With the avalanche of social networks in Nigeria, i would like to ask this question, can Nigerian hackers think? ("H.A.C.K.E.R": means extremely talented programmers). With the likes of facebook, friendster, myspace, do we really need "Nigerianized" versions of these sites? Please there are a million and one other stuff that can be done on the web instead of another clone of facebook.
This is a call to arms to Nigerian programmers, LETS DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT!!!

P.S: If you are still coding in PHP(jezz!@#@) and the likes, you really need to wake up
also this is an advice to seun, i noticed that some words are banned on this site, why is that? e.g. H>A>C>K>E>R>S. See the post for the real meaning.

While I agree that there are a lot of things that could be developed other than social networking sites however I think it is wrong for you to claim that Nigeria programmers are dumb because the craze for social networking sites is not limited to Nigeria alone especially since the likes of facebook, myspace etc started making a lot of money.

My friends,
           First and Foremost, what did you think can be done, ? what do you suggest that Nigeria would do? if you answer this question, then, we will know what to do.

The reason why i said that Nigerian programmers are dumb is that even the social networks or forums like this one, where not even coded by them, they only downloaded open source PHP projects, slapped their names on it and "eureka" a new web 2.0 application is born. Like i said, there are a million and one things that we can develop that will fit into this country that we are in.

I would like to ask, what value does a "social network" like e.g. "handwork.com.ng" etc add to your life? compared to a site like Google? Do not get me wrong. i am not insinuating that you should go and develop a search engine (but if you can, please go ahead). I am only saying that when we want to develop applications, it should be an itch that we have.
Examples:
1. hotmail was developed by 2 programmers who had problems sending mails using their internal office exchange server.
2. Yahoo was created by Jerry and David who used it to save the links to all the interesting web pages that they knew of.
Please  the list is endless

Way forward:
Please drop the proprietary languages, platforms and IDEs that you use to code. Please (MACROSOFT) i don't want to mention names here, doeskin care about the programmer living in the heart of Africa!. So use open source languages e.g. Python, Ruby, Lisp, Scheme, these may be unknown languages to most people, but they are extremely powerful and simple languages unlike "KAVA" and the .MET languages.

I will continue this post later, but please NIGERIAN PROGRAMMERS, lets do something different.
thanks
The Sicilian.

I will continue this post later, but please NIGERIAN PROGRAMMERS, lets do something different.

why are you waiting for others, why cant you start??

If Bill was waiting for other americans, we would not have MS.

someone else thats also frustrated with PHP, Java rocks so much, *sigh

aitoehigie:

The reason why i said that Nigerian programmers are dumb is that even the social networks or forums like this one, where not even coded by them, they only downloaded open source PHP projects, slapped their names on it and "eureka" a new web 2.0 application is born. Like i said, there are a million and one things that we can develop that will fit into this country that we are in.

The only point you make that I agree with is the use of already made code to by web developers in Nigeria to produce social sites all over the place

aitoehigie:

Way forward:
Please drop the proprietary languages, platforms and IDEs that you use to code. Please (MACROSOFT) i don't want to mention names here, doeskin care about the programmer living in the heart of Africa!. So use open source languages e.g. Python, Ruby, Lisp, Scheme, these may be unknown languages to most people, but they are extremely powerful and simple languages unlike "KAVA" and the .MET languages.

I will continue this post later, but please NIGERIAN PROGRAMMERS, lets do something different.
thanks
The Sicilian.

1) I am not sure if you know this but there is more to the .NET platform than you seem to understand here. You mention your personal list of powerful languages but that does not necessarily mean everyone considers those as powerful as you think.

2) The .NET Platform is built to offer developers ability to develop in most any language but take advantage of the same power that other languages may offer. So, if you do not it, Python is also one of the .NET Languages.

This site here will give you the list of possible languages you can code with using the .NET Platform. The main point being they are all compiled into CIL which is assembled into bycode in the end and so have interoperability.   http://dotnetpowered.com/languages.aspx ,  As of 2003, there were about 44 Languages in the .NET language list

3) IF  all code end up the same way; people who code in VB.NET , or C++ , PROLOG( one of my best AI languages, by the way) or Python or even Ada understand that in the end, it all ends up as assembly code which is not language dependent and so I think you may want to review your list of powerful languages there.

4) Since the CLR handles all the conversion work for you, all you need is one IDE. You write your code in whatever language you want to using Visual Studio or some other compiler built on the .NET Platform and the CLR takes care of the work behind doors and you are good to go in any of those 44 languages.

