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Stats: 2,212,702 members, 4,831,073 topics. Date: Sunday, 24 March 2019 at 02:12 AM
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by googi: 6:51pm On Dec 23, 2018|
Well, sometimes reasonable people do agree to disagree respectfully.
What is it that disqualified West Africa as part of the old world from being the original birth of Yoruba but new world far away full of hostile people that drove them away; is their original birth place.
I would have thought that the Oloko, Aromire and Tokunbo were great adventurers, traders and seamen that explored new world but never forgot their way back home.
Didn't Oduduwa present some three proofs to demonstrate that his people were originally from Ife?
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lawani: 7:29pm On Dec 23, 2018|
Olu317:I mean we are indigenous to West Africa by I believe over 70percent of our dna. The people that mixed with us were egyptians not hebrews
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 10:20pm On Dec 23, 2018|
Yes, you do have a strong case on disagreement amongst wise ones to agree based on mutual respect.
And as for the disqualification of West Africa as the birth place of the old world is basically on radio carbon and other facts such as fossil, habitation of these places even with claims that didn't pinned many ethnic groups to West Africa as their foundational birth place of origin.Even people who use genetic study through researches via dna which claimed Yoruba descendants have E3B and V12 male haplotypes, etc. Most Geneticist say that the haplogroup E3b (M35) seems to have come from East Africa but from there was carried to the Near East, then to North Africa and Europe. Today it is commonly found in such places as East and North Africa, and the Near East around the areas of the Mediterranean.(http://www.hebrewigbo.com/scientific.html) E3b - These were some of the first farmers who spread across the Mediterranean (http://noel.mcn.org/GeneticMigration.htm)
E-M215 and E-M35 are quite common among Afro-Asiatic speakers. The linguistic group and carriers of E-M35 lineage have a high probability to have arisen and dispersed together from the region of origin of this language family. Amongst populations with an Afro-Asiatic speaking history, a significant proportion of Jewish male lineages are E-M35. Haplogroup E-M35, which accounts for approximately 18% to 20% of Ashkenazi and 8.6% to 30% off Sephardi Y-chromosomes, appears to be one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M215_(Y-DNA)) V12 haplotype - E-V12 Found in Egypt, Sudan, and other places. Has an important subclade E-V32 which is very common among Ethiopian Oromo, Borana Oromo from Kenya and Somalis. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E-M215_(Y-DNA))
This sub-clade of E-M78 is the one which appears to have split from the others first (it arose ca. 13.7-15.2 kya. According to Cruciani et al. (2007), E-V12 likely originated in North Africa. Undifferentiated E-V12* lineages (not E-V32 or E-M224, so therefore named "E-V12*" are found at especially high levels (44.3%) in Southern Egyptians, but also scattered widely in small amounts in both Northern Africa and Europe, but with very little sign in Western Asia, apart from Turkey. These E-V12* lineages were formerly included (along with many E-V22* lineages in Cruciani et al.'s original (2004) "delta cluster", which he had defined using DYS profiles. With the discovery of the defining SNP, Cruciani et al. (2007) reported that V-12* was found in its highest concentrations in Egypt, especially Southern Egypt. Hassan et al. (2008) report a significant presence of E-V12* in neighboring Sudan, including 5/33 Copts and 5/39 Nubians. E-V12* made up approximately 20% of the Sudanese E-M78. They propose that the E-V12 and E-V22 sub-clades of E1b1b1a (E-M78) might have been brought to Sudan from their place of origin in North Africa after the progressive desertification of the Sahara around 6,000–8,000 years ago. Sudden climate change might have forced several Neolithic cultures/people to migrate northward to the Mediterranean and southward to the Sahel and the Nile Valley. The E-V12* paragroup is also observed in Europe (e.g. amongst French Basques) and Eastern Anatolia (e.g. Erzurum Turks). (http://www.thefullwiki.org/Haplogroup_E1b1b1a_(Y-DNA))
From the above researched work, it showed some migrants moved out of Africa to Middle East for greener pasture and conquest purpose through a form astrological knowledge and somewhere along the line,t the Yoruba ancestors dominated these lands through their unique revered knowledge and parted again from these people when other competitors had acquired close knowledge of Yorubas. Thus the hostilities arose out of the complex knowledge that these new world order acquired that made them more into adventurism and weapon production,which made Yoruba ancestors left these lands to regrouped but with an everlasting footprints.
