The Holy Bible from God Commanded Mosees

1."All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.  (From the NIV Bible, 2 Chronicles 15:13)".

2. Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.  (Numbers 31:17-18)"

This girls were as young as 3yrs...

Do u Condemn this acts of moses YES OR NO

You All should be ashamed ogf yourselves...Recently..@Raymacblue posted contradiction in the bible..So Many views but no reply...I challenged him to post that of the Qur'an and by Allah,he conceded that we tried and we killed off all his allegations...Why do you guys shy away from important questions..We've been discussing Jihad In Islam,You qouted from the Qur'an,I accepted...I explained to you the meaning of the revelation but u didn't accept.Now I qouted from the bible,@ least say something against what I have written,is it that the verse I've qouted is not in the bible or I'm misinterpreting it... don't shy away when challenges faces your belief,if u refute this claims,it'll only make u stronger in faith....DO u Condemn the commandment god gave to moses in the book of Numbers?....YES or NO....

hmmmm... So many Abu jahl of our time.

dareabiola98: The Holy Bible from God Commanded Mosees

1."All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.  (From the NIV Bible, 2 Chronicles 15:13)".

2. Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.  (Numbers 31:17-18)"

This girls were as young as 3yrs...

Do u Condemn this acts of moses YES OR NO

You All should be ashamed ogf yourselves...Recently..@Raymacblue posted contradiction in the bible..So Many views but no reply...I challenged him to post that of the Qur'an and by Allah,he conceded that we tried and we killed off all his allegations...Why do you guys shy away from important questions..We've been discussing Jihad In Islam,You qouted from the Qur'an,I accepted...I explained to you the meaning of the revelation but u didn't accept.Now I qouted from the bible,@ least say something against what I have written,is it that the verse I've qouted is not in the bible or I'm misinterpreting it... don't shy away when challenges faces your belief,if u refute this claims,it'll only make u stronger in faith....DO u Condemn the commandment god gave to moses in the book of Numbers?....YES or NO....

Nobody is shying away from anything. First, you are attempting to derail the thread and take it in another direction. Second, you don't want to answer the question we asked you. You are asking for a Yes and No question; I asked you the same and you haven't answered. The debate about Moses and the wars in the Old Testament can be a thread on it's own; I am willing to debate you anytime you want.

You picked a certain verse in the Bible and decided to make that your theme. You forget that there are NUMEROUS wars in the Bible. Remember David, he was a man of war - He killed Goliath yet he he committed adultery with Bathsheba and had her husband killed to cover his sin - God's judgement was swift.

The prophet Ezekiel does not spare the wicked in his denunciations, he also records Yahweh's words of grace: "If a wicked man turns away from all the sins he has committed and keeps all my decrees and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. Do I take any pleasure in the death of the wicked? declares the Sovereign Lord. Rather, am I not pleased when they turn from their ways and live?" (Ezekiel 18:21, 23). And he goes on in verse 32, "For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign Lord. Repent and live!" And there is this compelling verse recorded in 2 Chronicles 16:9, "For the eyes of the Lord range throughout the earth to strengthen those whose hearts are fully committed to him."

All these descriptions of God depict him as unwavering in retribution on evil, though he takes no delight in it, and also unwavering in love and encouragement toward those hearts are turned toward him. God's obvious desire is that sinners should repent and live. But there comes a point where evil is finally intolerable and wiped from off the earth.

We must see these terrible retributions in their historical setting. The spread of wickedness was so pervasive that immorality, degradation, and barbarity invaded every facet of life. Children were sacrificed to pagan gods. Male and female prostitution took place right in the temple as part of the religious rites. Idol worship was rife and the society wholly contaminated. This evil was contagious and God's people were in danger of being infected as well. God's awesome judgement was finally unleashed.

You also forgot Noah and the flood when God destroyed the world because of Sin and wickedness - YOU SHOULD ASK ME IF I CONDEMN THAT AS WELL

khattab02: hmmmm... So many Abu jahl of our time.

Since you are not ignorant of Islam and it's history - please enlighten us

King of Jordan Hosts Conference to Protect Persecuted Middle East Christians, 'Preserve Historical Arab Christian Identity'

I have always liked the king of Jordan and it is great to see him acknowledge the problem Arab Christians face and the contribution they have made. I do not agree with everything said in the article but as I regularly pray for my Christian brothers and sisters in the Middle East I see this conference as a good thing. Some Muslims here on NL will tell you that Christians are not persecuted in the Middle East

========================================

A two day conference addressing the current instability of the Middle East's Christians population has concluded in Amman, Jordan Wednesday. Jordan's King Abdullah and the King's Chief Advisor for Religious and Cultural Affairs, Prince Ghazi bin Muhammad, convened the event in response to the intense wave of violence that Christians, especially those in Syria and Egypt, have faced in recent months.

