Boomark:


So it has gotten to the level of calling scriptural quote man made ideology? We know that there are 3 Gods are One God blah blah. So Go and handle the true meaning of "I and My Father are one" as seen in 1Cor 6:17. That is a threat to your trinity false teaching of co-equality. It made a mess of it. Stop dodging it.

God the Father is the Father of spirits, Heb 12:9. Out of Him are all spirits. He is that One spirit, Eph 4:4.

A God is OLDER than a God. Such foolishness is only found in your doctrine. God is the father of the Holy Spirit abi? Show me a scripture to prove that. While at it..Who is this scripture referring to? [size=16pt]Now the Lord is that Spirit:[/size] and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.2 Corinthians 3:17

"For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ." (Jude 4, NASB).

Emusan:




See another lie, Who spoke to John?

Lie? I believe Revelations 1:1 answers that question well.

God (YHWH) gave Jesus, Jesus gave Angels, Angels gave John through signs.

Verses leading to verse 8 did not indicate Jesus talking to John yet.

Emusan:

Absolutely YES! I repeat "It was the advent of Jesus on Earth that people know Yahweh exists more than one.

You mean people like you not the Apostles I think. Because the Jews/ Jesus' disciples believe in ONLY ONE YHWH- Ephesians 4:6

So YHWH exist "more than one" you say, How then can "more than one" be equal to one/ the same like you suggested?

So prior to Jesus' earthly existence there was one YHWH, then through Fission there were two and later three, is that it?

Emusan:

SMH...did they know also that the Messiah is the CREATOR of all things or YHWH is only the creator?

They knew YHWH used a Master worker to create all things. Hints- "Let us make", "Wisdom as master worker", "all things made THROUGH". YHWH has continously used his messengers/Angels to carry out his works.

Emusan:

I can see how you misunderstood my point here, I said the Father becomes Jesus God at His HUMANITY not when Jesus had not taken on flesh. So the divinity of Jesus isn't about His life on EARTH after the DIVINE EVARLASTING LIFE had taken on flesh.

Facts: While Jesus was on Earth he was not just a Man, he was also 'A' God too (fullness of the divinity dwell on him). You fail to notice that Even after Jesus resurrection and ascension to Heaven HE STILL CLAIM TO HAVE A GOD HE ANSWERS TO - John 20:17, Revelation 3:2,12.

So you see Jesus having a personal God stretch beyond his human existence or are you implying that Jesus was not a God when Revelation was written?

Emusan:

Lolzzz...please you believe Jesus was the FIRSTCREATED of God, so can you tell us now who are the FELLOWS of Jesus Christ? because you believe Jesus has fellows which is the reason why you FIRST QUOTED Heb 1:9 not me

Well you don't have to believe me, just believe what Hebrew 1:9 says that " Jesus has Fellows/companions" except you think that scripture does not refer to Jesus or what did your own bible say there.

Emusan:

See how you keep exposing your ignorance was the throne of David given to Jesus before His life on Earth or after He became Human?

I don't get you, you are avoiding the issue. Even a little child knows the answer to the above-NB I am not contesting that.

I am saying Luke 1:32 clearly call Jesus "Son of the Most High" and not the "Most high" himself
who is clearly identified by YHWH at Psalms 83:18.

The difference lies in the phrase "Son of". Why was Adam and the Angels called "Sons of God", why is Jesus ALWAYS referred to as "the son of "

Emusan:

See another ignorance in display, Yahweh appeared to Abraham in form of Man does it mean Yahweh change?
Beside what Malachi 3:6 was addressing is Yahweh will never change IN HIS PROMISE not even talking about NATURE.

YHWH Never appeared to Abraham in the form of man? Those where his angel representative that spoke to men of old. Or did he Fission another copy of himself different from Jesus?

How did you come about your conclusion of Malachi 3:6? Because Jesus clearly stated that "God is a SPIRIT" and he his In Heaven.

As per his promise: He promised Abraham not to destroy Sodom if 40 righteous exists later he changed it to 10 at Abraham's request, did he not?

Emusan:

I got this from your previous post "Jesus never claimed to be Almighty God". [size=14pt]He was sent by a superior God.[/size]

Lolzzz so how many SUPERIOR GOD do you have?
If Jesus is a SUPERIOR God why the NWT translated John 1:1 as a god?

YHWH is superior to Jesus, Jesus is superior to Angels, Angels his superior to Man (me)- How many superior God do I have- Jesus answers "I am going to My God and Your(RikoduoSennin's) God"- Every other Gods does not matter, since I ONLY PRAY TO THE ALMIGHTY.

NWT used that grammar because the translators understood that Jesus has his personal God- rule of grammar dictates that Capital letter 'G' is used for only the Almighty while every other type of Gods use small letter 'g'. NB: This is the same rule other bible translator use when describing the kind of God man, angels and Satan is- they use small letters to denote that and capital to denote the Almighty (but since they believe trinity- they use it for Jesus too)

A God is OLDER than a God. Such foolishness is only found in your doctrine. God is the father of the Holy Spirit abi? Show me a scripture to prove that. While at it..Who is this scripture referring to? [size=16pt]Now the Lord is that Spirit:[/size] and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.2 Corinthians 3:17

Where did you see "A God is OLDER than a God" in my post? Always using lies to evade questions.

Answer my question first then we can go over to your own. I know how much you fear my questions. Brace yourself like a man....

What is the meaning of "I and My Father are one"? use scriptures to prove yourself. Man-made trinity doctrine will fail you so use scriptures. Please do not digress.

The only thing that pains me most in discussing with you is my precious time you wasted.

RikoduoSennin:

Lie? I believe Revelations 1:1 answers that question well.
God (YHWH) gave Jesus, Jesus gave Angels, Angels gave John through signs.
Verses leading to verse 8 did not indicate Jesus talking to John yet.

So because YHWH gave Jesus it means it's YHWH who is speaking, when verse 8 identifies who is speaking "...and which is to come, the Almighty"

The last sentence in the book of Revelation is "...Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

You mean people like you not the Apostles I think. Because the Jews/ Jesus' disciples believe in ONLY ONE YHWH- Ephesians 4:6

So YHWH exist "more than one" you say, How then can "more than one" be equal to one/ the same like you suggested?

So prior to Jesus' earthly existence there was one YHWH, then through Fission there were two and later three, is that it?

You've answered this yourself below.

They knew YHWH used a Master worker to create all things. Hints- "Let us make", "Wisdom as master worker", "all things made THROUGH". YHWH has continously used his messengers/Angels to carry out his works.

Lol....So let us make which JWs interpreted as Sons of God to disprove the PLURALITY of God is what you interpreted as MASTER WORKER...
Please show me the verse in Hebrew Scriptures where the phrase "all things made THROUGH"

So the wisdom is it a person or intellect?

Facts: While Jesus was on Earth he was not just a Man, [size=14pt]he was also 'A' God too (fullness of the divinity dwell on him).[/size] You fail to notice that Even after Jesus resurrection and ascension to Heaven HE STILL CLAIM TO HAVE A GOD HE ANSWERS TO - John 20:17, Revelation 3:2,12.

Please if FULLNESS OF DIVINITY dwell in CHRIST, so what is the essence of your argument?

So you see Jesus having a personal God stretch beyond his human existence or are you implying that Jesus was not a God when Revelation was written?

