Welcome, Guest: Join Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / New
Stats: 2,797,336 members, 6,683,522 topics. Date: Thursday, 20 January 2022 at 10:22 AM

Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? - Car Talk (3) - Nairaland

Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Car Talk / Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? (20398 Views)

Needed...a Good Mechanic For American Cars / A Story On Poor Safety Records Of Some American Cars / American Cars, What Is So Wrong With Them? (2) (3) (4)

(1) (2) (3) (Reply) (Go Down)

Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by elektra80: 8:59pm On Sep 14, 2013
KA24DETT: Back to the topic.
I will try to explain more about the resale value from a North american point of view. Please feel free to add or subtract from my analysis .

1. American cars have bad resale value because of RELIABILITY problems and quality. In the early 90s, cost cutting was high, labour costs and layoffs was the driving theme. Chrysler was using plastics in everything. Sitting in a chrysler was like sitting at toys r us. Hard, dark plastics everywhere. Same goes as ford and the general (GM).Head gasket failure in GM northstar engine, Ford 4 banger with broken pistons, chrysler 2.7 with bad oil flow design, bad suspension designs. Reliability suffered and people took their money to the japanese .
2. Rental returns Most of the rental fleet of Avis, National, enterprise are American cars. Most rental companies change their fleet every year or 2. This flooded the Used car market and drove down prices.

German . Mercedes benz in the quest to increase market share in Northamerica has to sell more cars. Mercedez benz has a car for every buyer. New money- C class. Old money - S class. Mad money - G wagon. Psychotic speed demon with class - S class AMG. Wife - ML class.
For every buyer out there, mercedes has a product for you.
In the quest for profit, Quality suffered in the mid 90s. Ranging from suspension problems to electrical problems . When CEO Dieter Zetsche took the helm at Mercedes-Benz, he says "the quality is lousy, the design is troubling". He followed this with some changes like slashing profit forecast and re investing the money into RnD. Mercedes benz Juergen Hubbert, board member responsible for Mercedes-Benz and Smart also said "We are working like hell to correct the glitches that have plagued the electronic control systems in Mercedes-Benz vehicles. We have to learn the right way to organise electronics and have the same reliability standards." Mercedes benz is a huge brand, no other automaker would be at the bottom of JD power and associates in reliability for years and stilll be moving products. Am pretty sure their quality has improved from yesteryears but only time will tell. For now, you can still pick up a 3-5yr old E class for the price of a New Camry and after 10 years, the camry will be worth more than the E class. (Resale comparing 13yr old E class and 10yr old camry). Thats the Power of reliability in the used car world


Good thing about this situation is that people who wouldnt afford a luxury car can buy a used one. If their purchase tend to be reliable against norms, they will be more inclined to buy a new mercedes. This brings more business to Mercedes.
On the downside, if the purchase turn out to be a failure, they will not buy any more mercedes and will scream from the roof top to their friends, family, mother , father that noone should buy mercedes. This perception will further reduce sales for mercedes. You know what they say, 'Success has more friends but failure is an orphan"


Well said. Really learnt a lot

1 Like

Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by chuqudy(m): 9:25pm On Sep 14, 2013
Go back and do a better research that this poo.
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by KA24DETT(m): 1:54am On Sep 15, 2013
chuqudy: Go back and do a better research that this poo.

I do not understand what you meant by your statement? Are you trying to say that the Op is wrong or his values does not make sense? If you have a better values than what the OP said, bring it out. If you read through the thread, you could see there are people for and against the OP aassesment and each side presenting their argument. We are all here to share knowledge.
You come into a thread with no meaningful contribution and you post that rubbish up there. Your statement is childish and uncalled for.

2 Likes

Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by Originalsly: 3:01am On Sep 15, 2013
Damn OP!... I can see you are armed to the teeth to defend your opinion! Great job...great thread.... interesting and informative comments.
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by Trac: 9:55am On Sep 15, 2013
KA24DETT: Back to the topic.
I will try to explain more about the resale value from a North american point of view. Please feel free to add or subtract from my analysis .

1. American cars have bad resale value because of RELIABILITY problems and quality. In the early 90s, cost cutting was high, labour costs and layoffs was the driving theme. Chrysler was using plastics in everything. Sitting in a chrysler was like sitting at toys r us. Hard, dark plastics everywhere. Same goes as ford and the general (GM).Head gasket failure in GM northstar engine, Ford 4 banger with broken pistons, chrysler 2.7 with bad oil flow design, bad suspension designs. Reliability suffered and people took their money to the japanese .
2. Rental returns Most of the rental fleet of Avis, National, enterprise are American cars. Most rental companies change their fleet every year or 2. This flooded the Used car market and drove down prices.

