nateevs: You get this all the time. Most of those who believe Em is not god don't have any reasons. Most just say it's my opinion.



Mate you didn't do all the justice to Em's immaculate spits in Renegade.

Let me enhance it.

Cause see they call me a menace; and if the shoe fits I'll wear it
But if it don't, then y'all'll swallow the truth grin and bear it
Now who's these king of these rude ludicrous lucrative lyrics
Who could inherit the title, put the youth in hysterics
using his music steer it . . sharin his views in *his marriage
But there's a huge interference - they're sayin you shouldn't hear it
Maybe it's hatred I spew, maybe it's food for the spirit
Maybe it's beautiful music I made for you to just cherish
But I'm debated disputed hated and viewed in Americ a

as a motherfuckin drug addict - like you didn't experiment?
Now now, that's when you start to stare at who's in the mirror

and see yourself as a kid again, and you get *embarrased
And I got nothin to do but make you look stupid as parents
You fuckin do-gooders - too bad you couldn't do good at marriage!
(Ha ha!) And do you have any clue what I had to do to get here I don't
think you do so stay tuned and keep your ears glued to the ster eo


* modified pronunciation for ryhme. You have to listen to get it.



Let someone show me any rapper from yore who had such technicality in one verse. Don't just say he's not a rap god, tell us why he's not.

I don't think you guys have looked up most of the songs that I mentioned and actually listened to them (all of them are available on youtube), because if you and coogar listened to those verses, then I don't see why you would keep referring to the Renegade verse and doing all this red and black highlighting and italicizing. Everybody acknowledges that Em's verse on Renegade was classic, but nobody went as far with the over-praise as you guys are doing here, because they know that what he did on that verse isn't something that's unheard of and they know that great verses like that have been done before on songs. Mos Def, Ras Kass, Pun, Rakim etc. already did that kind of stuff. Have you taken the time to listen to their most lyrical songs and then proceeded to highlight in different colors all the rhymes and assonance as you have done here? I don't see the point of this post if you're not going to do that for other rapper's great verses to make actual direct comparisons. Start by highlighting all of the rhymes of Mos Def's verse on "Twice Inna Lifetime" (1998), Nas's verses on "Don't Stop Keep Goin" (a 1995 song with Daz and Kurupt), Killa Sin's rhymes on "Young Godz" (1996), and the lyrical patterns in Big Pun's verses on "Firewater" "Toe to Toe" " Dream Shatterer" "Wishful Thinking", "Verbal Murder 2" "Cross Bronx Expressway" "Hidden Hand" "Super Lyrical" "Parental Discretion" "Brave In the Heart" etc. and then you can make a comparison.

I still don't see why you guys think Eminem is doing something that other rappers haven't already been doing or aren't capable of doing. Yeah, he is one the best in terms of rhyming complexity when he's rapping at his best (but not really one of the best overall in terms of actual music, in my opinion), but you guys make it seem as if he's the best ever and make it seem like there's some enormous gulf between him and other lyrical rappers.

he's trying to delude himself that nas is a better lyricist than eminem. grin cheesy even from his own example, eminem's lyrics easily subdued that of nas in terms of vocab, rhyming & metaphors.

grin grin I was trying to comprehend why he had to put those lyrics.
He should have just left it after his first paragraph.

You guys are high on Eminem's urine .Subdued kor submarine ni.Nas is always straight to the point.You guys you should just check their first and second line out.

Eminem
See I'm a poet to some, a regular modern day Shakespeare
Jesus Christ the King of these Latter Day Saints here

Here we have Eminem bigging himself up as usual.I'm this,i'm that.

Nas
"People fear what they don't understand, hate what they can't conquer
Guess it's just the fury of man

Words of wisdom from Nas and on point.

Only a wise man can see that Nas is much better than Eminem.

Bukato3:



You guys are high on Eminem's urine .Subdued kor submarine ni.Nas is always straight to the point.You guys you should just check their first and second line out.

Eminem
See I'm a poet to some, a regular modern day Shakespeare
Jesus Christ the King of these Latter Day Saints here

Here we have Eminem bigging himself up as usual.I'm this,i'm that.

Nas
"People fear what they don't understand, hate what they can't conquer
Guess it's just the fury of man

Words of wisdom from Nas and on point.

