Fulaman198: BTW, Fulani have nothing to do with Middle East. Our roots and origin is from Senegambia and Mauritania. North Africa makes sense, because before Arabs came to Africa, that's where we lived. Most original Africans (true Berbers like the Touareg and Fulani, Kanuri, Hausa, etc.) were moved from North Africa when Arabs came and invaded.

Agreed...Fulani people along with other modern day West Africans lived in the sahara when it was wet. Thats where their ancestors lived.

KidStranglehold:

Agreed...Fulani people along with other modern day West Africans lived in the sahara when it was wet. Thats where their ancestors lived.

This is correct, there are still picture markings portraying cattle grazing in the vast Savannah that the most Northern part of the Sahara once was. There are still Fulani living in the Sahara as well as other West Africans, we just are only in the Southern Sahara/Sahel now. The Fulani, Hausa, Beri-Beri, Toubou, etc. still inhabit Sahara.

Fulaman198:

This is correct, there are still picture markings portraying cattle grazing in the vast Savannah that the most Northern part of the Sahara once was. There are still Fulani living in the Sahara as well as other West Africans, we just are only in the Southern Sahara/Sahel now. The Fulani, Hausa, Beri-Beri, Toubou, etc. still inhabit Sahara.

Yeah...The original inhabitants of West Africa were a different people than the modern day ones.

I actually think the Hausa people and other non E1b1a chadic speakers are from East Africa and only recently entered West Africa. Atleast thats what I've read.

KidStranglehold:

Yeah...The original inhabitants of West Africa were a different people than the modern day ones.

I actually think the Hausa people and other non E1b1a chadic speakers are from East Africa and only recently entered West Africa. Atleast thats what I've read.

I think Hausa and Chadic speakers in general originate from present day Sudan. Although it is hard to say, regardless Hausa are some of the most darkest and beautiful black people (in my opinion) in the world, in case if some Hausa get offended by me calling them dark.

Fulaman198:

I think Hausa and Chadic speakers in general originate from present day Sudan. Although it is hard to say, regardless Hausa are some of the most darkest and beautiful black people (in my opinion) in the world, in case if some Hausa get offended by me calling them dark.

I think that title goes to the Dinka people.

Hausa people are e1b1a people @ kid.
they are not "cushitic" although they speak an afro. asiatic language.

i do believe fulaman to be right that they and chadic speakers were probably
originally sudanic. it makes a LOT of sense!!

and the fulani are a HETEROGENEOUS ethnic group that happen to share language,
culture (for the most part with a few differences here and there), religion,
and customs. Its kind of like the Akan people. There are many subsets of akan
people but they are not all the same.

Some of the fulani DID in fact migrate from east africa
this is evident in their presence in eithopia and egyptian depictions of some of
them like the wodaabe (who DO carry e1b1b dna as well as e1b1a), however you are right the majority of them originated in north africa following the great west africa migration from east africa where all black people originated from.

and one LAST THING

being "arab" does not mean one cannot be "black". its like being "latino", its nto a race but a culture. i truly and sincerely hate to say this but arabs (>>>>those from the arab peninsula) DO have black african ancestry.

they were prehistoric mutts who migrated BACK into africa but their ancestors were like a proto-berberish type originally believed to have come from the horn of africa. (i hope that makes sense).

im going to keep it 100 percent real,
on this subject of linking all africans together i was always right.
but when royal was telling me about the fulani and also the history of the arabs, HE was actually correct in the end. looking at the pictures of ancient horners, egyptians, and present horners such as the afar, beja, sudanese, ethiopians etc. he was correct in saying that wavy hair is NOT native to africa. the people the proto-berberish people mixed with are the ones who brought that phenotype into africa through further mixing. Africa's TRUE diversity IS ONLY found in skin tone, body type, and facial features. #period.

Where is proof that Hausa people are E1b1a Your confusing Hausa with fulani like most people do...Fulanis are the ones that are E1b1a. In Nigeria Fulanis E1b1a is 100%.

Hausa people are E1b1b

In terms of overall ancestry, an autosomal DNA study by Tishkoff et al. (2009) found the Hausa to be most closely related to Nilotic populations from Nigeria, Cameroon, central Chad and South Sudan. This suggests that the Hausa and other modern Chadic speaking populations originally spoke Nilo-Saharan languages, before later adopting languages from the Afro-Asiatic family
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausa_people#Genetics

Nilotic speaking people as a whole DO NOT carry E1b1a.