German . Mercedes benz in the quest to increase market share in Northamerica has to sell more cars. Mercedez benz has a car for every buyer. New money- C class. Old money - S class. Mad money - G wagon. Psychotic speed demon with class - S class AMG. Wife - ML class.
For every buyer out there, mercedes has a product for you.
In the quest for profit, Quality suffered in the mid 90s. Ranging from suspension problems to electrical problems . When CEO Dieter Zetsche took the helm at Mercedes-Benz, he says "the quality is lousy, the design is troubling". He followed this with some changes like slashing profit forecast and re investing the money into RnD. Mercedes benz Juergen Hubbert, board member responsible for Mercedes-Benz and Smart also said "We are working like hell to correct the glitches that have plagued the electronic control systems in Mercedes-Benz vehicles. We have to learn the right way to organise electronics and have the same reliability standards." Mercedes benz is a huge brand, no other automaker would be at the bottom of JD power and associates in reliability for years and stilll be moving products. Am pretty sure their quality has improved from yesteryears but only time will tell. For now, you can still pick up a 3-5yr old E class for the price of a New Camry and after 10 years, the camry will be worth more than the E class.. Thats the Power of reliability in the used car world


Good thing about this situation is that people who wouldnt afford a luxury car can buy a used one. If their purchase tend to be reliable against norms, they will be more inclined to buy a new mercedes. This brings more business to Mercedes.
On the downside, if the purchase turn out to be a failure, they will not buy any more mercedes and will scream from the roof top to their friends, family, mother , father that noone should buy mercedes. This perception will further reduce sales for mercedes. You know what they say, 'Success has more friends but failure is an orphan"

You are partially correct. The American is spot-on but incomplete. You did not add that the technologies used are old plus the magic word: profit. Ironically, GM happens to be one of the world's sophisticated manufacturers when it comes to research-and-development. You wouldn't know this except you are affiliated with the automotive industry. Yet it is difficult to prove.

However, your reference to Benz is slightly off and anecdotal. Over-engineering is ridiculously expensive and time consuming. Field-Analysis-Tests (F.A.T) with research took years, sometimes spanning over a decade-and-a-half. For this approach, a large "design-space" signified the core with unlimited money and understanding. They lived to what the slogan was and the sole reason why few models spanned the century. This philosophy is what attracted me to Mercedes in the 90's. To keep this within the discussion as Car-Talk, certain key-points will be omitted. By the 90's, the tide had turned beyond their control. In 1993, it was disclosed over-engineering will stop and the obvious reasons were used to buttress the fact. Certain models were still in production. The C Class was introduced as the signature to seal this new philosophy. In 1999, the ritual was done to bury the overall century of unparallelled engineering. The models today, A, B, C (and I can't think of another) are for the sole reason of funding research and development. It is not to gain market share but cash-flow for costs. Mercedes core engineering (except for the 2007 and onward C Classes) are absent in these models. No car manufacturer spends money per day as Mercedes does in the world to date. 1995 - 1996 was when MB joined the NYSE via the Chrysler merging. The conspiracy theories can begin from there.

The answer to this thread is exceedingly dynamic. A long thread cannot comprehensively answer this. In the world today, Japanese cars are the reliable cars. The Koreans are not recognised for such. Toyota was held as the standard but was leveraged during the 2009 scandal that tainted the image perpetually. Nevertheless, it is the industry standard the world follows now (and that is in all sects, not just automotive).

I got certified in designing automotive parts in 2008 with the most advanced solution-tool used in the industry. The perception the layman does not understand is that the life of a product is determined from the very beginning. It was disturbing when I got to discover this in one of the professional trainings attended in 2006 and have thought differently since then. There are certain constraints though. A huge constraint is the cost followed by material selection. In some cases, it is cash-flow and the necessity to remain in business. If you think manufacturers cannot design a vehicle/product and attain at least reliability status, then a lot is yet to be learnt. Sometimes, during the design-review, your superiors can tell you that it is too expensive and revisions need to be made (especially when cost of manufacturing is affected). Another tactic is to design the product well but the manufacturing process shaves some dependability off it, thus affecting the overall life-cycle. This is an area MB cut corners in. Time exposed the 1996 E Class. There's a lot more to that chapter but unnecessary.

