Joshthefirst: an atheist might soon come here to indoctrinate you ma'am.

Man does not attain perfection by death.
When we die, we stand before God in judgement. If you have done sin, you stand condemned. And God as a judge judge, will condemn any sinful man to hell. If you have never sinned in your life, you're okay. But as far as I know, all have sinned. That's why we need Jesus. With his sacrifice, we are acquitted before God.

Sir,
Be not bothered about atheist indoctrination,However the fact that I am a Christian does not mean I can not ask questions in order to attain better understanding .
I still feel man lives a life predetermined by God and has no free will and yet has to account for these predestined actions on a judgment day.
Another fact is man is also expected to resist the temptations of the devil.

TheMadame:

Sir,
Be not bothered about atheist indoctrination,However the fact that I am a Christian does not mean I can not ask questions in order to attain better understanding .
I still feel man lives a life predetermined by God and has no free will and yet has to account for these predestined actions on a judgment day.
Another fact is man is also expected to resist the temptations of the devil.

man does have freewill. His life is decided by himself ma'am.
God just knows the end from the beginning. He does not make man's choices for him. Yes. We are expected to overcome temptation. Infact, as a christian, sin is no longer a problem. We are able to overcome temptation. We have been freed from the helpless dead-end of sin as christians. We realized the fact that we were guilty sinners, and we trusted In Gods mercy, and were saved from his wrath.

TheMadame: Thank you all for your enlightening contributions. However I am a wee bit confused by the fact that man is a slave condemned to worship God/Allah perpetually in order to die for him to attain perfection(heaven).
Since God is all knowing then every event is predetermined by God.So man does not have free will so how can man be held accountable for his actions that are predetermined by The omnipotent God?

Man has been given freewill,a choice to choose between right and wrong but Allah(swt) in his unlimited knowledge as the creator of man knows what man will choose.
For example,there's a teacher who has been teaching for a long period of time,then there's a student in his class who doesn't read nor pay attention in class and play a lot.Then,the teacher says before the commencement of the exams that this particular student will fail his exams and in the end,the student failed.Who's to blame? Teacher for saying the student will fail or student for not reading? The student can't say I failed the examination because the teacher said so,he has the opportunity to read or not to read,freewill.The teacher said so because he has been teaching that subject for a long period of time and has a knowledge of how students like that perform in exams.
Similarly,Allah(swt) far far more knowledgeable than the teacher and has the knowledge of the unseen knows what will happen to a man because he's his creator.So man has a freewill to choose between good and bad and Allah(swt) already knows what man will choose in his unlimited knowledge,he's All-Knower,All-Seer and Allah(swt) knows best.....Peace

Joshthefirst: have you ever bropken the torah sir?

What do you mean by broken the torah? Torah is the revelation given to Moses(pbuh) to guide his people only.The glorious Quran is the last and final revelation of Allah sent to guide mankind as a whole.....Peace

I for one find it strange that man exists to worship and praise a self sufficient God. God is not susposed to need man for anything,since he is protrayed to have all positive attributes.
From this kind of thought process,it means God can not exist with out man praising him or as some one said earlier-is God a creation of mans mind?

^
I hope you are not implying that God will cease to exist if man did not think about God. I find such thoughts rather extreme.

Dantedasz: I for one find it strange that man exists to worship and praise a self sufficient God. God is not susposed to need man for anything,since he is protrayed to have all positive attributes.

It's man that needs Allah,Allah is free of all needs[Surah Fatir 35:15].If the whole humanity reject the worship Allah,then Allah isn't in need of their worship[Surah Ibrahim 14:8]

From this kind of thought process,it means God can not exist with out man praising him or as some one said earlier-is God a creation of mans mind?