Oduduwa's case you mentioned isn't as it seems from within Yoruba land because the name Dhu Nawas appeared, in the ancient Arabia in Medina as a Jewish King. And there are too many linguistic connection between Middle East's Ancient Hebrews than the Arabs with Yorubas. Furthermore, name of the man that founded the dynasty that has sustained the ILE IFE was not Oduduwa but his own ancestral forebear. The orikis(panegyrics) of Oonis are key to breaking this codes because certain names and words are found in Midday East lexicons, such as the Ancient Hebrews,Aramaic Arabs,Egyptians. Paradventure you want to share the three proofs you are referring? Kindly share these three proof because I can't understand what you meant.After all,we Yoruba didn't fall from heaven.
@lawani, I hope you can see we arent indigenously to West Africa but due to adaptation and weather affected the Yorubas. If the Yorubas are under a climactic condition that's more friendlier, the Yorubas would have a different dna that's closely linked to that environment.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by KingSango(m): 10:43pm On Dec 23, 2018|
The royal class of East Africans were extremely tall. Oduduwa was said to be over 8 feet tall. The Ife people were shorter in stature. Oduduwa brought with him the staff of Queen Sheba, still kept in Ife, which was how come he was received so well. That was until the waves started coming and friction begun with the two groups. Peace was only made when Oduduwas people joined the Ogboni which originated in Ife.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 12:38am On Dec 24, 2018|
Quite an assertion but which ethnic group in that East Africa came with such tall powerful personnel and his migrants colleagues that brought civilization to this part of West Africa?
Which East African ethnic group use the word ‘Orisha' or ‘Risha'(ancestor) which is a closely linked name with Yorubas ?
Which East Africa ethnic group use ofo/onfo(fly) as found in Yoruba language?
Which East African ethnic group have Ogun (warrior) in their historical setting as seen in ancient
Which East Africa ethnic group in East Africa had a knowledge of migrants outside their shore ?
On the Ogboni issue, it is a relatively modern unification of the distinct groups as a result of the disunity amongst Yoruba. It was formed for a reason.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by googi: 3:49am On Dec 24, 2018|
As usual, thank you very much for all the information you always provide, not only on this topic but over the years.
Sometimes I wonder where we disagreed.
I am sure you must have heard or read that Oduduwa brought a staff, a crown and some markings on his body to prove that he was returning home. But I also realize that these are mostly oral history which is not enough for many of us.
At the same time, I can rely on your scientific reference to come to the same conclusion you did as quoted that Yoruba (Africans) came back home from Egypt, Sudan, Ethiopia or Mesopotamia.
There were always people in the rainforest. If these are the people Oduduwa met, it does not negate the claim by people like Prof. Abimbola that the world started from Ife.
My point is that various locations of Ife to the present location is closer to the origin of man than Egypt or Israel Africans love to cling to.
Again, with all respect.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 9:02am On Dec 24, 2018|
I heard what you had heard about Odudua,as regard his, staff,Cockerel, crown, which I have studied so keenly to realise these things aren't limited to the Yoruba worldview but the world at large. In actual fact,there has been limited knowledge by the inventors of different version of Western Nigeria's ILE IFE because of the oral account known to us isn't enough for us to accept these versions that has so many flaws . Although these different version narrators have been helpful because there are information that has been helpful in diagnosis of Yoruba history from migrants perspective.
Part of the storyline,was that the Oduduwa group's descended through the HILLS and their Lexicons such as Ikan(ekan-one), Ora,Ra,Ira,etc are also not only used in Yorubas West Africa located land but significantly used in Egypt and Ancient Hebrews land-Middle East. As you can see,Yoruba people oral history narrators can't claim Oduduwa and group as being aboriginal to West Africa because it doesn't match!
Once we all realise that even the Yoruba is not located directly under the equator, so certain claim that weather affected the archeological buried earthenware, can always be put on hold because such information is not true which has always made the Western Researchers looked at the information being provided on Yoruba history as inconsistent from Yoruba historians perspective.
On the close proximity of the first place of mankind has always had its leeway because the oldest fossil humans has always being around Tigris and Euphrates rivers; Ethiopia-Mesopotamia. The reason not farfetched being through archeological finding on the bones of humanoids found in these vicinity knock off the local claim by Yorubas. In fact, oral accounts says Yoruba gave birth to white ancestors through a lineage in ILE IFE.