The Japanese have cheap labour and can afford to price their vehicles which-ever-way they deem fit. Labour is not cheap in Europe. The Europeans are way advanced in mechanics than any race in the world. It is a strong fact that cannot be debunked. Yes, today's European systems are complex. The truth is that it can still be engineered to work problem-free but they wouldn't. The market will not pay the hefty prices associated. In the 70's and 80's, a base MB (E-Class) cost the price of a home in the United States. Forty years later, the base E is still pegged at $46,000; plus it is loaded with necessary gizmos (including a cup holder). Common sense requires an explanation. $46,000 in 1980's rate to today's adjusted inflation is almost $90,000. This is still the price of a home in certain parts of the United States. How do we explain the difference in the money shaved plus the additional systems that evolved over time? Figure that! The Japanese are no saints. Discussing theirs is another episode and Honda is the perfect scape goat in this reference. This isn't to say there aren't others, it's just what I happen to discover. In my humble opinion, I consider the approach worse.

KA24DETT: Good thing about this situation is that people who wouldnt afford a luxury car can buy a used one. If their purchase tend to be reliable against norms, they will be more inclined to buy a new mercedes. This brings more business to Mercedes.
On the downside, if the purchase turn out to be a failure, they will not buy any more mercedes and will scream from the roof top to their friends, family, mother , father that noone should buy mercedes. This perception will further reduce sales for mercedes. You know what they say, 'Success has more friends but failure is an orphan"

Manufacturers do not make money off used cars. Money is only made off new cars. The Germans are not stupid. The resale value does not bother them. Those that could not afford it when new would realise that after the used-purchase, they cannot afford the up-keep. Money would then be made off parts and misc. services. The low-end models are not for your experience, it is to keep the money-vault lubricated.

Why the prices sink is another subject matter. It is calculated. I can't remember what it is called and the associated variables used. I'll have to check my school notes. It also doesn't have to be followed. A well acknowledged fact is this: a well maintained Mercedes Benz will never sell for the resale value. It will always be higher, thus rendering the book value ratings useless. I don't mean these new ones.

3 Likes

Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by auhanson(m): 9:22pm On Sep 15, 2013
Ikenna351: Hmm!

Some people fail to realise that am one of those that wouldn't mind the low resale value of Euro cars, because i benefit from it. Ask me why? Guess how much i bought my tokunbo 406 V6 SV D9 early this year? A lot of Nairaland members have visited me and when i show them the car and tell them how much i bought her, none of them would believe me. I bought her almost the amount i bought my Baby in 2010. This car was shipped from Hamburg and arrived Lagos port in November last year. According to the importer, everyone looked the other way as soon as they see the V6 badge and secondary, because it's not Toyota. I was the only one indicated interest months later and he had no option than to not let me pass him by. Yet, this is a car i can tell you some I4 Japs can't match in fuel economy. On my way back from Church on Sunday, on Expressway, i used Cruise control for the first time. I first tried 120 km/h, the car at that speed averaged about 7.7 L/100km (39+ mpg). I couldn't believe it. Again, i cancelled the speed control and set it at 100 km/h, the car was getting about 6.4 L/100km. And this is a 2000 production. How many Japs of the same year model can boast of that consumption ? Note that i got the car at mileage 166,000 km. Now the mileae is over 170k km, yet the engine still drives like new. I don't even accelerate to move from stand still. All i do is gradually relaese the clutch and the car moves smoothly, no jecking or loss of power. Doubt me? Come over and test.

I recall when some members posted negatively about 406 electrics, claiming that as soon as the cross 100k km, their electrics become nightmares to their owners. They will start falling apart. Mine is 170k km, everything still function as new. I wonder who is to be blamed. The abused poor car, the owner or the clown that did that omen on the poor car?

For those that stay in Abuja, you will bear me witness that Peugeot cars are increasing on Abuja road on daily basis. Parastatal, other govt agencies and paramilitaries are now ditching their Toyotas and switching to Peugeots (408 & 508) as official cars. Privates are not lef out. Even Peugeot Crossovers ( 3008 & 4008) are increasing on the road. People don dey sabi beta thing!

So, the low resale value favours me abeg. After all, i don't buy to resale tomorrow. But buy to drive till it falls apart. Who knows, the low resale value fit make me become 508 owner sooner than i expect. Who knows!

Ikenna.