Only a wise man can see that Nas is much better than Eminem.

i didn't know the argument was about 'words of wisdom'
dumbo
this is the same argument tupac fans use : he spoke words of wisdom, when in reality he had average technical ability.

leggo:
i didn't know the argument was about 'words of wisdom'
dumbo

No need for that son. That shows how smart you are.

Bukato3:

No need for that son. That shows how smart you are.

"Only a wise man can see that Nas is
much better than Eminem"
you got what you gave

coogar:

i know this track - i perused the KGR's lyrics & while it's a dopë track with nice delivery & stuff, it lacked the technical brilliance we have been discussing about eminem's lyricism. the multis if any were really limited to 2-syllables.

where's the pen game & the thoughts only hours of ceiling-staring while chain-smoking can produce? i couldn't find any & this is why i said the difference between eminem's lyrics & KGR is akin to an i-phone 5 & a nokia 3210.

Coogar, I wasn't saying that KGR uses as many multi's as Em or some other rappers that came out after him. In fact, I think Nas usually uses more multi's. I only referenced those tracks to show that KGR isn't merely monosyllabic like you were saying in this thread. But KGR's flow is one of the best rap has seen - that's his real strength, not necessarily the number of multi's. Also, some rappers who can put a lot of multi's in their songs can't really flow the way KGR does on a track (when he's actually trying to be lyrical), while making it look effortless. The flow in verses like KGR's on "Know Da Game" and "Wishful Thinking" and many of his verses on the album 4,5,6 have been matched only by very few rappers (Pun and Nas are some examples). There are other "technical" aspects to rapping besides just the number of multis.

PhysicsQED:
I still don't see why you guys think Eminem is doing something that other rappers haven't already been doing or aren't capable of doing. Yeah, he is one the best in terms of rhyming complexity when he's rapping at his best (but not really one of the best overall in terms of actual music, in my opinion), but you guys make it seem as if he's the best ever and make it seem like there's some enormous gulf between him and other lyrical rappers.

The reason I keep on about Em is because I have listened over and over again to everything you talked about and still nothing compares to what Em brings to the game.

Don't get me wrong, Em aside I am a hardcore fan of Rakim, Nas, Big Pun, Mos Def, Redman, DMX, Jadakiss to name a few. To me, these rappers put a lot into their writing and totally understand what technical rap is all about. More so, for me, Jadakiss and Big Pun. I have spent hours in the past arguing with my hommies on why I think Jadakiss' extended syllable rap style is the best in the game. Not because he did it on one track but he did 'consistently' . .

He would begin with a short sentence and the attempt to cram in as many words as possible into the next line in the rhyme scheme. Like lines from Jada's got a gun - Kiss Tha Game Goodbye.



"I got gun with 200 shots"
"I'm the reason you moved your family to a whole new other block".

Don't even bother wearin a vest
Cuz these ain't the kinda slugs that's gon' get lodged in your chest




Or a classic double entendre from DXL Hard White on DMX's 'And then there was X'

Bet you never even felt the heat
til I put the M1 next to your waves and melt the grease



This is not what he did on only a single track. I will fetch lines from every single verse on every single track you find Jada.






Re: Big Pun

I used to call my favourite rapper before Em. In my opinion he took the internal rhymes and multies to a whole new level.


I was the luckiest man on Earth, my wisdom was worth
any purse but had a curse that hurt worse than givin birth
My first verse explains some of the game she was playin
I'm blamin myself cause in my wealth was her pain would haven
Behavin like a money hungry hooker, funny how the money took her



Internal rhyming on a level I had never seen before. Big Pun was dope. Not just that though, he had a unique style where he always began a new line with the last rhyme but always went on to a new rhyme scheme in that new line. . . . consistently.

For instance.


I was the luckiest man on Earth, my wisdom was worth
any purse but had a curse that hurt worse than givin birth
My first verse explains some of the game she was playin#


The first words of the last line flows with the rhyme scheme. . and then he moves to a new one in that same line.


My first verse explains some of the game she was playin
I'm blamin myself cause in my wealth was her pain would haven
Behavin like a money hungry hooker, funny how the money took her


First word of last line in the rhyme scheme and then moves on to a new rhyme scheme.