[b]This is another dubious act of JWs you can use this verse as Jesus' statement but you claimed it is YHWH who gave Jesus then Jesus gave angel then to John Which the whole book of Revelation was spoken by YHWH through Jesus then angel then John.

The answer to your question is Jesus still possessed His HUMANITY in heaven.

Well you don't have to believe me, just believe what Hebrew 1:9 says that " Jesus has Fellows/companions" except you think that scripture does not refer to Jesus or what did your own bible say there.

In your statement below, you said [b]"YHWH is SUPERIOR to Jesus and Jesus is SUPERIOR to angel and man" So who are the FELLOWS/COMPANIONS of Jesus I still want to show you that you don't understand what that verse means before you applied it.

I don't get you, you are avoiding the issue. Even a little child knows the answer to the above-NB I am not contesting that.

I am saying Luke 1:32 clearly call Jesus "Son of the Most High" and not the "Most high" himself
who is clearly identified by YHWH at Psalms 83:18.

How then YHWH begat Jesus His son, is it through creation or what?
NB:-what you create can never be you but what you beget is you?

The difference lies in the phrase "Son of". Why was Adam and the Angels called "Sons of God", why is Jesus ALWAYS referred to as "the son of "

Was Adam and Angels equal Jesus in everyway as the were both Sons?

YHWH Never appeared to Abraham in the form of man? [size=14pt]Those where his angel representative[/size] that spoke to men of old. Or did he Fission another copy of himself different from Jesus?

The bolded part says it all.

How did you come about your conclusion of Malachi 3:6? Because Jesus clearly stated that "God is a SPIRIT" and he his In Heaven.

As per his promise: He promised Abraham not to destroy Sodom if 40 righteous exists later he changed it to 10 at Abraham's request, did he not?

Your ignorance of the scriptures makes me tired of typing, how can you say the CONVERSATION between YHWH and Abraham proved that YHWH changed His promise

YHWH is superior to Jesus, Jesus is superior to Angels, Angels his superior to Man (me)- How many superior God do I have- Jesus answers "I am going to My God and Your(RikoduoSennin's) God"- Every other Gods does not matter, since I ONLY PRAY TO THE ALMIGHTY.

The question is HOW MANY SUPERIOR GOD do you have?

So because YHWH gave Jesus it means it's YHWH who is speaking, when verse 8 identifies who is speaking "...and which is to come, the Almighty"

The last sentence in the book of Revelation is "...Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Both Jehovah and Jesus are said to "come". Jesus comes representatively. God is the Judge, but He has committed the Judging to Jesus.

Rev 1:4

"May you have undeserved kindness and peace from “the One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne"

Here talks about Jah.

The way that Rev 1:8 is constructed, it can never be Jesus who is being spoken of. Mark the words "Jehovah God". That combination is never used for Jesus.

Emusan:
The only thing that pains me most in discussing with you is my precious time you wasted.

Then stop replying me then- if it waste your precious time so much. You were hoping to WIN argument not communicate your thought/beliefs like I am doing. (I don't expect much from you- so I am not troubled at all)

Emusan:

So because YHWH gave Jesus it means it's YHWH who is speaking, when verse 8 identifies who is speaking "...and which is to come, the Almighty"

The last sentence in the book of Revelation is "...Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

Please Check the original Greek version of Revelation 1:8 and you will find "Lord THE God" there, Then point me to where else Jesus was addressed as Lord the God.

Emusan:

Please if FULLNESS OF DIVINITY dwell in CHRIST, so what is the essence of your argument?

The Essence is, Even with all his Divinity Jesus has a personal God- he said so himself numerous times not because of his humanity because he was in possession of his Divinity also.

Emusan:

[b]This is another dubious act of JWs you can use this verse as Jesus' statement but you claimed it is YHWH who gave Jesus then Jesus gave angel then to John Which the whole book of Revelation was spoken by YHWH through Jesus then angel then John.

The answer to your question is Jesus still possessed His HUMANITY in heaven.

Does that also Mean he still "Prays and Worship" the Father as his personal God even though he his now in Heaven with him (Just like he did on Earth?

NB: Please STOP attacking my religion. I don't attack your church or Faith do I? Address me next time. Why do people belief JW members can't think for their self? Or is it because we all (JW members) share the same beliefs/united in worship? If the latter is the case, we are flattered.

Emusan:

In your statement below, you said [b]"YHWH is SUPERIOR to Jesus and Jesus is SUPERIOR to angel and man" So who are the FELLOWS/COMPANIONS of Jesus I still want to show you that you don't understand what that verse means before you applied it.

You like argument a lot because you want to PROVE A POINT (without checking to see if the "point"
is relevant).

Did Jesus have 'Fellows' or not according to Hebrew 1:9, that is my interest. Your interest lies in who the Fellows are. If we don't agree in the first instance, of what improtance is the second instance? If you want to ignore my question of If Jesus has Fellows/Companions- then its up to you to tell me the answer to your question- who are the fellows?

Emusan:

How then YHWH begat Jesus His son, is it through creation or what?
NB:-what you create can never be you but what you beget is you?

Yes through Creation. Jesus is never the Father, he NEVER claimed to be The Father, did he now?

Emusan:

Was Adam and Angels equal Jesus in every way as the were both Sons?

Being Equal is not the Issue, the Issue is Why are they all called "Son of God". (The reason behind that statement speaks a lot)

Emusan:

The question is HOW MANY SUPERIOR GOD do you have?

Only one, The ONLY TRUE GOD- Jehovah The Almighty. How many superior rulers does a Nigerian have- Only one- the President- others like VP, Governors etc are under The president.

RikoduoSennin:

Then stop replying me then- if it waste your precious time so much. You were hoping to WIN argument not communicate your thought/beliefs like I am doing. (I don't expect much from you- so I am not troubled at all)

Not about replying you but your shallow explanation of the scriptures is worrisome.

Please Check the original Greek version of Revelation 1:8 and you will find "Lord THE God" there, Then point me to where else Jesus was addressed as Lord the God.

Lol...now turn to the Greek, the point is WHO IS COMING?

The Essence is, [size=14pt]Even with all his Divinity Jesus has a personal God[/size] he said so himself numerous times not because of his humanity because he was in possession of his Divinity also.

This is the reason I said you have shallow explanation of the scriptures, DIVINITY means Jesus is a DEITY can you tell us how Jesus is a DEITY and YHWH is also a DEITY? Maybe you didn't know that the point we are trying to bring out is THE DEITY OF JESUS Christ which you've already confirmed.

Does that also Mean he still "Prays and Worship" the Father as his personal God even though he his now in Heaven with him (Just like he did on Earth?

You didn't address the first point YHWH gave Jesus the Revelation and Jesus gave Angel and Angel gave John, which means everything in Revelation is about the Father now how were you be able to extract Jesus' statement from all what YHWH gave?

While on Earth He prayed to the Father because He needed the help of the Father if the need arises in heaven He will do so.

NB: Please STOP attacking my religion. I don't attack your church or Faith do I? Address me next time. Why do people belief JW members can't think for their self? [size=14pt]Or is it because we all share the same beliefs/united in worship? If the latter is the case,[/size] we are flattered.

I must expose the lies your organization is propagating
The bolded part contradicting Watchtower because according to Watchtower only JW is a true follower of Yahweh so other Christian denomination are false according to JW, so what can you say about that?

You like argument a lot because you want to PROVE A POINT (without checking to see if the "point" is relevant).