As far as I am concerned, honesty and hard work is what we all need in unraveling this myth and the oral account that has become tough for a lot to unravel especially by the scholars that could not match the reality and the corresponding myth. As radical as I am, dealing with reality is always my school of thought on this our national Yoruba's worldview.
From this storyline of Oduduwa as stated orally as descended from the Hill fit in into the Ivri people; a people that descended through the Hill people( English's reinvented word as Hebrew),which sometimes ,it is called ,‘pass over'.
My question to the people that have read books from the perspective of Yoruba historians or historians are:
1. Can two different group of people be different but have same philosophical approach toward ‘HILL' ? Yoruba and early Hebrew uses ‘Hill', figuratively for God because it shield through the God's protection.
2. Can Urim and Orum(ela)be the same root word without being from the same proto family and language ?
3. Do you know ‘ Aré' - ‘Zare'in transliteration is the word for crown in early Hebrew?
4. Do you know Àdè does not mean crown in classical Yoruba but Àré ?
5. Do you know Àdè was associated with crown due to development of Yoruba language and its connection to royal through the method of wearing it by king(s)?
6. Do you know IshèÒtà became collapse/diminutive into Òtà is corrupted word for satan in English ?
7. Do you know the staff which Ooni carries was carried by early Hebrew which represent Shepherd and Royalty?
Below is a screenshot of Lamed alphabet that signify staff of authority with its pictograph.
Trust me Sir, all these above are same words with Early Hebrews...
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 3:20pm On Dec 24, 2018|
lawani:Are you looking for dna to support your view? If yes, then , you have missed the point because yoruba dna carry different dna pool. Let me ask you four simple questions:
1.Did all the words I have posited are loanwords of Yoruba people? And kindly explain your reasons.
2. Do Yoruba people in North and South America have absolute dna link with Yoruba in West Africa? If not ,do you now understand what location and intermarriage could bring?
3. Who were the ancestors of Yoruba with such strong immune system that carries 8% ghost dna not found in other people in West Africa? Teach us what we don't know.
4. Who were the Yoruba ancestors in west Africa that had knowledge of keloids to the extent of having panegyric for it ? Kindly share
Lastly, donot underestimate the Yorubas because the Yorubas you are from know who is who amongst them, even at the deepest intermarriages that had lasted 100s of years.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lawani: 4:03pm On Dec 24, 2018|
Olu317:kemitic egyptian is ancient Yoruba language, it is not a matter of loan words. Heritage and not dna determines who we are, this is why we now have white Yoruba people in South america
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by bluke(m): 6:05pm On Dec 24, 2018|
is kemitic egyptian language the ife language, or the oyo yoruba language.
the white yoruba is by virtue of his religion, there cant be dna correlation with yoruba omo oduduwa.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 6:20pm On Dec 24, 2018|
lawani:lawani,ancient Egyptians weren't one ethnic group but an empire like today's U.S.A , Old Russia, where different ethnic group lived for one reason or the other.
Let me make you see yourself as the ancient Hebrew man with this word lale(night). The well interpreted early Hebrew language by unbiased western Hebrew linguists who dedicated their time to the knowledge of reconstruction of early Hebrew.
The revelation is that no other group speaks this early Hebrews and ancient Ishmaelites in Africa except Yorubas ....
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lawani: 7:37pm On Dec 24, 2018|
bluke:if you marry a white woman and your children marry white, your grandchildren would be white more or less, there you have white Yoruba
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lawani: 7:41pm On Dec 24, 2018|
Olu317:what you refer to as ancient hebrew is kemitic egyptian which is what yorubas speak today by over 50percent of vocabulary . Hebrew is a new group by far junior to yoruba
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by bluke(m): 2:43am On Dec 25, 2018|
u have half caste
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by brodalokie: 3:06am On Dec 25, 2018|
Na tribulation you go cause like that oh unless Jesus dey by your side them go just divide the child pale color oyinbo go carry one and king blacky go carry one
Just joking it's true and if you stay in their weather for years eat well and apply your cream you go change and e go reflect on your children with exceptional blacksheep
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 8:10am On Dec 25, 2018|
Your are absolute wrong because the last word I shared isn't a LEXICON FOUND IN EGYPT . In fact ,Oru(heat) emanated when Yoruba ancestors appeared in IRAQ (OR/UR of Mesopotamia) before migration took them to the land of Ai(Aiyè).Let me inform you that the Yoruba ancestors arrived the land of Kannan and captured it. Hence they intermarried with the earlier settlement of people of they captured
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 11:17am On Dec 25, 2018|
No sir, three generation of darkskin person can't be called black or half caste anymore but white because it is only the first generation that can fit properly to half caste. Hence some white yorubas in Americas etc. In the same way a white skin person either man or woman married into a dark skin family will become a darkskin after three generation e.g the late Bob Marley's father was a white man but today,the descendants of Bob Marley are darkskin people.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by bluke(m): 12:15pm On Dec 25, 2018|
so the arabs are whites?