"[The Royal Family of Jordan] wants to gather opinions and information because they want to offer a concrete contribution to the solution of the problems regarding the plight of so many indigenous Christian communities in the Middle East," Archbishop Maroun Laham told Fides Agency.

The conference's two hosts and keynote speakers addressed how Christians are being increasingly marginalized, and how they have been left vulnerable since the Arab Spring. They also discussed the urgent need for Christians to be legitimately accepted by the rest of the Arab world.

King Abdullah stressed to participants that "Arab Christians have had a key role in building the Arab society and in the defense of our nation" that their protection was "not a matter of courtesy, but a duty," The Vatican Radio reported.

Further, the ruler also argued that the current violent and divisive climate of the Middle East mandated that Muslims and Christians work with each other. The King identified Arab Christians as particularly "able to understand more than anyone else Islam and its true values…which preaches tolerance and moderation and rejects extremism and isolationism."

The King expressed his own support for Christianity, basing it on the commonalities he found between the faith and his own.

"We support every effort to preserve the historical Arab Christian identity, and safeguard the right to worship freely, based on a rule in both the Christian and Islamic faiths that underlines love of God and love of neighbor, as embodied in the "A Common Word" initiative," he said.

"Arab Christians are suffering not only because of the blind and deaf sedition that everyone has suffered from in certain Arab countries since the beginning of what is incorrectly called the Arab Spring, but also merely because they are Christians," Prince Ghazi told conference attendees.

Dozens of religious leaders from the region discussed the challenges currently facing Christians in Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Palestine, and Jordan, including kidnapping, violence, and the vandalism and destruction of their institutions. Leaders also shared their concerns about the future of the region's Christian population in light of the increasing numbers of Christians fleeing the region to protect themselves and their families.

While the Pope, who met personally with King Abdullah in a meeting last week, did not attend the conference, he sent several delegates on his behalf.

Archbishop Giorgio Lingua, a Vatican representative was surprised and encouraged to hear the conference's Muslim participants recognize Christians as Arabs and accept the idea "that Christians are not guests or second class citizens."

"More than tolerance, we must stress citizenship," he added, reiterating a value that former Pope Benedict XVI had stressed during his papacy. In a visit to Lebanon in 2012, Benedict argued that Christians must enjoy "full citizenship" that entitled them to religious freedom and the ability to worship as they pleased "without [endangering] one's life."

Lingua also noted that many Christians were discouraged by recent suggestions of international military intervention in Syria.

"Many of them were asking to the foreign countries not to interfere in the political affairs of the countries of this region," the Archbishop said. "They are calling for a dialogue and if the international community can do something, it is to promote dialogue and reconciliation instead of military intervention."

Source - http://www.christianpost.com/news/king-of-jordan-hosts-conference-to-protect-persecuted-middle-east-christians-preserve-historical-arab-christian-identity-103778/

At least Someone is now talking in view of my point but u didn't talk about moses though....I asked about moses....When u qouted from the Qur'an,Did I not explain and refute ur claims...But the ahadith is something different(ur not a muslim so you wouldn't know)..If u could read the science of hadith...u'd understand that...unless a muslim is very sure of a narration,he has the right to accept/decline an hadith.Unlike the Qur'an,the hadith can be reviewed...The divine scriptures is the Qur'an and Injeel(Gospel of Jesus(pbuh)...Its not right that you curse and abuse a prophet...he's older than your great grandfathers!!!..I know alexis would agree with me,he know the bible very well...but doesn't want to face its challenges..I can't comment on an ahadith I have not read its science,that was why I didn't comment on those hadith.....I wish u understand.But we have a standard and that's the qur'an and injeel...So as u qoute me from the Qur'an,I'll qoute from the bible...SO I ASK AGAIN....on the actions of moses,God has the right to kill..and no man should take an innocent life...everything is fair in war...these actions of moses,Maybe the way I've been asking has put u in a tight Corner...So I'll ask in another dimension

dareabiola98

At least Someone is now talking in view of my point but u didn't talk about moses though....I asked about moses....When u qouted from the Qur'an,Did I not explain and refute ur claims...But the ahadith is something different(ur not a muslim so you wouldn't know)..If u could read the science of hadith...u'd understand that...unless a muslim is very sure of a narration,he has the right to accept/decline an hadith.Unlike the Qur'an,the hadith can be reviewed...The divine scriptures is the Qur'an and Injeel(Gospel of Jesus(pbuh)...Its not right that you curse and abuse a prophet...he's older than your great grandfathers!!!..I know alexis would agree with me,he know the bible very well...but doesn't want to face its challenges..I can't comment on an ahadith I have not read its science,that was why I didn't comment on those hadith.....I wish u understand.But we have a standard and that's the qur'an and injeel...So as u qoute me from the Qur'an,I'll qoute from the bible...SO I ASK AGAIN....on the actions of moses,God has the right to kill..and no man should take an innocent life...everything is fair in war...these actions of moses,Maybe the way I've been asking has put u in a tight Corner...So I'll ask in another dimension

You seem to be sounding more objective now . Unfortunately, the Quran and hadiths are materials that anyone can read and you don't have to be a muslim to understand it. I was born in a Muslim family, went to the mosque since I was a kid and come from a strict Shiite background. So, your statement on not been a Muslim doesn't count.