Did Jesus have 'Fellows' or not according to Hebrew 1:9, that is my interest. Your interest lies in who the Fellows are. If we don't agree in the first instance, of what improtance is the second instance? If you want to ignore my question of If Jesus has Fellows/Companions- then its up to you to tell me the answer to your question- who are the fellows?

Tell me my points that are not relevant here...
The bone of my contention is YOU FIRST WRONGLY APPLY Heb 1:9 to mean Jesus has fellows which can't make Him to be God, and I went ahead to tell you that the companions there wasn't about His DIVINTY (Beside JW always used Heb 1:9 to prove Jesus to be Angel Michael because according to they were both Angel) and I referred you to Hebrew 2 to see who are these companions.

Yes through Creation. Jesus is never the Father, he NEVER claimed to be The Father, did he now?

Can you see your life? what you create is not you but what you beget is you, So Jesus cannot be begotten through creation.
How does the Father begot Jesus?
Then who says Jesus is the Father?

Being Equal is not the Issue, the Issue is Why are they all called "Son of God". (The reason behind that statement speaks a lot)

Even believers are also called sons of God, what does that mean?

[size=14pt]Only one, The ONLY TRUE GOD- Jehovah The Almighty.[/size] How many superior rulers does a Nigerian have- Only one- the President- others like VP, Governors etc are under The president.

Nigeria has only one superior ruler which is THE PRESIDENT, now YOU'VE ALREADY SAID Jesus is A SUPERIOR GOD can you see how confuse you are? I know you will come with another excuse.

Emusan:




Lol...now turn to the Greek, the point is WHO IS COMING?

Coming to do What exactly? Inspect God's Temple or Judge mankind etc ?

Emusan:


This is the reason I said you have shallow explanation of the scriptures, DIVINITY means Jesus is a DEITY can you tell us how Jesus is a DEITY and YHWH is also a DEITY? Maybe you didn't know that the point we are trying to bring out is THE DEITY OF JESUS Christ which you've already confirmed.

No the Point is Jesus is a Mighty God (Divine being) and The Father is Almighty God (also a Divine being) Just like Angels, Satan and Man are also Divine beings/Gods.

The Father just happens to be at the end of a very long chain of Divine beings.

Emusan:


You didn't address the first point YHWH gave Jesus the Revelation and Jesus gave Angel and Angel gave John, which means everything in Revelation is about the Father now how were you be able to extract Jesus' statement from all what YHWH gave?

The message was transmitted by SIGNS and there was dialogue between Jesus and John, John and several Angels. The Context helps in identifying who was speaking.

Emusan:


While on Earth He prayed to the Father because He needed the help of the Father if the need arises in heaven He will do so.

Will an Almighty God need the HELP of SOMEONE who is the ONLY BEING who can HELP HIM?

Because I can't Picture THe Father doing that!

Emusan:


I must expose the lies your organization is propagating
The bolded part contradicting Watchtower because according to Watchtower only JW is a true follower of Yahweh so other Christian denomination are false according to JW, so what can you say about that?

I don't see any bold part!

I respect other peoples Faith in as much as I believe there is ONLY ONE TRUE FAITH. So what is the problem about.

Emusan:


Tell me my points that are not relevant here...
The bone of my contention is YOU FIRST WRONGLY APPLY Heb 1:9 to mean Jesus has fellows [b]which can't make Him to be God, and I went ahead to tell you that the companions there wasn't about His DIVINTY (Beside JW always used Heb 1:9 to prove Jesus to be Angel Michael because according to they were both Angel) and I referred you to Hebrew 2 to see who are these companions.[/b]

At bold section, You have consistently got me wrong- I am not questioning Jesus being a God but him being Almighty God. So I am questioning The possibility of An Almighty God having Fellows/Companions?

Hebrew 2 verse What? I might have missed it in the past- I am sorry if that was the case.

Don't assume again and again that JW says this and that. I have not raised anything about Jesus being an Angel here- so don't speculate. Teach me without the prejudice you have for my Faith.

Emusan:


Can you see your life? what you create is not you but what you beget is you, So Jesus cannot be begotten through creation.
How does the Father begot Jesus?
Then who says Jesus is the Father?

Jesus is NOT the Father is a FACT- So you defination of beget does not HOLD. Jesus was created so he is not the Father. The Father begot Jesus because "He gave him life".

Oxford dictionary Says;

Beget (V): 1. To Father a Child (NB: Father not the Same as Child like you claimed)
2. To CAUSE ( which is closely synonymous to CREATE- The Father has NO CAUSE- That is a FACT)

Emusan:


Even believers are also called sons of God, what does that mean?

It means believers are "adopted" sons of God- they are never Almighty God themselves like Their Father. Point me to any Father and Son who are the same? Now tell me Why is Jesus called "Son of the Most High and NOT the Most high himself"

Emusan:


Nigeria has only one superior ruler which is THE PRESIDENT, now YOU'VE ALREADY SAID Jesus is A SUPERIOR GOD can you see how confuse you are? I know you will come with another excuse.

STOP twisting my WORDS, I said Jesus is a superior God when compared to Angels, Satan and Man- other beings that are called Gods too. That does not mean he does not have a Superior God (YHWH) he answers to. Jesus is more like a Vice President with YHWH as the President.

RikoduoSennin:

Coming to do What exactly? Inspect God's Temple or Judge mankind etc ?

Compare these two statement
"...who is to come" Rev 1:8 and "...Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!" Rev 22:20

So the person who is coming is the Almighty God.

No the Point is Jesus is a Mighty God (Divine being) and The Father is Almighty God (also a Divine being) Just like Angels, Satan and Man are also Divine beings/Gods.

The Father just happens to be at the end of a very long chain of Divine beings.

Just SMH for you...you keep twisting your on word...if everything is DIVINE why would God put ALL THE FULLNESS OF DIVINITY on Jesus again and what are these FULLNESS?

The message was transmitted by SIGNS and there was dialogue between Jesus and John, John and several Angels. The Context helps in identifying who was speaking.

So who is coming according to the context of that verse 8 remember verse 7 has already put everything to be Jesus "Behold, [size=14pt]he is coming with the clouds,[/size] and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him"

Will an Almighty God need the HELP of SOMEONE who is the ONLY BEING who can HELP HIM?
Because I can't Picture THe Father doing that!

Then why do you claimed that the same Almighty God needed the help of a created being(Jesus) to create the creations?
From beginning I've said JESUS HAS ALREADY surrendered everything to His Father so He didn't come to Earth as God instead as a HUMBLE SERVANT. Phil 2:6-7

I don't see any bold part!
I respect other peoples Faith in as much as I believe there is ONLY ONE TRUE FAITH. So what is the problem about.

Like I respect other people's faith too

At bold section, You have consistently got me wrong- I am not questioning Jesus being a God but him being Almighty God. So I am questioning The possibility of An Almighty God having Fellows/Companions?

I repeat you're using Heb 1:9 against Jesus being the Almighty God YET you don't know who are Jesus' fellows

Hebrew 2 verse What? I might have missed it in the past- I am sorry if that was the case.

Can you see yourself now
read the whole chapter.

Don't assume again and again that JW says this and that. I have not raised anything about Jesus being an Angel here- so don't speculate. Teach me without the prejudice you have for my Faith.

Do you know the meaning of speculate?
@bolded-Am I just assuming or I'm saying the fact?

