OK i will keep this simple..

i hear this statement "all babies are born atheist" been thrown around a lot lately particularly from atheists. as absurd and odd as that statement is-from my perspective- given or as relates to the definition/proposition of atheism,it is my wish to invite all atheist in the house who aver to that notion to expatiate and justify on how they got to that conclusion - that all babies are born atheist..

like i said i will keep it simple so here is my tke..

No one is born an atheist.. to claim/assert otherwise is to engage in or employ a faulty defintion of atheism as "a lack of belief in God( no belief in God)..And we all know that is not the correct or real definition-at least to "real atheist"..Athesim is not a lack of bellief in God.. That is more described as "agnosticism"..

Atheism is the claim or belief in the non existence of God.. In other words it is the belief that the proposition "God exists" is false.. again we all know even to the least intelligent among us that NO BABY IS BORN WITH THAT BELIEF and as such no baby is born an atheist..

nevertheless i want to hear the atheists perspective on this all babies are born atheist mantra..

All babies are born agnostic then. Are you happy now?

They aren't conscious when they are born.

Good God!! Where have you been?!

EDIT: Ah yes, and atheism is not necessarily that strong. But true, for the most part, if you assert supernatural, then an atheist doesn't buy that. Natural explanations are welcome

New Alfa: All babies are born agnostic then. Are you happy now?

ok good.. I am assuming that you ve let go of your previous stance and glueing yourself to a new one.. now my question is why do you assert that all babies are born agnostics..

greatgenius: ok good.. I am assuming that you ve let go of your previous stance and glueing yourself to a new one.. now my question is why do you assert that all babies are born agnostics..

because every religious fool that i know today was indoctrinated and brainwashed by another person.

I know where you are going with this: if all babies were born agnostic, where did religion come from then?

I will answer that. Babies are born with a capacity to invent things. A capacity to invent scenarios to explain their environment. A capacity to deceive. A hunger to control others. When you put all these together, you get religion. This is why religions are diverse because they primarily depend on the geographical location of the originator.

This is why christians give birth to christian babies and there has never been a christian baby in Saudi Arabia.

wiegraf: They aren't conscious when they are born.

i dont know if i quite get this. are asserting that all babies are born atheist because they arent "conscious" when they are born..

Good God!! Where have you been?!

yea long time God brother..just been busy with business and stuff..how you been. hope all is well with you.

EDIT: Ah yes, and atheism is not necessarily that strong.

what do you mean by @bolded. in respect to what..

But true, for the most part, if you assert supernatural, then an atheist doesn't buy that. Natural explanations are welcome

well supernatural means just that- super natural or beyond the natural.. it is still natural nonetheless.. the problem is that people always assume or assign supernatural to "spiritual realm", deities etc

The simple truth is that anyone who claims that we are all born Atheist is simply desperate for membership...the notion that babies are Atheists is quite silly and definitely not worth debating about.

striktlymi: The simple truth is that anyone who claims that we are all born Atheist is simply desperate for membership...the notion that babies are Atheists is quite silly and definitely not worth debating about.

How foolish. You have nothing to add here and because it is a painful truth, you just come here with your ad hominems.

First off, babies are not born with a belief in God. At best, they are agnostics.
When they reach a reasoning stage, they are atheists until they are indoctrinated (if they have theist parents)

New Alfa:

because every religious fool that i know today was indoctrinated and brainwashed by another person.

I know where you are going with this: if all babies were born agnostic, where did religion come from then?

I will answer that. Babies are born with a capacity to invent things. A capacity to invent scenarios to explain their environment. A capacity to deceive. A hunger to control others. When you put all these together, you get religion. This is why religions are diverse because they primarily depend on the geographical location of the originator.

This is why christians give birth to christian babies and there has never been a christian baby in Saudi Arabia.

forgive me brother, maybe its because my eyes are a little heavy but i dont see the connection of your drivel up there to my question..your assertion was that " all babies are born agnostics" and i asked you to explain how you arrived at that averment. what is the capacity or lack of of babies to invent things "got to do with it"

Logicboy03:


How foolish. You have nothing to add here and because it is a painful truth, you just come here with your ad hominems.

First off, babies are not born with a belief in God. At best, they are agnostics.
When they reach a reasoning stage, they are atheists until they are indoctrinated (if they have theist parents)

Not worth debating about.

Logicboy03:


How foolish. You have nothing to add here and because it is a painful truth, you just come here with your ad hominems.

First off, babies are not born with a belief in God. At best, they are agnostics.
When they reach a reasoning stage, they are atheists until they are indoctrinated (if they have theist parents)

@bolded. how are babies at best agnostics.. i couldnt reaLLY undertand @new alpha so hopefully you will do justice to the question..

striktlymi:

Not worth debating about.

Of course- to a dubious, religious douche like you

Logicboy03:


Of course- to a dubious, religious douche like you

#Unfollows thread!!!

striktlymi:

Not worth debating about.

i disagree brother.. its okay if you have nothing to contribute though

Logicboy03:


Of course- to a dubious, religious douche like you

why the insult..not necessary..