Behavin like a money hungry hooker, funny how the money took her
from a average honey to a stunning looker


And he continues all through the track. Consistently.
To me, that was a revolution.




What's my point? I study styles and I can analyse for hours how Rappers put their art together and the relative styles they use sparsely and consistently. Those up for consideration as rap gods are those who do what they do 'consistently'. I respect that you know what you are talking about but even as consistent as those guys we've mentioned might be, no single one is consistent in diverse styles.

This is where Em rises above the lot. Em is the only rapper alive that modified and redefined styles album after album and managed to stay relevant.

KGR is largely monosyllabic. There's tons of materials to verify this. Even as reverenced as Pun is in my eyes, he is also largely mono-syllabic. I don't pick one track to show you how Em destroys the mic, it's there on youtube. Em takes a rhyme scheme and follows through for 16 bars with heavily laden multies and internal rhymes. I showed you last week how Em redefines standards by rhyming with the uncoventional.

Me? I'm a product of Rakim,
Lakim Shabazz, 2Pac N.W.A,
Cube, Hey Doc, Ren Yella, Eazy, thank you they got slim


You can see it yourself. There's no need to begin analysing. I am still waiting for a just one rap line from someone else who is astutely technical to find all the rhymes in those words.

PhysicsQED:
Coogar, I wasn't saying that KGR uses as many multi's as Em or some other rappers that came out after him. In fact, I think Nas usually uses more multi's. I only referenced those tracks to show that KGR isn't merely monosyllabic like you were saying in this thread. But KGR's flow is one of the best rap has seen - that's his real strength, not necessarily the number of multi's. Also, some rappers who can put a lot of multi's in their songs can't really flow the way KGR does on a track (when he's actually trying to be lyrical), while making it look effortless. The flow in verses like KGR's on "Know Da Game" and "Wishful Thinking" and many of his verses on the album 4,5,6 have been matched only by very few rappers (Pun and Nas are some examples). There are other "technical" aspects to rapping besides just the number of multis.

if KGR isn't using as many multis as eminem then why are we even comparing them? I have saluted KGR & the other old school rappers for paving the way but you cannot compare the lyricism of eminem to whatever was written in the 90s. it's incomparable & this is what i have been telling you.

this is why rakim said if eminem was black, he would be standing next to muhammad ali & that's the truth. game recognises game. rakim knows eminem's pen game has no peers. flow, delivery, multis, metaphors, humour & vocab - eminem's got it all.

Nateevs, I disagree completely with the idea that Pun's rapping was "largely mono-syllabic," and you even picked a weaker track of Pun's to analyze and not any of the one's I mentioned, which is surprising, but if you really like the lyricism in that track, then of course I'll respect your opinion.

I guess I'll just have to disagree with both you and coogar. We're obviously looking at this from different angles. I think I'll just say what I said to coogar earlier - multisyllabic rhyming is not the be-all and end-all of lyricism in rap. There are other aspects which you guys are seriously downplaying when making comparisons.

By the way, have you guys listened to any of Earl Sweatshirt's stuff? He's a newer rapper (came out in 2010), so you might not have heard his stuff (but probably already heard of the group he's with).

If complex rhyming structure in verses are your thing, he's pretty much leading all of rap (including Eminem) in that stuff right now - he combines wordplay and frequent double or triple entendres (a lot of the multiple meanings in his lyrics aren't obvious on the first listen - many of the meanings I didn't catch at all until I went to rapgenius) with practically constant multisyllabic rhyming. I can recommend some songs to check out if you're not already familiar with his stuff to see what I'm talking about as far as rhyming complexity. I don't consider him the best (new) rapper out right now or anything - I think there's more to be being the best than just complexity/technicalness or how many syllables they rhyme. A rapper's delivery (the way their rhymes are said), creativity (subject matter-wise), and how vivid or unique their diction/words are are other factors for me. But for somebody like you or coogar who focus mostly/exclusively on the multisyllabic rhyming aspects of lyricism in rap songs, he'll probably seem like the best thing you've heard since Eminem. However, I'm looking more at Kendrick Lamar as the next Nas of rap and I'm more interested in what Lamar drops next than I am in Sweatshirt's next stuff (although his last album was good) or Em's next project.

