When will African leaders start taking responsibility for thier own actions instead of blaming the west.

I like Mugabe's strategy around land reform, because approximately 1% of whites in Zimbabwe owned like 95% of the land, so yes land reform is very important. However, the way he is going about making these drastic and very important changes is only making him an enemy rather than creating allies, But then we know that anything anti-white is seen as än enemy,

Many African Union leaders have stayed mum shot about his radical ideas because he WAS a freedom fighter,

I mean Zimbabwe faces soo many challenges but being close to South Africa (which is among the economic prospering countries in the continent), one would have thought otherwise,

What do yáll think about Mugabe and the changes he's trying to make?

madamkoko:

When will African leaders start taking responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the west.

I like Mugabe's strategy around land reform, because approximately 1% of whites in Zimbabwe owned like 95% of the land, so yes land reform is very important. However, the way he is going about making these drastic and very important changes is only making him an enemy rather than creating allies, But then we know that anything anti-white is seen as än enemy,

Many African Union leaders have stayed mum shot about his radical ideas because he WAS a freedom fighter,

I mean Zimbabwe faces soo many challenges but being close to South Africa (which is among the economic prospering countries in the continent), one would have thought otherwise,

What do yáll think about Mugabe and the changes he's trying to make?

Mugabe may be a dictator, he may be powerdrunk, but he is not a mumu.
Despite the fact that Mugabe and Zimbabwe have failed because the people are suffering, this doesn't mean that he is daft. The situation in Zimbabwe is just a clear example of the Western world demonstrating how powerful they are and how harshly they will deal with whoever opposes them. They are using Zimbabwe as a scapegoat.
It is not about white farmers being chased out of the country and black farmers not being able to take their place. Clearly, Zimbabwe is suffering due to the sanctions that have been placed on it by the Western world. The Western world is trying to make other African countries follow suit, until Mugabe throws in the towel.
Very sad indeed, this situation. My suggestion to Mugabe is to give up so his people have a better life, because he has definitely failed. Lesson learned.

"Oyibo, we will never challenge you again! You win!"

beystwin:

Mugabe may be a dictator, he may be powerdrunk, but[b] he is not a mumu[/b].
Despite the fact that Mugabe and Zimbabwe have failed because the people are suffering, this doesn't mean that he is daft. T[b]he situation in Zimbabwe is just a clear example of the Western world demonstrating how powerful they are and how harshly they will deal with whoever opposes them. They are using Zimbabwe as a scapegoat.
It is not about white farmers being chased out of the country and black farmers not being able to take their place. Clearly, Zimbabwe is suffering due to the sanctions that have been placed on it by the Western world. The Western world is trying to make other African countries follow suit, until Mugabe throws in the towel.
Very sad indeed, this situation. My suggestion to Mugabe is to give up so his people have a better life, because he has definitel[/b]y failed. Lesson learned.

"Oyibo, we will never challenge you again! You win!"

Thank you!! Well said, you will have people that will challenge this statement but it is still the truth.

You guys have still failed to show how Western Sanctions turned a nation that was the food basket of eastern africa into a nation of famine.
This despite the fact that Zimbabwe could get as much fetilizer et al from other Eastern African countries.

or did Blair and Bush render Zimbabwe's soil infertile?

texazzpete:

You guys have still failed to show how Western Sanctions turned a nation that was the food basket of eastern africa into a nation of famine.
This despite the fact that Zimbabwe could get as much fetilizer et al from other Eastern African countries.

or did Blair and Bush render Zimbabwe's soil infertile?

Isn't it obvious enough?
Their farming machinery and equipment originate from the Western countries. Therefore, sanctions affected them badly.

Another factor is that when the black farmers took over from the white farmers, there was no point in them manufacturing the same products (e.g. viable products such as wine, cheese, tobacco), because these products were mainly sold to the Western world, and due to the sanctions imposed by the West, there is no viable market for black farmers manufacturing these products.

Of course there were other crops they could produce (e.g. ground nut, corn); however, these at the time were less viable.