the greeks and khazars and northern pple (not hausa)intermarried with blacks that produces todays arab.
They kicked the rest out of arabia, (the ijebus, edos, fiditi, aworis, egus etc
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lawani: 12:28pm On Dec 25, 2018|
Olu317:but what are you saying? What we speak today is it kemitic egyptian or ancient hebrew?
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by brodalokie: 2:48pm On Dec 25, 2018|
I have recently revealed that the word Ile-Ife was coined from English, "Life"
When you go through my last thread titled The Lamb you will understand how they came about it. The elite Yorubas are drawing their essence or inspiration from an mysterious Pale dimension when they are studying in Arabic and English, which is consequently broken down into local contents for your consumption.
Lamb means Life Ambassador or Amber. Amber is Pale color which is the sun as my brothers have said Oru, they are not far from the truth. Light is a source of light and the sun is the source. Therefore the ambassadors of light are soldiers because the word soldier means sun god, Sol is latin for sun and dio is god. Soldiers are peaceful people/ambassadors. Yorubaland is a simbol of Oru - Pale Sun - Life/Light giver - Ile-Ife.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by bluke(m): 3:56pm On Dec 25, 2018|
i told you its cocoa effect.
u send your cocoa to europe and it comes back as chocolate, a simple word is good enough for the wise.
yorubas had been around before english, europeans shdnt be our base for argument.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 4:08pm On Dec 25, 2018|
Linguistic analysis of of a language of a community; Dominant, Subordinate and Monolingual
A typical profile of a speech community (A— Cushitic/Kemitic) in contact with another group (B—Yoruba/Hebrew), is that if ( A— Cushitic/Kemitic) is dominated by (B—Yoruba/Hebrew), the language of the community then change from monolingual (A—cushitic/kemitic ) to bilingual (Ab—Cushites/Kemitic & yoruba/hebrew ).This mean that (A—Cushitic/Kemitic)becomes dominant,while B— Yoruba/Hebrewb becomes subordinate). If AB— Cushite/Kemitic & Yoruba/Hebrew ( A—Cushitic/Kemitic and B—Yoruba/Hebrew becomes equals ), then it becomes aB— cushitic/kemitic & Yoruba/Hebrew( A—cushitic/kemitic subordinate ,B—Yoruba/Hebrew becomes dominant) i.e If Both language are spoken on equal basis based on the contact of the former group and new comer group to the community, it then becomes (‘A'—Cushitic/Kemitic ; the older community is a subordinate while the new comer group ‘B'—Yoruba/Hebrew; becomes dominant and finally to monolingual B—Yoruba/Hebrew
These three types of bilingualism may be described as,’ ‘Supplementary '( AB—Cushite/Kemitic & Yoruba/Hebrew ; in which B— Yoruba/Hebrew is only an occasional ,‘Hilfssprache', for specific purposes).
‘Complementary'( AB—Cushitic/Kemitic & Yoruba/Hebrew ; in which the two alternate according to important functions in the speakers lives),
and ‘Replacive'(aB— yoruba& Cushitic/Kemitc; in which A— Cushitic/Kemitic has become only a language used with older people while B— Yoruba/Hebrew fulfils all the important functions). Another set of terms might be inceptive, functional and residual,when these three types are seen as historically ordered in a transitional bilingualism.
Invariably, the Yoruba language is old Hebrew,even if there are borrowed words from other groups. Thus the formula above is the way Yoruba language invaded Ibira land,Edo,some Tapas,ibos, etc that mixed with Yorubas through bordering towns.
