striktlymi:

Lol!!!

What makes you think I am not calm?

Anyways, God's judgement is not going to be exactly what a lot of persons have in mind. Christ made us understand that ignorance can be an excuse, if and only if the individual is truly unaware of what the truth really is.

In our world today, we have a lot of persons who truly do not know that Christianity is the prefered way to God and for such persons, they cannot be held liable for not being Christians.

Their judgement I believe will be based on how well they lived their lives here on Earth, in line with the principles of right conscience.

There is only ONE way to heaven bro; and that's Jesus!

Zarian5: Some people keep hiding my posts in this forum. Pls let me say my mind!
All muslims going to Hell? Lol! Well, we also believe all non-muslims will go to Hell except if they repent and accept Islam.
Surah 2 ‎سورة البقرة - Al-Baqara: Verse 113
وَقَالَتِ الْيَهُودُ لَيْسَتِ النَّصَارَىٰ عَلَىٰ شَيْءٍ وَقَالَتِ النَّصَارَىٰ لَيْسَتِ الْيَهُودُ عَلَىٰ شَيْءٍ وَهُمْ يَتْلُونَ الْكِتَابَ ۗ كَذَٰلِكَ قَالَ الَّذِينَ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ مِثْلَ قَوْلِهِمْ ۚ فَاللَّهُ يَحْكُمُ بَيْنَهُمْ يَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ فِيمَا كَانُوا فِيهِ يَخْتَلِفُونَ
The Jews say: "The Christians have naught (to stand) upon; and the Christians say: "The Jews have naught (To stand) upon." Yet they (Profess to) study the (same) Book. Like unto their word is what those say who know not; but Allah will judge between them in their quarrel on the Day of Judgment
Surah 2 ‎ سورة البقرة - Al-Baqara: Verse 135
وَقَالُوا كُونُوا هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ تَهْتَدُوا ۗ قُلْ بَلْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا ۖ وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather follow) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."
Surah 3 ‎ سورة آل عمران - Aal-e-Imran: Verse 67
مَا كَانَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ يَهُودِيًّا وَلَا نَصْرَانِيًّا وَلَٰكِنْ كَانَ حَنِيفًا مُسْلِمًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ
Abraham was not a Jew nor a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.
Surah 2 سورة البقرة - Al-Baqara: Verse 140
أَمْ تَقُولُونَ إِنَّ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطَ كَانُوا هُودًا أَوْ نَصَارَىٰ ۗ قُلْ أَأَنْتُمْ أَعْلَمُ أَمِ اللَّهُ ۗ وَمَنْ أَظْلَمُ مِمَّنْ كَتَمَ شَهَادَةً عِنْدَهُ مِنَ اللَّهِ ۗ وَمَا اللَّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ
Or do ye say that Abraham, Ismail Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? but Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!

Infact we believe all prophets from Adam to Muhammad including Moses and Jesus were muslims [(i.e those who submitted their will to Allah (God)].