Lastly, capital was another factor. Most banks in Zimbabwe were owned by whites, and when the white farmers left, it was difficult for black farmers to get loans.

This is how sanctions affect the economy.

Zimbabwe was hailed as the foodbasket of East Africa. they didn't get that name from selling wine and cheese only.

We're saying the same thing. If Mugabe knew his black farmers were not capable of running the farms, why not ease the whites out gently and gradually?

The land distribution itself was not done with his country's best interests at heart, with farmland being shared amongst his veterans and cronies, instead of competent farmers


It's silly to claim their farming equipment originated from the west without any proof. These white guys had lived in Zimbabwe 9formerly Rhodesia) for decades. it's far more likely that the equipment came from South Africa, a country that had been sympathetic with Mugabe's regime for donkey years.

Mugabe could get any equipment he wanted from SA. the issue isn't the machinery. it's abruptly yanking successful, arable lands from the whites and handing them over to people who know NOTHING about farming. The whites should have been phased out, or at least care taken to hand over the land to skilled black farmers.
Zimbabwe cannot feed itself. That's Mugabe's goddamned fault, and we should be responsible enough to admit it, even if the asswipe cannot do so.

Just as an aside, what do you think would happen to Nigeria's oil production if Niger Delta millitants drive away every non-indigene away from Shell, Mobil and Chevron and replaces them with eager millitants and youths?

@beystwin  very solid points. You are exploring the impact of institutional racism ( as sociologists will say)


These people have set things up in a way that white automatically means economic prowess,

I also see texazzpete   point in stating that Mugabe did not strategically think about his land redistribution tactic. He should have given the lands to those who knew how to farm adequately.

Then another issue comes up, did the whites who had farmed in Zimbabwe for decades transfer or pass on any knowledge to Black farmers?

Were they just hugging all the knowledge and not sharing to protect their own economic interests.

My suggestion to Mugabe is to give up so his people have a better life, because he has definitely failed. Lesson learned.

"Oyibo, we will never challenge you again! You win!"

You're right. The powerful West is using Mugabe as a scapegoat. So does this mean that Africa will continue to be a colony ?

Understood that most African leaders are corrupt, however the West is just as bad and even worse, although western civilization is able to give thier citizens the basic necessitiees,

It's silly to claim their farming equipment originated from the west without any proof. These white guys had lived in Zimbabwe 9formerly Rhodesia) for decades. it's far more likely that the equipment came from South Africa, a country that had been sympathetic with Mugabe's regime for donkey years.

@texazzpete:
You are only proving my point! Is it not white people in South Africa who own the machinery?
Thabo Mbeki may have been sympathetic to Zimbabwe, but not the white people who own the banks, factories and basically run the economy there. And certainly not the blacks, who have resorted to killing Zimbabwean immigrants.

So what is your point, exactly?

Mechanised farming is capital-intensive and requires technology. It requires a viable market. It requires more than most people think. All these are things that Oyibo people have.

Mugabe should not have removed Oyibo people because they owned the economy. They own the whole of Southern Africa.

beystwin:

Isn't it obvious enough?
Their farming machinery and equipment originate from the Western countries. Therefore, sanctions affected them badly.

Another factor is that when the black farmers took over from the white farmers, there was no point in them manufacturing the same products (e.g. viable products such as wine, cheese, tobacco), because these products were mainly sold to the Western world, and due to the sanctions imposed by the West, there is no viable market for black farmers manufacturing these products.

Of course there were other crops they could produce (e.g. ground nut, corn); however, these at the time were less viable.

Lastly, capital was another factor. Most banks in Zimbabwe were owned by whites, and when the white farmers left, it was difficult for black farmers to get loans.

This is how sanctions affect the economy.

I thought your decision to end your post with an "embarrassment" emoticon was telling in a profoundly ironic way.Truly,you should feel embarrassed about this nescient post of yours.

I have seen some well argued,albeit erroneous,cases made in support of the contention that sanctions are the major causes of Zimbabwe's economic malaise but yours isn't one of them.