For me, there are other aspects of a rapper's style that can put them in contention for the top spots besides just complex rhyming patterns. For example many of Chino XL's verses are lyrically more complex than many of Biggie's in terms of both rhyming patterns and wordplay, but I don't consider Chino XL even close to a "top ten" rapper, and I rate Biggie higher than Chino XL because Biggie's delivery, flow and versatility on tracks are some of the best ever seen in rap in the short time he was out - the same goes for Big L. As another example of what I'm talking about, Nas isn't a battle rapper, but more "poetic" sounding in terms of rapping style, so I don't expect to see Canibus or Eminem types of technical rhyming in his verses usually. But Nas is better at what he usually does (that poetic street rap style a lot of rappers from the 90s brought to rap after Rakim and Kool G. Rap came out) than pretty much anyone. What Nas does with his subject matter and style on songs like "Street's Disciple", "One Mic", "Memory Lane" "N.Y. State of Mind" or "Deja Vu" (a classic unreleased track) pretty much no one has equaled yet in rap (I don't want to sound like a Nas stan here, because I'm actually not - but that's just how I see it.)

coogar:

if KGR isn't using as many multis as eminem then why are we even comparing them? I have saluted KGR & the other old school rappers for paving the way but you cannot compare the lyricism of eminem to whatever was written in the 90s. it's incomparable & this is what i have been telling you.

this is why rakim said if eminem was black, he would be standing next to muhammad ali & that's the truth. game recognises game. rakim knows eminem's pen game has no peers. flow, delivery, multis, metaphors, humour & vocab - eminem's got it all.

lol, I don't think the lyricism can't be compared at all. I could easily compare the lyrics in Nas's "Deja Vu" (an unreleased mid-90s track) with Eminem's best stuff (although I would have to compare different styles of rap and different subject matter, so the comparison wouldn't necessarily be 1-to-1) and it would be on par or better.

PhysicsQED:
multisyllabic rhyming is not the be-all and end-all of lyricism in rap. There are other aspects which you guys are seriously downplaying when making comparisons.

it's the essence of lyricism.
a polysyllabic rhymer has his work cut out for him cos once he starts with a rhyme scheme, he must follow it through with similar words & make sense or punchline with it. do you know how difficult that is?

go & listen to legacy, any songwriter would tell you it's the most difficult aspect of writing. looking for words that fit & making sense with it. if not, anybody should be able to rap. i mean, i can just pick up a book & get a mic & speak fast.

PhysicsQED:
lol, I don't think the lyricism can't be compared at all. I could easily compare the lyrics in Nas's "Deja Vu" (an unreleased track that was made before Illmatic) with Eminem's best stuff (although I would have to compare different styles of rap and different subject matter, so the comparison wouldn't necessarily be 1-to-1.)

bring nas' best work ever in lyricism & let's compare it to eminem's stay wide awake.


Soon as my flow starts
I compose art like the ghost of Mozart
Even though they all say that they're real
I know that most aren't
Boy you think you're clever don't ya
Girl you think you're so smart

flow starts = pose art = ghost of = mozart = most aren't = don't ya = so smart.

7 multis in 2 bars.

coogar:

it's the essence of lyricism.
a polysyllabic rhymes has his work cut out for him cos once he starts with a rhyme scheme, he must follow it through with similar words & make sense or punchline with it. do you know how difficult that is?

go & listen to legacy, any songwriter would tell you it's the most difficult aspect of writing. looking for words that fit & making sense with it. if not, anybody should be able to rap. i mean, i can just pick up a book & get a mic & speak fast.




bring nas' best work ever in lyricism & let's compare it to eminem's stay wide awake.

Coogar, there's something that you're missing here completely - it's not just about the polysyllabic rhyming. Listen to the track I mentioned earlier, "Don't Stop Keep Goin" by Daz, Kurupt and Nas:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLe-rlSRB4Q

The way Nas flows on the song has a huge effect on how his verses sound in the song.

