Rossikk:

What has GDP got to do with the quality of life and infrastructure in cities?

ngozievergreen:

help me out!
D GDP dey dont make themselves.
Leeches

Definition of 'Gross Domestic Product - GDP'
The monetary value of all the finished goods and services produced within a country's borders in a specific time period, though GDP is usually calculated on an annual basis. It includes all of private and public consumption, government outlays, investments and exports less imports that occur within a defined territory.

dynatress: Nigeria when looked like it was heading somewhere until there was a standtill! oh Nigeria who will deliver you from this ruins!

Abagworo:

I've always been criticized for saying the truth about we black people. We seem to hate decency and progress. If the Brits had stayed in Nigeria till the 90s like they did in SA, Ibadan would have been like Durban. Look at Port-Harcourt, Ibadan and Kano which are Nigerias other cities of over 2million and you'll weep for Nigeria. Even the part of Lagos that is sight to behold remains the area developed by the colonialists.

However all hope is not lost as APC seems to be a focused party at least in infrastructure and people oriented leadership. I'm sure if APC takes over the helms of affairs in Nigeria, positive changes will be experienced. Abuja is an evidence that it is possible.

nnenna.1:


What exactly makes APC progressive when it is comprised of the same elements that made PDP and other prior parties?

Same question is extended to APGA, Labor Party and the rest of them.

IMO Nigeria needs to get rid of 90% of its political elite to progress.

Abagworo:

Ideology affects the human psych when one belongs to any association. In our universities we have the confraternities which shapes students performance depending on the individual orientation even when both grew up together. Same with Churches where 2 brothers indifferent Churches get their individual orientation changed.

In a nutshell I believe the orientation of APC as progressive initiates any politician that joins it into a cult of good performance. Some PDP members have been good but the party has been a stumbling block. Look at Amaechi and all his good works but the 2 major federal roads(East-West Road and PH-Enugu Expressway) that cross his State are death traps. Even the Port-Harcourt Aba highway that has only about 8 to 10km in Rivers State will take you more than an hour from Eleme junction to Obigbo, a distance of 4km.

django1: Rossike, you're not putting things in proper perspective, if Ibadan had maintained its growth pattern of the 60s, I believe things would be much better than it is now.

Just because we now have much roads now or more millionaires today does not in any way mean we are socially better than those back then.

nnenna.1:


What exactly makes APC progressive when it is comprised of the same elements that made PDP and other prior parties?

Same question is extended to APGA, Labor Party and the rest of them.

IMO Nigeria needs to get rid of 90% of its political elite to progress.

Rossikk:

WHAT growth pattern?

I just don't see ANY ''growth pattern'' in those images. Apart from Cocoa house, Leventis, and Mapo Hall, what else was there? Pls don't mention UI or IITA etc. Schools.

Where were the roads? Any expressways? How many hospitals were in Ibadan in 1960? How many kids attended school? I mean, if you see the figures and stats for that period you'll be shocked at the underdevelopment of the period. So showing Cocoa house is useless. The standard of living of people then was very low. Infant mortality rate in the 60s in Nigeria was 260 per 1000. That figure is down to 72 per 1000 today. Today that is supposedly ''bad'' and the 60s ''good''. Point is, why are we deluding ourselves?



Not just more roads and more millionaires. We have more middle class people, more ordinary folk who can afford things like TV, fridge, cars etc. Back in the 50s and 60s only the very rich could afford these items, which were common to people all over the world at the time.

And the sad thing was that no one thought of leaving the country for ''greener pastures'' abroad. Why? Because with a mere 12% literacy rate at independence, most Nigerians were too illiterate and poor to even contemplate such a move.

Today, most Nigerians are literate - thanks to the post-colonial Nigerian govt investment in mass education - so we have that option. So things are a LOT BETTER TODAY in many ramifications.

Abagworo:

I've always been criticized for saying the truth about we black people. We seem to hate decency and progress. If the Brits had stayed in Nigeria till the 90s like they did in SA, Ibadan would have been like Durban.