Abeg make the price come down so that i go fit purchase that my long awaited BMW ride. Ikenna , a friend went to Cotonou and bought an e36 BMW 318 for just 320k, everyhing packaged with delivery, i was amazed. Clean looking ride. When i asked of the unforseen problem this car could develop , he pointed to his mothers own he has been using for 5 years now and told me my brother ''there isnt no car like BM yet, all you need do is to understand this beast just the way you understand that your benz" He futher said that its the drivers mechanic car, that he dosent go to mechanic but fixes all those minor injuries himself, my appetite started getting wet for BM
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by Ikenna351(m): 10:25pm On Sep 15, 2013
au.hanson:


Abeg make the price come down so that i go fit purchase that my long awaited BMW ride. Ikenna , a friend went to Cotonou and bought an e36 BMW 318 for just 320k, everyhing packaged with delivery, i was amazed. Clean looking ride. When i asked of the unforseen problem this car could develop , he pointed to his mothers own he has been using for 5 years now and told me my brother ''there isnt no car like BM yet, all you need do is to understand this beast just the way you understand that your benz" He futher said that its the drivers mechanic car, that he dosent go to mechanic but fixes all those minor injuries himself, my appetite started getting wet for BM

Don't mind them

Ikenna.
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by sultaan(m): 2:31am On Sep 16, 2013
Price of a used car is based on how much a buyer is willing to pay.
Luxurious cars have greater depreciation.

The prices you see in Naija does not apply to every market.

Drivers don't drive toyota

1 Like

Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by ziccoit: 4:14am On Sep 16, 2013
sultaan:
Drivers don't drive toyota

Words on the marble.
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by KA24DETT(m): 7:51am On Sep 16, 2013
Trac:

You are partially correct. The American is spot-on but incomplete. You did not add that the technologies used are old plus the magic word: profit. Ironically, GM happens to be one of the world's sophisticated manufacturers when it comes to research-and-development. You wouldn't know this except you are affiliated with the automotive industry. Yet it is difficult to prove.

However, your reference to Benz is slightly off and anecdotal. Over-engineering is ridiculously expensive and time consuming. Field-Analysis-Tests (F.A.T) with research took years, sometimes spanning over a decade-and-a-half. For this approach, a large "design-space" signified the core with unlimited money and understanding. They lived to what the slogan was and the sole reason why few models spanned the century. This philosophy is what attracted me to Mercedes in the 90's. To keep this within the discussion as Car-Talk, certain key-points will be omitted. By the 90's, the tide had turned beyond their control. In 1993, it was disclosed over-engineering will stop and the obvious reasons were used to buttress the fact. Certain models were still in production. The C Class was introduced as the signature to seal this new philosophy. In 1999, the ritual was done to bury the overall century of unparallelled engineering. The models today, A, B, C (and I can't think of another) are for the sole reason of funding research and development. It is not to gain market share but cash-flow for costs. Mercedes core engineering (except for the 2007 and onward C Classes) are absent in these models. No car manufacturer spends money per day as Mercedes does in the world to date. 1995 - 1996 was when MB joined the NYSE via the Chrysler merging. The conspiracy theories can begin from there.

The answer to this thread is exceedingly dynamic. A long thread cannot comprehensively answer this. In the world today, Japanese cars are the reliable cars. The Koreans are not recognised for such. Toyota was held as the standard but was leveraged during the 2009 scandal that tainted the image perpetually. Nevertheless, it is the industry standard the world follows now (and that is in all sects, not just automotive).

I got certified in designing automotive parts in 2008 with the most advanced solution-tool used in the industry. The perception the layman does not understand is that the life of a product is determined from the very beginning. It was disturbing when I got to discover this in one of the professional trainings attended in 2006 and have thought differently since then. There are certain constraints though. A huge constraint is the cost followed by material selection. In some cases, it is cash-flow and the necessity to remain in business. If you think manufacturers cannot design a vehicle/product and attain at least reliability status, then a lot is yet to be learnt. Sometimes, during the design-review, your superiors can tell you that it is too expensive and revisions need to be made (especially when cost of manufacturing is affected). Another tactic is to design the product well but the manufacturing process shaves some dependability off it, thus affecting the overall life-cycle. This is an area MB cut corners in. Time exposed the 1996 E Class. There's a lot more to that chapter but unnecessary.