That is some thing to know of .NET and why it is not to be considered non-powerful platform in any way. If you doubt it, write similar functionality in, say C# or IronPython or some other language using the .NET Compiler, compile and use ILDASM to see that your code is compiled the same.

Sample .NET Languages

LISP
clisp (Microsoft)

DotLisp (Rich Hickey)

L# (L Sharp .NET) (Rob Blackwell)
LISP-based script language
FOIL (Rich Hickey and Eric Thorsen)

RDNZL (Edi Weitz)
.NET Layer for Common Lisp

Cobol
NetCOBOL (Fujitsu)
COBOL for .NET
NeoKicks (Fujitsu)

Net Express (Micro Focus)

KICKS for .NET™ (Intensity Software)

Python
IronPython (Microsoft)

KOBRA (Chetan Gadgil)

Python for .NET compiler (Mark Hammond)

Python for .NET (Brian Lloyd)
.NET Integration with Python
IronPython (Microsoft)

Ruby
IronRuby (Microsoft)

Mono Ruby.NET (Jaen,Mono Developers)

NetRuby (arton)

Rook (Castle Project)

Ruby/.NET Bridge (Ben Schroeder, John Pierce)

RubyCLR (John Lam)


Pascal
TMT .NET (TMT)
Pascal Compiler


Fortran
Lahey/Fujitsu Fortran for .NET (Lahey Computer Systems, Inc.)

FTN95 (Salford Software Ltd.)
Fortran for Microsoft .NET

Ruby.NET (Queensland University of Technology)

Scheme
Common Larceny (Northeastern University)

Dot-Scheme (Pedro Pinto)
PLT Scheme Bridge
Bigloo (Inria Sophia-Antipolis)

Hotdog (Northwestern University)

Tachy (Ken Rawlings)

Scheme.NET (Indiana University)

IronScheme (CodePlex Community)


All of this end up as ASSEMBLY CODE which is not Language dependent.


On PHP, I believe it has it's place and part in the programming world. I understand there are more cut and paste PHP developers than there are actual talented developers who are able to write an application from scratch but I do believe PHP for web is needed.

wavemasta:

someone else thats also frustrated with PHP, Java rocks so much, *sigh

Abi oo,  I think people on here focus TOO MUCH On language and not enough time on other things that actually matter. At the end of the day it is not about the language but how good you are at what you know. Even if Javascript or any other scripting language , is all you can handle, focus on learning all you can of it and strive to become an expert in that area. Expand your skills and broaden your focus and that counts more than then number of languages or the caliber of the language you choose in the end.

What is wrong with PHP? Sites like Digg.com and even Facebook.com are coded in PHP

Hey coders what are we bragging about in here, PHP is This .NET is That, Java is Them, Open Source is Boo and on and on we go bragging about things that are very irrelevant. I am an open source advocate and i do most of my development in it. Personally i have a strong dislike for using open source pre-packaged application because it does not give you room to understand the philosophy of a language. Someone once said that learning a programming language does not only ends with learning the syntax and semantics, but more importantly, understanding the philosophy of the language; that way you could sit down and develop applications that people will look at and marvel at the concept behind it, One such application that i have taking time to look at the programming concept is Joomla. I must commend the brains behind that application because that is what i called an real application, every single line of code they wrote had a reason for it and the architecture of Joomla is something those of us who profess to be programmers should study in depth.
The problem is we want to learn programming just to use the knowledge to make money, which is very much ok, but it is a wrong reason for wanting to code. Just imagine that Joomla was to be built by a Nigerian coder, he would not be thinking what he would contribute to the developers community but how much he would make from selling it. The majority of the western developers code for the sake of imprinting there names in history and that is why the do things that we are not likely to do.

I recalled i posted sometime back about building an online payment system that is independent of all those big e-payment giants; it is a concept that would take time to build, but how many of us in the house would be willing to work collaboratively on it? How many would honestly work on it for the sake of delivering us from the powerful monopolistic players in the market that would squeeze every dine from us just to integrate our applications with there gateway and not have ulterior motive of hijacking to code when it is near completion.
It is rather unfortunate. If only we would think like the likes of Eric Raymond ( Open source evangelist), Kevin Mitnick ( Greatest hacker of our time) and the rest who used the languages they have learned to create what was not, then we would not sit here and be bragging about what language we know but be trudging down the street like the Brain in Pinky and The Brain , planning how to take over the world.

I did not start this thread to start a "flame war", i started it to express my irritation about the avalanche of "social networks" and "forums" that we have in Nigeria that have no value. To the people who challenged me on what i have done, i have developed a web payment platform which is in the process of being deployed on amazon's web services, so it will be up very soon.