Surah 3 ‎سورة آل عمران - Aal-e-Imran: Verse 84
قُلْ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَمَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَيْنَا وَمَا أُنْزِلَ عَلَىٰ إِبْرَاهِيمَ وَإِسْمَاعِيلَ وَإِسْحَاقَ وَيَعْقُوبَ وَالْأَسْبَاطِ وَمَا أُوتِيَ مُوسَىٰ وَعِيسَىٰ وَالنَّبِيُّونَ مِنْ رَبِّهِمْ لَا نُفَرِّقُ بَيْنَ أَحَدٍ مِنْهُمْ وَنَحْنُ لَهُ مُسْلِمُونَ
Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
Surah 61 سورة الصف - As-Saff: Verse 6
وَإِذْ قَالَ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ إِنِّي رَسُولُ اللَّهِ إِلَيْكُمْ مُصَدِّقًا لِمَا بَيْنَ يَدَيَّ مِنَ التَّوْرَاةِ وَمُبَشِّرًا بِرَسُولٍ يَأْتِي مِنْ بَعْدِي اسْمُهُ أَحْمَدُ ۖ فَلَمَّا جَاءَهُمْ بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ قَالُوا هَٰذَا سِحْرٌ مُبِينٌ
And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the messenger of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"
Surah 5 ‎سورة المائدة - Al-Maeda: Verse 116
وَإِذْ قَالَ اللَّهُ يَا عِيسَى ابْنَ مَرْيَمَ أَأَنْتَ قُلْتَ لِلنَّاسِ اتَّخِذُونِي وَأُمِّيَ إِلَٰهَيْنِ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ ۖ قَالَ سُبْحَانَكَ مَا يَكُونُ لِي أَنْ أَقُولَ مَا لَيْسَ لِي بِحَقٍّ ۚ إِنْ كُنْتُ قُلْتُهُ فَقَدْ عَلِمْتَهُ ۚ تَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِي وَلَا أَعْلَمُ مَا فِي نَفْسِكَ ۚ إِنَّكَ أَنْتَ عَلَّامُ الْغُيُوبِ
And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden
Surah 5 سورة المائدة - Al-Maeda: Verse 72
لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ هُوَ الْمَسِيحُ ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ ۖ وَقَالَ الْمَسِيحُ يَا بَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ اعْبُدُوا اللَّهَ رَبِّي وَرَبَّكُمْ ۖ إِنَّهُ مَنْ يُشْرِكْ بِاللَّهِ فَقَدْ حَرَّمَ اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ الْجَنَّةَ وَمَأْوَاهُ النَّارُ ۖ وَمَا لِلظَّالِمِينَ مِنْ أَنْصَارٍ
They do blaspheme who say: "Allah is Christ the son of Mary." But said Christ: "O Children of Israel! worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Whoever joins other gods with Allah,- Allah will forbid him the garden, n the Fire will be his abode. There will for the wrong-dor be no one to help

with due respect! Muslims don't kw Jesus rather than apocryphal/islamic Jesus

frank3.16:
So which one should we believe, christians or muslims?

Get the Qur'an and read the REAL message of your Lord.

frank3.16:
So which one should we believe, christians or muslims?

Belief In GOD and worship GOD via the Scriptures (Torah,Bible and Quran) !!!

Samunique: with due respect! Muslims don't kw Jesus rather than apocryphal/islamic Jesus

The Qur'an says Jesus never asked anybody to worship him. Now let me ask you this, even though i know that the Bible has been tempered with, yet I'll still ask you this question : can you show me (in the Bible) where Jesus said ‘worship me’ or where he said ‘I am God’? If you cannot then you should repent, and start worshipping the God of Christ.

I don't think God petty to send people to hell.

Zarian5:
Get the Qur'an and read the REAL message of your Lord.

This is a joke right? I'd rather spend my whole day in a brothel than heed to ur instruction.

Pls did u see what muslims are doing in kenya?

Oh spare me that muslim is a peaceful religion bullshit

donroxy: Belief In GOD and worship GOD via the Scriptures (Torah,Bible and Quran) !!!

Oh pls, enough with the jokes. Must i worship God via all tthese arguable scriptures? If they where the right source to God do u honestly thhink there will cause for arguement? What actually do u take God for?

idnoble135:
Now the scripture context shows the way the master will relate to his servants . This does not help yet.
The servants already had a relationship with Him. This does not relate to the point you are trying to elucidate.

If one truly does not know any better, that individual need not have a 'personal relationship' with Christ to belong to him. Christ made us understand that he has other sheep who are not part of his flock and that when they hear him they will definitely follow him.

John 10:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Though those sheep are yet to know the person of Christ, that did not stop Christ from claiming them as his. Anyone who truly does not know that Christ is the real deal but tries to do right by the dictate of good conscience, that individual belongs to Christ, even though he/she knows him not.

frank3.16:


Oh pls, enough with the jokes. Must i worship God via all tthese arguable scriptures? If they where the right source to God do u honestly thhink there will cause for arguement? What actually do u take God for?

Any Arguement therein is Human-Error .......



And If truly U wanna worship God, it could only be either of the 3-scriptures ..... Abi which way again....


Occultic or free-thinking .... Psheeeffff

olaric:

There is only ONE way to heaven bro; and that's Jesus!

Who said we have more than one way?

striktlymi:

If one truly does not know any better, that individual need not have a 'personal relationship' with Christ to belong to him. Christ made us understand that he has other sheep who are not part of his flock and that when they hear him they will definitely follow him.

John 10:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.


Though those sheep are yet to know the person of Christ, that did not stop Christ from claiming them as his. Anyone who truly does not know that Christ is the real deal but tries to do right by the dictate of good conscience, that individual belongs to Christ, even though he/she knows him not.