The Japanese have cheap labour and can afford to price their vehicles which-ever-way they deem fit. Labour is not cheap in Europe. The Europeans are way advanced in mechanics than any race in the world. It is a strong fact that cannot be debunked. Yes, today's European systems are complex. The truth is that it can still be engineered to work problem-free but they wouldn't. The market will not pay the hefty prices associated. In the 70's and 80's, a base MB (E-Class) cost the price of a home in the United States. Forty years later, the base E is still pegged at $46,000; plus it is loaded with necessary gizmos (including a cup holder). Common sense requires an explanation. $46,000 in 1980's rate to today's adjusted inflation is almost $90,000. This is still the price of a home in certain parts of the United States. How do we explain the difference in the money shaved plus the additional systems that evolved over time? Figure that! The Japanese are no saints. Discussing theirs is another episode and Honda is the perfect scape goat in this reference. This isn't to say there aren't others, it's just what I happen to discover. In my humble opinion, I consider the approach worse.



Manufacturers do not make money off used cars. Money is only made off new cars. The Germans are not stupid. The resale value does not bother them. Those that could not afford it when new would realise that after the used-purchase, they cannot afford the up-keep. Money would then be made off parts and misc. services. The low-end models are not for your experience, it is to keep the money-vault lubricated.

Why the prices sink is another subject matter. It is calculated. I can't remember what it is called and the associated variables used. I'll have to check my school notes. It also doesn't have to be followed. A well acknowledged fact is this: a well maintained Mercedes Benz will never sell for the resale value. It will always be higher, thus rendering the book value ratings useless. I don't mean these new ones.

I didn't meant Mercedes makes money off "used cars". Rather, what I meant is the perception from the used car buyer. A used car buyer would be more inclined to buy a new Mercedes if he his experience with his old Mercedes is good.
If the experience is bad, he would swear off the brand.
A well maintained Mercedes, no matter if you have the service record and all that WIlL NOT sell more than a comparable Lexus. (comparing Lexus Ls vs S class with same equipment ). That's the power of reliability .
Am talking about North America market.
Not sure about European market though.

The answer to this thread is exceedingly dynamic. A long thread cannot comprehensively answer this. In the world today, Japanese cars are the reliable cars. The Koreans are not recognised for such. Toyota was held as the standard but was leveraged during the 2009 scandal that tainted the image perpetually. Nevertheless, it is the industry standard the world follows now (and that is in all sects, not just automotive).


The koreans have stepped up their game. Hyundai products are among the best in reiability according to JD power and associate "Reliability study ". The Toyota scandal did not affect them so much .Sales went down few quarters but bounced back up because of their campaign . Remenber "Toyota care Campaign".

[b]The Japanese have cheap labour and can afford to price their vehicles which-ever-way they deem fit. Labour is not cheap in Europe. The Europeans are way advanced in mechanics than any race in the world. It is a strong fact that cannot be debunked. Yes, today's European systems are complex. The truth is that it can still be engineered to work problem-free but they wouldn't. The market will not pay the hefty prices associated. In the 70's and 80's, a base MB (E-Class) cost the price of a home in the United States. Forty years later, the base E is still pegged at $46,000; plus it is loaded with necessary gizmos (including a cup holder). Common sense requires an explanation. $46,000 in 1980's rate to today's adjusted inflation is almost $90,000. This is still the price of a home in certain parts of the United States. How do we explain the difference in the money shaved plus the additional systems that evolved over time? Figure that! The Japanese are no saints. Discussing theirs is another episode and Honda is the perfect scape goat in this reference. This isn't to say there aren't others, it's just what I happen to discover. In my humble opinion, I consider the approach worse.[/b]

Most of the japanese cars are now manufactured states side. And labour aint cheap here. Alot has changed over the years, productions is becoming more automated which reduces cost and manufacturers including mercedes are finding ways to add more plastics in their cars. Automakers are finding ways to cut cost and some people are better than others( leatherette and instead of real leather). The japanese are good at cost cutting but Mercedes aint. In the 90s when cost cutting was abound at mercedes, they churned out unreliable products.Customer satisfaction fell and people went elsewhere.
You might think the germans do not care about reliability, they do. Bad reliability drove FIAT out of the northamerica market in 1983.

1 Like

Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by Trac: 8:22am On Sep 16, 2013
KA24DETT:

I didn't meant Mercedes makes money off "used cars". Rather, what I meant is the perception from the used car buyer. A used car buyer would be more inclined to buy a new Mercedes if he his experience with his old Mercedes is good.
If the experience is bad, he would swear off the brand.
A well maintained Mercedes, no matter if you have the service record and all that WIlL NOT sell more than a comparable Lexus. (comparing Lexus Ls vs S class with same equipment ). That's the power of reliability .
Am talking about North America market.
Not sure about European market though.