Babies are neither born theists nor atheists.They are tabula rasas,a clean slate,vacuous,waiting to have something written on them.

greatgenius: @bolded. how are babies at best agnostics.. i couldnt reaLLY undertand @new alpha so hopefully you will do justice to the question..

Dont mind striklymi......he has nothing to contribute


An agnostic is simply either

-one who says that we cant know if God exists or doesnt exist
or
-one who doesnt know about whether God exists or not
or
-one who takes a neutral position on the existence of God




The 3rd definition is why many atheists are also agnostics. One cant truly say that the tooth fairy doesn not exist but we still have a disbelief in the tooth fairy's existence. Disbelief is the normal and neutral position to takewhen there is no evidence. 2,000 years and counting, Striklymi and he religious brehtren have failed to bring any solid evidence for God


babies fit in the second definition.

Beretta92: Babies are neither born theists nor atheists.They are tabula rasas,a clean slate,vacuous,waiting to have something written on them.

Between theism and atheism, you have agnosticism. Babies are born agnostic.

Agnosticism ad ignorantum, if you will

greatgenius: forgive me brother, maybe its because my eyes are a little heavy but i dont see the connection of your drivel up there to my question..your assertion was that " all babies are born agnostics" and i asked you to explain how you arrived at that averment. what is the capacity or lack of of babies to invent things "got to do with it"

it is not only your eyes that are heavy. you need to check your head really well.

I was only prempting the only reason I think you opened this thread. It is logical to ask the question of where religion comes from if we assert that nobody is born with any. But we all know that logic and the religious are like fire and water.

I already answered your question about how I came to the conclusion that all babies are born without religious beliefs. Here it is again for your heavy eyes: because every religious fool that i know today was indoctrinated and brainwashed by another person.

wetin all dis ones dey talk self

Logicboy03:



Dont mind striklymi......he has nothing to contribute


An agnostic is simply either

-one who says that we cant know if God exists or doesnt exist
or
-one who doesnt know about whether God exists or not
or
-one who takes a neutral position on the existence of God

babies fit in the second definition

ok i see your position now and you can make an argument.. but i will have to disagree.. my take is that babies are not born agnostics..agnostic like theism and atheism is a "belief" or a position/idea about something-in this case God.. babies have none of these..they have no beliefs.. at least not from an earthly point of view..

The 3rd definition is why many atheists are also agnostics.

hmmmm.. is it possible for one to be both an atheist and an agnostic.. btw i honestly think all so called "atheist" are really agnostics. Like most theist they dont have all the answers and as such sceptical...

One cant truly say that the tooth fairy doesn not exist but we still have a disbelief in the tooth fairy's existence.

well thats agnosticism..why i said most so called "atheist" are actually agnostics..

Disbelief is the normal and neutral position to takewhen there is no evidence.

and there is actually nothing wrong with that position. there is nothing wrong being skeptical of the things you don't understand..following blindly is stupidity. this is why most religious folks are still living in "darkness"...but understand that disbelief is not the same thing as non-existent

2,000 years and counting, Striklymi and he religious brehtren have failed to bring any solid evidence for God

well the evidence for God is all around you..the problem is that you think God is what you have been told about mostly in the bible/koran..

New Alfa:

it is not only your eyes that are heavy. you need to check your head really well.

I was only prempting the only reason I think you opened this thread. It is logical to ask the question of where religion comes from if we assert that nobody is born with any. But we all know that logic and the religious are like fire and water.

I already answered your question about how I came to the conclusion that all babies are born without religious beliefs. Here it is again for your heavy eyes: because every religious fool that i know today was indoctrinated and brainwashed by another person.

lol i think this topic is over your head..what is religion to do with the question really..i don't know if you're aware of this but you don't have to be religious to believe in the existence/non-existence of God.. all babies are born without religious beliefs is not the same thing as all babies are born atheist or agnostic lol..every religious fool that you know being indoctrinated and brainwashed by another does not answer the claim that all babies are born agnostics...

maybe i should remind you that atheism is not the same thing as disbelief in religion.. if your disbelief in religion is why you call yourself an atheist then you are as much of a fool as the religious people you are bashing..

greatgenius: ok i see your position now and you can make an argument.. but i will have to disagree.. my take is that babies are not born agnostics..agnostic like theism and atheism is a "belief" or a position/idea about something-in this case God.. babies have none of these..they have no beliefs.. at least not from an earthly point of view..


hmmmm.. is it possible for one to be both an atheist and an agnostic.. btw i honestly think all so called "atheist" are really agnostics. Like most theist they dont have all the answers and as such sceptical... well thats agnosticism..why i said most so called "atheist" are actually agnostics.. and there is actually nothing wrong with that position. there is nothing wrong being skeptical of the things you don't understand..following blindly is stupidity. this is why most religious folks are still living in "darkness"...but understand that disbelief is not the same thing as non-existent well the evidence for God is all around you..the problem is that you think God is what you have been told about mostly in the bible/koran..