And the Fulanis are not...Repeat...NOT from East Africa. Their Y-DNA, MtDNA, ADNA, Language and culture does not correlate with that. Fulanis being in Ethiopia is only recent, they didn't migrate from Ethiopia but to Ethiopia. Fulanis like other modern West Africans have their roots in the sahara when it was wet. They migrated to the Sahel and coastal parts when the sahara started to dry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98viuKQnIWU

And wavy hair most likely is native to Africa. There is no proof that it was due to non Africans. Most Africans who have wavy hair live in dry environments where that type of hair is needed. So no non Africans is not needed for that type of hair texture.

The Australian Aborigines are tropically adapted and have similar features to Africans.
[img]http://4.bp..com/_NnvOI_SWsCE/TM-kPrmoE2I/AAAAAAAAAv0/iV7kqeG0-r4/s320/australia-aborigines-460.jpg[/img]

Yet they have wavy hair due to living in dry environment.

KidStranglehold: Where is proof that Hausa people are E1b1a Your confusing Hausa with fulani like most people do...Fulanis are the ones that are E1b1a. In Nigeria Fulanis E1b1a is 100%.

Hausa people are E1b1b

I'm sorry, but this is not correct. Hausa people, as a rule, are much more E1b1a than E1b1b. Please, check your sources again.

makahlj2:

I'm sorry, but this is not correct. Hausa people, as a rule, are much more E1b1a than E1b1b. Please, check your sources again.

You left out the part where it states Hausa people are more closely related to Nilotic speakers, who are mostly not E1b1a...

makahlj2:

I'm sorry, but this is not correct. Hausa people, as a rule, are much more E1b1a than E1b1b. Please, check your sources again.

lol exactly.

KidStranglehold: Where is proof that Hausa people are E1b1a Your confusing Hausa with fulani like most people do...Fulanis are the ones that are E1b1a. In Nigeria Fulanis E1b1a is 100%.

Hausa people are E1b1b

Hausa people are NOT e1b1b by in large.
a few may be due to mixing but the majority of them are not e1b1b.

In terms of overall ancestry, an autosomal DNA study by Tishkoff et al. (2009) found the Hausa to be most closely related to Nilotic populations from Nigeria, Cameroon, central Chad and South Sudan. This suggests that the Hausa and other modern Chadic speaking populations originally spoke Nilo-Saharan languages, before later adopting languages from the Afro-Asiatic family
Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hausa_people#Genetics

LMAO you just proved my point.
Nilotes ARE NOT e1b1b UNLESS you are talking about the rendilles and other nilotes who MIXED with the cushitic speakers. Aside from their shared Nilotic ancestry those people are not related directly to the Hausa. I speak English but does that make me Germanic? no!!

Nilotic speaking people as a whole DO NOT carry E1b1a.

YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?!

And the Fulanis are not...Repeat...NOT from East Africa.

Like I said, fulanis are NOT a homogenous group.
some of them DID migrate from east africa.

i am not asking you that. lol

Their Y-DNA, MtDNA, ADNA, Language and culture does not correlate with that. Fulanis being in Ethiopia is only recent, they didn't migrate from Ethiopia but to Ethiopia. Fulanis like other modern West Africans have their roots in the sahara when it was wet. They migrated to the Sahel and coastal parts when the sahara started to dry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98viuKQnIWU

Ok kid!! if you say so
i have been studying this stuff for a while now. I am positive in what I am talking about.
Its a KNOWN FACT the sahara was once lush with vegetation and was much more tropical. its a fact there was migration there and ppl settled there however the fact remains that the fulani are NOT a homogenous groups. Empires and clans were formed throughout africa were formed through mixing and at times by force.

And wavy hair most likely is native to Africa. There is no proof that it was due to non Africans. Most Africans who have wavy hair live in dry environments where that type of hair is needed. So no non Africans is not needed for that type of hair texture.

prove this to me with some science.
and please provide credible sources.

The Australian Aborigines are tropically adapted and have similar features to Africans.
[img]http://4.bp..com/_NnvOI_SWsCE/TM-kPrmoE2I/AAAAAAAAAv0/iV7kqeG0-r4/s320/australia-aborigines-460.jpg[/img]

they are mixed sir, they were a combination of people who are believed to looked like adaman islanders and a separate race that was already in aussie land.