Allah(swt) will continue to exist without man praising or worshipping Him.If mankind failed to worship Allah,then the Angels will never fail to do so.Allah says in the glorious Quran in Surah Al-Araf 7:206 -Surely,those who are with your Lord (angels) are never too proud to perform acts of worship to Him,but they glorify His Praise and prostrate before Him.
Surah Al-Anbiyaa 21:19 -To Him belongs whosoever is in the heavens and on earth. And those who are near Him (i.e. the angels) are not too proud to worship Him, nor are they weary (of His worship).
Surah Fussilat 41:38 -But if they(mankind) are too proud (to do the worship of Allah),then there are those who are with your Lord (angels) glorify Him night and day,and never are they tired..To Allah(swt)belongs all Praises.....Peace

From the responses I get, it just seems everybody is confused and some are bent on describing God the best way that suits him.
But we fail to realize that we are talking about the supposed creator of the world who has always been existing and will life for eternity.
What is all this talk about trying to explain him and his ways like he is our mate: he know the end from the begining, he will punish us if we fail to worship him(yet u don't see this to mean that he seriously needs the worship), he is kind(what kind person fails to love those who hate and does everything within his power to save them, besides he has the power to save all his loving creatures and make them spend eternity with him).
All I see here is man trying to define the creator of the world to fit his selfish desire.
To me, if God created this world and put us there out of his own free will. Then the only obligation we have as humans is to live this life to the best of our ability and not trying to talk about the creator of this world like he is ahuman being. What ever he has in mind for creating this world is what exactly is happning.
He does not make mistake and he does not regret. What ever u do when u wake up is what he has always planned. He does not intefer like our parents interfer in our life. He is this world and everything that happens is how he has set it to be. No special love for a particular set, no need for worship, not plan for punishment, no regret, no anger, and no human attribute.

frank3.16:
From the responses I get, it just seems everybody is confused and some are bent on describing God the best way that suits him.
But we fail to realize that we are talking about the supposed creator of the world who has always been existing and will life for eternity.
What is all this talk about trying to explain him and his ways like he is our mate: he know the end from the begining, he will punish us if we fail to worship him(yet u don't see this to mean that he seriously needs the worship), he is kind(what kind person fails to love those who hate and does everything within his power to save them, besides he has the power to save all his loving creatures and make them spend eternity with him).
All I see here is man trying to define the creator of the world to fit his selfish desire.
To me, if God created this world and put us there out of his own free will. Then the only obligation we have as humans is to live this life to the best of our ability and not trying to talk about the creator of this world like he is ahuman being. What ever he has in mind for creating this world is what exactly is happning.
He does not make mistake and he does not regret. What ever u do when u wake up is what he has always planned. He does not intefer like our parents interfer in our life. He is this world and everything that happens is how he has set it to be. No special love for a particular set, no need for worship, not plan for punishment, no regret, no anger, and no human attribute.

hello Frank.
What took you guys so long to get here?

How many times do we have to tell you that God punishes justly in Hell mans sin and wickedness and not mans refusal to worship before it sinks in sir?
The soul that sinneth. It shall die.

God has already saved. People grasp and see this everyday. Your thoughts and opinions of the creator are myopic and flawed. What more do you want Frank? He has saved. His message of salvation is preached everyday . How long will it take for you to realize that God is powerful and he cares in a personal way?

What you speak is human wisdom.
This is God's wisdom: live life in view of eternity. Be blessed as you get right with God and walk with him. Keep in God as you trust Jesus and stay away from sin.

Man is a free-willed moral agent, and will account for his choice and actions and words and thoughts and life on judgement.

You are the one trying to paint God in your perspective. We know God

Oga Josh, abeg, just save your posts, then copy and paste on future threads. It will save you the hassle of....


Na, go on.

Joshthefirst: hello Frank.
What took you guys so long to get here?

How many times do we have to tell you that God punishes justly in Hell mans sin and wickedness and not mans refusal to worship before it sinks in sir?
The soul that sinneth. It shall die.

God has already saved. People grasp and see this everyday. Your thoughts and opinions of the creator are myopic and flawed. What more do you want Frank? He has saved. His message of salvation is preached everyday . How long will it take for you to realize that God is powerful and he cares in a personal way?

What you speak is human wisdom.
This is God's wisdom: live life in view of eternity. Be blessed as you get right with God and walk with him. Keep in God as you trust Jesus and stay away from sin.

Man is a free-willed moral agent, and will account for his choice and actions and words and thoughts and life on judgement.

You are the one trying to paint God in your perspective. We know God

Oga what are you saying? why art thou shooting yourself in the leg? you described God as knowing the End From the beginning and Man having freewill?
Take this instance

There's a box full of Red(Heaven) and Yellow(Hell) Balls given all the character of God as u want us believe described in your holy book , A man is asked to pick from the box given all the attributes you claim for God It//He/She already knows mr A will pick a yellow ball(Hell) If Mr A doesn't Pick A Yellow Ball(Hell) doesn't that contradict the Omniscient quality of the bible God?