Zimbabwe is not under trade sanctions.Zimbabwe is free to import trade machinery from the West to its heart delight,thus any suggestion that sanctions prevent it from importing farm machinery is pathetic.So also is the rather obtuse claim about Zimbabwe's agricultural products being blocked out of Western markets.

The only product Zimbabwe is prohibited from buying from the West is military equipment.

As for the last comment about Zimbabwe being unable to raise capital,that is only true in so far as raising capital from international institutions(e.g IMF & World Bank) is concerned.Domestic Zimbabwean banks,like every other bank,pursue their self-interest. Zimbabwean banks will not fail to provide loans merely out of racial spite.

madamkoko:

I also see texazzpete point in stating that Mugabe did not strategically think about his land redistribution tactic. He should have given the lands to those who knew how to farm adequately.

Then another issue comes up, did the whites who had farmed in Zimbabwe for sooo decades transfer or pass on any knowledge to Black farmers?

Were they just hugging all the knowledge and not sharing to protect their own economic interests.

Blacks must have worked for them. These guys must have picked up some knowledge. there are universities in Zimbabwe churning out Agriculture graduates. These two groups of people may have made a difference.

Sadly Mugabe shared out the lands to his cronies, his veterans, his pals as gifts. None of the people who truly would have done good were given anything.


But that's a trait common with African heads, isn't it? Nigeria has Career diplomats, yet most ambassadorial positions were given to political appointees i.e Ahmadu Alli (curses be upon him!)

madamkoko:

I also see texazzpete point in stating that Mugabe did not strategically think about his land redistribution tactic. He should have given the lands to those who knew how to farm adequately.

Then another issue comes up, did the whites who had farmed in Zimbabwe for decades transfer or pass on any knowledge to Black farmers?

Were they just hugging all the knowledge and not sharing to protect their own economic interests.

Are you having a laugh? Is farming knowledge so esoteric that white people could be somewhat at fault for the supposed cluelessness of black Zimbabwean farmers?

madamkoko:





You're right. The powerful West is using Mugabe as a scapegoat. So does this mean that Africa will continue to be a colony ?

Understood that most African leaders are corrupt, however the West is just as bad and even worse, although western civilization is able to give their citizens the basic necessitiees,

I guess that is the bitter truth.

Are you having a laugh? Is farming knowledge so esoteric that white people could be somewhat at fault for the supposed cluelessness of black Zimbabwean farmers?

I don't think that emoticon suggests laughter.

1. You must NOT know how to read
2. Are you white?
3. No need for personal attacks.

No where in my post am I blaming whites. I was responding to texazzpete comment. Don't be stupid. The Black Farmers are not clueless.

Mugabe is simply hoodwinking poor Zimbabweans to think that the 'West' is the cause of the problem - there are NO trade sanctions, simply travel bans on Mugabe and top government officials. They can import pretty much anything they want except for weapons (which they try to get from China anyways) so what sanctions?

Terrible mismanagement and over-politicization of something so essential to the economy caused this - why give land to people with NO farming ability? Why not set up joint-ventures with these white farmers with a succession/indigenisation principle in place say in the next 5 years? Instead in a desperate attempt to retain power (which paid of for him but impoverished millions) he made the land issue a mainstay and gave it to his cronies and supporters - the result is the mess we see in Zimbabwe today.

There are a million better ways he could have gone about this redistribution thing, but his intent was more to hold on to power than resolve the land problems. He should leave power - nothing is being achieved in the country now except for setting inflation world records.

madamkoko:

I don't think that emoticon suggests laughter.

1. You must NOT know how to read
2. Are you white?
3. No need for personal attacks.

No where in my post am I blaming whites. I was responding to texazzpete comment. Don't be stupid. The Black Farmers are not clueless.

Obviously,you are quite stupid.If the black farmers are not clueless,how does the question of knowledge transfer by whites arise?

