I got this off the frontpage, and it draws an interesting conclusion.

1-Google developed a neural computer network that learned what a CAT was without human interaction!
This fact may leave you scratching your head wondering what the heck that means, and while the technology is extremely advanced, the concept is actually quite simple. Besides reinventing the world as we know it with new gadgets such as the Google Glasses and the Google Car, they have now created one of Earth’s largest self-learning “unsupervised” neural networks, which roughly translates to a robot brain.
The computer is so sophisticated it is able to perform tasks considered impossible using traditional algorithms, such as finding cute cats on the Internet. To test the network, a team fed the machine 10 million thumbnails of random YouTube videos. Without telling the software what to look for, by itself the program sorted the data in a hierarchical fashion, forming groups of similar videos.
After “watching” the YouTube videos, scientists asked the program what a cat looked like, and amazingly it created its own image, shown on the side, from prior data that looks almost exactly like a cat! In other words, this proved that the software is able to think for itself and recall images just like a human brain!

Kay 17: I got this off the frontpage, and it draws an interesting conclusion.

Proof that consciousness and intelligence are not divine attributes, but are generated by mathematical thresholds of electrical activity, just as happens in the brains of living things.

I thought about that also, yet a theist's view will be entertained.

I admire artificial intelligence but not without control. The implication in the future would be disastrous.
I think one can make a better sense if he understands the robot perfectly. If one can get the complete specifications and working mechanism of the robot, I think, that's when we can know the right thing to say.
The information above is not sufficient to build an argument.

There are some ambitious trans humanist projects like the 2045 initiative which aims to create technologies for the transfer of human consciousness into an artificial brain...sounds outlandish but who can tell..

And in respect to the design of function of the computer network?

Kay 17: I thought about that also, yet a theist's view will be entertained.

I'm not looking to enter a debate here. My intention is to simply state my perspective since you stated that you would entertain the view of a theist. As a theist, this evidences to me that only an intelligible conscious mind, and not an unguided process, can create another mind.

plaetton:
Proof that consciousness and intelligence are not divine attributes, but are generated by mathematical thresholds of electrical activity, just as happens in the brains of living things.

Proof?? Really?? I laugh in dothraki

There's no such thing as artificial consciousness. You rush too quickly and naively to declare the above. The only proof here is your lack of understanding of the world of computing and programming. What the robot in the OP does is simply captures data, identifies/determines patterns in the data and organizes such data to simulate learning(it's actually a trick in it's algorithm, rather than actual learning). Like I said before, there's no such thing as artificial or computer borne consciousness. Consciousness entails self-awareness, self-identity, self-determination(eg: ambition) and self-preservation. How can a computer be any of these. Does this program ever ask itself why it is doing what it is doing? It can't because it is not self-conscious. A conscious entity would be aware that it acts in certain ways either out of pleasure, or the will to survive or dominate in it's environment, etc, in other words self-interest. So what is the self-interest of this program? None!! It's just a robot, just processing what it's programmed to process in order to simulate learning.

Kay 17: I thought about that also, yet a theist's view will be entertained.

You mis-thought, just like @plaetton.

Consciousness has always been, still is, and will always be divine. Life has never been demonstrated to emerge from any non-life material in any lab or in any scientific theory.

okeyxyz:

Proof?? Really?? I laugh in dothraki

There's no such thing as artificial consciousness. You rush too quickly and naively to declare the above. The only proof here is your lack of understanding of the world of computing and programming. What the robot in the OP does is simply captures data, identifies/determines patterns in the data and organizes such data to simulate learning(it's actually a trick in it's algorithm, rather than actual learning). Like I said before, there's no such thing as artificial or computer borne consciousness. Consciousness entails self-awareness, self-identity, self-determination(eg: ambition) and self-preservation. How can a computer be any of these. Does this program ever ask itself why it is doing what it is doing? It can't because it is not self-conscious. A conscious entity would be aware that it acts in certain ways either out of pleasure, or the will to survive or dominate in it's environment, etc, in other words self-interest. So what is the self-interest of this program? None!! It's just a robot, just processing what it's programmed to process in order to simulate learning.