God as conceived by me I don't think God Anthropomorphic as described by the Christian and Islam Religions ,I Don't think the Real God is anything near what is described in the bible and quran i don't think He/She/It gives two shi*ts(excuse ma french) let alone intervenes or needs any of ya'll prayers.

Nolongthing1:


Oga what are you saying? why art thou shooting yourself in the leg? you described God as knowing the End From the beginning and Man having freewill?
Take this instance

There's a box full of Red(Heaven) and Yellow(Hell) Balls given all the character of God as u want us believe described in your holy book , A man is asked to pick from the box given all the attributes you claim for God It//He/She already knows mr A will pick a yellow ball(Hell) If Mr A doesn't Pick A Yellow Ball(Hell) doesn't that contradict the Omniscient quality of the bible God?

God as conceived by me I don't think God Anthropomorphic as described by the Christian and Islam Religions ,I Don't think the Real God is anything near what is described in the bible and quran i don't think He/She/It gives two shi*ts(excuse ma french) let alone intervenes or needs any of ya'll prayers.

I hear.
God will intervene and warn you to stop sinning so as not to choose the yellow ball. He still knows your choice.
You are the same person who will blame God as unjust when you choose the yellow ball and tell him he didn't warn you there was something as terrible and dangerous as hell.

You are the one who will blame him for not trying to intervene to warn you if he doesn't. But thank God! God is all knowing and not limited to your narrow and false thinking.
He has sent us to warn you. His finger backs our very words. So you will be without excuse on judgement if you get the yellow ball.

Your example shows just how narrow minded and crude your thinking has become.

Joshthefirst: hello Frank.
What took you guys so long to get here?

How many times do we have to tell you that God punishes justly in Hell mans sin and wickedness and not mans refusal to worship before it sinks in sir?
The soul that sinneth. It shall die.

God has already saved. People grasp and see this everyday. Your thoughts and opinions of the creator are myopic and flawed. What more do you want Frank? He has saved. His message of salvation is preached everyday . How long will it take for you to realize that God is powerful and he cares in a personal way?

What you speak is human wisdom.
This is God's wisdom: live life in view of eternity. Be blessed as you get right with God and walk with him. Keep in God as you trust Jesus and stay away from sin.

Man is a free-willed moral agent, and will account for his choice and actions and words and thoughts and life on judgement.

You are the one trying to paint God in your perspective. We know God

Unfortunately u are in no position to tell me any bullsh.it about God. Ur knowledge on how this world came about it as limited as mine. U are no authority and u are nobody to speak for the creator of this world.
If the creator thinks it is necessary for me to understand him, he will communicate to me, till then ur opinion is rubish to me.
Why do u think ur knowledge of him is the ultimate? Is ur knowledge of him the only knowledge on earth about the creator? Why can't u see beyound ur selfishness?
Why do u paint God as a man who loves so much drama? U don't even know how foolish(forgive my use of this word, I have no other word to qualify u) u are when u claim u know the creator of this world.
I see a difference in the life of people who know obama, but can't see any differnce in the life of people who claim they know the creator of the world, what a shame.
All I am saying is if God created this world, he did it out of his own free will. If so, why must he give us free will and punish us for using the freewill the way we like and claim he loves us.
What is all this confusion about him knowing us before we were born yet he does not know thta we are destines for hell. Why do u create all this confusing in the bid to xplain someone u know. Do I need anyone to explain my father to me? It is my fathers duty to do that.
So why do u make God incapable of being God, the creator of the universe, in the bid to fit him into ur own concept of him?

Joshthefirst: I hear.
God will intervene and warn you to stop sinning so as not to choose the yellow ball. He still knows your choice.
You are the same person who will blame God as unjust when you choose the yellow ball and tell him he didn't warn you there was something as terrible and dangerous as hell.

You are the one who will blame him for not trying to intervene to warn you if he doesn't. But thank God! God is all knowing and not limited to your narrow and false thinking.
He has sent us to warn you. His finger backs our very words. So you will be without excuse on judgement if you get the yellow ball.

Your example shows just how narrow minded and crude your thinking has become.

Excuse me sir why do you have to label me narrow minded because i'm not thinking along the same lines with you?