Jesus is NOT the Father is a FACT- So your defination of beget does not HOLD. Jesus was created so he is not the Father. The Father begot Jesus because "He gave him life".
Oxford dictionary Says;
Beget (V): 1. To Father a Child (NB: Father not the Same as Child like you claimed)
2. To CAUSE ( which is closely synonymous to CREATE- The Father has NO CAUSE- That is a FACT)

SMH once again, THANK GOD it didn't say CREATE (but only synonymous to CREATE as your own view to prove your point) then how can Jesus be both created and begotten?
If given Jesus LIFE by the Father that made Him begotten then Adam also can be called the begotten but is this true?

It means believers are "adopted" sons of God- they are never Almighty God themselves like Their Father. Point me to any Father and Son who are the same? Now tell me Why is Jesus called "Son of the Most High and NOT the Most high himself"

Then if believers are adopted Sons then do you think calling Adam and Angels Sons have the same meaning like Jesus Sonship?
Both human father and son are the same in NATURE but different AUTHORITY,
Jesus is the Son of God that HAS THE SAME NATURE WITH HIS FATHER both are UNCREATED & EVERLASTING

STOP twisting my WORDS, [size=14pt]I said Jesus is a superior God when compared to Angels, Satan and Man- other beings that are called Gods too.[/size] That does not mean he does not have a Superior God (YHWH) he answers to. Jesus is more like a Vice President with YHWH as the President.

You keep twisting your own word just because you're confused thinking I'm the one twisting your word.

How many SUPERIOR GOD you have is what I asked you?
And you replied "Only one, The ONLY TRUE GOD- Jehovah The Almighty..."
Which you later try to relate with Nigeria government Yet we have only one PRESIDENT and others Titles Not One is the PRESIDENT and another one is the PRESIDENT but not like the other one.

So Jesus can't be SUPERIOR GOD and The Father will also be SUPERIOR God.

You're so confused to also think that Angels are SUPERIOR GOD which doesn't have any support in the scriptures.

Emusan:


Compare these two statement
"...who is to come" Rev 1:8 and "...Surely I am coming soon." Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!" Rev 22:20

So the person who is coming is the Almighty God.

Jesus Coming is different from the Almighty God coming as regards PURPOSE. What is their purpose of Coming is the difference.

Emusan:

Just SMH for you...you keep twisting your on word...if everything is DIVINE why would God put ALL THE FULLNESS OF DIVINITY on Jesus again and what are these FULLNESS?

Here yourself- "God put all the fullness of Divinity on Jesus". Someone put! That someone is God Almighty.

[quote author=Emusan post=30602384]
So who is coming according to the context of that verse 8 remember verse 7 has already put everything to be Jesus "Behold, [size=14pt]he is coming with the clouds,[/size] and every eye will see him, every one who pierced him"

Did you see Verse 4: "John to the seven churches that are in Asia": and Verse 9 "I John, your brother...." Verse 8 is seperated from both verses- the one preceding it and succeeding it. It was an expression made by someone other than John - Jesus does not have qualities only an Almighty being could have.

---He has a personal superior God who is head over him.

---He does not know everything nor is he the Highest authority.

---He has a CAUSE, he is not self existing.

Emusan:

Then why do you claimed that the same Almighty God needed the help of a created being(Jesus) to create the creations?
From beginning I've said JESUS HAS ALREADY surrendered everything to His Father so He didn't come to Earth as God instead as a HUMBLE SERVANT. Phil 2:6-7

I did not claim such. I said the Almighty God used his Servant/Master Worker Jesus to create every other things. He create without Jesus but HE CHOSE TO USE Jesus, its not the same as needing Jesus help.



So when Jesus got to Heaven and received his Glory back he still CLAIM TO HAVE A PERSONAL GOD- Revelation 3:2,12. That says a lot don't you think?

Emusan:

I repeat you're using Heb 1:9 against Jesus being the Almighty God YET you don't know who are Jesus' fellows

And who told you that I don't know who is fellows are? Speculations and assumptions.

Emusan:

Can you see yourself now
read the whole chapter.

Ok, Hebrew 2:5,8 "For it was not to angels that GOD subjected the world to come...putting everything under his (Jesus) feet". Q: Who put everything under Jesus feet? A: God Q: How is Jesus the same person as the one who subject everything under is feet? A: He is not.

Hebrew 2:11 "For he who sanctifies and THOSE WHO ARE SANCTIFIED HAVE ALL ONE ORIGIN that is why he is not ashamed to call them BRETHREN" - (they have the same Father).



Hebrew 2:13 "Here I am, and the Children GOD has given me

Hebrew 2: 17 "Therefore he had to be made like his brethren in every respect so that he MIGHT BECOME a merciful and FAITHFUL high Priest IN THE SERVICE OF GOD"

Emusan:

SMH once again, THANK GOD it didn't say CREATE (but only synonymous to CREATE as your own view to prove your point) then how can Jesus be both created and begotten?
If given Jesus LIFE by the Father that made Him begotten then Adam also can be called the begotten but is this true?

Beget means CAUSE which in turn means MAKE HAPPEN. Jesus has a cause.

You can't compare Adam to Jesus because Jesus is the "ONLY" begotten SON OF GOD- Emphasis on "only" not begotten nor son of God. Why, because God/YHWH made Jesus and Jesus in turn made Adam.(NB: Adam was called Son of God because he was Made by God- he has no earthly Father, Same thing apply to the Angels- Why was Jesus called "SON"

Emusan:

Then if believers are adopted Sons then do you think calling Adam and Angels Sons have the same meaning like Jesus Sonship?
Both human father and son are the same in NATURE but different AUTHORITY,
Jesus is the Son of God that HAS THE SAME NATURE WITH HIS FATHER both are UNCREATED & EVERLASTING

I well know that there are DIFFERENT SONSHIP, what is not different is WHY THEY ARE CALLED SONS. Man, Angels and Jesus are called SONS because they are all created!!!

Are can Jesus be SON of God and still the "Same" God again.


Adopted Sons-Christians will have a share in that Nature someday- will they be transform to God Almighty then?

2 Peter 1:3,4 "His DIVINE POWER has granted to us all things that pertains to life and godliness through the knowledge of him who called us to HIS OWN GLORY AND EXCELLENCE by which he has granted us his precious and great promises that through these you may escape from corruption that is in the world because of passion and become PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE".

Emusan:

You keep twisting your own word just because you're confused thinking I'm the one twisting your word.

How many SUPERIOR GOD you have is what I asked you?
And you replied "Only one, The ONLY TRUE GOD- Jehovah The Almighty..."
Which you later try to relate with Nigeria government Yet we have only one PRESIDENT and others Titles Not One is the PRESIDENT and another one is the PRESIDENT but not like the other one.

So Jesus can't be SUPERIOR GOD and The Father will also be SUPERIOR God.

You're so confused to also think that Angels are SUPERIOR GOD which doesn't have any support in the scriptures.

Its a shame that you don't understand my illustration.

In simple terms, Here is the hierachy;

| YHWH/The Father - Almighty God

| Jesus/The Son- Mighty God

| Angels//// Satan

| Man

PS: Angels are called Gods and are superior to Man. Hebrew 2:6,7,9.

RikoduoSennin:
Jesus Coming is different from the Almighty God coming as regards PURPOSE. What is their purpose of Coming is the difference.