To the guy who said that Python is a .Net language (LOL) Python and IronPython are 2 totally different beasts, just like saying that UNIX and LINUX are the same thing. Ironpython is just a clone of the python language that runs on the .NET platform. Just to let you know this, i wont code on any "MACROSOFT" platform or language even if you held a gun to my head.

Consider this line of code in Python:

PRINT "HELLO WORLD"

the above writes the string "HELLO WORLD" to the screen. Please give me the equivalent in C# or even Java.
Python, Ruby or Lisp Hackers are people who love the art of programming, they did not learn UB.MET or D#.MET just to get a job, it is a labour of love to them and that is why they beat the so called .MET programmers hands down any day.

And yet again,  intention is revealed. This is just another one of those ridiculous posts about how " THE LANGUAGES I CHOOSE ARE BETTER THAN YOURS".

Can't we all just get off this and focus on being the best at what we do?? Why all the shallow ideals? Who cares what language you write in and what your definition of powerful language is?? the fact is that you get to be best at what you do and try not to keep putting your foot in your mouth when it comes to processes you have little knowledge of.

Programming is not about bragging rights but about how good you are and can be at what you do. I have utmost respect for programmers who are experts in Javascript, same I have for programmers who are experts in C, ADA, SmallTalk or COBOL experience or any other language out there. It is not about the language but the dedication to skill building and knowledge that counts. The Job Market is clear on this as well.

I suspect majority of those who start these language war threads are newbies who have are yet to discover what it really means to be a developer/programmer/Engineer/Architect. Can we please end this nonsense and start focusing more on what matters??

Thank you for your shallow understanding of the point that i was trying to prove. But the sad thing is that educating your ignorance is not on the list of my priorities. I am definitely not a newbie, if you feel i am that is your problem, but the whole point of this post was to tell programmers to stop churning out their endless "forums" and "social networks"

aitoehigie:

Thank you for your shallow understanding of the point that i was trying to prove. But the sad thing is that educating your ignorance is not on the list of my priorities. I am definitely not a newbie, if you feel i am that is your problem, but the whole point of this post was to tell programmers to[b] stop churning out their endless "forums" and "social networks"[/b]

That seemed more like the starting point of your post but subsequent posts already show you another MY-LANGUAGE-IS-BETTER-THAN-YOURS rambler.

ps. The syntax in IronPython or the other spins on the same language are the same

PRINT "HELLO" works on all. That syntax even works in COBOL and C++;

Spending time on research is not a bad idea. I am currently working on compiling a Python-zope app to IronPython and so far, not had any problems. Are you sure your fixation on the idea that language is necessarily better than the other is really a healthy one? While you are telling programmers to stop churning out their endless "forums" can we also demand that you stop with the "Language ego Trip"?.

Please read some of Paul Graham's articles and you will understand what i am trying to prove to you. The less verbose a language is the more powerful it is.
Comparing Python's

PRINT "HELLO WORLD"

to C++

#INCLUDE <IOSTREAM.H>

MAIN VOID {
COUT<<"HELLO WORLD"<<ENDL;
RETURN 0;
}

you will understand what i mean. Saying that all languages are equal really shows your gross ignorance. Can you compare a language like LISP to COBOL? Can you do the same thing in them?

P.S You mentioned ZOPE, do human beings still use ZOPE? when you have frameworks like Django, web2py, webpy and turbogears?

Again ,

Kobojunkie:

While you are telling programmers to stop churning out their endless "forums" can we also demand that you stop with the "Language ego Trip"?.

nice thread. only problem is u have not yet suggested any ideas to programmers.

just learning JAVA and i think it's better than the VB i know

@ poster

Different Language for different uses.  I understand that you are trying to make a point but you don't go about it calling people dumb. Create something that is successful then let your work speak for it self, until then piss off.

aitoehigie:

The reason why i said that Nigerian programmers are dumb is that even the social networks or forums like this one, where not even coded by them, they only downloaded open source PHP projects, slapped their names on it and "eureka" a new web 2.0 application is born. Like i said, there are a million and one things that we can develop that will fit into this country that we are in.

I would like to ask, what value does a "social network" like e.g. "handwork.com.ng" etc add to your life? compared to a site like Google? Do not get me wrong. i am not insinuating that you should go and develop a search engine (but if you can, please go ahead). I am only saying that when we want to develop applications, it should be an itch that we have.
Examples:
1. hotmail was developed by 2 programmers who had problems sending mails using their internal office exchange server.
2. Yahoo was created by Jerry and David who used it to save the links to all the interesting web pages that they knew of.
Please the list is endless

Way forward:
Please drop the proprietary languages, platforms and IDEs that you use to code. Please (MACROSOFT) i don't want to mention names here, doeskin care about the programmer living in the heart of Africa!. So use open source languages e.g. Python, Ruby, Lisp, Scheme, these may be unknown languages to most people, but they are extremely powerful and simple languages unlike "KAVA" and the .MET languages.