How is calling Mohammad a thief and a murderer a curse? If I stole, and you called me a thief - is that an insult or the truth. The issue here is that your religion is sentimental to you - it is not to me. My intention is not to offend you - HOWEVER that will not stop me from saying what I want to say. NO RELIGION is prevent me from speaking my mind of exercising my fundamental right to free speech.

The issue of a Hadith been authentic and authoritative is not the issue here. For example, several Muslim scholars or authorities can issue a Fatwa and millions of muslims will carry out those fatwas and believe them and do them - others won't. Typical example - the Shiite have a Quran that has 115 Surahs and the Sunnis have 114 Surahs - Will I have one or the other is not the same?

So, the question of Moses and the commandment he made is not the topic of this thread. If it was me - would I have done it - probably not. I hope that gives you some form of closure on this topic

The Holy Bible from God Commanded Mosees

1."All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.  (From the NIV Bible, 2 Chronicles 15:13)".

2. Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.  (Numbers 31:17-18)"

This girls were as young as 3yrs...

What do you think of these acts of Moses and the other ones you've stated in you last qoute...I want to know what you think...Saul also killed 42children by the bear,David took many lives,And so on I guess u know it better than I do...So tell...Do u condemn these actions?

I didn't ask for what you would have done....can u ple give me a copy of that qur'an with 115 surahs....If u want to know about Islam...U don't go to sites that post fake hadith and quran verses...and fake news...How lost are you...does the bible not warn against following conjecture...christian indeed...please send me ur adreess...I need a copy of that qur'an...I'll pay you 50x the money you bought it.waiting for the address

alexis: dareabiola98



You seem to be sounding more objective now . Unfortunately, the Quran and hadiths are materials that anyone can read and you don't have to be a muslim to understand it. I was born in a Muslim family, went to the mosque since I was a kid and come from a strict Shiite background. So, your statement on not been a Muslim doesn't count.

How is calling Mohammad a thief and a murderer a curse? If I stole, and you called me a thief - is that an insult or the truth. The issue here is that your religion is sentimental to you - it is not to me. My intention is not to offend you - HOWEVER that will not stop me from saying what I want to say. NO RELIGION is prevent me from speaking my mind of exercising my fundamental right to free speech.

The issue of a Hadith been authentic and authoritative is not the issue here. For example, several Muslim scholars or authorities can issue a Fatwa and millions of muslims will carry out those fatwas and believe them and do them - others won't. Typical example - the Shiite have a Quran that has 115 Surahs and the Sunnis have 114 Surahs - Will I have one or the other is not the same?

So, the question of Moses and the commandment he made is not the topic of this thread. If it was me - would I have done it - probably not. I hope that gives you some form of closure on this topic

dareabiola98: The Holy Bible from God Commanded Mosees

1."All who would not seek the LORD, the God of Israel, were to be put to death, whether small or great, man or woman.  (From the NIV Bible, 2 Chronicles 15:13)".

2. Now kill all the boys [innocent kids]. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.  (Numbers 31:17-18)"

This girls were as young as 3yrs...

What do you think of these acts of Moses and the other ones you've stated in you last qoute...I want to know what you think...Saul also killed 42children by the bear,David took many lives,And so on I guess u know it better than I do...So tell...Do u condemn these actions?

[size=15pt]REPEATING THE SAME THING YET EXPECTING A DIFFERENT RESPONSE[/size]