Lol you've resulted to another thing JESUS' coming is DIFFERENT from the Almighty God...this your drama eh
So what is the Almighty God coming to do after Jesus has come? Support your point with scripture

Here yourself- "God put all the fullness of Divinity on Jesus". Someone put! That someone is God Almighty.

You just find away of dancing around and boycotting the main point. My question is why will Almighty God PUT ALL the FULLNESS of DIVINTY on Jesus when YOU CLAIMED THAT everything is DIVINE?

Did you see Verse 4: "John to the seven churches that are in Asia": and Verse 9 "I John, your brother...." Verse 8 is seperated from both verses- the one preceding it and succeeding it. It was an expression made by someone other than John - Jesus does not have qualities only an Almighty being could have.

Baseless point, you lack coherency while debating. Now see where you short yourself in the legs. You said and I quote [b]"Did you see Verse 4: "John to the seven churches that are in Asia": and Verse 9 "I John, your brother...." Verse 8 is seperated from both verses- [size=14pt]the one preceding it and succeeding it.[/size]

As "to the seven churches in Asia in verse 4" and the person who made this statement identified Himself 11 `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.' [size=14pt]12 And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me...'"[/size]

Why would verse 8 be separated from the verse 7 which is still talking about the same even?

---He has a personal superior God who is head over him.

And He Himself is a SUPERIOR GOD...confused fellow

---He does not know everything nor is he the Highest authority.

He knows all thing and nobody says He is the Highest Authority

---He has a CAUSE, he is not self existing.

You always boycott this question and I will ask it here again but if you didn't answer it then forget my reply
[b]How can ETERNAL/EVARLASTING LIFE be created?...Jesus is LIFE HIMSELF

I did not claim such. I said the Almighty God used his Servant/Master Worker Jesus to create every other things. [size=14pt]He create without Jesus[/size] but HE CHOSE TO USE Jesus, its not the same as needing Jesus help.

@bolded-see how you're calling God a liar the Bible says "...Nothing was created without Jesus..." but to propagate your false teaching you make this blatant lie...SMH

You did as you repeated it here HOW CAN Almighty God CHOSE to use a CREATED BEING when He can do it on His own?

So when Jesus got to Heaven and received his Glory back he still CLAIM TO HAVE A PERSONAL GOD- Revelation 3:2,12. That says a lot don't you think?

For the last time Jesus still possess His HUMANITY now in heaven...so He can still call the Father His God But when the time come when The Son shall hand over the kingdom to His Father "and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all." 1 Corin 15:28 YLT

I know JWs used this verse to disprove Jesus being God without even fully understand it @underlined says it all.

And who told you that I don't know who is fellows are? Speculations and assumptions.

You don't if not you won't ask that question

Ok, Hebrew 2:5,8 "For it was not to angels that GOD subjected the world to come...putting everything under his (Jesus) feet". Q: Who put everything under Jesus feet? A: God Q: How is Jesus the same person as the one who subject everything under is feet? A: He is not.

For the last time Jesus is not the Father

Hebrew 2:11 "For he who sanctifies and THOSE WHO ARE SANCTIFIED HAVE ALL ONE ORIGIN that is why he is not ashamed to call them BRETHREN" - (they have the same Father).

Then is God our Father the way He was Jesus' Father?

Hebrew 2:13 "Here I am, and the Children GOD has given me
Hebrew 2: 17 [size=14pt]"Therefore he had to be made like his brethren in every respect[/size] so that he MIGHT BECOME a merciful and FAITHFUL high Priest IN THE SERVICE OF GOD"

The major part you ignored is the bolded part.
@bolded & underlined-you can see that the Author of the Hebrew was talking about Jesus taking up man NATURE which made Him to be our fellows/companions

Beget means CAUSE which in turn means MAKE HAPPEN. Jesus has a cause.

Do you mean God created His own power?

You can't compare Adam to Jesus because Jesus is the "ONLY" begotten SON OF GOD- Emphasis on "only" not begotten nor son of God. Why, because God/YHWH made Jesus and Jesus in turn made Adam.(NB: Adam was called Son of God because he was Made by God- he has no earthly Father, Same thing apply to the Angels- Why was Jesus called "SON"wink

See your life if God made Jesus and Jesus was called the Son of God and Jesus made Adam then Adam should be called the Son of Jesus not God again

See this contradiction @underlined in your own statement "because God/YHWH made Jesus and Jesus in turn made Adam. (NB: Adam was called Son of God because he(Adam) was Made by God..." Is it Jesus who made Adam or God?

Finally, You used beget to mean CAUSE but later said Jesus is the ONLY begotten, if BEGET means TO CAUSE/CREATE according to you and ALL BEING were CAUSE/CREATE then Jesus can't be the ONLY begotten. This dismiss your application of the word BEGET...do more research on how God beget Jesus.

I well know that there are DIFFERENT SONSHIP, what is not different is WHY THEY ARE CALLED SONS. Man, Angels and Jesus are called SONS because they are all created!!!

So you know and you can still say Jesus is the ONLY begotten/cause/create and if you claim that God created Jesus first and used Jesus to create other then both Angels and man are not the son of God but son of Jesus

Are (How) can Jesus be SON of God and still the "Same" God again.

Why simple English is hard for you? Jesus is not the same as the Father

-Adam is man
-Eve is also man before the fall
Is Eve the same with Adam? No! But they were both called MAN?

Adopted Sons-Christians will have a share in that Nature someday- will they be transform to God Almighty then?

2 Peter 1:3,4 "His DIVINE POWER has granted to us all things that pertains to life and godliness through the knowledge of him who called us to HIS OWN GLORY AND EXCELLENCE by which he has granted us his precious and great promises that through these you may escape from corruption that is in the world because of passion and become PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE".

Kai...SMH, Man has a corrupted NATURE through sin, Jesus came by taking on this same corrupted NATURE but the same NATURE was conquered and setting example of glorious transformation of this corrupted NATURE to INCORRUPTIBLE NATURE we are not taking the NATURE Jesus possessed before He took on FLESH but the NATURE He possessed after He conquered our sinful NATURE.

Its a shame that you don't understand my illustration.

In simple terms, Here is the hierachy;

| YHWH/The Father - Almighty God

| Jesus/The Son- Mighty God

| Angels//// Satan

| Man

PS: Angels are called Gods and are superior to Man. Hebrew 2:6,7,9.

Going back to your previous statement, Nigeria has only one President. the President can't be the VP and the VP can't be the president.
So to you Jesus is a Superior God and The Father is also a SUPERIOR God, How many SUPERIOR GOD do you have?

Again from the above, The Father is Almighty God and Jesus is Mighty God but according to the scripture The Father is also Mighty God. How come? Can someone be the President and at the same time V.President?

Emusan:


Lol you've resulted to another thing JESUS' coming is DIFFERENT from the Almighty God...this your drama eh
So what is the Almighty God coming to do after Jesus has come? Support your point with scripture

Isaiah 26:21 "For behold, The LORD is coming forth out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the Earth for their iniquity and the Earth will disclose the blood shed upon her and will no more cover her slain"

Emusan:

You just find away of dancing around and boycotting the main point. My question is why will Almighty God PUT ALL the FULLNESS of DIVINTY on Jesus when YOU CLAIMED THAT everything is DIVINE?

There are different levels of Divinity- gods, God, Mighty God and Almighty God.