Excellent point. It is highly advanced machine learning but it isn't sentient.

okeyxyz:

Proof?? Really?? I laugh in dothraki

There's no such thing as artificial consciousness. You rush too quickly and naively to declare the above. The only proof here is your lack of understanding of the world of computing and programming. What the robot in the OP does is simply captures data, identifies/determines patterns in the data and organizes such data to simulate learning(it's actually a trick in it's algorithm, rather than actual learning). Like I said before, there's no such thing as artificial or computer borne consciousness. Consciousness entails self-awareness, self-identity, self-determination(eg: ambition) and self-preservation. How can a computer be any of these. Does this program ever ask itself why it is doing what it is doing? It can't because it is not self-conscious. A conscious entity would be aware that it acts in certain ways either out of pleasure, or the will to survive or dominate in it's environment, etc, in other words self-interest. So what is the self-interest of this program? None!! It's just a robot, just processing what it's programmed to process in order to simulate learning.

Does consciousness necessarily exhibit self preservation? Self determination and self identity can be collapsed into self awareness (realization of the self).

You are nevertheless providing interesting points, and one I drew is, Intelligence can not be programmed nor actually created.

NativeBoy:

Excellent point. It is highly advanced machine learning but it isn't sentient.

Precisely.

NativeBoy:

Excellent point. It is highly advanced machine learning but it isn't sentient.

If a machine is actually capable of Learning, it therefore exhibits some sentience, because learning involves some sort of empathy. Stepping into the shoes of another person, and appreciating distinctions.

The beural computer is simply simulating aspects of human intelligence. It annoys me when people equate such successful simulation to artificial intelligence (or consciousness) which requires a computer to innovate outside of its programming and be self-aware in a manner like humans or mammals. This IMO is impossible.

Kay 17:

If a machine is actually capable of Learning, it therefore exhibits some sentience, because learning involves some sort of empathy. Stepping into the shoes of another person, and appreciating distinctions.

No ! Sentience means having a self. Computers don't have a self (or a persona or called a psyche).

Perhaps O should ask Okexyz if he thinks that a microscopic virus is conscious? Intelligent? Self-Aware? Ambitious? Is driven by self-preservation?
Is a virus a simple or complex organism?

And for Uyi,
Does a virus have a a self, a persona, a psyche?
Does it need any of the above?

plaetton: Perhaps O should ask Okexyz if he thinks that a microscopic virus is conscious? Intelligent? Self-Aware? Ambitious? Is driven by self-preservation?
Is a virus a simple or complex organism?

And for Uyi,
Does a virus have a a self, a persona, a psyche?
Does it need any of the above?

No, it doesn't. It doesn't need any of the things listed.

Uyi Iredia:

No, it doesn't. It doesn't need any of the things listed.

Is a virus intelligent, self-aware, conscious,purpose driven, fights to survive?

plaetton: Perhaps O should ask Okexyz if he thinks that a microscopic virus is conscious? Intelligent? Self-Aware? Ambitious? Is driven by self-preservation?
Is a virus a simple or complex organism?

And for Uyi,
Does a virus have a a self, a persona, a psyche?
Does it need any of the above?

Of course yes!! A virus is self aware to know when an environment is favorable for it's survival. If environment is good, then it feeds, grows and propagates(replicates itself to produce new generations). A virus can sense adverse environment that leads it to adaptive behaviours like forming cysts(goes into hibernation) in order to survive until the environment turns favourable. All these are attributes of self awareness, which every living organism has. The mechanisms may not be as complex as we observe in mammals, reptiles, birds, etc but it is the same influence of self-awareness and ultimate objectives of self-preservation.

okeyxyz:

Of course yes!! A virus is self aware to know when an environment is favorable for it's survival. If environment is good, then it feeds, grows and propagates(replicates itself to produce new generations). A virus can sense adverse environment that leads it to adaptive behaviours like forming cysts(goes into hibernation) in order to survive until the environment turns favourable. All these are attributes of self awareness, which every living organism has. The mechanisms may not be as complex as we observe in mammals, reptiles, birds, etc but it is the same influence of self-awareness and ultimate objectives of self-preservation.