How Can people be so DOgmatic...what are schools for,how are my posts not related with the thread....u talk about Islam,obviously u want muslims to defend...And we did only that u did not accept...ur the 1 avoiding the big question here...If u wouldn't comprehend let me simplify things...If we wre arguing abou how much Rice I eat...I'd tell u,Oh! I don't eat more than two plates..Then u be like! Wow,ur such a glutton,How could you eat that much,that's wasteful blah blah!...To my suprise I had seen u eatin 4 plates the previous day compared to my tw plates,would I not raise the question...You ate 4 plates and I saw you,so what's that?.....U see dat question is a very big question such as this that I'm asking you..How could you be Afraid to be proud of God's teaching through the prophet in ur scripture,u don't want to face it and u'd go to church next sunday and dance...Yet there this verse in the bible u have not clarified..Do you people really Ponder. Unless you tell me that God was wrong to have commanded moses and all those prophets's in the bible to carry out those massacre they did carry out....U HAVE NO POINT...think about it now...or am I the only 1 doing the thinking here..the bible said this and that...I want clearifications...tell me..Oh! It didn't say so,or that wast what god meant

dareabiola98: I didn't ask for what you would have done....can u ple give me a copy of that qur'an with 115 surahs....If u want to know about Islam...U don't go to sites that post fake hadith and quran verses...and fake news...How lost are you...does the bible not warn against following conjecture...christian indeed...please send me ur adreess...I need a copy of that qur'an...I'll pay you 50x the money you bought it.waiting for the address

Hahaha, you sound like a Sunni Muslim. Please read on the Surah of Succession before you display your ignorance . First, you said I wasn't a muslim and I don't know anything about Islam, now you are claiming I visit sites that give me wrong information.

Bros, I don't need your money . Take time and do your research

I am giving out the information totally free to all because I want our bank accounts to explode for good this year. Pls. don't be in a hurry to visit the site, create time to completely read through before taking any decision. http:///14bNxhP. I WISH U WHAT U WISH URSELF.

dareabiola98

How Can people be so DOgmatic...what are schools for,how are my posts not related with the thread....u talk about Islam,obviously u want muslims to defend...And we did only that u did not accept...ur the 1 avoiding the big question here...If u wouldn't comprehend let me simplify things...If we wre arguing abou how much Rice I eat...I'd tell u,Oh! I don't eat more than two plates..Then u be like! Wow,ur such a glutton,How could you eat that much,that's wasteful blah blah!...To my suprise I had seen u eatin 4 plates the previous day compared to my tw plates,would I not raise the question...You ate 4 plates and I saw you,so what's that?.....U see dat question is a very big question such as this that I'm asking you..How could you be Afraid to be proud of God's teaching through the prophet in ur scripture,u don't want to face it and u'd go to church next sunday and dance...Yet there this verse in the bible u have not clarified..Do you people really Ponder. Unless you tell me that God was wrong to have commanded moses and all those prophets's in the bible to carry out those massacre they did carry out....U HAVE NO POINT...think about it now...or am I the only 1 doing the thinking here..the bible said this and that...I want clearifications...tell me..Oh! It didn't say so,or that wast what god meant

Go ahead again and read the topic - Crucified Again -exposing Islams New War On Christians. The theme of the thread is Christian persecution and not on wars in the Bible. If you have ever debated, you will know that you are REQUIRED to stick to the underlining theme. For example, you are to provide PROOF that what I am saying is not true.

Again, here is your analogy:

Me: Bros, you are a thief, I caught you selling
You: So what, your great grand father was a thief too
Me: We are talking about what you did and not what my grand-father did
You: It doesn't matter, your grand-father was a thief so that is all I know

I have tried to explain to you that your question regarding Moses (while valid) has nothing to do with this thread. Yet you keep on insisting

Who asked u for a site....3yr old children post in sites...Have you Seen the Qur'an....that's my Question...That Qur'an which u claim has 115 surahs..do u have it at home...I'd come collect it...Mind you,2 of the 4 copies of the Qur'an written 1400+ years ago is still existing today...Tested and confirmed by UNESCO...in 2 different museums..Anything outside that context is not a Qur'an...U see how I deal with you guyz...it shows I'm very sure of my faith...To show you that you know nothing and u only follow blindly...as u have been dodging my question since..u raised this topic I didn't.So I ask you..Where is the Original Bible in Aramaic? U'll see them starting to qoute out of context now o..they wouny answer the question cos they don't know

This Guy!!!...Who do u follow..u follow jesus and that's the core of ur religion,,,annd jesus confirmed all the actions to be right...So if u say God was wrong to have commanded mosses to do waht he did,why do u believe in God...u have conceded to me with ur analogy...what moses did was wrong because u can't do It...So ur God in the bible was wrong because he commanded it...So where does your belief stem from?

alexis: dareabiola98



Go ahead again and read the topic - Crucified Again -exposing Islams New War On Christians. The theme of the thread is Christian persecution and not on wars in the Bible. If you have ever debated, you will know that you are REQUIRED to stick to the underlining theme. For example, you are to provide PROOF that what I am saying is not true.