Emusan:

Baseless point, you lack coherency while debating. Now see where you short yourself in the legs. You said and I quote [b]"Did you see Verse 4: "John to the seven churches that are in Asia": and Verse 9 "I John, your brother...." Verse 8 is seperated from both verses- [size=14pt]the one preceding it and succeeding it.[/size]

As "to the seven churches in Asia in verse 4" and the person who made this statement identified Himself [b]11 `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;' and, `What thou dost see, write in a scroll, and send to the seven assemblies that are in Asia; to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamos, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.' [size=14pt]12 And I did turn to see the voice that did speak with me...'"[/size]

Why would verse 8 be separated from the verse 7 which is still talking about the same even?

Was it the person who made the statement of Verse 7 that made the statement of Verse 8? If so how is that?

Emusan:

And He Himself is a SUPERIOR GOD...confused fellow

I Am Not confused, you misunderstood me. Jesus is a superior God to man but an inferior God to OUR GOD and HIS GOD- The Father hence he can't be an ALMIGHTY GOD.

Man has so many superiors since we are the lest of God's intelligent creatures, but one one superior God counts/matters- The one called Almighty/ the only true God.

Emusan:

He knows all thing and nobody says He is the Highest Authority

Wrong mon ami! Jesus does not know the day of his coming- True or False.

Someone who does not have the "Highest Authority" can not be called "ALMIGHTY" can he?

Emusan:

You always boycott this question and I will ask it here again but if you didn't answer it then forget my reply
How can ETERNAL/EVARLASTING LIFE be created?...Jesus is LIFE HIMSELF

No, JESUS WAS "GRANTED" LIFE(John 5:26). ETERNAL LIFE you said- do beings with Eternal life die? Did Jesus die? You see where I am going.

Emusan:

@bolded-see how you're calling God a liar the Bible says "...Nothing was created without Jesus..." but to propagate your false teaching you make this blatant lie...SMH

Yes, Nothing else was created without Jesus except Jesus himself. When you read the Passage, you get the sense that the scriptures was referring to creation after Jesus' existence.

Emusan:

You did as you repeated it here. HOW CAN Almighty God CHOSE to use a CREATED BEING when He can do it on His own?

Just as he chose to use angels in his dealings with man. God chose to use his son to create everything you see today. He delegates duties as he sees fit.

Emusan:

For the last time Jesus still possess His HUMANITY now in heaven...so He can still call the Father His God But when the time come when The Son shall hand over the kingdom to His Father "and when the all things may be subjected to him, then the Son also himself shall be subject to Him, who did subject to him the all things, that God may be the all in all." 1 Corin 15:28 YLT

I know JWs used this verse to disprove Jesus being God without even fully understand it @underlined says it all.

HUMANITY IN HEAVEN? Do you mean to say that although Jesus is NOW a God in Heaven he still has his own PERSONAL GOD?

NB: Jesus HANDS OVER RULERSHIP TO << THE FATHER.
Jesus will SUBJECT HIMSELF TO "THE ONE"// THE EXCEPTION TO JESUS SUBJECT (Verse 27).
By the time Jesus subjects himself and everything subjected to him to THE FATHER// THEN "THE FATHER" BECOME SOVEREIGN TO ALL.

See how you use YLT when it serves you. Read that Same passage from KJV/NKJV/NEV/RSV and see what that last phrase REALLY MEANT.

Emusan:

For the last time Jesus is not the Father

The Jews believe YHWH=The Father
You believe YHWH = Jesus, what then do you want me to conclude?

If Jesus is not the SAME as the Father, please HOW are they equal to ONE ALMIGHTY GOD? Is YHWH =3 Fission copies (i.e The Father, The Son and Holy Spirit)

Emusan:

Then is God our Father the way He was Jesus' Father?

Jesus is God/YHWH "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" seeing as he was personally involved in Jesus' existence. But he is our Father in that our life force ORIGINATES from him, anointed Christians we become ADOPTED SONS/ SPIRIT SONS to God/YHWH.

Emusan:

The major part you ignored is the bolded part.
@bolded & underlined-you can see that the Author of the Hebrew was talking about Jesus taking up man NATURE which made Him to be our fellows/companions

Emusan:

Do you mean God created His own power?

Is Jesus Literally God's POWER? Because you question does not apply if it were in a figurative sense. (Please provided a scripture reference to Jesus being the Power of God)

Emusan:

See your life if God made Jesus and Jesus was called the Son of God and Jesus made Adam then Adam should be called the Son of Jesus not God again

It was the will of Jesus' maker (YHWH) that Adam be made, hence credit goes to him- Adam, Son of God. If Adam was called "son of Jesus"- glory will go to Jesus, and that would have been equal to the sin of Moses.(NB: Jesus did nothing of his own originality/accord- John 5:19)

Emusan:



Finally, You used beget to mean CAUSE but later said Jesus is the ONLY begotten, if BEGET means TO CAUSE/CREATE according to you and ALL BEING were CAUSE/CREATE[b] then Jesus can't be the ONLY begotten. [/b] This dismiss your application of the word BEGET...do more research on how God beget Jesus.

@bold section, That is why the complete statement is "Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD"- meaning Jesus is the Only being directly CAUSED/CREATE by GOD/YHWH himself as every other thing in heaven and Earth was made "Through" Jesus christ.

Emusan:






-Adam is man
-Eve is also man before the fall
Is Eve the same with Adam? No! But they were both called MAN?

Does that make them equal or share the same authority? Or originate the same time? Woman came from Man not the other way round.

Emusan:

Kai...SMH, Man has a corrupted NATURE through sin, Jesus came by taking on this same corrupted NATURE but the same NATURE was conquered and setting example of glorious transformation of this corrupted NATURE to INCORRUPTIBLE NATURE we are not taking the NATURE Jesus possessed before He took on FLESH but the NATURE He possessed after He conquered our sinful NATURE.

Any scripture to back that up because what is written there in 2 Peter 1:4 is DIVINE NATURE not Jesus sinless Nature or is there a different meaning of DIVINE NATURE depending on whom you are referred to ?

Because if you see Divine nature and Jesus you scream "Jesus is God" but when you see same with Humans, you say its represent "Jesus sinless nature"

Emusan:

Going back to your previous statement, Nigeria has only one President. the President can't be the VP and the VP can't be the president.
So to you Jesus is a Superior God and The Father is also a SUPERIOR God, How many SUPERIOR GOD do you have?

ONE- THE ONLY TRUE GOD/YHWH/The Father of ALL, Jesus is just his subordinate, a mediator I must pass through to get access to The Almighty.

Emusan:

Again from the above, The Father is Almighty God and Jesus is Mighty God but according to the scripture The Father is also Mighty God. How come? Can someone be the President and at the same time V.President?

Is it wrong to Call a Professor the following titles Bachelor degree holder, Masters degree holder, Doctors degree holder?

What about calling someone who stopped at Masters degree program a Doctor degree holder?

Yes The Father is called both Mighty and Almighty (Most High) as well as other titles, but Jesus is called a Mighty God ONLY- he is not the MOST HIGH/ ALMIGHTY- he lack the credentials.

JMAN05:


Proof that bold face scripturally. Thanks for accepting they represented YHWH.

I have a question for you.
if your name is John and you have a son and you call him john foes that mean he doesn't bear the name but he just represents you?
Thhere is a difference between bearing a name and representing a name. from the above scriptures that have been quoted Jesus bears the name YAHWEH not only representing the name . just as a man's son can bear his name and still represent his name.