Even the part of Lagos that is sight to behold remains the area developed by the colonialists.

ShymmexLion: I've to agree with Rossikk on this one. There's absolutely nothing special in those pics for the nostalgic feelings most of the people on this thread are feeling.

Also, to those attributing the structures in those pictures to the colonialists, do I need to remind you that the brits had absolutely nothing to do with the development of Ibadan? Ibadan went to sleep because of the type of people they vote for over there - too many riff-raff and regressive folks. Awolowo laid a foundation, rather than consolidate on that, they all sold their conscience to uneducated plonkers for a plate of Amala.

After reading about Ibadan, the people, and the politics - I can't help but shake my head at how they single-handedly destroyed Awolowo's legacy!

Btw, I'm Yoruba and my mum is from Ibadan. But Ijebu and Lagos are my heritage!

Rossikk:

WHAT growth pattern?

I just don't see ANY ''growth pattern'' in those images. Apart from Cocoa house, Leventis, and Mapo Hall, what else was there? Pls don't mention UI or IITA etc. Schools.

Where were the roads? Any expressways? How many hospitals were in Ibadan in 1960? How many kids attended school? I mean, if you see the figures and stats for that period you'll be shocked at the underdevelopment of the period. So showing Cocoa house is useless. The standard of living of people then was very low. Infant mortality rate in the 60s in Nigeria was 260 per 1000. That figure is down to 72 per 1000 today. Today that is supposedly ''bad'' and the 60s ''good''. Point is, why are we deluding ourselves?



Not just more roads and more millionaires. Today we have more middle class people, more ordinary folk like you and I who can afford things like TV, fridge, cars, phone etc. In 1950s and 60s Nigeria, only the very rich, tiny minority could afford those items, which were common to people all over the world at the time.

And the sad thing was that no one thought of leaving the country for ''greener pastures'' abroad. Why? Because with a mere 12% literacy rate at independence, most Nigerians were too illiterate and poor to even contemplate such a move.

Today, most Nigerians are educated - thanks to the post-colonial Nigerian govt investment in mass education - so we have that option. So things are a LOT BETTER TODAY in many ramifications.

ngozievergreen:

help me give those folks more education.
They need it

agbameta:
How do you reconcile agreeing with that lack of self worth discrediting what Awolowo did and at the same time praise Awolowo and knowledge his legacy?

The first Highrise in Nigeria was built by Nigerians, it was built by the Western Regional government under the ledership of Awolowo, it was built with our own Cocoa funds and not British money.

This achievement was ours, it was Nigerian, it was a tenplate to show the rest of Nigeria and Africa what we are capable of doing and what unfortunately we were not able to replicate all over Ibadan itself or in the rest of the SW and Nigeria in general.

How do you support denying yourself possitve aspects of your own histriy, your own local and indegenous achievments like beaing able to score so many first in Africa?

Do you think if it was folks from other countries like Ghana, they'll discount and belitle their own source of pride on your behalf?

Regardless of our shorcormings, we can not bastardly relegate our ousrselves and throw our history and ride in the gutter.

We did not see the second, the third, the fourth, the fifth or even the 100th or even taller highrise because the government and the people responsible for these accomplishments was terminated and power was sent to folks without the region's interests in their hearts, it was transfered to incompetent people and thoughtless military admnistration.

Fortunetely for us, the region is back in the hands of capable and respomnsible people determined to restore these infrastructures and do more for coming generarions.

Rossikk:
[s]
Stop thinking like a SLAVE. You claim that ''If the Brits had stayed in Nigeria till the 90s like they did in SA, Ibadan would have been like Durban''. But Durban was ALREADY ''like Durban'' by the 1960s and 1950s. So why wasn't Ibadan like Durban then too? Was it not under the same British?

The British, by 1960, had already been ruling Nigeria for 63 years uninterrupted, and yet Ibadan still looked like a big village after their rule. So why would an extra decade or two of British rule have changed anything?