Okkk... Look at this verses.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord
shall be saved. Rom 10:13
Watch the connection...
How then will they call on him in whom they have not
believed? And how are they
to believe in him of whom they have never heard? [a] And how are they to hear
without someone preaching? Rom 10:14
In other words except they call on God they cannot be saved. Rom 10:9-10 explains how they can call upon God.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, and shalt believe in
thine heart that God hath
raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth
confession is made unto
salvation.
You believe people by good conscience can make heaven. Scripture says its through Jesus. You believe they should just be good to make heaven. Scriptures above says they must personally confess and believe in Jesus.
Dont they oppose what you are trying to bring up?

donroxy: Belief In GOD and worship GOD via the Scriptures (Torah,Bible and Quran) !!!

and Ifa

donroxy: Any Arguement therein is Human-Error .......



And If truly U wanna worship God, it could only be either of the 3-scriptures ..... Abi which way again....


Occultic or free-thinking .... Psheeeffff

and wat makes u think abrahamic religions are the only righteous religions? There are other religions in the world, u knw?

idnoble135:
Okkk... Look at this verses.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord
shall be saved. Rom 10:13
Watch the connection...
How then will they call on him in whom they have not
believed? And how are they
to believe in him of whom they have never heard? [a] And how are they to hear
without someone preaching? Rom 10:14
In other words except they call on God they cannot be saved. Rom 10:9-10 explains how they can call upon God.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, and shalt believe in
thine heart that God hath
raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth
confession is made unto
salvation.
You believe people by good conscience can make heaven. Scripture says its through Jesus. You believe they should just be good to make heaven. Scriptures above says they must personally confess and believe in Jesus.
Dont they oppose what you are trying to bring up?

so as long as u believe in Jesus u go to heaven? Whether u live a righteous life or not just believe he died for ur sins and worship him then u heaven is sure? If that's the case all the good men of the bible before Jesus wouldn't make heaven eg. Abraham,Moses,Samuel,David etc. Pls u people should stop deceiving people and most especially stop demonising other religions, heaven is not for christians alone

Yes now,allah said all muslim will go to hell first now,then on the judgement day,he will bring out those whose good deeds surpasses d bad...i bet millions of muslims are in hell now waiting for allah's judgement's day,millions are still going until allah's judgement's day!
.
Jesus is the way to heaven,the ONLY way to God!

Zarian5:
The Qur'an says Jesus never asked anybody to worship him. Now let me ask you this, even though i know that the Bible has been tempered with, yet I'll still ask you this question : can you show me (in the Bible) where Jesus said ‘worship me’ or where he said ‘I am God’? If you cannot then you should repent, and start worshipping the God of Christ.

stop derailing this thread!
BTW,can you show me in the quran where allah say"mohammed is the comforter Jesus promised"!
.
You need Jesus,He loves you.

Mintayo:
stop derailing this thread!
BTW,can you show me in the quran where allah say"mohammed is the comforter Jesus promised"!
.
You need Jesus,He loves you.

To start with Jesus did not say ‘comforter’ because ‘comforter’ is English. And you know Jesus did not speak English. Did he? That is why when you check other English Bibles you will find that in place of comforter they use words like helper, advocate, councillor etc. But Jesus used none of this words! Now tell me the ORIGINAL word used by Jesus which your Bibles translates as comforter, advocate, councillor, helper etc before we proceed. And pls don't tell me 'Paraclete' because Jesus did not speak Greek also. Tell me the ACTUAL word he used in his own tongue, not the translated one into Greek or English.

Mintayo: Yes now,allah said all muslim will go to hell first now,then on the judgement day,he will bring out those whose good deeds surpasses d bad...i bet millions of muslims are in hell now waiting for allah's judgement's day,millions are still going until allah's judgement's day!
.
Jesus is the way to heaven,the ONLY way to God!

It will make more sense if you bring your source where Allah said "all muslim will go to hell first now,then on the judgement day,he will bring out those whose good deeds surpasses d bad."
Bring your proof!

Mintayo:

You need Jesus,He loves you.