Likewise on Rakim's "Follow the Leader", at a certain point early on in the third verse, he changes up his flow and tempo and it has a huge effect on how the lines sound:

"A furified freestyle - lyrics of fury
My third eye make me shine like jewelry
You're just a rent-a-rapper, your rhymes are minute-maid
I'll be here when it fade, I'll watch you flip like a renegade"


He does it again in another part of the same verse

"The R's a rolling stone, so I'm rolling
Directions told then, the rhymes are stolen
Stop buggin' a brother said dig him, I never dug him
He couldn't follow the leader long enough so I drug him
Into danger zone he should arrange his own
Face it, it's basic, erase or change your tone"

In the part that I put in bold, there's a change in how he says the rhymes that has a huge effect on how it sounds.

Flow & delivery are huge parts of rap - some rappers sometimes sound like they're just talking rather than rapping (such as Jeru the Damaja or Guru (DJ Premier's longtime collaborator) - although both of these guys made several really good songs regardless of this), because they usually have a weak or (deliberately) slow flow, and some of their rhymes have much less of an impact because of that.

Coogar, I don't consider "Stay Wide Awake" one of Em's best by any means. In fact, both the song itself and lyrics in the song are kind of weak. Em's flow on the song is weak and the lyrics themselves are just average. I don't know what you're seeing there.

Even the new(er) rapper I mentioned in my last post above - Earl Sweatshirt - made a ('shock'-rap) song about the same revolting subject matter (which isn't something that Nas would ever rap about anyway), called "epaR," off his debut album, and that song is better than Stay Wide Awake both as a song and in terms of lyrics.

I don't really see the point of comparing a weak Eminem song to Nas's best stuff, but I guess I could compare probably the only thing I could find from Nas that has a little bit of screwed up subject matter: his verse on the song "Bravehearted" from the Bravehearts album. Nas's verse on that song is pretty good and I think it's better than any of Em's verses in Stay Wide Awake, but that's probably because I'm taking flow and delivery into account, which I don't think you are/would, if you really consider Stay Wide Awake a great song.

PhysicsQED: Coogar, I don't consider "Stay Wide Awake" one of Em's best by any means. In fact, both the song itself and lyrics in the song are kind of weak. Em's flow on the song is weak and the lyrics themselves are just average. I don't know what you're seeing there.

Even the new(er) rapper I mentioned in my last post above - Earl Sweatshirt - made a ('shock'-rap) song about the same revolting subject matter (which isn't something that Nas would ever rap about anyway), called "epaR," off his debut album, and that song is better than Stay Wide Awake both as a song and in terms of lyrics.

I don't really see the point of comparing a weak Eminem song to Nas's best stuff, but I guess I could compare probably the only thing I could find from Nas that has a little bit of screwed up subject matter: his verse on the song "Bravehearted" from the Bravehearts album. Nas's verse on that song is pretty good and I think it's better than any of Em's verses in Stay Wide Awake, but that's probably because I'm taking flow and delivery into account, which I don't think you are/would, if you really consider Stay Wide Awake a great song.

stay wide awake is weak? a song that was generally accepted by hip-hop fans worldwide as the best use of eminem's pen game? the verse i quoted was just a hook - it's not part of his verses. trust me, it's the best technical rap song ever waxed on record.

the flow on that song(ignore the rhymes) Is the best ever. it subdues anything i have heard from the rap pioneers. just type "2nd verse of stay wide awake" on google & see what the rap community has to say about it.

see how this dude described the song....

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/not-the-biggest-fan-in-general-but-eminem-on-stay-wide-awake-ohmy.54111/#post-1976595


my fav. joint on Relapse next to Underground. It's one of the many reasons why this nikka is my Fav. Rapper next to Nas.

I don't think a lot of nikkas understand the technicality of that 2nd verse (2:08-2:58). The man rhymed every fukking thing in that verse with a mean flow and was going back n forth between two different pov's "the victim" and "the stalker" while staying on point with the story and dialogue. nikka who else can do that on the same level?

Incredible

I'll put this song up against any popular MC's out now including my nikka Nas and none of em can hold a candle to the lyricism and flow Em had on display. The nikka completely blacked the fukk out on some "they think i fell off huh" type shyt.

disgusting

PhysicsQED:
I guess I'll just have to disagree with both you and coogar. We're obviously looking at this from different angles. I'll think I'll just say what I said to coogar earlier - multisyllabic rhyming is not the be-all and end-all of lyricism in rap. There are other aspects which you guys are seriously downplaying when making comparisons.