Note: The book written by ‘Einar Haugen,Ecology of Language', will be helpful.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lawani: 4:34pm On Dec 25, 2018|
Olu317:what I want you to realise is that ancient hebrew is thesame as kemitic egyptian which Yoruba is
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by bluke(m): 4:34pm On Dec 25, 2018|
the ugbo people of ondo state still speak the old yoruba language known as ede ife (ife language)
the current oyo yoruba were the migrants that changed the language. that could be related to hebrew or asiatic language.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 8:42pm On Dec 25, 2018|
No sir, because they spoke related language. The difference between Oyo dialect and the rest Yorubas is that Oyo's dialect stretches the lexicons while most other dialects retained the archaic pronunciation though with little modification as migration from one base to another.
If you read what I posted that quoted, you will realise that whatever language these people spoke was overran by the migrants group,if you use the hypothesis that is involved in linguistic analysis of a community. Invariably, the migrants groups had more multiple birth than the first settlement. Such names as Usere-Oba-m-akin-Oba-t'ala-(Osan)gangn are names found in Semitic language even if some meaning aren't cognate.
Take for instance, the Opa Oranmiyan is said to be an inscription in Middle-Eastern Letters that archeologists have accepted as corresponding in sound to “Oranmiyan”( Reish/Resh and Yud/Yod).
If Opa Oranmiyan and Ogun stone are said to be connected to Middle East, doesn't it show who they were? It is as simple as ABC. In fact, the inscription on the Opa Oranmiyan by the grace of Élédáà can be interpreted.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by Olu317(m): 9:33pm On Dec 25, 2018|
lawani:No sir, they are not because :
1. The Egyptians didn't exhume the dead but only Yoruba and Hebrew.
2. Egyptians mummified their kings,unlike Yoruba and old Hebrew that don't mummify
3.The Egyptians had an image of God with a man as havingbram's horn unlike Yoruba and Hebrew who had a formless God
4.The Egyptians do not wear caps like rabbi's cap unlike Yoruba and Hebrew
5. Egyptians do not pour water on the feet of a bride about entering her husband's home unlike Yoruba and Hebrew.
6. The Egyptians have no culture which make the younger ones prostrate to older man as a form of salutation as Yorubas did and do and old Hebrew did .
As you can see Yoruba aren't Egyptians but lived in that land while traveling through down to the forest zone in West Africa. In fact, go verify what was ‘one(1)' called in old Hebrew.
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by bluke(m): 2:07am On Dec 26, 2018|
u said no but gave a more detailed analysis of what i said.
oduduwas presence changed the language fro which other ethnic groups got theirs, pls do away with this linguistics issue.
the ugbo of ondo were from old, are u saying they speak like other yoruba groups.?
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by lawani: 10:27am On Dec 26, 2018|
Olu317:ancient hebrew is kemitic egyptian is ancient Yoruba . Yoruba is totally different from hebrew, our theology is almost opposite as Yoruba worship virtually everything while hebrews worship only yahweh
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by bluke(m): 11:17am On Dec 26, 2018|
total misconception of yoruba religion, although not an expert, they woprship olodumare as the only God, the rest as gods (ministers with designated responsibilities)
|Re: Who Are These Yorubas? by bluke(m): 11:58am On Dec 26, 2018|
A lot of the anthologies about the story of mankind being bandied around in the global mass media are fraudulent and tools of confusion. Most are based on bible data like the Table of Nations which has details that are incongruous and twisted to favour oyinbo protagonists. It is therefore a begotten fraud which should not be completely discarded but the truth sifted from the lies in line with the African saying, “do not throw the baby away with the bath water”. But these lies have also been propagated by Africans who have also been doing same to themselves. The Ifa literary corpus and other oral records of the Aku can be used to achieve this filtering. Some results of using this filter are that not everyone on earth descended from the same father or mother, which implies that not everyone’s Y-chromosome and mitochondrial DNA have been inherited from a single man or woman respectively; and that a lot of the anthologies of various ancient peoples which have been based on the bible book of Genesis have to be reviewed entirely, and that the bible and other anthologies derived from it are schizoid tools used by certain groups for supremacist aims. The most important is that the Akus possess the actual data that all peoples of various fields can use to piece together the story of mankind.
in my opinion, omo yoruba ronu. everything was taken from us, repackaged and given back to us.
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