Yes but his Master loves me more. Your Master's Saviour is my Saviour. Or do you think he cannot save me? I'm talking about that one which your Saviour was crying and begging to save him. That is my Saviour — The Creator of man not the ‘son of man.’!

idnoble135:
Okkk... Look at this verses.
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord
shall be saved. Rom 10:13
Watch the connection...
How then will they call on him in whom they have not
believed? And how are they
to believe in him of whom they have never heard? [a] And how are they to hear
without someone preaching? Rom 10:14
In other words except they call on God they cannot be saved. Rom 10:9-10 explains how they can call upon God.

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord
Jesus, and shalt believe in
thine heart that God hath
raised him from the dead,
thou shalt be saved.
For with the heart man
believeth unto righteousness;
and with the mouth
confession is made unto
salvation.
You believe people by good conscience can make heaven. Scripture says its through Jesus. You believe they should just be good to make heaven. Scriptures above says they must personally confess and believe in Jesus.
Dont they oppose what you are trying to bring up?

Well Idnoble...Sacred scriptures is not exactly as straight forward as we would like it to be. There are verses that need to be looked at a bit closely to get the underlying message. The quotes you provided are very much in order and they are true for all time.

But I am of the opinion that a number of us Christians get the wrong meaning of those verses. The verses you provided are basically for those who have been called to live the Christian life. Once this call is extended to anyone and the individual refuses to heed it then that individual would be culpable for not believing in Christ.

Note that this Christian calling is not done by man. It cannot be achieved by the effort we put into preaching the word. This calling can only be done by God himself. If God calls someone to be a Christian, there will come with it that deep conviction that the Christian way is the right way to live but accepting this call depends entirely on the individual.

For that individual, it is necessary that he believes in Christ and follow the two golden rules: Love for God and neighbour. On the other hand, for those who truly have not 'received' this call, they are expected to live by one rule: the dictate of good conscience which encompasses a profound love for God and neighbour.

Note that for the second case, it is not necessary to demonstrate a knowledge of Christ or of God, if sincerely the individual has not received the call and does not know any better. An example would be the parable of the good samarittan. The story began with a simple question:

Luke 10:25
King James Version (KJV)
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

I guess if that question was asked by a Christian convert, the first thing would be for the individual to believe firmly in Christ, followed by the rules to love God and neighbour. But this was asked by a Jew who knew nothing about Christ's identity as the messiah. Hence his case was quite unique. The answer Christ gave as their dialogue went on was:

Luke 10:26-28
King James Version (KJV)

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

The above criteria to be saved does not include a belief in Christ because like I have mentioned before, the individual has no knowledge of the true identity of Christ, hence what he is going to be judged by would be those things he is exposed to in good conscience i.e his beliefs as a Jew.

This is getting too long, so I will conclude with this: Christ is the ONLY way to the father and indeed heaven but we get to Christ through different means. Some will get to him by belief and doing good deeds while others might not need a belief in Christ to achieve same. All depends on what we are exposed to, in line with the dictates of sincerity and good conscience.

The Bible is not quran,so don't play the 'until you understand arabic,u cnt understand d quran' with the Bible!
And it is you dnt understand my point;you ask for a direct statement of Jesus,i also ask for a direct statement of your allah calling mohammed d Holy Spirit promised by Jesus.
I can show you where Jesus was worshiped in the Bible,but this is not the thread for that.

Zarian5:
To start with Jesus did not say ‘comforter’ because ‘comforter’ is English. And you know Jesus did not speak English. Did he? That is why when you check other English Bibles you will find that in place of comforter they use words like helper, advocate, councillor etc. But Jesus used none of this words! Now tell me the ORIGINAL word used by Jesus which your Bibles translates as comforter, advocate, councillor, helper etc before we proceed. And pls don't tell me 'Paraclete' because Jesus did not speak Greek also. Tell me the ACTUAL word he used in his own tongue, not the translated one into Greek or English.

you may come here to discuss that=https://www.nairaland.com/1400732/does-islam-condone-encourage-desecration/4

Zarian5:
It will make more sense if you bring your source where Allah said "all muslim will go to hell first now,then on the judgement day,he will bring out those whose good deeds surpasses d bad."
Bring your proof!

surah 19:71-72.
There is none of you that shall not go there(hell)-this is the judgement your Lord has proposed,then he shall save those who fear allah and we shall leave the evildoer in the fire on their knees.
.
Surah 7:179.
Allah says-' many are the jinns and men we have made for hell'.
Many mankind will spend sometime on earth and then end up in hell,no?