I will continue this post later, but please NIGERIAN PROGRAMMERS, lets do something different.
thanks
The Sicilian.

And what have you done with that intelligent mind of yours?

Something you might never be able to do. At least i did not download an open source forum called "Simple Machines Forum" and name it "Dollarland.com" I have just finished developing a web payment system (I would have sent you the source code, but i guess not, you might be stumped by it, its not in PHP) which i am in the process of deploying on Amazon's EC2 and S3 (if you know what that is).
?
I GUESS I AM GOING TO BE BANNED FROM THIS "FORUM"FOR THIS DISS, AS IF I CARE!!!

I'm not the one who posted a thread claiming Nigerian programmers are dumb, am I?

"An old woman becomes uneasy at the mention of creaky bones"

what does this new payment system you developed have that paypal and others don't? when you answer that question, then you may be able to avoid being accused of reinventing the wheel (with your "let's do something different" talk). the exact same thing you have accused nigerian programmers of.

I'm convinced without any sort of doubt that this aitotomige  fellow is mad.

First he comes to a Nigerian Programmer froum and starts a topic 'Why are Nigerian Programmers so dumb'?

Then he proceeds to go on some senseless rant about how what programming languages define how intelligent people are, how social websites such as facebook only have clones and some more putrid nonesense that my brain must have vomited on immediate consumption and as such I am incapable of repeating.

Just because you *intend* to develop some funny thing on Amazons servers in Ireland/Europe does not give you the right to tell us whether one language is better than the other, or what we should develop with our time and our talent. The fact that in your infinite 'wisdom' your biggest accomplishment (or at the very least what you  believed would impres us ) was the development of an e-purchase site which will be hosted by Amazon gives me a brief insight into what kind of person you are.

I'd be more impressed if you hosted it yourself and devloped the dbms with which you host your site completely in Python with complete RDBMS ACIDIDTY!

Using your (terrribly flawed) logic, the most useless/incapable/verbose programming language on this planet is Assembly Language!

Someone please change this topic to ' Why is aitoehigie so naive?'

Your Good Friend
The Nigerian

sompe people's ITK will kill them

It only takes a mad man to recognize another one. This is thanking you for coming out of the closet and acknowledging that fact that you have always tried to suppress within you. I dont need to impress anyone here in "dollarland.com" I am only stating facts which you guys are finding a little bit hard to swallow.
Or are you also guilty of the sin of creating another "Dollarland.com" or "handywork.ng.com"?
LOL!!! get a life

AT least we gave come to a concensus that we are both mad! That is a start. Now to measure the boundaries of our insanity.

Now you mention facts! Name one fact that you have pointed in this thread?

Can you differentiate between a matter of fact and an opinion?

Was I wrong in stating that you cannot possible decipher asm program?

Do you know what DBMS will used when you deploy your online payment facility , or whatever you call that 'thing' you are putting on amazon?

Can you create a DBMS with Python? Or is 'Hello World' the measure of your abilities?

Make no mistake, its not my madness that makes me able to see beyond your naivete, its my programming know-how!

And please don't speak to other members of the fora as they are sane and may not understand you!

Keep your malady to yourself as I have

Your fellow Madman,
Another Dollarland creator

i dnt knw wat y'all are arguing abt...... you knw wat u want to build... you knw the language that is best for you.. ..learn it nd use it.. ..some languages might bt hard for some and easy for others.... like me, i find it easy wen am learning python. than when am learning HTML... i knw they dont do dsame job bt dats how it is for me..... stop complicating thing for other young developers who are still, i almost got lost in myself at the point where u guys are talking abt which one is powerful nd which one is bad. BTW am still an amateur so dnt critisize me if i said something wrong.

BTW...... am still looking for a programming forum made by Nigerians for Nigerians.... am tired of goin onto xda or nullbyte and all the sort with so many white guys on it...... a forum like this would be great!.... cab someone help me with dat

I am a Nigerian, I am a programmer and I am not dumb. I also have never dreamt or imagine recreating facebook. So maybe you need to rename your thread. Also, social is the bread and butter of any software you build today. Mostly because social brings engagement and retention. When you create that fantastic application you need social media to bring the users that would make your effort worth it.

So, is it wrong learning to program in open source languages? I am a newbie, trying to perfect my skills in PHP/javascript before moving on something else. Someone should say something.