It is. That's the essence of rap. It's basis of Rap. The art of rhyming. And then evolved into the art of content, flow and technical delivery. (Take content only and no one tops the likes of KRS One, Rakim, Pac, Nas. We can close up and all go home.)

Time went on and MCs try to undo one another. Style and delivery thereafter became the yardstick. The more complex the technical delivery, the harder to compose. And it follows that the harder to compose the more in-depth the rapper thinks and works and hence, in my opinion, the more astute the rapper is, as long as it isn't at the expense of rich lyrical content. (Shigidi migidi figidi like Idris Abdul Kareem )



You can make a case for as many rappers as you want. I for one love Erick Sermon. No one in the game also compares in my eyes to Style P and the way his rap is structured. However this is not a discussion about those we like and their style but how their style out-does one another and how seemingly difficult it might be to do what they do. As much as I have respect for many MCs, no one does it like Em. No one holds a rhyme scheme longer than Em and then do it over and over again with unconventional rhyming patterns.

There's no use posting 2-line multies from rap artist who don't remember to do it for the next five tracks.

coogar:

stay wide awake is weak? a song that was generally accepted by hip-hop fans worldwide as the best use of eminem's pen game? the verse i quoted was just a hook - it's not part of his verses. trust me, it's the best technical rap song ever waxed on record.

the flow on that song(ignore the rhymes) Is the best ever. it subdues anything i have heard from the rap pioneers. just type "2nd verse of stay wide awake" on google & see what the rap community has to say about it.

It's a weak song (music-wise) and his flow on it is weak - maybe that's because of how he was trying to fit all those multi's to that particular beat?

He raps the lyrics too slow and there are way too many pauses in the verses on that song for me to consider it lyrically impressive.

PhysicsQED:
It's a weak song (music-wise) and his flow on it is weak - maybe that's because of how he was trying to fit all those multi's to that particular beat?

He raps the lyrics too slow and there are way too many pauses in the verses on that song for me to consider it lyrically impressive.

that's eminem's best flow ever - especially that 2nd verse. the verse all through was symmetrical. he was rhyming a whole sentence with the other at a point - i have never seen such wizardry in lyricism. 1000 nasir jones cannot come up with such.

nateevs:


It is. That's the essence of rap. It's basis of Rap. The art of rhyming. And then evolved into the art of content, flow and technical delivery. (Take content only and no one tops the likes of KRS One, Rakim, Pac, Nas. We can close up and all go home.)

Time went on and MCs try to undo one another. Style and delivery thereafter became the yardstick. The more complex the technical delivery, the harder to compose. And it follows that the harder to compose the more in-depth the rapper thinks and works and hence, in my opinion, the more astute the rapper is, as long as it isn't at the expense of rich lyrical content. (Shigidi migidi figidi like Idris Abdul Kareem )



You can make a case for as many rappers as you want. I for one love Erick Sermon. No one in the game also compares in my eyes to Style P and the way his rap is structured. However this is not a discussion about those we like and their style but how their style out-does one another and how seemingly difficult it might be to do what they do. As much as I have respect for many MCs, no one does it like Em. No one holds a rhyme scheme longer than Em and then do it over and over again with unconventional rhyming patterns.

There's no use posting 2-line multies from rap artist who don't remember to do it for the next five tracks.

It's like you're reading what I'm writing, but not really taking it in. I think that you pretty much misunderstood my post if you're bringing up Erick Sermon or Styles P in this discussion. Anyway, to keep it short and simple (I don't think there's a point to a detailed response, since it seems we're just inclined to disagree about this stuff), I don't really buy the "technical" arguments/claims you guys are making because they seem to be ignoring a lot of things.

coogar:

that's eminem's best flow ever - especially that 2nd verse. the verse all through was symmetrical. he was rhyming a whole sentence with the other at a point - i have never seen such wizardry in lyricism. 1000 nasir jones cannot come up with such.

Well, we might have different understandings of what "flow" really is, so that might be part of why we couldn't see eye to eye on this stuff. Not only do I not think it's his best flow ever on a song, I don't think his flow on that song is even good.