RikoduoSennin:
Isaiah 26:21 "For behold, The LORD is coming forth out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the Earth for their iniquity and the Earth will disclose the blood shed upon her and will no more cover her slain"

The essence of you quoting this verse is to show that YHWH's coming is different from Jesus' coming but can you see the bolded part? So who will actually do the underlined statement? If it is YHWH what is the purpose of Jesus second coming?

There are different levels of Divinity- gods, God, Mighty God and Almighty God.

SMH...you just decided to wallowing in your deceptions.
The verse read "ALL the FULLNESS..." beside I'm just looking at the way you dancing around because what actually appeared in that verse is GODHEAD

"For in Christ the Godhead in all its fulness dwells incarnate;" TCNT
"For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily," WEB
"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." KJV
"for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" ASV
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" NIV

Did you ask yourself why ONLY JWs change the Godhead to DIVINE QUALITY?

Was it the person who made the statement of Verse 7 that made the statement of Verse 8? If so how is that?

How is that just continue to fool yourself you're asking when you suppose to provide a tangible reason while verse 7 & 8 are different person.

I Am Not confused, you misunderstood me. Jesus is a superior God to man but an inferior God to OUR GOD and HIS GOD- The Father hence he can't be an ALMIGHTY GOD.

You are only if you can begin to compare all your post here with each other then you will surely see it.

I didn't misunderstand you mr man, Jesus is a SUPERIOR GOD to YOU and INFERIOR TO GOD according to you but at the same time THE FATHER IS A SUPERIOR God, so if Jesus is superior to YOU and at the same time the Father is SUPERIOR then HOW MANY SUPERIOR GOD do you have? logically your answer is two yet you're proving smart after you've shot yourself in the legs.

[size=14pt]Man has so many superiors[/size] since we are the lest of God's intelligent creatures, but one one superior God counts/matters- The one called Almighty/ the only true God.

The underlined statement is enough for people to see how dubious you are, YOUR STATEMENT supposed to read like "Man has so many superiors GODs as you've been claiming since but you purposely remove God so that it'll look as if you only mean many superiority being AND YOU CONCLUDED with "but one superior God counts/matters- The one called Almighty/ the only true God. Seriously SMH

Wrong mon ami! Jesus does not know the day of his coming- True or False.

Someone who does not have the "Highest Authority" can not be called "ALMIGHTY" can he?

So because Jesus said He didn't know the day of His coming it means He doesn't know everything hmmmm I know you must have misunderstood that statement of Jesus again.

Please show me where Almighty means Highest Authority

No, JESUS WAS "GRANTED" LIFE(John 5:26). ETERNAL LIFE you said- do beings with Eternal life die? Did Jesus die? You see where I am going.

Olodo in the highest order is what you are, many times you've been told that Jesus possessed TWO NATURE yet can still be talking ignorantly that Jesus die. Is Jesus not an ETERNAL/EVERLASTING LIFE? now if you claimed an ETERNAL life died then what is the purpose of being ETERNAL?

Yes, Nothing else was created without Jesus except Jesus himself. When you read the Passage, you get the sense that the scriptures was referring to creation after Jesus' existence.

After the bolded you can still spew the last rubbish you need to get sense mr.

Just as he chose to use angels in his dealings with man. God chose to use his son to create everything you see today. He delegates duties as he sees fit.

And you think this same God can not chose to seek help from His Father while on earth

HUMANITY IN HEAVEN? Do you mean to say that although Jesus is NOW a God in Heaven he still has his own PERSONAL GOD?

Is Jesus NOW God in heaven or He always God since beginning?

NB: Jesus HANDS OVER RULERSHIP TO << THE FATHER.
Jesus will SUBJECT HIMSELF TO "THE ONE"// THE EXCEPTION TO JESUS SUBJECT (Verse 27).
By the time Jesus subjects himself and everything subjected to him to THE FATHER// THEN "THE FATHER" BECOME SOVEREIGN TO ALL.
See how you use YLT when it serves you. Read that Same passage from KJV/NKJV/NEV/RSV and see what that last phrase REALLY MEANT.

So you mean the Father is not yet SOVEREIGN to all now? I will see how you clean yourself from all these mess you're putting yourself into.

You accused me of using YLT but see KJV "... that God may be all in all." now tell me the different between them.

The Jews believe YHWH=The Father
You believe YHWH = Jesus, what then do you want me to conclude?

If Jesus is not the SAME as the Father, please HOW are they equal to ONE ALMIGHTY GOD? Is YHWH =3 Fission copies (i.e The Father, The Son and Holy Spirit)

GODHEAD=YHWH and they're three being in the Godhead. I believe you will get out of your confusion now.

Jesus is God/YHWH "ONLY BEGOTTEN SON" seeing as he was personally involved in Jesus' existence. But he is our Father in that our life force ORIGINATES from him, anointed Christians we become ADOPTED SONS/ SPIRIT SONS to God/YHWH.

YOUR life force ORIGINATED FROM YHWH or Jesus remember Jesus is the one who created you?
So who actually breath into Adam YHWH or Jesus? If it is Jesus why would Almighty God used A CREATED being to IMPACT life?
You always like to use the JEWS please give me one JEWS who believed someone else helped YHWH in creation (I mean the JEWS who read only the HEBREW SCRIPTURE).

Is Jesus Literally God's POWER? Because you question does not apply if it were in a figurative sense. (Please provided a scripture reference to Jesus being the Power of God)

father of figurative anytime it dances to their side.
Jesus is the power of God according to the Bible, am I lying?
Please show me where the Bible also said Jesus is a figurative power of God

It was the will of Jesus' maker (YHWH) that Adam be made, hence credit goes to him- Adam, Son of God. If Adam was called "son of Jesus"- glory will go to Jesus, and that would have been equal to the sin of Moses.(NB: Jesus did nothing of his own originality/accord- John 5:19)

So what is the glory that Jesus had with the Father before the world was made if this glory can not be given to Jesus?
Who actually carried out Gen 2:7 YHWH or Jesus?

@bold section, That is why the complete statement is "Jesus the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD"- meaning Jesus is the Only being directly CAUSED/CREATE by GOD/YHWH himself as every other thing in heaven and Earth was made "Through" Jesus christ.

And since Jesus was the only one directly created by God and called ONLT Son of God and the rest were directly created by JESUS then we should be called Son of Jesus.
because I don't see how ONLY will mean DIRECTLY CREATED if not for your erroneous teaching.

Does that make them equal or share the same authority? Or originate the same time? Woman came from Man not the other way round.

They were EQUAL IN NATURE that's why they share the same name but not the same authority.
Lol...woman came from man...and you think this prove Jesus' eternity wrong.
This is a simple logic...which means Eve is already being in Adam's body since the day Adam was created BUT WAS ONLY BROUGHT FORTH TO PHYSICAL REALM (if it is Adam that supposed to perform the action Adam WILL ONLY BRING EVE OUT OF HIMSELF--not creation) so likewise Jesus has always existed with the Father from ETERNITY but was brought forth (BEGET) AT A SPECFICE PERIOD to performed some specific task...WHAT YOU CREATE is not YOU but WHAT YOU BEGET(BROUGHT FORTH) IS YOU

This is the main POINT you've mixed up since.

Any scripture to back that up because what is written there in 2 Peter 1:4 is DIVINE NATURE not Jesus sinless Nature or is there a different meaning of DIVINE NATURE depending on whom you are referred to ?