Again, here is your analogy:

Me: Bros, you are a thief, I caught you selling
You: So what, your great grand father was a thief too
Me: We are talking about what you did and not what my grand-father did
You: It doesn't matter, your grand-father was a thief so that is all I know

I have tried to explain to you that your question regarding Moses (while valid) has nothing to do with this thread. Yet you keep on insisting

alexis: dareabiola98

Again, here is your analogy:

Me: Bros, you are a thief, I caught you selling
You: So what, your great grand father was a thief too
Me: We are talking about what you did and not what my grand-father did
You: It doesn't matter, your grand-father was a thief so that is all I know

I have tried to explain to you that your question regarding Moses (while valid) has nothing to do with this thread. Yet you keep on insisting

The analogy you give is not that of a believer,unlike what ur grandfather does...which u can choose to/not to Do...The commandment of God is Compulsory..IF he commanded in the bible that what I qouted is right...the it is...If u don't believe it to be...u should probably be an atheist

[size=15pt]THE SURA OF SUCCESSION[/size]

The Sura of Succession (omitted from every Sunni Qur'an) is in every Shiite Qur'an, consisting of 5 verses:

In the name of Allah, the merciful, the compassionate:

1. O ye who believe! Believe on the prophet and the Protector.
2. Who is one from the other
3. And I am who hears and knows
4. Those who believed and did the good deeds will have the joy of paradise
5. Praise the glory of thy Lord, and Ali is one of the witness

The family feud between Mohammad and Ali resulted in Muhammad deleting the Sura of Succession that intended to give the caliphate to Ali. Please note: The backers of Ali (the Shiites) have insisted on the existence of the Sura of Succession and recite if from their Qu'ran even to this day.

When Caliph "Uthman gathered the Qu'ran, he refused to include that Sura, and insisted on deleting it. But it was included in Ibn Mas'oud's copy of the Quran and it is in the Qu'ran that is read by Iranians and all the Shiites in general. They number about 40% of all muslims. Therefore: The Quran read by the Shiite has 115 suras and the Quran read by the Sunnis have 114 suras. This discrepancy is the result of the important strife that took place after the raid of Muraiasa, in the 5th year of Hijra.

I urge you to do more reading on Islams history.

dareabiola98

Who asked u for a site....3yr old children post in sites...Have you Seen the Qur'an....that's my Question...That Qur'an which u claim has 115 surahs..do u have it at home...I'd come collect it...Mind you,2 of the 4 copies of the Qur'an written 1400+ years ago is still existing today...Tested and confirmed by UNESCO...in 2 different museums..Anything outside that context is not a Qur'an...U see how I deal with you guyz...it shows I'm very sure of my faith...To show you that you know nothing and u only follow blindly...as u have been dodging my question since..u raised this topic I didn't.So I ask you..Where is the Original Bible in Aramaic? U'll see them starting to qoute out of context now o..they wouny answer the question cos they don't know

Ignorance is indeed a curse - How many times has the Quran been edited and updated by your brothers in Saudi Arabia? . Are you aware that the first compilation of the Quran was burnt? Mohammad never wrote the Quran, after his death - people that remembered what he said came gave oral accounts of what they remembered and what he said - So, imagine if someone forgot something, or if a goat ate parts of the Quran as recorded by Aisha (Mohammad's wife). Yet, you come here and tell me the Quran was made in heaven even before the world was created.

dareabiola98: This Guy!!!...Who do u follow..u follow jesus and that's the core of ur religion,,,annd jesus confirmed all the actions to be right...So if u say God was wrong to have commanded mosses to do waht he did,why do u believe in God...u have conceded to me with ur analogy...what moses did was wrong because u can't do It...So ur God in the bible was wrong because he commanded it...So where does your belief stem from?

Who sounds like an atheist now? . I knew exactly where you were going with this and wanted to cherry pick my words and prove ....... NOTHING

dareabiola98: The analogy you give is not that of a believer,unlike what ur grandfather does...which u can choose to/not to Do...The commandment of God is Compulsory..IF he commanded in the bible that what I qouted is right...the it is...If u don't believe it to be...u should probably be an atheist

The analogy I give is exactly what you are doing - CONFIRMING THAT THERE IS JUSTIFICATION OF VIOLENCE IN ISLAM BY REFERRING TO WARS IN THE BIBLE

Back to the theme of this thread - At least our Muslim brothers will give us time to focus on what we intended to talk about. Whenever we talk about Islam persecution on Christians, we are called so many names i.e. Bigots, Islamphobist etc.

Here is a video showing Muslim Brotherhood supporters attacking a Christian Church - Video from Egypt shows Muslim mob attacking Christian church, taking down cross

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/08/30/video-from-egypt-shows-muslim-mob-attacking-christian-church-taking-down-cross/#ixzz2fEKFXvmR

For our muslim brothers to address these issues - they will tell you that there are wars in the Bible; as if that makes burning the church fine

A PARADIGMATIC EXAMPLE:THE COPTIC CHURCH OF EGYPT

Tracing the fate of churches across the thousands of square miles of formerly Christian lands conquered by Islam is not my intention. Due to the strong presence there, Egypt is ideally suited to illustrate Christian persecution & dhimmi status under Islam, both past and present.