Not what I had expected, but great answer.
So I guess I should have added to the questions whether a virus is sentient.
Is it?

okeyxyz:

Proof?? Really?? I laugh in dothraki

There's no such thing as artificial consciousness. You rush too quickly and naively to declare the above. The only proof here is your lack of understanding of the world of computing and programming. What the robot in the OP does is simply captures data, identifies/determines patterns in the data and organizes such data to simulate learning(it's actually a trick in it's algorithm, rather than actual learning). Like I said before, there's no such thing as artificial or computer borne consciousness. Consciousness entails self-awareness, self-identity, self-determination(eg: ambition) and self-preservation. How can a computer be any of these. Does this program ever ask itself why it is doing what it is doing? It can't because it is not self-conscious. A conscious entity would be aware that it acts in certain ways either out of pleasure, or the will to survive or dominate in it's environment, etc, in other words self-interest. So what is the self-interest of this program? None!! It's just a robot, just processing what it's programmed to process in order to simulate learning.

Honestly as soon as I read Plaettons comment, I was overcome by a deep sense of shame on his behalf.

I can only hope that he will be well disposed to have honest introspective review of his take on this one, unfettered by the cog of pride or ego.

I dont know what else to say.

okeyxyz:

Proof?? Really?? I laugh in dothraki

There's no such thing as artificial consciousness. You rush too quickly and naively to declare the above. The only proof here is your lack of understanding of the world of computing and programming. What the robot in the OP does is simply captures data, identifies/determines patterns in the data and organizes such data to simulate learning(it's actually a trick in it's algorithm, rather than actual learning). Like I said before, there's no such thing as artificial or computer borne consciousness. Consciousness entails self-awareness, self-identity, self-determination(eg: ambition) and self-preservation. How can a computer be any of these. Does this program ever ask itself why it is doing what it is doing? It can't because it is not self-conscious. A conscious entity would be aware that it acts in certain ways either out of pleasure, or the will to survive or dominate in it's environment, etc, in other words self-interest. So what is the self-interest of this program? None!! It's just a robot, just processing what it's programmed to process in order to simulate learning.

My dear friend,
It is not a matter of whether this particular robot is fully conscious or not, or meets our criterias or not.
No.
It is about " proof of concept".

Consciousness entails this , entails that, and entails that.
Sure.
The question is about the possibility of an artificial construct having all the above attributes in the future.
And I can you that, you sir, are in no position to say what is scientifically or technologically possible today, or in the near or distant future.

In view of how far humanity has come in just over the past 200yrs, I would urge you , sir, to refrain from making absolute statements about what is possible and what is not possible.

More so, I find it particularly hilarious that people who engage in all sorts of magical thinking(religion) would turn around to make absolute statements about what is scientifically possible and what is not.
That is just laughable.
On what grounds do you make the absolute assertion that there is no such thing as artificial consciousness?

You statement would be a bit palatable if you had added the word "Yet" at the end.

Back in the early 1900s, the head of the U.S patent office recommended that the patent office be closed because , according to him , and I quote,

" Everything that needs to be invented has already been invented."

Can you see how wrong he was 100yrs ago?

If you are following developments in patent applications, you would realize that , technologically, we are still in the dark ages compared to what is in the future.

What you call consciousness, self-awareness, sentience, intelligence, etc are simply unique frequencies in the electromagnetic spectrum.
Biological species reach these various stages when the electrical activity in their brains or neural networks reach a unique mathematical threshold of oscillation.

In other words, my friend, your thoughts can be hacked. The technology and the patents currently exists.

I dont know if you have bothered to notice that computers have tended to perform more complex task with the increase in processor speeds.
Have you?

Now, what is the fasted computing speed currently?
Now multiply that by , say, 100 fold.
Now, again, what is the maximum processing speed for a processor?
As afar as we know, infinity.

If computing power continues to increase exponentially for infinity, there would definitely reach a threshold point where it's frequency would attain the frequency threshold of thoughts, consciousness, and self-awareness.
That is almost as certain as the sun sun coming up tomorrow.

" To understand the Universe, you simply need to understand Frequency, all is Frequency" -- Nicholi Telsa

Deep Sight:

Honestly as soon as I read Plaettons comment, I was overcome by a deep sense of shame on his behalf.

I can only hope that he will be well disposed to have honest introspective review of his take on this one, unfettered by the cog of pride or ego.

I dont know what else to say.

Still begging you to come back to Earth.

Offer your own viewpoint for analysis and debate rather than snipping.

I think that is what they call trolling.
Abi?

plaetton:

Still begging you to come back to Earth.

Offer your own viewpoint for analysis and debate rather than snipping.

I think that is what they call trolling.
Abi?