You talked about warning blah blah blah and what's not whay does the warning change ? when God already knows Mr A is gonna chose the yellow ball and don't forget The God you also profess also knpws that no amount of warning whatsoever can make Mr A not chose the yellow ball, don't u think if Mr A should chose the other color it'll be a false knowledge of your Hypothetical God and please i don't exchange words online, behave your self.

aManFromMars: Oga Josh, abeg, just save your posts, then copy and paste on future threads. It will save you the hassle of....


Na, go on.

Is mocking all you do?
This is serious stuff. Its about your eternal well being. I hope you don't end up in terrible hell musk, but if you do, remember we warned you of its reality. Remember we told you of the consequence of sin. Remember we prayed for you and spoke boldly and strongly with you.

Choose!
There is a path that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof is death.


Deuteronomy 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil; 16 In that I command thee this day to love the Lord thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live...

Nolongthing1:


Excuse me sir why do you have to label me narrow minded because i'm not thinking along the same lines with you?

just trying to show you how human mind is in comparison with God.

Nolongthing1:
You talked about warning blah blah blah and what's not whay does the warning change ? when God already knows Mr A is gonna chose the yellow ball and don't forget The God you also profess also knpws that no amount of warning whatsoever can make Mr A not chose the yellow ball, don't u think if Mr A should chose the other color it'll be a false knowledge of your Hypothetical God and please i don't exchange words online, behave your self.

God will try to influence you to make the right choice because he loves you and because you'll be the one who will say he didn't try to stop you from entering into hell.
You just might change, but the choice is yours. He just knows the end, but he does not manipulate you. As a loving father, he'll advise you to make the right choice.

Joshthefirst: I hear.
God will intervene and warn you to stop sinning so as not to choose the yellow ball. He still knows your choice.
You are the same person who will blame God as unjust when you choose the yellow ball and tell him he didn't warn you there was something as terrible and dangerous as hell.

You are the one who will blame him for not trying to intervene to warn you if he doesn't. But thank God! God is all knowing and not limited to your narrow and false thinking.
He has sent us to warn you. His finger backs our very words. So you will be without excuse on judgement if you get the yellow ball.

Your example shows just how narrow minded and crude your thinking has become.

No, ur xplanation shows how narrow minded u are.
What is the use of warning me not to chose the yellow ball when he knows I will definately end up in hell? Except u are telling he does not know those who will end up in hell. If so, the statement "I knew u before u were born" is useless.
If he knows my choice then I don't have freewill. I must have to do what he knows, if not he was wrong all the while in his knowledge of me.
What is the point in knowing my choice yet give me freewill.
Why give me free will and punish me for the choice I make.
I came to this world because he brought me. I didn't know who created good or evil. But I am given freewill to chose either in other to survive. Yet he knew I will chose evil weather he sends u to talk to me or not.
What with all these drama anywayz. Why does the creator of the world have to act like a lunatic in ur concept of him.
Why should I be punished if my perception of ur perception of him is faulty and I reject it?
Why did he give me the choice to choose if he knows he will punish me for choosing? Wasn't he the one that created me? Did I create myself?

frank3.16:


No, ur xplanation shows how narrow minded u are.
What is the use of warning me not to chose the yellow ball when he knows I will definately end up in hell? Except u are telling he does not know those who will end up in hell. If so, the statement "I knew u before u were born" is useless.
If he knows my choice then I don't have freewill. I must have to do what he knows, if not he was wrong all the while in his knowledge of me.
What is the point in knowing my choice yet give me freewill.
Why give me free will and punish me for the choice I make.
I came to this world because he brought me. I didn't know who created good or evil. But I am given freewill to chose either in other to survive. Yet he knew I will chose evil weather he sends u to talk to me or not.
What with all these drama anywayz. Why does the creator of the world have to act like a lunatic in ur concept of him.
Why should I be punished if my perception of ur perception of him is faulty and I reject it?
Why did he give me the choice to choose if he knows he will punish me for choosing? Wasn't he the one that created me? Did I create myself?

you are trying to blame God for your bad choices sir.
You cannot blame God for your sin. Sin is sin. Your conscience bears witness.

If he knows your choice, then you don't have freewill? I'm sure you're smarter than this sir. Think again. That he knows you'll choose to continue in sin despite all warning and the fact that he has warned you of the just punishment(damnation) will not stop him from warning you again and again, unless he is not a just God.