macof: so as long as u believe in Jesus u go to heaven? Whether u live a righteous life or not just believe he died for ur sins and worship him then u heaven is sure? If that's the case all the good men of the bible before Jesus wouldn't make heaven eg. Abraham,Moses,Samuel,David etc. Pls u people should stop deceiving people and most especially stop demonising other religions, heaven is not for christians alone

I'm not a fanatic. I'm just stating what is in the word. First, are you a christian?
Whether yes or no, you need to do a study of dispensations that reveals how God relates with humans right from the fall of Adam till now. In this dispensation, no one can be right without God. God, who at sundry times
and in divers manners spake
in time past unto the fathers
by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son Heb 1:1-2

striktlymi:

Well Idnoble...Sacred scriptures is not exactly as straight forward as we would like it to be. There are verses that need to be looked at a bit closely to get the underlying message. The quotes you provided are very much in order and they are true for all time.

But I am of the opinion that a number of us Christians get the wrong meaning of those verses. The verses you provided are basically for those who have been called to live the Christian life. Once this call is extended to anyone and the individual refuses to heed it then that individual would be culpable for not believing in Christ.

Note that this Christian calling is not done by man. It cannot be achieved by the effort we put into preaching the word. This calling can only be done by God himself. If God calls someone to be a Christian, there will come with it that deep conviction that the Christian way is the right way to live but accepting this call depends entirely on the individual.

For that individual, it is necessary that he believes in Christ and follow the two golden rules: Love for God and neighbour. On the other hand, for those who truly have not 'received' this call, they are expected to live by one rule: the dictate of good conscience which encompasses a profound love for God and neighbour.

Note that for the second case, it is not necessary to demonstrate a knowledge of Christ or of God, if sincerely the individual has not received the call and does not know any better. An example would be the parable of the good samarittan. The story began with a simple question:

Luke 10:25
King James Version (KJV)
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

I guess if that question was asked by a Christian convert, the first thing would be for the individual to believe firmly in Christ, followed by the rules to love God and neighbour. But this was asked by a Jew who knew nothing about Christ's identity as the messiah. Hence his case was quite unique. The answer Christ gave as their dialogue went on was:

Luke 10:26-28
King James Version (KJV)

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

The above criteria to be saved does not include a belief in Christ because like I have mentioned before, the individual has no knowledge of the true identity of Christ, hence what he is going to be judged by would be those things he is exposed to in good conscience i.e his beliefs as a Jew.

This is getting too long, so I will conclude with this: Christ is the ONLY way to the father and indeed heaven but we get to Christ through different means. Some will get to him by belief and doing good deeds while others might not need a belief in Christ to achieve same. All depends on what we are exposed to, in line with the dictates of sincerity and good conscience.

Just one question before i continue, why did Jesus ask us to go to the end of the world to preach the goodnews? Why would he tell us to preach the gospel to world to be saved if they are already saved through their acts/works?

idnoble135:
Just one question before i continue, why did Jesus ask us to go to the end of the world to preach the goodnews? Why would he tell us to preach the gospel to world to be saved if they are already saved through their acts/works?

Um...before I answer your question, I need to address the bold. Good works without the sacrifice of Christ cannot merit anyone heaven. This is the reason why those who did good prior to the coming of Christ were not admitted into heaven, as Christ himself confirms:

John 3:13
King James Version (KJV)

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Christ won for us the right to heaven, as his sacrifice on the cross destroyed the barrier the sin of Adam placed between us and our Father in heaven. For everyone was born into sin:

Psalm 51:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Now to your question...Preaching the good news does not save the world. Christ has already saved it by his sacrifice. Our preaching is to let everyone know about this saving work of Christ and also afford all the rare opportunity of living the life of Angels here on Earth.

Like the Lord's prayer puts it: "Thy will be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven". We are all meant to start living our Heaven right from Earth, making Christ the centre of our every day lives. Christ wants everyone to start living the preferred life style but he also knows that not everyone would have the privilege of being a Christian before their deaths.