Is it not the nature that Jesus possessed AFTER HIS resurrection Bible is talking about?
Was Jesus resurrected with another BODY?

Because if you see Divine nature and Jesus you scream "Jesus is God" but when you see same with Humans, you say its represent "Jesus sinless nature"

Answer the question above

ONE- THE ONLY TRUE GOD/YHWH/The Father of ALL, Jesus is just his subordinate, a mediator I must pass through to get access to The Almighty.

Is Jesus a SUPERIOR GOD to you? If yes, why will you have only Father as your superior God?

Is it wrong to Call a Professor the following titles Bachelor degree holder, Masters degree holder, Doctors degree holder?

What about calling someone who stopped at Masters degree program a Doctor degree holder?

Yes The Father is called both Mighty and Almighty (Most High) as well as other titles, but Jesus is called a Mighty God ONLY- he is not the MOST HIGH/ ALMIGHTY- he lack the credentials.

Another confuse illustration, from Nigeria to professor.

oprajo:

I have a question for you.
if your name is John and you have a son and you call him john foes that mean he doesn't bear the name but he just represents you?
Thhere is a difference between bearing a name and representing a name. from the above scriptures that have been quoted Jesus bears the name YAHWEH not only representing the name . just as a man's son can bear his name and still represent his name.

Nope. But if you call a house john, will it answer another name?

2. Do u believe that some names are allegory of something?

Carefully read our discussion. If what is there doesnt satisfy you, let it slide.

Emusan:


The essence of you quoting this verse is to show that YHWH's coming is different from Jesus' coming but can you see the bolded part? So who will actually do the underlined statement? If it is YHWH what is the purpose of Jesus second coming?



SMH...you just decided to wallowing in your deceptions.
The verse read "ALL the FULLNESS..." beside I'm just looking at the way you dancing around because what actually appeared in that verse is GODHEAD

"For in Christ the Godhead in all its fulness dwells incarnate;" TCNT
"For in him all the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily," WEB
"For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." KJV
"for in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily" ASV
"For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form" NIV

Did you ask yourself why ONLY JWs change the Godhead to DIVINE QUALITY?



How is that just continue to fool yourself you're asking when you suppose to provide a tangible reason while verse 7 & 8 are different person.



You are only if you can begin to compare all your post here with each other then you will surely see it.

I didn't misunderstand you mr man, Jesus is a SUPERIOR GOD to YOU and INFERIOR TO GOD according to you but at the same time THE FATHER IS A SUPERIOR God, so if Jesus is superior to YOU and at the same time the Father is SUPERIOR then HOW MANY SUPERIOR GOD do you have? logically your answer is two yet you're proving smart after you've shot yourself in the legs.



The underlined statement is enough for people to see how dubious you are, YOUR STATEMENT supposed to read like "Man has so many superiors GODs as you've been claiming since but you purposely remove God so that it'll look as if you only mean many superiority being AND YOU CONCLUDED with "but one superior God counts/matters- The one called Almighty/ the only true God. Seriously SMH



So because Jesus said He didn't know the day of His coming it means He doesn't know everything hmmmm I know you must have misunderstood that statement of Jesus again.

Please show me where Almighty means Highest Authority



Olodo in the highest order is what you are, many times you've been told that Jesus possessed TWO NATURE yet can still be talking ignorantly that Jesus die. Is Jesus not an ETERNAL/EVERLASTING LIFE? now if you claimed an ETERNAL life died then what is the purpose of being ETERNAL?



After the bolded you can still spew the last rubbish you need to get sense mr.



And you think this same God can not chose to seek help from His Father while on earth



Is Jesus NOW God in heaven or He always God since beginning?



So you mean the Father is not yet SOVEREIGN to all now? I will see how you clean yourself from all these mess you're putting yourself into.

You accused me of using YLT but see KJV "... that God may be all in all." now tell me the different between them.



GODHEAD=YHWH and they're three being in the Godhead. I believe you will get out of your confusion now.



YOUR life force ORIGINATED FROM YHWH or Jesus remember Jesus is the one who created you?
So who actually breath into Adam YHWH or Jesus? If it is Jesus why would Almighty God used A CREATED being to IMPACT life?
You always like to use the JEWS please give me one JEWS who believed someone else helped YHWH in creation (I mean the JEWS who read only the HEBREW SCRIPTURE).



father of figurative anytime it dances to their side.
Jesus is the power of God according to the Bible, am I lying?
Please show me where the Bible also said Jesus is a figurative power of God



So what is the glory that Jesus had with the Father before the world was made if this glory can not be given to Jesus?
Who actually carried out Gen 2:7 YHWH or Jesus?



And since Jesus was the only one directly created by God and called ONLT Son of God and the rest were directly created by JESUS then we should be called Son of Jesus.
because I don't see how ONLY will mean DIRECTLY CREATED if not for your erroneous teaching.



They were EQUAL IN NATURE that's why they share the same name but not the same authority.

Lol...woman came from man...and you think this prove Jesus' eternity wrong.
This is a simple logic...which means Eve is already being in Adam's body since the day Adam was created BUT WAS ONLY BROUGHT FORTH TO PHYSICAL REALM (if it is Adam that supposed to perform the action Adam WILL ONLY BRING EVE OUT OF HIMSELF--not creation) so likewise Jesus has always existed with the Father from ETERNITY but was brought forth (BEGET) AT A SPECFICE PERIOD to performed some specific task...WHAT YOU CREATE is not YOU but WHAT YOU BEGET(BROUGHT FORTH) IS YOU

This is the main POINT you've mixed up since.



Is it not the nature that Jesus possessed AFTER HIS resurrection Bible is talking about?
Was Jesus resurrected with another BODY?



Answer the question above



Is Jesus a SUPERIOR GOD to you? If yes, why will you have only Father as your superior God?



Another confuse illustration, from Nigeria to professor.

O boy, All this Christians won't cease to amaze me .

The Green caught my attention ,

- You mean Yeshua and Yahweh is father are equal in Nature ?

- Is Jesus Yahweh or a servant of Yahweh ?

Waiting for your response

Peacefullove:



O boy, All this Christians won't cease to amaze me .

The Green caught my attention ,

- You mean Yeshua and Yahweh is father are equal in Nature ?

- Is Jesus Yahweh or a servant of Yahweh ?

Waiting for your response

So you can quote my post and yet couldn't see it through that Jesus isn't the Father! But for Yahweh they both own that name.

The green part that caught your attention simply means, Jesus and His Father are of the same nature just like you and your dad are human being.

The nature of man if different from Animal.
The nature of Angel is different from that of man.
The nature of God is different from that of man and Angel.

Emusan:

So you can quote my post and yet couldn't see it through that Jesus isn't the Father! But for Yahweh they both own that name.

Really ?


" God also said to Moses, "Say this to the Israelites: Yahweh, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob , has sent me to you. This is My name forever; this is how I am to be remembered in every generation." Exodus 3 vs 15

Now the Above is how the name Yahweh is to be remembered for all generation's as the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ,Is Jesus the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob ?

The green part that caught your attention simply means, Jesus and His Father are of the same nature just like you and your dad are human being.

The nature of man if different from Animal.
The nature of Angel is different from that of man.
The nature of God is different from that of man and Angel.

Before we can know if they Are equal by nature or not . Some things need to be clarified

- How many nature did Jesus have?


~ How many nature does his Father have ?