@texazzpete

Sadly Mugabe shared out the lands to his cronies, his veterans, his pals as gifts. None of the people who truly would have done good were given anything.
But that's a trait common with African heads, isn't it? Nigeria has Career diplomats, yet most ambassadorial positions were given to political appointees i.e Ahmadu Alli (curses be upon him!)[quote][/quote]

Point well taken. Thats why I referred to Mugabe as Mumu, because if he is thinking of such a drastic change, something that can affect Zimbabwe economy, he should have done things more strategically, than giving friends and buddies land, Now whites will still  come back to OWN it after all is failed.

mumugabe?
ROFL

@4 Play:

It is people like you who make any sort of intelligent discussion impossible.
This topic was fairly civil, with people criticizing each other's opinions rather than the person writing the posts, until you butted in with your personal attacks, hiding your ignorance behind "big grammar". Plus, your posts clearly show that you are a coon for your "massa". I am embarassed for you.

Yeye dey smell.

sheniqua:

mumugabe?
ROFL

i didn't even noticed it.

@ beystwin: abi ooo.

"THe Lancaster agreement" is what caused Mugabe to take such a drastic move in land reform matters. He was hoodwinked into signing this agreement when that particular issue was not tackled properly and the British relented on their plan of assisting in the redistribution of land equitably.

What do you expect the guy to do. They didn't keep their end of the bargain so why should he?

Mugabe no be Mugu-gabe.

i think the main problem mugabe faced is the problem most african leaders faced at independence at what south africa is also facing now,it is the question of resource and wealth  distrubution/redistrubution.it is something that can never go on fairly to every player involved but it must take place and leaders should take firm and wise decisions,rather that strong and quick decision that mugabe took. mugabe has a lot of share of the blame, but so do the bristish goverment that renegaded on the aggrement they sign with whitefarmers and goverment in 1980(lancester house agreement).that why the british are the most vocal when it comes to this issue

But why Britain carry the thing for head? As soon as white farmers were told to vacate the land they occupy, Mugabe was made to look like Saddam Hussein. Where were they before whites were asked to vacate the land? I smell hypocrisy.

morpheus24:

"THe Lancaster agreement" is what caused Mugabe to take such a drastic move in land reform matters. He was hoodwinked into signing this agreement when that particular issue was not tackled properly and the British relented on their plan of assisting in the redistribution of land equitably.

What do you expect the guy to do. They didn't keep their end of the bargain so why should he?

Mugabe no be Mugu-gabe.

Good point again.

beystwin:

@4 Play:

It is people like you who make any sort of intelligent discussion impossible.
This topic was fairly civil, with people criticizing each other's opinions rather than the person writing the posts, until you butted in with your personal attacks, hiding your ignorance behind "big grammar". Plus, your posts clearly show that you are a coon for your "massa". I am embarassed for you.
Yeye dey smell.

Intelligent discussion? A discussion in which one glib idiot claims Zimbabwe can't import farm machinery due to sanctions and another nescient poster queries why white farmers failed to transfer knowledge to black farmers can hardly be referred to as "intelligent".

Its an orgy of ignorance,very typical of a Nigerian forum. I don't allow ignorant commentary on the politics thread and the miscreants who produce it to go scot-free.

While I maintain the position that Mugabe was on the right for handling the white farmers the way he did seeing as the British did not hold up their end of the deal. He screwed up with the way he distributed it and his inability to leave his position. I wonder though if he finally leaves his presidency for life position if those whites would go back given the opportunity.

make I just dey read.
I no get anything to contribute.
na Zimbabwe I go chop?

The so called 'Lancaster Agreement' is just being used as a scapegoat - the agreement concerned paying some compensation to the white farmers because they would lose land, how did that stop Mugabe from executing a thought out system to partner the white farmers rather than drive them out? These same white farmers who had been producing quietly for decades within the country without engaging in politics?

It was a very rash and hasty move to satisfy the so called 'war veterans' in the ZANU-PF who were his main power base - they called for 'a war' to retake land and that is what they got, now everyone is wiser except for Mugabe and the few cronies who benefited of course.