Yet they have wavy hair due to living in dry environment.

ok....

Guys, Nilotes have mostly A, B and E1b1b Y-DNA. This is known well enough, and the percentage of E1b1b in some Nilotic tribes is high enough to not be caused only by mixing with "Cushites".

makahlj2: Guys, Nilotes have mostly A, B and E1b1b Y-DNA. This is known well enough, and the percentage of E1b1b in some Nilotic tribes is high enough to not be caused only by mixing with "Cushites".

the only way is because of mixing sir.
look at their location.

naturally some will be more e1b1b and others e/a

but those who are e/b are too far from the hausa speakers that there is no direct relationship. they are more closely related to somalis/afar/habesha/etc.

its all about location and yes, mixing. but much like a lot of large african groups they lived as one sharing language, customs etc.

KidStranglehold: And wavy hair most likely is native to Africa. There is no proof that it was due to non Africans. Most Africans who have wavy hair live in dry environments where that type of hair is needed. So no non Africans is not needed for that type of hair texture.

The Australian Aborigines are tropically adapted and have similar features to Africans.
[img]http://4.bp..com/_NnvOI_SWsCE/TM-kPrmoE2I/AAAAAAAAAv0/iV7kqeG0-r4/s320/australia-aborigines-460.jpg[/img]

Yet they have wavy hair due to living in dry environment.

(Almost) All forms of hair most probably appeared multiple times in multiple places around the Earth. Hair is known to be remarkably adaptable and flexible. And this man looks much more like a tanned European man than like an African.

makahlj2: (Almost) All forms of hair most probably appeared multiple times in multiple places around the Earth. Hair is known to be remarkably adaptable and flexible. And this man looks much more like a tanned European man than like an African.

again you have to be careful with that.

there is no ONE way to "look africa" or "look european".

culled from wikipedia

Another study by Hassan et al. (2008) analysed the Y-DNA of populations in the Sudan region, with various local Nilotic groups included for comparison. The researchers found the signature Nilotic A and B clades to be the most common paternal lineages amongst the Nilo-Saharan speakers, except those inhabiting western Sudan, where an appreciable North African influence was noted.

Haplogroup A was observed amongst 62% of Dinka, 53.3% of Shilluk, 46.4% of Nuba, 33.3% of Nuer, 31.3% of Fur and 18.8% of Masalit.

Haplogroup B was found in 50% of Nuer, 26.7% of Shilluk, 23% of Dinka, 14.3% of Nuba, 3.1% of Fur and 3.1% of Masalit. The E1b1b clade was also observed in 71.9% of the Masalit, 59.4% of the Fur, 39.3% of the Nuba, 20% of the Shilluk, 16.7% of the Nuer, and 15% of the Dinka.

because of the % we know that they are a product of E1B1A and E1B1B MIXING.

Hassan et al. attributed the atypically high frequencies of the haplogroup in the Masalit to either a recent population bottleneck that likely altered the community's original haplogroup diversity or to geographical proximity to E1b1b's place of origin in North Africa, where the researchers suggest that the clade "might have been brought to Sudan from[...] after the progressive desertification of the Sahara around 6,000–8,000 years ago".[13] Henn et al. (2008) similarly observed Afro-Asiatic influence in the Nilotic Datog of northern Tanzania, 43% of whom carried the M293 sub-clade of E1b1b

e1b1b's origin is in the horn/somalia
Northern tanzania is closer to somalia than nigeria sir

Hausa speakers are a combination of true nilotic ancestry and niger-congo populations.

[size=18pt]#location
#location
#location![/size]

and if wavy hair is native to africa

why do these people have kinky hair?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XF4qq-juoQ4

oh and dont mind tha curls of the afar...see

its a combination of animal fat and twigs used to curl the hair

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfuo0GACyqE

aside from those with clear arab admixture this is what the afar
originally look like


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0Wgm0gqjy0

AGAIN e1b1b were and still are black africans. they and some nilotes) were the parents of the ancient egyptians ffs! they have ALWAYS had straight noses, elongated/thin bodies, and even "longer hair" but
the wavy texture of many today is the result of MIXING with outsiders.

This should be a challenge. Finally someone who is a challenge unlike a certain person.

*Kails*:


Hausa people are NOT e1b1b by in large.
a few may be due to mixing but the majority of them are not e1b1b.