The price sinks because of 1) user reported problems 2) price of replacement parts 3) past history .etc
The most important factor is "past history of reliability". That's explains why Lexus will still command more money in the used car market. There is no formula or calculations about it
American cars and Hyundai are comparably with Japanese with reliability but because of their past history of reliability issues , it will take YEARS before it starts reflecting in the used car market.
I remember when Hyundai and Mitsubishi was hammered by reliability problems and their used car values dropped. Mitsubishi responded by offering 10yrs power train warranty and Hyundai was offering 6yrs warranty . The market norm is 3yrs/60,000 km warranty which ever comes first.

Mercedes will come up but it will be a while before their used prices reflect that . Till then, Lexus will still be schooling them.
In the used car market , buyer perception is everything. Pontiac vibe and Toyota matrix are made in the same plant side by side with same parts but the Pontiac vibe will sell up to $3,000 less in the used car market .

Imagine buying a new Mercedes S class AMG for $130,000 and 3 yrs later, it's worth $70,000 and you will still have problems selling it . Lexus LS $85,000 new and 3yrs later, you will get $60,000 for it .
There is no calculation to justify that drop in price .

I did not refer to the contemporary Benzes. I referred to the pre-contemporary models. The word you used was reliability. Those were not reliable, they were durable. Two engineering approaches. An owner will not release a well-maintained and excellent conditioned Benz at market value.

KA24DETT: The price sinks because of 1) user reported problems 2) price of replacement parts 3) past history .etc
The most important factor is "past history of reliability". That's explains why Lexus will still command more money in the used car market. There is no formula or calculations about it
American cars and Hyundai are comparably with Japanese with reliability but because of their past history of reliability issues , it will take YEARS before it starts reflecting in the used car market.

Some truth to what you have listed above, there is still a method of calculating it; lest anything goes (even lobbying). Machines are calculated over a period of time as standard (usually 7 years) with other variables considered along with calculated wear and operations. Engineering economics is not my strength. There are certain milestones considered. The same is applied in automotive but to an applied approach. There has to be a standard to all complies to.

----
Mercedes has been over-designing. They aren't just over-engineering. Nothing really will change till the world's economy changes. That is when the money will be worth their products. Designing a deliberate product and deciding over what the life-cycle will be is intentional. The constraint is usually the money into production and return-customers.
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by KA24DETT(m): 8:35am On Sep 16, 2013
Trac:

I did not refer to the contemporary Benzes. I referred to the pre-contemporary models. The word you used was reliability. Those were not reliable, they were durable. Two engineering approaches. An owner will not release a well-maintained and excellent conditioned Benz at market value.



Some truth to what you have listed above, there is still a method of calculating it; lest anything goes (even lobbying). Machines are calculated over a period of time as standard (usually 7 years) with other variables considered along with calculated wear and operations. Engineering economics is not my strength. There are certain milestones considered. The same is applied in automotive but to an applied approach. There has to be a standard to all complies to.

----
Mercedes has been over-designing. They aren't just over-engineering. Nothing really will change till the world's economy changes. That is when the money will be worth their products. Designing a deliberate product and deciding over what the life-cycle will be is intentional. The constraint is usually the money into production and return-customers.

They can calculate how long their product will last . Never can they calculate what the used price will be . The market forces will determine that .
Its a tough economy like you said so everyone is trying to survive. I do not think the core of mercedes buyers really care about reliability . Most Mercedes in North america are leased anyways. The trick is to design the product to last up till the end of your warranty grin
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by Trac: 8:42am On Sep 16, 2013
KA24DETT:

They can calculate how long their product will last . Never can they calculate what the used price will be . The market forces will determine that .
Its a tough economy like you said so everyone is trying to survive. I do not think the core of mercedes buyers really care about reliability . Most Mercedes in North america are leased anyways. The trick is to design the product to last up till the end of your warranty grin

Core Mercedes buyers do not buy Benzes for social status. They buy it for life. They never intend to buy another car for life. Some with intent to pass it on to the next generation. Mercedes lost those customers. Same with Volvos.

1 Like

Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by Nobody: 11:02am On Jul 28, 2014
I'm really laughing ma ass out on this topic written by an automobile amateur.

Just listen, Nothing from Japan can compete with anything in Germany. I read people pointing out that spare parts of European cars and It's maintenance cost is high, I wonder How replacing the fuel pump of a Volkswagen Mk4 will be expensive when the owner will use it for 20 years without ever changing it.

