classified under based on linguistic similarities.

The scots that you gave an example of still have their own native language called 'scottish'. But due to the terrifying language spread from their nearby english-speaking neighbours, English has crept into every nook and cranny of the land of the scots and almost uprooted their language, thus leaving most of them speaking English and less scottish. However, the people who speak English, in addition to their own native language, either monolingually or bilingually still identify as scots. The same is happening in the country of Australia today whereby the people's native language is Maori but due to the invasion and colonization of the English-speaking people in Australia coupled with the banning of Maori-speaking and the imposition of English as the sole official language in Australia, Maori language is fast becoming extinct as only less than 15% of the millions of Maorians in Australia can actually speak Maori. The 15% which when translated to numbers yields about 4,000 people only. However, the people don't identify as English but Maori.

But the case of the Igbo people is different as virtually all Igbo clans existed as well-delineated republican groups presided over a council of elders. And the Igbo people were never known to be colonialists who were won't to invade other people's lands and impose their language on them like the English. Never was that recorded in history of the Igbo people. That is why anybody who speaks an Igbo dialect today is automatically considered an Igbo person, because he is not speaking an imposed language on him but rather a language passed down to him by his ancestors which is part of his ancestral heritage acquired by the ancestors by their own self will.

If any of these Igbo clans want to claim the case of the Scottish or Maori, then let them step up and tell us what their original language was before igbo colonization wiped it away. Let them also show us at least one surviving speaker of such proto language as valid proof of their so-called Igbo colonization. I bet 1000% no one can't come up with such evidence. As strong as English is in Australia and Scotland, coupled with the voluntary imposition of English on the people, yet their original language still managed to survive and are being spoken by a few percentage of the whole populace as evidence that they ARE NOT ENGLISH people, as they still have their original language. Then why can't the same be said for Aboh, Ikwerre, Ika etc?

I understand full well that its not a must an Igbo clan accepts the general 'Igbo' classification they have been given, and that each clan has a right to stick to its usual ancestral first clan name. But then it should be noted that the classification was done MAINLY on linguistic grounds as language is the strongest linking element between different set of peoples that is used to establish relations. Once two groups of peoples speak entirely different languages, then they cannot be related.

I think you have indepth Knowledge of the Igbo situation. It was Zik and some other Igbo politicians that helped develop the Igbo nationalism by founding the Igbo Union in which most Igbo groups including Aboh were members. The politics of civil war and the sufferings of the Igbos made some retrace their past and the eventual death of Igbo union. However this lead to a neo-Igbo nationalism which comprise strictly of today's Southeast and the Asaba/Oshimili/Aniocha area of Delta State. What we share is the restriction of the coup punishment in the form of massacre to this area and the obvious post-civil war marginalization.

clefstone: The funny part is tht you have made no valid point yet u rant abuses at d slightest opportunity. Whts d cause of ur hate?

^^^In part of your initial post you stated: "The northerner and Yorubas i met during service all believed tht if u r not a northerner nor Yoruba, u automatically r Igbo, a conclusion that is sickening to millions of pple down south". And you dare point a finger at someone else accusing them of hate? All i can say is- look whose talking!

IGBO-SON:


^^^In part of your initial post you stated: "The northerner and Yorubas i met during service all believed tht if u r not a northerner nor Yoruba, u automatically r Igbo, a conclusion that is sickening to millions of pple down south". And you dare point a finger at someone else accusing them of hate? All i can say is- look whose talking!

don't understand ur reasoning. Where is d hate in wht i said?