But do you have evidence that their largely E1b1a

*Kails*:

LMAO you just proved my point.
Nilotes ARE NOT e1b1b UNLESS you are talking about the rendilles and other nilotes who MIXED with the cushitic speakers. Aside from their shared Nilotic ancestry those people are not related directly to the Hausa. I speak English but does that make me Germanic? no!!

Nope...Not really. Autosomal DNA tells us that they're more Nilotic than West African. Especially South Sudanese.


You keep thinking E1b1b is limited to Cushite speakers when its also found in Nile Saharan speakers.

Funny you mention E1b1b in Nilotic speakers is due to mixing with cushitic speakers when in fact E1b1b peaks on Northeast Africa where Nilotic people are largely found.


While E1b1a is hardly found in Northeast Africa especially Northeast Africa.


Have you forgotten that E1b1a is RECENT in Northeast Africa and is mostly contributed to the Bantu migration. Nilotic speakers lived in that area well before Bantu speakers who are mainly E1b1a and E1b1a in Nilotic is recent and is not the predominant Y-DNA in them...

So no I did not prove your point. And admixture tells us that they are related to Nilotic speakers. Y-DNA just tells ancestry..

*Kails*:



YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?!

Study?

*Kails*:

Like I said, fulanis are NOT a homogenous group.
some of them DID migrate from east africa.

i am not asking you that. lol

And like I said Fulanis in East Africa are RECENT. I know Fulanis are a large group. But the root stem of all Fulani people originated in Senegambia. Their ancestors lived in the Sahara during the Holocene when it was wet. There is no proof that some Fulanis migrated from Ethiopia, if so its recent. If that was the case then there would be an high increase if E1b1a in Ethiopia, but that is not the case.

*Kails*:

Ok kid!! if you say so
i have been studying this stuff for a while now. I am positive in what I am talking about.
Its a KNOWN FACT the sahara was once lush with vegetation and was much more tropical. its a fact there was migration there and ppl settled there however the fact remains that the fulani are NOT a homogenous groups. Empires and clans were formed throughout africa were formed through mixing and at times by force.

Yeah and the root of all Fulani people stem from Senegambia. Their ancestors lived in the sahara. Fulanis being with spread is recent due to them being nomads. Come on now Fulanis are predominantly E1b1a in Y-DNA, E1b1a is barely if at all found in Ethiopia or other parts of Africa excluding West and Central Africa. What does that tell us?

*Kails*:

prove this to me with some science.
and please provide credible sources.

Heh...If you say so.

From Britannica Encyclopedia (1990 ed.)

East African local race, a subgroup, roughly corresponding to a breeding isolate in genetics, of the Negroid (African) geographical race, comprising the populations of East Africa and The Sudan. The physical type of the East African local race is primarily one of adaptation to a hot, dry climate; it is marked by long, thin body build, long, narrow face and nose, and moderate to heavy skin pigmentation. The Sudanese peoples are dark-skinned and extremely tall and thin (linear) in build. The other East African populations are also more or less linear in build and somewhat lighter skinned than the Sudanese. All have dark eyes and dark hair, wavy to frizzy in texture.


Hair also varies in Africa – from the Horn, to the
Atlantic to the Cape.
Quote: “Extremely "wooly" hair is not the only kind native
to tropical Africa.." (S. Keita 1993. "Studies and Comments)

HA!

*Kails*:

they are mixed sir, they were a combination of people who are believed to looked like adaman islanders and a separate race that was already in aussie land.

Dios mio! Please tell me you're not seriously kails...The Australian Aboriginals have been an ISOLATED people until the arrival of the British. Who were they mixed with Do you have scientific studies that state that they were mixed with Andaman Islanders.

Again their wavy hair is due to them living in dry again dry environment.

*Kails*:

ok....

K...

omfg you can't be serious!

are you seriously using PRESENT DAY populations to make your point kid?

makahlj2: (Almost) All forms of hair most probably appeared multiple times in multiple places around the Earth. Hair is known to be remarkably adaptable and flexible. And this man looks much more like a tanned European man than like an African.

Please tell me you're joking!

Does these people look like a tanned European

As for hair textures. What about this horners


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ke7ZH8_1v9E


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NkisT4wgId0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8hARkpfEBU

HA! I can play the same game too.

Of course I'm not saying Africans have hair like say Europeans or Indians, but something less extreme like wavy/frizzy.

KidStranglehold:

Please tell me you're joking!