The history or plight, of Egypt's Coptic Orthodox Church is well documented. The History of the Patriarchate of the Egyptian Church for instance, a multivolume chronicle begun under Coptic Bishop Severus ibn al-Mugaffa in the 10th century, records innumerable massacres and persecutions over the centuries, from destroyed churches to crucified Christians to rape and murdered nuns.

Let us read the accounts of Taqi al-Din al-Maqrizi (1364 - 1442), the most authoritative Muslim scholar of Egyptian history in the Middle East, and no friend to Christians. In his account, things appear relatively quiet during the 1st century of Islam's occupation of Egypt (641-741), no doubt because Christians overwhelmed their Muslim conquerors. (Because of the numerically superiority of the Christians in the early years after the Muslim conquest of Egypt, Copts frequently and sometimes successfully rebelled against their Islamic overlords). Indeed, there appears to have been enough leeway that some churches were even being restored, for we read that in 735 "the Bu-Mina church outside Cairo was restored, for which reason a great multitude of Muslims rose against... the Emir of Egypt at that time"

By 767, however, "heavier hardships than ever fell upon the Christians, who were obliged to eat the[ir] dead; while their new churches in Egypt were destroyed. The church of Mary anent [next to] that of Abu Senuda in Egypt was also pulled down, as well as that in the ward of Constantine, which the Christians entreated Suliman bin Ali, Emir of Egypt, to spare for 50,000 dinars; but he would not. By 845, al-Mutawakal ordered Christian churches to be pulled down. In 912, "the great church in Alexandria, known as that of the Resurrection, was burnt down". In 939, "the Muslims made another rising in the city of Askalom, where they demolished the Greek Church of Mary, and plundered what was in it.

Egypt’s Christians Caught in Cross Fire - Seen as supporting the military's ouster of Mohamed Morsi, they're finding churches burned and cars ablaze

Drenched in sweat and covered in ash, 24-year-old Miriam Nagi has spent the past eight days mopping soot inside St. George’s Church.

She’s cleaning up after a fire raged there last week, turning a once gleaming Egyptian spiritual center into a postapocalyptic backdrop of ruin and despair.

“The terrorists tried to ruin my church, my home, my people,” Nagi says, using the edge of her charcoaled sleeve to wipe tears from her eyes. “But God will prevail against the terrorist Muslim Brothers.”

St. George’s Church in Assiut, 320 km south of Cairo, was one of more than 60 churches attacked in a wave of revenge against Christians after the military’s bloody dispersal of two Islamist protest camps in Cairo this month, which killed hundreds of supporters of the ousted President. Egypt’s Christians, who make up about 10% of the Muslim-majority country, have been caught in the political cross fire and found themselves scapegoats for supporting the military’s ouster of President Mohamed Morsi of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Outside St. George’s, traces of a low-decibel civil war ring out across the long-neglected city of Assiut, a dusty Islamist stronghold that is home to a robust Christian minority. Scores of cars owned by Christians have been set ablaze, their skeletons still lingering on the city’s narrow roads as reminders of a derailed popular uprising that once awed the world just 2½ years ago. Church walls have been emblazoned with “Morsi is my President” graffiti and buildings have been tagged “Boycott Nesaara,” an Arabic term for Christians that’s taken on a derogatory air.

Amid a heavy military-led crackdown on the Muslim Brotherhood, with many leaders now jailed, Egypt’s government and media have declared a war on terrorism, blaming the organization for coordinating nationwide attacks on churches and police stations. The military-installed government has used the attacks as fuel for their high-octane campaign against the once triumphant Brotherhood, but some have cast doubt on whether the Brotherhood was directly behind the attacks. And some have rebuked security forces for doing more to publicize and leverage the incidents — than prevent them.

“For weeks, everyone could see these attacks coming, with Muslim Brotherhood members accusing Coptic Christians of a role in [Morsi’s] ouster, but the authorities did little or nothing to prevent them,” John Storm, acting Middle East director at Human Rights Watch, said in a statement on Thursday. The organization documented 42 church attacks, a majority in which security forces were absent before and during the attack.

When Father Boles Beshay of St. Michael’s Church in Assiut saw an angry mob at his church’s gate, he said he called his police contacts, but no one answered. The priest and other members of the congregation say the mob removed a crucifix from the church’s gates, stomping on it and attempting to enter the church compound with gasoline. He said if it weren’t for the intervention of a local Muslim man, the church would have been burned just like the other three down the street.