Well said bro....well said.

Evrn though i dont agree with few of your points, you make a lot of sense

greatgenius: ok i see your position now and you can make an argument.. but i will have to disagree.. my take is that babies are not born agnostics..agnostic like theism and atheism is a "belief" or a position/idea about something-in this case God.. babies have none of these..they have no beliefs.. at least not from an earthly point of view..

Ok. so babies are neither atheists nor agnostics. I agree with you. But they are not born with religion either; and between religion and agnosticism/atheism I think a baby is born closer to agnostic/atheism than religion. A tabula rasa is almost the same as the absence of belief. A baby fed with only what everybody agrees are self evident facts will end up as agnostic adult.

there is nothing wrong being skeptical of the things you don't understand..following blindly is stupidity. this is why most religious folks are still living in "darkness"...but understand that disbelief is not the same thing as non-existent well the evidence for God is all around you..the problem is that you think God is what you have been told about mostly in the bible/koran..

Your posts indicate that you believe the force from the begining (the first cause god) is what you are refer to as God?

I think there is a need to give this force from begining a different name other than God because there are clear differences between the Abrahamic god (Biblical/koran god)and this god all around us that you refer to.

The laws of nature that we all obey are the only laws from the first force. We all learn these laws by studying science. Nothing new here.

striktlymi: The simple truth is that anyone who claims that we are all born Atheist is simply desperate for membership...the notion that babies are Atheists is quite silly and definitely not worth debating about.

now i know why you are religious, you are st...

Logicboy03:



Between theism and atheism, you have agnosticism. Babies are born agnostic.

Agnosticism ad ignorantum, if you will

Yeah,only if agnosticism is restricted to meaning "without knowledge".

New Alfa:

because every religious fool that i know today was indoctrinated and brainwashed by another person.

I know where you are going with this: if all babies were born agnostic, where did religion come from then?

I will answer that. Babies are born with a capacity to invent things. A capacity to invent scenarios to explain their environment. A capacity to deceive. A hunger to control others. When you put all these together, you get religion. This is why religions are diverse because they primarily depend on the geographical location of the originator.

This is why christians give birth to christian babies and there has never been a christian baby in Saudi Arabia.

Same with scientists or philosophers. In any case, someone must have started the whole religion stuff. Who did ? And was that person atheist before then or were there atheists then ?

Yungwizzzy: wetin all dis ones dey talk self

Precisely what I thought before becoming a Religion regular One of these days ama switch ships. Diary, Politics or Romance are options I'm considering.

Uyi Iredia:

Same with scientists or philosophers. In any case, someone must have started the whole religion stuff. Who did ? And was that person atheist before then or were there atheists then ?

Good question.......



What if the person had a eureka moment and realised that religion is a good way to brainwash people more powerful than him?

Logicboy03:



Well said bro....well said.

Evrn though i dont agree with few of your points, you make a lot of sense

good well i am glad we agree on some points then. that's what matters most

turnstoner:

Ok. so babies are neither atheists nor agnostics. I agree with you. But they are not born with religion either; and between religion and agnosticism/atheism I think a baby is born closer to agnostic/atheism than religion. A tabula rasa is almost the same as the absence of belief. A baby fed with only what everybody agrees are self evident facts will end up as agnostic adult.

good point but what you fail to realize as evidenced from your contention is that " i am not asserting that all babies are born with religion".. far from it..religion is man made( more of a controlling tool) and it is not the same thing really as theism-though all religions believe in the existence of God..

lets stick to what we agree on- babies are neither atheists nor agnostics...now in regards to tabular rasa note that absence of belief is not the same thing as absence of belief in God or no belief in God..

Your posts indicate that you believe the force from the begining (the first cause god) is what you are refer to as God?

yes the first cause is God..GOD is the totality of all things existence. the everything and the nothing..

I think there is a need to give this force from begining a different name other than God because there are clear differences between the Abrahamic god (Biblical/koran god)and this god all around us that you refer to.

well God is God regardless.. people lack or limited understanding of her and forming a religion out it should not call for a change of name because of it...but yes when i talk about GOD i am not talking about the abrahamic god.. btw the so called abrahamic god YHWH really just stands for hydrogen,nitrogen and oxygen- this is your creator( but lets leave that topic for another day)

The laws of nature that we all obey are the only laws from the first force. We all learn these laws by studying science. Nothing new here.

and why do you have to learn these laws by studying science?

Uyi Iredia:

Same with scientists or philosophers. In any case, someone must have started the whole religion stuff. Who did ? And was that person atheist before then or were there atheists then ?

@bolded. thats why i told him i think the topic is over his head...denouncing the obvious fallacies of religion should not out-rightly make/turn one an atheist..that is preposterous and i hope that is not the position for many of the "atheist" brothers on this forum..

now back to your point religion actually preceded agnoticism/atheism..it is religion that actually turn people into agnostics.. the day religion ends will be the day agnosticism and atheism ends.