Does these people look like a tanned European

Lol. I said "looking more like tanned Europeans", not "looking like Europeans". And No, these folks don't look African either.

*Kails*:
omfg you can't be serious!

are you seriously using PRESENT DAY populations to make your point kid?

What do you mean?

Face fact already...Nilotics are of Northeast African stock and E1b1b is NOT limited to Horners. E1b1b is like a blanket term. E-V13 is a Subclade of E1b1b and its mostly found in Europeans. Nilotic speakers are more E1b1b than E1b1a. I do agree that their mainly A and B.

Playing what game lol im play no games its about fact. The somalis a probably the worst ppl to use as they themselves know they have some yemeni ancestry. Lol. They say it themselves esp. The darood clan. And because somalis have intermarried within themselves the various hair textures were spread nation wide. But they originally looked like the afar.

Same with the habesha. some of them are even up to 60 percent arab lol the same intertribal mixing is the reason some have asiatic hair while some still have pepper corn hair too. Its just common sense.

makahlj2:

Lol. I said "looking more like tanned Europeans", not "looking like Europeans". And No, these folks don't look African either.

I know that and how do they look like tanned Europeans Which was my point. They may not look like Africans but they CERTAINLY DO NOT look like tanned Europeans.

They're still mainly tropically adapted like Africans while Europeans are cold adapted.

*Kails*:
Playing what game lol im play no games its about fact. The somalis a probably the worst ppl to use as they themselves know they have some yemeni ancestry. Lol. They say it themselves esp. The darood clan. And because somalis have intermarried within themselves the various hair textures were spread nation wide. But they originally looked like the afar.

Same with the habesha. some of them are even up to 60 percent arab lol the same intertribal mixing is the reason some have asiatic hair while some still have pepper corn hair too. Its just common sense.

Sorry but recent studies show that Somalis are mainly African and so are most Ethiopians.


Look where horn of Africans are grouped...

Source:
http://www.dnatribes.com/dnatribes-snp-admixture-2013-02-11.pdf

I already told you their hair is due to being adapted to their dry climate.

From Britannica Encyclopedia (1990 ed.)

East African local race, a subgroup, roughly corresponding to a breeding isolate in genetics, of the Negroid (African) geographical race, comprising the populations of East Africa and The Sudan. The physical type of the East African local race is primarily one of adaptation to a hot, dry climate; it is marked by long, thin body build, long, narrow face and nose, and moderate to heavy skin pigmentation. The Sudanese peoples are dark-skinned and extremely tall and thin (linear) in build. The other East African populations are also more or less linear in build and somewhat lighter skinned than the Sudanese. All have dark eyes and dark hair, wavy to frizzy in texture.

I'll post more if you want me to.

People seriously need to let go of this horners being mixed. Their physical features for the most part is due to being adapted to their environment.

you posted that already which describes present day east africans (as of 1990).
and it still proves absolutely nothing when it comes to the SCIENCE behind ANCIENT Africans and wavy hair. i am still waiting for that.

i dont care about how we are related to them.
we all know east and west africans are brothers (E haplogroup) what i NEED you to prove is evidence that wavy hair has ALWAYS been in east africa.

lmfao!

sir these habesha people are clearly mixed race

amahara

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LlwkXVcjEe4

im not going to go around in circles. i did last year with royal, somalia11, morpheus etc.
and its pointless.

The study I posted clearly stated that East African wavy hair is due to dry heat adaptation.


But anyways...You said you wanted wavy hair in Ancient Africans. Well some of the Ancient Egyptians and Nubians had wavy/frizzy/curly hair.








Note I know hair becomes more dead and loose when a person is deceased, but still.

And also note King Ramses III was of E1b1a and Queen Tiya was proven by autosomal DNA test to be mainly of Bantu(I know its just an language group) origins. Which proves my point with dry heat adaptation.

KidStranglehold:

People seriously need to let go of this horners being mixed. Their physical features for the most part is due to being adapted to their environment.

Their cranial and nose shapes are NATIVE to africa.
that is an undisputed FACT! but their hair (those with wavy) is NOT!

FFS these people once controlled the Axum empire which literally had the northern part of the horn of africa and saudia arabia in its possession. add that with the location, mixing was inevitable.

the FIRST egyptians were clearly BLACK african people but around the same time axum rose to its height egypt too saw had share of non-africans within its borders which is why towards the middle and end of its reign, egyptians depicted themselves as a mix of people.