Why won't he punish you for choosing to continue in wrong doing? You are a grown man responsible for your actions.

He gave you freewill so that you'll willingly use it to find satisfaction is doing good and keeping his law.

He has already given you the consequence for your wrong doing and the way out. If you choose to reject that, then you deserve his just punishment.

Joshthefirst: you are trying to blame God for your bad choices sir.
You cannot blame God for your sin. Sin is sin. Your conscience bears witness.

If he knows your choice, then you don't have freewill? I'm sure you're smarter than this sir. Think again. That he knows you'll choose to continue in sin despite all warning and the fact that he has warned you of the just punishment(damnation) will not stop him from warning you again and again, unless he is not a just God.

Why won't he punish you for choosing to continue in wrong doing? You are a grown man responsible for your actions.

He gave you freewill so that you'll willingly use it to find satisfaction is doing good and keeping his law.

He has already given you the consequence for your wrong doing and the way out. If you choose to reject that, then you deserve his just punishment.

I am not blaming God for anything, rather you are the one saying things that would make any reasonable human being blame him!!

Sin can be sin, who cares? I have conscience and when I do any bad thing, my conscience tells me. That is how whoever or whatever created me programed to be.
Why would he punish me for acting the way he programed me to act.
U and I know u cannot, I repeat, cannot live in this world without doing evil. Can't u claim u have never commited sin since u gave ur life to christ?But isn't that a different matter?
Is selfishness a sin? U don't even know jack about the world u are. My friend u are no different from me, u just claim u are better, bt in reality u know u are not.
This life is all about survival, and we came to meet it that way. Nobody is punishing anybody for what he created. He created good and evil. And made both necessary for survival.
Therefore stop shoving ur ideology in people's throat.
Ok... Let's do a little role play. Do u know u will be punisd by me if u don't believe in my own ideologies?
If u find that laughable, then u should understand that I find ur laughable to. So stop being selfish.

@ op, has any1 heard of d anunaki, enki, enlil etc and hw they made man (ancient sumerian mythology)? An informed person shld enlighten us plz.

"I praise and worship God therefore he(GOD) exists."
God has been tailored to suit each individuals perception of him. Our primitive perceptions of God may not even remotely describe what God represents.

Dantedasz: I praise and worship God therefore he(GOD) exists.
God has been tailored to suit each individuals perception of him. Our primitive perceptions of God may not even remotely describe what God represents.

We tailor God to suit our individual perception of him..


Thank me later.

I find it hard to relate free will to the fact that God knows everything that is going to happen . Seems everything is predetermined by God.

TheMadame: I find it hard to relate free will to the fact that God knows everything that is going to happen . Seems everything is predetermined by God.

from the standpoint of an eternal judge and all-powerful creator who instituted the laws of the universe and time and space, and is bound by none. Its quite easy to reconcile the fact that God knows what is about to happen and he has given us freewill.

Check Jesus out, the bible says he knew judas was going to betray him, but he didn't cast him away, he didn't stop loving him or treat him in an unusual manner. He gave judas the chance to choose his alliance. And he choose against.

Just smh.

Jesus/God knew Judas would betray him even before Judas was born. Judas had to betray Jesus. Freewil, in the hands of an omniscient God, is an illusion. if god tells you to choose between good ac devil, he knows(before you make a choice) what choice you'll make, therefore you have to make that choice he 'knows'.


Erm, can you surprise God?

And try not to speak gibberish and 'repreach' salvation as you're wont to do. Just answer the blaadddy question.

aManFromMars: Just smh.

Jesus/God knew Judas would betray him even before Judas was born. Judas had to betray Jesus. Freewil, in the hands of an omniscient God, is an illusion. if god tells you to choose between good ac devil, he knows(before you make a choice) what choice you'll make, therefore you have to make that choice he 'knows'

What are you saying? Smh. Did you read my post at all? God knows the choice you'll make, but the choice is yours independently to make. You are not forced to fulfil any predated destiny although it is known. The path of your life is yours to choose. Try to reason outside the box like you claim to do.

aManFromMars: Erm, can you surprise God?

And try not to speak gibberish and 'repreach' salvation as you're wont to do. Just answer the blaadddy question.

no you can't but you're responsible for your actions. Smh. Now I know why they call you papa ekene.