Yes, when i opened the thread "do igbo really exist?". It looks like i am causing a lot of problem. I have heard an nsukka man in this forum pronounce publicly that they are nsukka and not igbos. This is what we see when people leave the basic things to study in order to understand a particular thing and study the less relevant ones. E-histories have damaged igbo unity. Alot of people derive joy in causing division and funny enough, those people are always the first to start preaching when their investment start yielding income. Igbo north and south, nsukka,aro,isu,nri,igbo groups, cultural zones and all sorts of rubbish by some lunatics. British made us igbo and today an aboh man has decided to be what he was before the british came,so why convincing him that he is igbo? .@ op, you used goodluck jonathan as an example but u failed to realize that the british stayed in what is now called nigeria for hundreds of years colonising the people. And also, they brought a religion,christianity which has jewish root. So, someone bearing goodluck jonathan as a nigerian can be explained. In ur case op, was there any time in the history of aboh that igbos colonised u? How did igbo elements(names,market days,language,masquarades etc) entered into aboh if aboh is a distinct ethnicity? Can u pls give us a clear history of aboh,the language they have been speaking prior to the igbo,the year they adopted igbo,what brought about the adoption. I hope they are all there in ur history. For clarification sake pls.

Antivirus92: Yes, when i opened the thread "do igbo really exist?". It looks like i am causing a lot of problem. I have heard an nsukka man in this forum pronounce publicly that they are nsukka and not igbos. . British made us igbo and today an aboh man has decided to be what he was before the british came,so why convincing him that he is igbo?

What really gets Abagoro mad is that prior to the civil war, everyone accepted the "Ibo union" which formed the ethnic bond of the Igbos only for some to exonerate themselves after the war. It stinks of cowardize, mental instability and lack of principle. Those are some of the reasons other Nigerians see us as cheap people that lack principle. I have long decided that only those that accept 100% being Igbo should be allowed to be one of us. Even if someone speaks Hausa and believes wholeheartedly that he/she is Igbo, I'll accept him. Look at Amaechi being persecuted because he's seen as an Igbo expansionist and he'll be busy trying to prove to them that he's not Igbo. We may be kind of close but I don't regard him as Igbo. They even try to sell the idea to me that I'm not Igbo.

Abagworo:

What really gets Abagoro mad is that prior to the civil war, everyone accepted the "Ibo union" which formed the ethnic bond of the Igbos only for some to exonerate themselves after the war. It stinks of cowardize, mental instability and lack of principle. Those are some of the reasons other Nigerians see us as cheap people that lack principle. I have long decided that only those that accept 100% being Igbo should be allowed to be one of us. Even if someone speaks Hausa and believes wholeheartedly that he/she is Igbo, I'll accept him. Look at Amaechi being persecuted because he's seen as an Igbo expansionist and he'll be busy trying to prove to them that he's not Igbo. We may be kind of close but I don't regard him as Igbo. They even try to sell the idea to me that I'm not Igbo.

yes brother, those hypocrites are more dangerous than snake bite. I will rather accomodate a fulani than to accomodate an ikwerre. One thing some people failed to understand is that even though the british created that one igbo consciousness, what unite igbo people is beyond that ethnic consciousness created by the white men.

Antivirus92: yes brother, those hypocrites are more dangerous than snake bite. I will rather accomodate a fulani than to accomodate an ikwerre. One thing some people failed to understand is that even though the british created that one igbo consciousness, what unite igbo people is beyond that ethnic consciousness created by the white men.

Yes there existed shared language and culture but the antagonists could site some examples of people being of same origin, share same language and culture but could not even be united by the British. A clear case study is the Efik/Ibibio/Annang whom we all call Calabar people and cannot distinguish their phenotype and language. My only anger is that the Igbos all accepted being under the Igbo fold and later some withdrew for political and economic interest.