You need to understand that the reason Nigeria was still underdeveloped after 63 years of British rule was that the British decided that since there was no substantial white resident population in Nigeria, it was not worth developing. So instead of re-investing the proceeds of the resources which the nation exported in the country, as was done in South Africa, the colonial govt in Nigeria simply looted the proceeds and siphoned to Britain.




Sure. They siphoned all the nation's money and built up their little elite colonial community away from the masses they stole from, and you praise them for that? Stop thinking like a slave![/s]

Sagamite:

I am sure if you go roughly 150 years ago, there were no roads and expressways or hospitals or kids attending schools in much of the Western world too. Not many people that could call themselves middle-class or afford white goods.

Most people did not think of leaving the country for greener pastures because global mobilisation was not the norm back then

ShymmexLion:

I never discredited the achievements of Awolowo and many firsts he achieved within the short-period he was the premier of the Western region. In fact, I lauded him, and Awolowo is definitely the greatest Nigerian worthy of emulation, IMHO.

My point is that, we can't keep reveling in nostalgia in 2013 when we should be celebrating how we've been able take the foundation the great Awo laid, to greater heights.

Also, Ibadan people need to start taking responsibilities for everything they did to single-handedly undermine Awolowo's legacy. And we as Yoruba
people need to start holding them responsible for failing to do that.

Rossikk:
[s]
We are not talking of ''150 years ago'' Mr Man. 1960 was approximately 50 years ago, not 150 years.

50 years ago, roads, expressways, hospitals, and literacy WERE THE NORM GLOBALLY. The colonialists simply DENIED African colonies those things, which was why we had to play catch-up at independence in the 1960s. By right, everywhere in Africa should look like South Africa, considering the colonialists were in power for nearly a century across the continent, exploiting her resources. But they only re-invested export earnings in colonies with a significant WHITE minority. This is why you go to places like Namibia, SA, even Kenya, and you'll see signs of infrastructural investment dating back a century or more. But not in places like Nigeria, Ghana, Guinea, Cameroun etc. Those nations were all black, so the colonialists did nothing. Now, wishing they had stayed an extra decade, shows a lack of understanding of the logic and deep racism of colonial reasoning.




Oh please... The Indians and Chinese left their nations in droves in the 1940s and 50s to settle in Europe and America. In fact the first 'Chinatown' in the USA was established in the 1920s!!! So people across the world were educated and were moving around. You think all this migration stuff only started yesterday because that was where the colonial govt left you - in the bush, ill-exposed to global developments - until you were saved by Nigerian independence.[/s]

agbameta:



Stop bothering us with your silly fixation on the white man. Worry more about what you can do for your country today and not what was not done by the white man decades ago.

All your silly noise and bitterness wont bring them back to dry up your tears...

agbameta:
1. You can not in one breath agree with that joker and at the same time praise Awolowo for his achievements..


2. We did not ask the military to stop and block our achievements and path to glory regardless of what the white man did or didn't do, we moved on and built the first TV station in Africa, the first stadium, the only major industrial estates that's still responsible for Nigeria's non oil economic and industrial output. The white man didn't do all that, we did, this was our own local effort, this was our path to glory.

3. After decades of disastrous interruptions, we are back on the same glorious path with dedicated and focused leadership from Lagos to Ogun and Osun. This is the only region in Nigeria today that's consistently commissioning project and awarding project, coming up with good public policies and initiatives.

4. We were stopped and interrupted 30 years ago with what should have been another first in the form of the Metro rail, we were denied that achievement 30 years ago. Now look at us today, the same Metro rail is almost here and I can even smell it.


5. Based on number 3 and number 4 above, obviously, we are not resting on past glory in 2013, we are doubling our efforts and moving ahead accordingly.


We are achievers, we did it before and we'll do it again and no force can stop us now.

Rossikk:

We are not talking of ''150 years ago'' Mr Man. 1960 was approximately 50 years ago, not 150 years.