Do u guys know y it seems like Japanese spare parts are cheap? It's because It's always spoiling and d owner is always fixing it. People normally think spare parts of German cars are expensive, but d fact is dat d parts rarely get damaged So How d hell will anyone know d price. We have a 13 year old Mercedes Benz tokunbo car here and It's still solid, never worked on d engine, never changed the fuel pump, never changed d kick starter, never changed d timing belt, just basic maintenance and with 1 or maximum 2 repairs a year. in fact the car did not see a mechanic for d first 4 years it was used.

Japanese cars are So bleeped, Toyota for example recalls tens of millions of cars like every year, How many times have anyone heard any German Automobile company recalled their cars, if any, How many cars? and How often does it ever happen..

This is 2014, u can still buy a 1980(34 year old ) German car, buy as tokunbo and use it in naija, but u will never see a 1980 japanese car, they have all gone obsolete.

please It's a fools argument to compare a Japanese car and any with any European car, Japan make cheap cars, dats why It's everywhere in Nigeria.

Anyone u see arguing dat Japanese cars hold any advantage over a German can has NEVER used a German can, I can bet my life on that.

As for ur price list, It's completely flawed.

4 Likes

Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by DECOtech(m): 6:22pm On Jul 28, 2014
peterjero: you are correct German cars are serious problems when they age , i have a 24yr old camry with a/c still steaming yet i haven't topped the gas once , no smoke from the exhaust. A lot of nigerians mistake speed and handling for reliability and durability. i put d key and start once all buttons still work. though i like german cars for their power and aesthetics but japs will always win thats y their cars are found everywhere in the world.
Can we Pls see some pics of your 24yr old Camry?
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by abatically(m): 7:40pm On Jul 28, 2014
chuna1985: I'm really laughing ma ass out on this topic written by an automobile amateur.

Just listen, Nothing from Japan can compete with anything in Germany. I read people pointing out that spare parts of European cars and It's maintenance cost is high, I wonder How replacing the fuel pump of a Volkswagen Mk4 will be expensive when the owner will use it for 20 years without ever changing it.

I think u are the one that needs to get ur facts right. Who told u the fuel pump of any car is indispensable? European cars are more expensive when they leave the factory, but it is a known fact that their price drop considerably once their mileage reach the 100,000 mark while their Japanese counterparts still maintain their value. How else would u explain a 2003 Toyota Camry at 100,000 miles costing the same or more than a 2003 Mercedes Benz C240 with similar mileage when we all know at brand new the Benz costs more.

chuna1985:
Do u guys know y it seems like Japanese spare parts are cheap? It's because It's always spoiling and d owner is always fixing it. People normally think spare parts of German cars are expensive, but d fact is dat d parts rarely get damaged So How d hell will anyone know d price. We have a 13 year old Mercedes Benz tokunbo car here and It's still solid, never worked on d engine, never changed the fuel pump, never changed d kick starter, never changed d timing belt, just basic maintenance and with 1 or maximum 2 repairs a year. in fact the car did not see a mechanic for d first 4 years it was used.

This is not true. European cars are better when brand new and under warranty. Once the warranty period has elapsed their value fall down considerably. You have a 13 year old Benz 230? My grandfather has a 1986 Toyota Camry that still runs on its original engine and transmission. A 1999 Toyota Camry is 15 years old and still selling stronger than a 15 year old Mercedez Benz C or E class. If Toyota and other Japanese cars are so bad like u claim, how come the camry, accord, civic, corolla, Lexus RX all have an almost perfect score on consumer report against their European counterparts?

chuna1985:

please It's a fools argument to compare a Japanese car and any with any European car, Japan make cheap cars, dats why It's everywhere in Nigeria.

Japan make cheap cars? You got to be kidding me. The problem people have is comparing cars of different class. I've seen someone compare a mercedes Benz S class with a Toyota Corolla... how is that even close? Japanese make cars for every class. Someone even compared a mercedes Benz ML350 to a Rav 4. Let's put it this way, a 2014 Lexus GS350 costs almost the same as a Mercedes Benz E350.. fair comparison. Now how is that cheap? But u do know the Lexus will be more expensive after 15 years of use.

We all know Europeans have better engineering (amidst unproven technology), nobody is disputing that, but OP's points are very valid, Japanese cars hold more value after long mileage.
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by Nobody: 9:01pm On Jul 28, 2014
I guess there's a lot of variation in luxury sedans from Japan. It may also depend on the local market.