Hmmm. So robots are self conscious? Or even conscious?

Ol boy think this one well wella wellest before you become dafter than the religious folk you so abhor.

plaetton:

My dear friend,
It is not a matter of whether this particular robot is fully conscious or not, or meets our criterias or not.
No.
It is about " proof of concept".

Consciousness entails this , entails that, and entails that.
Sure.
The question is about the possibility of an artificial construct having all the above attributes in the future.
And I can you that, you sir, are in no position to say what is scientifically or technologically possible today, or in the near or distant future.

In view of how far humanity has come in just over the past 200yrs, I would urge you , sir, to refrain from making absolute statements about what is possible and what is not possible.

More so, I find it particularly hilarious that people who engage in all sorts of magical thinking(religion) would turn around to make absolute statements about what is scientifically possible and what is not.
That is just laughable.
On what grounds do you make the absolute assertion that there is no such thing as artificial consciousness?

You statement would be a bit palatable if you had added the word "Yet" at the end.

Back in the early 1900s, the head of the U.S patent office recommended that the patent office be closed because , according to him , and I quote,

" Everything that needs to be invented has already been invented."

Can you see how wrong he was 100yrs ago?

If you are following developments in patent applications, you would realize that , technologically, we are still in the dark ages compared to what is in the future.

What you call consciousness, self-awareness, sentience, intelligence, etc are simply unique frequencies in the electromagnetic spectrum.
Biological species reach these various stages when the electrical activity in their brains or neural networks reach a unique mathematical threshold of oscillation.

In other words, my friend, your thoughts can be hacked. The technology and the patents currently exists.

I dont know if you have bothered to notice that computers have tended to perform more complex task with the increase in processor speeds.
Have you?

Now, what is the fasted computing speed currently?
Now multiply that by , say, 100 fold.
Now, again, what is the maximum processing speed for a processor?
As afar as we know, infinity.

If computing power continues to increase exponentially for infinity, there would definitely reach a threshold point where it's frequency would attain the frequency threshold of thoughts, consciousness, and self-awareness.
That is almost as certain as the sun sun coming up tomorrow.

" To understand the Universe, you simply need to understand Frequency, all is Frequency" -- Nicholi Telsa

Nobel prize for Grand Stupidity.

So all I can say is that there is no difference between religious stupidity and atheistic stupidity. Plaetton, you fall hand big time.

I won't even bother entering a detailed debate on this one

No offense mate, if you think robots experience consciousness, you are prolly on cocaine

Deep Sight:

Hmmm. So robots are self conscious? Or even conscious?

Ol boy think this one well wella wellest before you become dafter than the religious folk you so abhor.

You have started again misquoting and misrepresenting my views.

I am not concerned with whether today's robots are self-conscious or not.
My point (and please don't make me keep repeating it) is that the concept and the technological possibility is there.

In fact, only a deeply dogmatic and religiously infused magical thinker would not see it coming.

Deep Sight:
So all I can say is that there is no difference between religious stupidity and atheistic stupidity. Plaetton, you fall hand big time.

I won't even bother entering a detailed debate on this one

No offense mate, if you think robots experience consciousness, you are prolly on cocaine

I swear, whatever you are drinking in that Alpha Omega galaxy system, your brain waves and thinking pattern have been altered.

You are actually grandstanding.
That is all you are doing.
Regression?
What gives.

Give me your best , and stop childish grandstanding.

Deep Sight:

Nobel prize for Grand Stupidity.

I gladly accept. lol

If I win the grand stupidity award in this religilous section, It would indeed confirm that I am the only sane person standing.

Smh

plaetton:

I swear, whatever you are drinking in that Alpha Omega galaxy system, your brain waves and thinking pattern have been altered.

You are actually grandstanding.
That is all you are doing.
Regression?
What gives.

Give me your best , and stop childish grandstanding.

Ok. So just state it. Do you think a robot can be self conscious or not. Yea or nay. Simple. No long thing.

Think carefully on this question before answering.

It will be the final arbiter of your tractectory in this lifetime.

Deep Sight:

Ok. So just state it. Do you think a robot can be self conscious or not. Yea or nay. Simple. No long thing.

Think carefully on this question before answering.

It will be the final arbiter of your tractectory in this lifetime.

I do not dwell in absolutes.

The answer is yes.
It is well within the realm of possibility.