Rossikk:
50 years ago, roads, expressways, hospitals, and literacy WERE THE NORM GLOBALLY. The colonialists simply DENIED African colonies those things, which was why we had to play catch-up at independence in the 1960s. By right, everywhere in Africa should look like South Africa, considering the colonialists were in power for nearly a century across the continent. But they only re-invested export earnings in colonies with a significant WHITE minority. This is why you go to places like Namibia, SA, even Kenya, and you'll see signs of infrastructural investment dating back a century or more. But not in places like Nigeria, Ghana, Guinea, Cameroun etc. Those nations were all black, so the colonialists did nothing. Now, wishing they had stayed an extra decade, shows a lack of understanding of the logic and deep racism of colonial reasoning.

Rossikk:
Oh please... The Indians and Chinese left their nations in droves in the 1940s and 50s to settle in Europe and America. In fact the first 'Chinatown' in the USA was established in the 1920s!!! So people across the world were educated and were moving around. You think all this migration stuff only started yesterday because that was were the colonial govt left you - in the bush - until you were saved by Nigerian independence.

Rossikk:
[s]
Dude I'm really not on your level. Kindly save your breath for your fellow narrow-minded tribalists and touts. I'm dealing with this issue from a broad-based historical Pan-Nigerian, Pan Africanist perspective, which to a one-dimensional tribalist like you, must seem really befuddling.[/s]

ShymmexLion:

Hopefully.

Anyway, I only agreed with Rossikk about the colonialists and the people who asserted that they should have stayed longer.

However, something needs to be done about the mentality of the people in Ibadan. They're the leaders of the Yoruba race/land by default and they need to start acting like leaders and setting the pace for other to follow, and not Lagos. Ibadan was the capital of the western region and the mirror that would always be used to judge the achievements of Yoruba people. They need to take the lead and let Lagos and others follow.

Finally, I hope we get there soon and restore the old glory. Fashola has set the bar high and I hope others would take it higher, especially Ibadan people. I like Osun and Ogun state govs, they're achievers.

Sagamite:

50 years ago for Africa is more like 200 years ago for the Western world, talkless of 150 years ago.

Even today's Africa is like 100 years ago for the West.

Which globally are you talking about?

Which roads, expressways, hospitals, and literacy were the norm globally?

Do you know the meaning of global?

How many people were going to school in the world 50 years ago?

Whether you like it or not, the colonialists transformed Africa in the 100 years they were ruling the continent.

Apart from comparing China to Africa, please educate me on the "great migration" of Indians and Chinese you are talking about in the 1940s and 50s.

agbameta:
Ibadan did not ask the military and incompetent people to show up and disrupt their progress and future so why blame them?

The same Ibadan folks are the ones standing up to take back what's theirs today.

Rossikk: You do realise the west played a major part in that state of affairs having directly ruled the continent for a century?

Rossikk:
A lot more than you seem to imagine. In 1960 world literacy level was 60.7%. Sub Saharan Africa was at less than 15% in 1960 (after 63 years of colonial rule), and by 1970 it was 27%. Today it is about 60%.

http://www.unesco.org/education/GMR2006/full/chapt7_eng.pdf

Rossikk:
They did NO SUCH THING. If Africa is ''transformed'' today, it was ''transformed'' by AFRICANS AFTER INDEPENDENCE. The only PLACE ''TRANSFORMED'' by colonialists was SOUTH AFRICA and that was because they were white resident populations living there.

Rossikk:
Go on Google and read up on it. The Indian population in the UK saw a huge rise in the 40s and 50s owing to mass migration of educated Indians to Europe in search of greener pastures. Unlike in black Africa, the colonialists invested in mass education and universities in India. The oldest Indian universities are dated to the 1860s! Same as South Africa by the way. Nigerians could not partake of those early migrations because they were mostly uneducated villagers.

Sagamite:

They left it in a better state than the baboons that took over and are still in places like Aso Rock today.

Without the white people, Africa would not only have been 50-100 years backwards, they would have been close to 200 years backwards.

You forgot some few things.

By then, Europe had over 400 years of colonisation of India.