In the UK, Lexus' are not a trade favourite. Come trade-in time, a big Lexus is not easy to shift, with traders offering ridiculously poor trade-in value. Dealers here would rather a big Mercedes-Benz. You soon get the message when you're low-balled at trade-in time with a Lexus - they don't want the car.

The smaller GS430 fares a little better, but not much.

I have two Lexus' - a 1998 LS400 with part Lexus service history and 103,000 miles. And a 2001 LS430, full Lexus service history and 86,000 miles.

The LS400 cost me £375, while the LS430 cost me £1,100. The LS400 has been owned by the original owner from new, fully loaded, it was supplied by Jemca Lexus, first registered November 17th 1998. The LS430 is less specified, and was on her second owner when I purchased her.

These cars are very plush, even in base trim (still better specified than the equivalent German car) YET they are unloved in the motor trade. They represent awesome value for money, a lot of car for very little.

One thing is for sure - you won't get an equivalent German car for so little - Audi A8 4.2 Quattro, BMW 740i or Mercedes-Benz S430. Not unless they're broken. Mercedes-Benz remains a favourite at trade-in. Possibly in the United States the Lexus Brand is favoured, but it's far from the case in the UK or the rest of Europe.
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by sultaan(m): 2:53am On Jul 29, 2014
A used car price is mainly determined by how much an average consumer is willing to pay for it based on its running cost and Japanese cars have parts cost than German cars but not necessarily a lower running when you consider labor cost BMW with 10k oil change interval will be cheaper than a Camry done twice with conventional oil part replacement like brake is always more expensive with German cars
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by peterjero(m): 11:02pm On Sep 07, 2014
DECOtech: Can we Pls see some pics of your 24yr old Camry?
Here is the car sir:

Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by Nobody: 10:00am On Apr 11, 2017
ihimami:


I could not have put it better, the fact is that most Nigerian mechanics are responsible for the sentiments attached to Japanese cars in Nigeria. This is because of the fact that German technology is way too advance for them to handle, as compare to Japanese cars. Even among the Japanese brands in Nigeria, you will equally noticed that most Nigerians shy away from buying the high end luxury brands such as Acura, Infiniti and Lexus. One is bound to ask those who believe the Japanese cars are more reliable, to take time to observe the oldest cars on our roads, you will be shocked to discovered that they are mostly German cars such as Mercedes 200 flat boot, Golf 1, VW beetle, Audi 80, and 1980 VW Passat which are still being used for commercial taxis. Most of these German cars have put in 30 years plus. In terms of cost of maintenance, the number of times you see a Toyota or Honda owners going to see a mechanics is more frequents than those with German cars except in some rare cases where mechanics may have done a wrong diagnosis on those German cars thereby making the owner to frequents workshops and end up spending so much to fix.

Thank you very much.
My thoughts exactly.

Last year i was at a crossroad trying to decide whether to buy a 2005 benz c class or a 2006 honda civic.
I preferred the benz but unfortunately for me, that was when the dollar palaver started so the price of the benz went up beyond my budget and i ended up with the civic.
Don't get me wrong, the civic is ok and it's my 4th car. My previous car was a peugeot 406.
I'm a very careful driver and i do my best to attend to regular maintenance and i fix things as soon as they arise. On top of that, i live in a city with generally good roads but mehn, i wish i had bought the benz.
The honda isn't just durable.
With all my carefulness, the shocks need to be replaced, ive had to change the brake pads twice, and even though I replaced the driving shaft last year, the annoying thing has started squeaking again meaning I'll need to change it again soon.
My dad's ML class benz however has been going strong for the past 6 years and hardly requires anything except the normal servicing.

My next car will be a benz by God's grace.
Re: Why Do German And American Cars Have Low Resale Values? by Nobody: 6:06pm On Apr 11, 2017


I believe its MTN disgusting network that made u spew such a great degree of ignorance. HYUNDAI and KIA are Korean car manufacturing companies. Please do your research well and don't forget to PORT to.... GLO tongue wink
Jesu!! who is that guy that said that hyundai is Japanese and Kia is Indian. Heart attack nearly catch me. That person needs to go back to school.

(1) (2) (3) (Reply)

Why You Should Never Buy Your Car Secretly / Picture Of An Okada With An Umbrella / Hennessey's Venom F5 Hypercar Could Break The 300 Mph Barrier

(Go Up)

Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health
religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket

Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10)

Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2022 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 371
Disclaimer: Every Nairaland member is solely responsible for anything that he/she posts or uploads on Nairaland.