Joshthefirst: from the standpoint of an eternal judge and all-powerful creator who instituted the laws of the universe and time and space, and is bound by none. Its quite easy to reconcile the fact that God knows what is about to happen and he has given us freewill.

Check Jesus out, the bible says he knew judas was going to betray him, but he didn't cast him away, he didn't stop loving him or treat him in an unusual manner. He gave judas the chance to choose his alliance. And he choose against.

My friend stop trying to change Jesus/Judas story to suit ur own personal belief. You are nt talking to kids here, we all know that story.
Judas was not give any chance? It was already written that he would betray christ, even when Judas himself didn't know. Wasn't the coming of Christ to die for manking already written? Do you think that how Christ would die wouldn't have been taken care of by the almighty God?
Judas fulfilled his destiny when he betrayed Jesus.

I want to ask you, do u think there was other probable ways that Jesus christ would have died apart from what was written in the bible? Answer this and I will call u God.

Joshthefirst: from the standpoint of an eternal judge and all-powerful creator who instituted the laws of the universe and time and space, and is bound by none. Its quite easy to reconcile the fact that God knows what is about to happen and he has given us freewill.

Check Jesus out, the bible says he knew judas was going to betray him, but he didn't cast him away, he didn't stop loving him or treat him in an unusual manner. He gave judas the chance to choose his alliance. And he choose against.

My friend stop trying to change Jesus/Judas story to suit ur own personal belief. You are nt talking to kids here, we all know that story.
Judas was not give any chance? It was already written that he would betray christ, even when Judas himself didn't know. Wasn't the coming of Christ to die for manking already written? Do you think that how Christ would die wouldn't have been taken care of by the almighty God?
Judas fulfilled his destiny when he betrayed Jesus.

I want to ask you, do u think there was other probable ways that Jesus christ would have died apart from what was written in the bible? Answer this and I will call u God.

Joshthefirst: from the standpoint of an eternal judge and all-powerful creator who instituted the laws of the universe and time and space, and is bound by none. Its quite easy to reconcile the fact that God knows what is about to happen and he has given us freewill.

Check Jesus out, the bible says he knew judas was going to betray him, but he didn't cast him away, he didn't stop loving him or treat him in an unusual manner. He gave judas the chance to choose his alliance. And he choose against.

My friend stop trying to change Jesus/Judas story to suit ur own personal belief. You are nt talking to kids here, we all know that story.
Judas was not give any chance? It was already written that he would betray christ, even when Judas himself didn't know. Wasn't the coming of Christ to die for manking already written? Do you think that how Christ would die wouldn't have been taken care of by the almighty God?
Judas fulfilled his destiny when he betrayed Jesus.

I want to ask you, do u think there was other probable ways that Jesus christ would have died apart from what was written in the bible? Answer this and I will call u God.

Joshthefirst:
What are you saying? Smh. Did you read my post at all? God knows the choice you'll make, but the choice is yours independently to make. You are not forced to fulfil any predated destiny although it is known. The path of your life is yours to choose. Try to reason outside the box like you claim to do.

no you can't but you're responsible for your actions. Smh. Now I know why they call you papa ekene.

Can I surprise God? If God knows what choice I'll make before I make it, can I deviate from what he already knows?

Make I no find name for you o. : o'ban'diah, macbantuji, image120lodo, Hbgaddafi, Ajiban... U wan join d list abi?

aManFromMars:


Can I surprise God? If God knows what choice I'll make before I make it, can I deviate from what he already knows?

no you can't surprise God. He knows the end from the beginning. He knows the choice you're gonna make, but its not about you deviating or not deviating from anything. It's your choice to make. Gods complete foreknowledge and your freewill are independent. They agree, but based on YOUR final decision.

Make I no find name for you o. : o'ban'diah, macbantuji, image120lodo, Hbgaddafi, Ajiban... U wan join d list abi?

Abeg!! Who dey fear you papa ekene?

Joshthefirst: no you can't surprise God. He knows the end from the beginning. He knows the choice you're gonna make, but its not about you deviating or not deviating from anything. It's your choice to make. Gods complete foreknowledge and your freewill are independent. They agree, but based on YOUR final decision.


Abeg!! Who dey fear you papa ekene?

JoshtheFufu, abeg which comes first? God's knowledge of my action OR my action?