Abagworo:


Yes there existed shared language and culture but the antagonists could site some examples of people being of same origin, share same language and culture but could not even be united by the British. A clear case study is the Efik/Ibibio/Annang whom we all call Calabar people and cannot distinguish their phenotype and language. My only anger is that the Igbos all accepted being under the Igbo fold and later some withdrew for political and economic interest.

efik/annang/ibibio decided not to be united. They may be sharing anscestry,language etc but due to some factors may decide to remain different 4rm each other. I don't take some things serious. Community like aboh may have people who would like to identify with the igbos and also have people like the op. But if aboh as a whole want to seen as a distinct people,they are free. For as much as i know,language and culture alone does not unite people. It is that kind of mentality that made some people like the ikwerres to start disassociating themself from other igbos. When somebody starts thinking that the only thing he has in common with the other person is language. There is tendency that he will start seeing himself as different from that person. After all language is not a strong bond. But when a person start asking himself,how did language unite me with this other person? How did it all happened? Are we really different people? If yes,how come the language similarity. Did my group colonise his or was the reverse?. Did my people trade with his people in the past? How do we have similar culture? Why is that the other people at the other side did not share these similarities with us?. I HOPE ASKING URSELF SUCH QUESTIONS WILL HELP U TO UNDERSTAND MORE OTHER THAN SHOUTING THAT "we are just united by language and culture and thats all"

Antivirus92: efik/annang/ibibio decided not to be united. They may be sharing anscestry,language etc but due to some factors may decide to remain different 4rm each other. I don't take some things serious. Community like aboh may have people who would like to identify with the igbos and also have people like the op. But if aboh as a whole want to seen as a distinct people,they are free. For as much as i know,language and culture alone does not unite people. It is that kind of mentality that made some people like the ikwerres to start disassociating themself from other igbos. When somebody starts thinking that the only thing he has in common with the other person is language. There is tendency that he will start seeing himself as different from that person. After all language is not a strong bond. But when a person start asking himself,how did language unite me with this other person? How did it all happened? Are we really different people? If yes,how come the language similarity. Did my group colonise his or was the reverse?. Did my people trade with his people in the past? How do we have similar culture? Why is that the other people at the other side did not share these similarities with us?. I HOPE ASKING URSELF SUCH QUESTIONS WILL HELP U TO UNDERSTAND MORE OTHER THAN SHOUTING THAT "we are just united by language and culture and thats all"

What you wrote above still relates exactly to what I wrote earlier. You can be of same origin, shared language, traded and inter-married but still chose to exist independently. There are even cases in modern day where brothers decide to go their separate ways and change their surnames. In 100years time, do you think their descendants will be the same family despite the fact that they might look and behave alike?

According to the oral history of the origin of Aboh Kingdom, the people of Aboh originated from the ancient kingdom of Bini. The Benin prince, Esumai and his companions migrated from Bini to wht is the present day Aboh. There they met and conquered d aboriginals, established a new kingdom called Aboh. As for the language, it is likely tht the people around d region were igbo speakers and the original Aboh settlers being a minority gradually adopted d igbo dialect and lost their original language. This wud mainly arise due to the need to communicate in a general language in d area for ease of trade as is observed in the North whr hausa is d 'trade' language. The closeness of the word for king in both bini nd aboh langauges, i.e Oba nd Obi respectively is one of many examples of some words wc sound alike in d 2 languages.

clefstone: According to the oral history of the origin of Aboh Kingdom, the people of Aboh originated from the ancient kingdom of Bini. The Benin prince, Esumai and his companions migrated from Bini to wht is the present day Aboh. There they met and conquered d aboriginals, established a new kingdom called Aboh. As for the language, it is likely tht the people around d region were igbo speakers and the original Aboh settlers being a minority gradually adopted d igbo dialect and lost their original language. This wud mainly arise due to the need to communicate in a general language in d area for ease of trade as is observed in the North whr hausa is d 'trade' language. The closeness of the word for king in both bini nd aboh langauges, i.e Oba nd Obi respectively is one of many examples of some words wc sound alike in d 2 languages.

You only want to cause unnecessary controversy here. Esumei came from Benin and met some aboriginal Igbos which means his lineage are not aborigines of Aboh but migrated their later and hence have no right to speak for the aborigines. Who are the Ndichie Ukwu and Ndichie Nta? What if the aborigines rise up today and ask Esumei's descendants to go back to Esako where they came from?