That is the exact same reason why he acknowledged that he has some other sheep who are not part of his flock. Christ will NEVER condemn those (Christian or not) who are truly his. It is definite that there will be some stumbling blocks on the path to the discovery of Christ, greatest of all these would be the level of someone's exposure which most often than not is not their fault.

striktlymi:

Um...before I answer your question, I need to address the bold. Good works without the sacrifice of Christ cannot merit anyone heaven. This is the reason why those who did good prior to the coming of Christ were not admitted into heaven, as Christ himself confirms:

John 3:13
King James Version (KJV)

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Christ won for us the right to heaven, as his sacrifice on the cross destroyed the barrier the sin of Adam placed between us and our Father in heaven. For everyone was born into sin:

Psalm 51:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Now to your question...Preaching the good news does not save the world. Christ has already saved it by his sacrifice. Our preaching is to let everyone know about this saving work of Ch

battery low...

few points to clarify
1. all the people before Jesus went to hell?
2. believe in Jesus, whether u live righteously or not u would still make heaven?

striktlymi:

Um...before I answer your question, I need to address the bold. Good works without the sacrifice of Christ cannot merit anyone heaven. This is the reason why those who did good prior to the coming of Christ were not admitted into heaven, as Christ himself confirms:

John 3:13
King James Version (KJV)

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Christ won for us the right to heaven, as his sacrifice on the cross destroyed the barrier the sin of Adam placed between us and our Father in heaven. For everyone was born into sin:

Psalm 51:5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me.

Now to your question...Preaching the good news does not save the world. Christ has already saved it by his sacrifice. Our preaching is to let everyone know about this saving work of Christ and also afford all the rare opportunity of living the life of Angels here on Earth.

Like the Lord's prayer puts it: "Thy will be done on Earth as it is done in Heaven". We are all meant to start living our Heaven right from Earth, making Christ the centre of our every day lives. Christ wants everyone to start living the preferred life style but he also knows that not everyone would have the privilege of being a Christian before their deaths.

That is the exact same reason why he acknowledged that he has some other sheep who are not part of his flock. Christ will NEVER condemn those (Christian or not) who are truly his. It is definite that there will be some stumbling blocks on the path to the discovery of Christ, greatest of all these would be the level of someone's exposure which most often than not is not their fault.

With the bold, i believe your stance is not yet clear. Sounds very contradictory. But i accept with the bolded at the expense of your previous posts. No one can make heaven without Jesus. Good works are good but they do not guarantee salvation. If anyone is not saved, that means ...........

macof:
few points to clarify
1. all the people before Jesus went to hell?
2. believe in Jesus, whether u live righteously or not u would still make heaven?

1) It depends on what you refer to as hell. Personally I believe the true pain of hell is the loss associated with not being able to be in God's presence. The human spirit (soul if you like) yearns to be re-united with its maker (whether we recognize it or not). It derives its joy and peace from God. To be barnished from the one who holds the key to the joy of the soul is devastating in itself. Hence, anyone who was deprived the beatific vision (whether temporarily or for all eternity) can be said to have experienced some of the pangs of hell.

2) I believe firmly that belief in Christ is the same thing as doing good. Anyone who claims to be Christian and refuses to do good, is getting himself prepared to be cut off from Christ on the last day. Hence, no one can make heaven without doing good.

idnoble135:
With the bold, i believe your stance is not yet clear. Sounds very contradictory. But i accept with the bolded at the expense of your previous posts. No one can make heaven without Jesus. Good works are good but they do not guarantee salvation. If anyone is not saved, that means ...........

You have to demonstrate the contradictions and I believe I made my stance known right from my first post.

Some Muslims will definitely make heaven just like their Christian counterparts.

striktlymi:

1) It depends on what you refer to as hell. Personally I believe the true pain of hell is the loss associated with not being able to be in God's presence. The human spirit (soul if you like) yearns to be re-united with its maker (whether we recognize it or not). It derives its joy and peace from God. To be barnished from the one who holds the key to the joy of the soul is devastating in itself. Hence, anyone who was deprived the beatific vision (whether temporarily or for all eternity) can be said to have experienced some of the pangs of hell.

2) I believe firmly that belief in Christ is the same thing as doing good. Anyone who claims to be Christian and refuses to do good, is getting himself prepared to be cut off from Christ on the last day. Hence, no one can make heaven without doing good.

not an answer to my questions

macof: not an answer to my questions

Quite on the contrary, my post addressed your questions.


The first is dependent on what you call hell. If you and I have the same meaning for hell then all who did good before Christ experienced hell, though temporarily. This addresses your first question.

The second states that good works are necessary to attain salvation, even tough it would need to be made whole by Christ's sacrifice. This addresses your second question.