“It’s odd why the police didn’t answer me, why they didn’t come,” he says with a nervous laugh. “I know they were busy fighting terrorism across the country, but I do think it’s strange. But at the end of the day, I’ve seen all the videos on television, and know who was behind these attacks. Christians are always the victims.”

For their part, Brotherhood leaders have condemned the attacks, and vehemently denied their involvement.

“These are the same tools that Mubarak used to strengthen his regime,” says Galal Abdel Sadek, who heads the Muslim Brotherhood in Assiut. “For years he acted like he protected the Christians, but he just used them to politically divide his own people. And it worked.” He says fifteen senior members in Assiut have been arrested in the past week alone.

The Gama’a Islamiya, one of Egypt’s most historically conservative and violent groups, which has since renounced violence, also stands by the Brotherhood’s claims of innocence.

“Islamists have nothing to do with this,” says one member who refused to meet in person for fear of arrest and said he’s since relocated outside Assiut after security forces ransacked other members’ homes. “Who do these attacks benefit? The answer is easy, and it’s not us.”

But conflicting rhetoric from the Brotherhood — mostly in Arabic corners of the Web seemingly far from their frequent English blitzes to Western media — underscore the deep distrust Egyptians now have in an organization that won a series of post-Mubarak elections.

On the day of the attacks, the Muslim Brotherhood’s Freedom and Justice Party Helwan branch posted a statement on the group’s Facebook page lambasting Pope Tawadros II, the religious leader of the Egyptian Coptic community, for advocating Morsi’s removal and accused him of sponsoring groups to storm mosques. “After all this people ask why they burn the churches,” the statement read. “For every action there is a reaction.”

Over the past year, some Muslim clerics have dialed up their vitriol against Christians in inflammatory tirades — like one in which Safwat Hegazy, a Brotherhood supporter, warned Christians not to join mounting opposition forces against Morsi. “Our redline is Morsi’s legitimacy,” he warned in a speech several months ago. “Whoever dares splash it with water, we will splash him with blood.” According to Egyptian media, he was arrested on Wednesday, en route to Libya.

Many Christians in Egypt, especially in the rural south, say the attacks are part of a long and painful history of systemic discrimination and sectarian violence in Egypt.

Despite long-standing Egyptian denial, sectarian angst is deeply rooted in society, said Michael Hanna, a senior fellow at the Century Foundation research institute in New York City. Copts are underrepresented across Egypt’s public sphere, in its judiciary, diplomatic corps, academia and almost all electoral bodies. What’s more, Christians face state-imposed restrictions on the right to build and maintain churches, regulations that Muslims don’t face when building mosques.

“There is a wound in my heart, always, from living in Egypt as a Christian, as a second-class citizen,” says Youssef Sidhoum, editor of the Coptic newspaper al-Watani.

“The attacks from the Muslim Brotherhood are painful, and I don’t want to underestimate the pain I feel, but we must move on,” he says. “Now isn’t the time to cry. We must protect the national solidarity of June 30, the day we took down Morsi … the day the revolution became alive again against terrorism.”

But the revolution feels more like a bygone dream in Minya, a neglected region 240 km south of Cairo, where Christians make up almost 35% of the population. Tucked away in a tiny trash-strewn maze of crumbling buildings, not far from two recently burned churches, Evon Loga Gabrieul stood at the gravesite of her son, whom she calls “one of Egypt’s most gentle martyrs.”

Seventeen-year-old Ayman Labib, a Christian, was beaten to death two years ago by Muslim classmates in a murder case that punctuates long-standing social tensions between Christians and Muslims in southern Egypt. Two boys have been convicted of his death and are now serving three-year prison sentences — hardly justice, the community says, for a life lost and others irreversibly shattered.

“I’m not saying Mubarak was good,” Evon says, while stroking a pocket-size cross. “But he was right when he warned us against these people. He was right when he locked them away.”

The Labib family said they’re desperately trying to seek political asylum. They have tried to visit the American embassy in Cairo, but unreliable trains to the capital have been halted, and with a state-imposed national curfew of 7 p.m., a five-hour drive to the capital is often impossible. For Nabil, Ayman’s father, missing work for even a few days takes a severe toll on the impoverished family of five (more than 40% of Egyptians earn less than $2 a day).

Since last week’s attacks, the family says they’ve only left their tiny apartment for work and small errands, secluding themselves a bit more each day, more out of melancholy than fear.

Sitting under an Egyptian flag, sun-starched and pallid, Ayman’s older brother Antonius peered at his late brother’s notebooks still stacked neatly as though he’d return at any moment to pore over them. The family had hoped Ayman, a shining academic star of the village, would be the first from the family to attend college — a rare ticket out of a village weighed down by postponed aspirations, soon curdled and long forgotten.