I respect your opinion on the song, but I don't agree with it - we're clearly just listening to the music differently.

PhysicsQED:

It's like you're reading what I'm writing, but not really taking it in. I think that you pretty much misunderstood my post if you're bringing up Erick Sermon or Styles P in this discussion. Anyway, to keep it short and simple (I don't think there's a point to a detailed response, since it seems we're just inclined to disagree about this stuff), I don't really buy the "technical" arguments/claims you guys are making because they seem to be ignoring a lot of things.

I am open to your points. What do you think my points are ignoring?

PhysicsQED:

Well, we might have different understandings of what "flow" really is, so that might be part of why we couldn't see eye to eye on this stuff. Not only do I not think it's his best flow ever on a song, I don't think his flow on that song is even good.

I respect your opinion on the song, but I don't agree with it - we're clearly just listening to the music differently.

we can always agree to disagree - i am fine with that. you are a good sport.

nateevs:


I am open to your points. What do you think my points are ignoring?

Well, I don't think I can say much more than I've already said as far as what my views are about the other aspects of lyricism, so we should probably just let the issue rest. It's been an interesting discussion though.

PhysicsQED:

Well, I don't think I can say much more than I've already said as far as what my views are about the other aspects of lyricism, so we should probably just let the issue rest. It's been an interesting discussion though.

Interesting indeed.

I am enjoying ur debates

Am nt an expert on rap analysis but I know good rap when I hear one.

"You never over" had classic rhymes
"stan" was Eminem telling a story with every word in place, most rappers can't do this
"rap God" was epic, a complete and flawless rap song- it had everything u expect from a rapper and more

Hoodrat: 2 pac, Jay-z, Wale Rakim, Nas are the best. Rap is purely african thing eminem na impersonator.

Wale? That dude sold out.

coogar:

you are talking nonsense as usual - if you cannot understand the technicality of lyricism we are discussing here then you have no rights to even contribute. i have seen all the lyrics physicsQED asked me to see & norm of them even compares to what eminem does when freestyling, never mind his pen game.

Everytime i calmn down and think to myself ''ok let me give this mmlp2 a chance and hear what everyone is raving about'' i get disappointed. I recently heard snippets of the song legacy from that album and my thoughts on it: ''commerciality on steroids'' im done thinking there could something on this album, that's it, eminem is a sell-out. If u want to hear real rap albums released in the past 12 months i'd recommend 1) sage francis - copper gone 2) blueprint - respect the architect. Stop supporting this mainstream garbage that is passed off as quality hip hop like 50 cent, eminem etc...

RSAMAN:

Everytime i calmn down and think to myself ''ok let me give this mmlp2 a chance and hear what everyone is raving about'' i get disappointed. I recently heard snippets of the song legacy from that album and my thoughts on it: ''commerciality on steroids'' im done thinking there could something on this album, that's it, eminem is a sell-out. If u want to hear real rap albums released in the past 12 months i'd recommend 1) sage francis - copper gone 2) blueprint - respect the architect. Stop supporting this mainstream garbage that is passed off as quality hip hop like 50 cent, eminem etc...

my suggestion: take the ice bucket challenge. dry your face, get good earphones & listen to "legacy" again.

thank me later!

coogar:

my suggestion: take the ice bucket challenge. dry your face, get good earphones & listen to "legacy" again.

thank me later!

i might do what u suggest if i get around to it but first i must get the new ''Opeth'' album, the new ''Epica'' album, the box set of 10 ''dream theater'' studio albums realesed this past july, and i also have to get the complete discographies of the following bands and artists:
Foo Fighters
Omnium Gatherum
Deafheaven
Between The Buried And Me
Symphony X
Blackalicious
Cunninlyguists
People Under The Stairs
Dilated Peoples
Atsmosphere

A total of 122 albums between them.
And i still have alot of classical music to go through, about 750cds.
After that maybe i might just give legacy a try, just maybe. Because i might want to explore more bands and artists.

Do you listen to any other kind of music except rap? I listen to a wide variety of music for inspiration, from rock to jazz to classical.

...Yeah!...To me, Eminem is simply the best....
I love Lecrae too....He s also the gospel rap god...Perfecto!!!

.

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