“They kill my brother, they kill my churches,” he says. “A revolution? We never had a revolution. Too many people are lying to themselves. Too many people are sleeping for this to be a revolution.”

Through one of the family’s few windows, the village’s church bells rang, marking another day — one no different than the last for a family, and a country, struggling to stay awake.

http://world.time.com/2013/08/26/egypts-christians-caught-in-crossfire/

jazakallahu khairan dareabiola. Impressive, shiite doctrine. Now I know where u are coming from and where you are heading.

That Rasullullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam deleted a surah, when Allah baari taala has told us in Surah Al-Haqqah 44-47 '' and if the messenger 'peace be upon him' had forged a false saying concerning us, we surely would have seized him by his right hand and then we certainly would have cut off his life artery, and none of u could have withheld us from punishing him'' Allah azwajal clearly tell us in that surah, if nabi kareem(SAW) had forged or changed anytin revealed to him, he would have surely punish him and there is nothing we would have done to save him from that. I will give u another but Good nite for now. As salamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, may peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon you.

khattab02: That Rasullullah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam deleted a surah, when Allah baari taala has told us in Surah Al-Haqqah 44-47 '' and if the messenger 'peace be upon him' had forged a false saying concerning us, we surely would have seized him by his right hand and then we certainly would have cut off his life artery, and none of u could have withheld us from punishing him'' Allah azwajal clearly tell us in that surah, if nabi kareem(SAW) had forged or changed anytin revealed to him, he would have surely punish him and there is nothing we would have done to save him from that. I will give u another but Good nite for now. As salamu alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh, may peace and blessings of Almighty God be upon you.

Thanks mate, may the Creator of Heaven and Earth and our Savior and Lord Jesus Christ guide you to the truth and open your eyes of understanding - Amen

khattab02: Allah baari taala has told us in Surah Al-Haqqah 44-47 '' and if the messenger 'peace be upon him' had forged a false saying concerning us, we surely would have seized him by his right hand and then we certainly would have cut off his life artery, and none of u could have withheld us from punishing him'' Allah azwajal clearly tell us in that surah, if nabi kareem(SAW) had forged or changed anytin revealed to him, he would have surely punish him and there is nothing we would have done to save him from that.

This is just too funny.
What makes you think Muhammed couldn't have made up that verse as well as the others?
If he was fabricating everything he siad to the Muslims do you think he would have told you he was doing so?
He would never have admitted that he was making things up, instead he would tell you verses that would make you think he was a very honest man, just like the verse you quoted above.

@alexis, mehn Ʊr d bomb, bin followin d thread n refused to comment cos no mata ao hard u try 2 xplain ds muslim dudes will lift words out of Ʊr sentences....pls u r doin a great job enlightenin mee on d issue cos v had ma own share of dr wickedness wit ma frnd too.... §Φ pls forget dis dreabiola or so n let's focus on d thread. They seee not neither will they understand, they walk on in darkness because d god ☀̤̣̈̇f dis world has blinded them, §Φ hearin δε̲̣̣̣̥γ̲̣̣̥ hear ♌φ†̥......so nomata how hard u try to explain dey will neva undastnd cos THE SCRIPTURES CANNOT BE BROKEN...weldone mate

Today the islamists in Egypt have declared that since Sisi is arresting them then the Copts will be targeted in revenge attacks. Sisi knows the Brotherhood is the enemy, the enemy being cowardly as it is wants to attack the Copts. The enemy of Sisi are those who strictly follow the quran and want to impose the sharia in Egypt. Who can advice the brotherhood to stop targetting the copts in egypt? Which muslim here will condemn the Muslim brotherhood?

basilico: Today the islamists in Egypt have declared that since Sisi is arresting them then the Copts will be targeted in revenge attacks. Sisi knows the Brotherhood is the enemy, the enemy being cowardly as it is wants to attack the Copts. The enemy of Sisi are those who strictly follow the quran and want to impose the sharia in Egypt. Who can advice the brotherhood to stop targetting the copts in egypt? Which muslim here will condemn the Muslim brotherhood?

Tell Muslim like vexacool what is happening, he will tell you Christians are the oppressors . I have been pretty busy but there is a lot of to narrate and write about Christian persecution in Muslim lands

NL member:

This is just too funny.
What makes you think Muhammed couldn't have made up that verse as well as the others?
If he was fabricating everything he siad to the Muslims do you think he would have told you he was doing so?
He would never have admitted that he was making things up, instead he would tell you verses that would make you think he was a very honest man, just like the verse you quoted above.

I have given you already in the verse you qouted me above. If you think he changed or forged anything and that is what you believe fine no probs ' Laa Ikraaha fid-Diin'. When death visits us, we will all know who is right or wrong or we wait for Qiyammah. Death is Only an Admonition.